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3:00 PM
^ wrong
 
^ wrong
 
Wes
update: the prune "tree" is catching up on the lemon "tree"
respectively of about 3 and 5 cm :B
 
Relativism is the idea that views are relative to differences in perception and consideration. There is no universal, objective truth according to relativism; rather each point of view has its own truth.The major categories of relativism vary in their degree of scope and controversy. Moral relativism encompasses the differences in moral judgments among people and cultures.Truth relativism is the doctrine that there are no absolute truths, i.e., that truth is always relative to some particular frame of reference, such as a language or a culture (cultural relativism). Descriptive relativism seeks...
 
@tereško ugh.. I did not mean it it that sense
 
ah, so you were wrong AND bad at expressing yourself
 
Wes
3:01 PM
lol
 
no, it's just you were wrong AND bad at understanding yourself
(:
I can do this all day long
 
wtf is happening here?
 
nothing ... @AlmaDo is just convinced that "no you .." is an adequate comeback
 
@mega6382 this
 
Is there any flag to pass to $ php in the terminal to dump opcodes native? :)
 
3:03 PM
@tereško I just convinced you that I did any comeback which in fact I was not even attempting
 
@AlmaDo That basically just sounded like this to me:
> Zeno is wrong in saying that there is no part of the millet that does not make a sound: for there is no reason why any such part should not in any length of time fail to move the air that the whole bushel moves in falling. In fact it does not of itself move even such a quantity of the air as it would move if this part were by itself: for no part even exists otherwise than potentially.
in short: very vague
 
in fact: I didn't even care (:
if someone wants to feel a "winner" in some ephemeral debate in a random conversation at a whim of a moment - let them have it I say (:
now, to more important and pressing matters: I'm trying to get a good office chair as I don't want to use kitchen ones anymore for sitting at my working desk .. recommendations? Killed 1-2 hours on Amazon already..
 
@tereško hmmm, interesting. What is it called, "when you believe everything matters, but still can't manage to give a shit"?
 
3:20 PM
laravel fanboys be like qr.ae/TUNdPb
I believe the essays I wrote on "A Book" in the 2nd grade were better than this :P
 
@MadaraUchiha That the new house in Hogwarts?
That's probably me failling at properly compiling php but I get a Undefined constant ZLIB_ENCODING_GZIP in /http-server/src/Middleware/CompressionMiddleware with PHP 7.4.0-dev (cli). I added no options to ./configure, is there some kind of bare minimal required options for stuff to actually work? Built just now after fetching latest php-src.
 
@Wes Bikes are things that people can ride. urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=the%20village%20bike
 
Wes
lol
 
@mega6382 one of the answer was perfect: "laravel is like 18 years old developer" ... meaning: incompetent and loud
(I'm paraphrasing)
 
oh lord - just watched your video.
 
Wes
3:32 PM
the carbonara one?
 
@GabrielCaruso with opcache: php.net/manual/en/…
 
@Wes that's no way for someone to talk about their own grandmother.
 
Wes
lol
 
@Wes whats that?
 
Wes
it's an italian way of saying. "if my grandmother had wheels she would be a bike" means that "what you are saying is as wrong as calling my grandmother a bike if only she had wheels" :B
 
3:38 PM
@Wes I don't think we have a polite version of that, only: urbandictionary.com/…
 
@Wes lol
 
@GabrielCaruso The easiest (and lowest quality) way is to use phpdbg -p* file.php (where * can also be a function or method name)
 
Wes
@Danack lol yeah that works :B
 
Hi devs. Anyone knows how to save an ADOdb Active Record without the need of setting the value of the "NOT NULL DEFAULT <something>" fields?
 
pgadmin4 Question: How do I add a remote db connection, which requires a VPN?
 
3:49 PM
If you don't set the values of these fields, the ADOdb Active Record tries to insert null in a not null field, even if the field has a default value.
 
@Trowski or amphp's people, Would it be pertinent to add ext-zlib to http-server's composer.json requires? It seems to be a hard requirement. It's possible everyone always configures with --with-zlib but it would make it more explicit by preventing composer commands on platform that somehow don't have it?
 
Who here likes Ex machina? Cause I recently watched it, and I think it sucks in every way. change my mind.
 
4:05 PM
@Lawrence I'd suggest asking the people behind that project - github.com/ADOdb/ADOdb I doubt anyone here has ever used that library.
Though possibly ADODB_FORCE_IGNORE may be of interest
 
lol- doing some refactoring of some old code and found where a result set in a query needed to be looped through twice. Code was querying the database twice for each iteration instead of resetting the pointer for the array to zero to loop through again. Love finding silly things like that to fix.
@mega6382 I've not watched it yet. Watched many reviews on it. So one of your top 5 now, huh?
 
4:22 PM
@pmmaga @NikiC Thanks :)
 
@StatikStasis what do you mean? I just said it sucks :P
 
@mega6382 I know. =)
 
then how will it be in my top 5?
 
Was kidding.
 
yeah, thought so :P
 
4:29 PM
!!wiki Kidding
 
Kidding is a common synonym for joking. Kidding may also refer to: == People == Chih-Yen Hsu, a Taiwanese director who works under the name Kidding Hsu == Film == Kidding (2012 film), an American short film directed by Ruiqing Ma == Television == Kidding (TV series), a 2018 American TV series directed by Michel Gondry starring Jim Carrey == Music == Kidding/Gagging, a 7" single by the Berlin electronic artist Al.X.E == See also == Just Kidding (disambiguation) No Kidding (disambiguation)...
 
:D
@Wes If you really were becoming like @tereško then you'd have liked captain marvel punching that old lady :P
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier It's not a hard requirement because compression can be disabled. Looks like we need to add a check for ext-zlib before enabling it.
 
@mega6382 should I flag you for defamation?
 
hahaha <3
 
4:31 PM
I am serious
 
Wes
[oh you.jpg]
 
@tereško then my apologies, dear, honorable sir. :)
 
too late, and insincere
 
@tereško since when are you offended when people say you're an ass?
 
@FlorianMargaine since he implied that I like to watch old people being beaten up .. and before he stated that I am a sociopath
 
4:35 PM
you don't?
ah, I see
a sociopath wouldn't like that, he just wouldn't care
 
@tereško how dare you? I am never insincere
@tereško I said just bit of a sociopath.
 
@Trowski somewhere adound here? github.com/amphp/http-server/blob/…
something like if options is null new options + check if ext-zlib is defined
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I was thinking in the Options constructor to select a default and then throw in Options::withCompression if ext-zlib isn't installed.
 
@Trowski Imho not good to make the default env dependent
If there is no zlib it should error, but not silently disable
Because more likely than not you want to solve this by installing zlib, not the other way around
 
@NikiC Yeah, you're probably right. Probably better to leave it as it is and improve the error message.
 
4:46 PM
@tereško So, do you forgive me?(/me says innocently with googly eyes)
 
I miss Chris :(
 
What happened to Chris?
 
His account still seems active, but he never responds
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier So on second thought, add a check here for ext-zlib and write an error to the log if it's not available and skip adding the middleware.
At least then the server will work, but the user will see the error.
 
@NikiC He got a new job, and they've probably locked him in the basement with no internet connection.
 
4:48 PM
@Fabor I am still alive
fyi
 
@Fabor quick, mention something about tea to summon him?
 
:-P
 
@Trowski sounds good
can I try?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Please :-D
 
4:49 PM
@DaveRandom I'll need a picture next to today's paper to be sure.
 
@DaveRandom why you no reply then?
 
@mega6382 He's pretending to be working, obviously
 
yeah, I'm watching
 
You can see by that from the fact that he immediately responded when mentioned by name -- no ping!
 
Chris, are you still in France?
 
4:51 PM
@FlorianMargaine Ah, another soul lost to platform.sh?
 
@mega6382 no, UK
 
I have been away from the internet and generally being a functioning adult for a bit, I'm easing myself back in
 
Wes
thank you for the typed properties though guys. really good stuff <3 you are the best @bwoebi @NikiC @JoeWatkins
 
@mega6382 loool
 
Wes
4:56 PM
instastar
 
@DaveRandom there is no such thing as a "functioning adult"
 
It's a sliding scale
 
a functioning meat-popsicle.
 
@Tiffany Human female onesies in the style of a cat -_-
 
5:11 PM
@Danack Thank you, but $ADODB_FORCE_IGNORE is just for autoExecute(), getUpdateSql() and getInsertSql(). Not works with Active Record. It's a ordinary lib, but we need to use it because, you know, legacy.
 
5:24 PM
fractal@osboxes:~/projects/php/nhl$ php bin/server.php
[2018-09-18 17:09:38] server.error: The zlib extension is not enabled. Either activate the zlib extension or disable compression in the server's options. [] []
@Trowski how's that for an error message?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Looks good.
 
Ok. I don't think that could be tested easily, I'm not quite sure how to orchestrate an extension being present or not through phpunit, but I rebuilt with and without zlib and log happen correctly afaict
 
user10351273
5:51 PM
Hi everyone!!!
 
user10351273
How are you?
 
Working, more or less. You? It seems you just gained the talk in the chats privilege?
 
evenins everyone
I hate legacy javascript :(
 
well, at least there's no webpack in the loop?
 
5:58 PM
!!welcome KellyMorrison
 
Welcome @KellyMorrison, please read the Chat Guidelines
 
there is
 
hey guys
I am new to chat so welcome me
 
of otherwise flowery butterflies
 
... and then people say that I am harsh
 
6:00 PM
yo @tereško :)
so?
 
what is field @mega6382 php or laravel
or both
tell me one can I use vue.js with other languages framework or independent like node.js
 
/me looks around, and sees @Danack is not here, and
/me proceeds to say, we do not talk about laravel here
 
ok sorry about that
 
with that said, yes, you can use vue or whatever frontend library you want independently of what you use for your backend
 
what we say here tell sir
I am learning JavaScript framework vue or node is best which one.
 
6:11 PM
@MohammadSulaiman Whilst you can ask js questions here, and you might find some help regarding them as well, it would still be more beneficial for you to try js room for that.
 
ok don't mind I will do in future sir
 
!!reboot
 
Restarting now! o/
 
\o
 
Hey Danister
 
6:24 PM
o/
 
For the record - the air conditioning system in our office is so broken that I had my first asthma attack in about 10 years, and had to go to the hospital to get an inhaler \o/
Wait no the other one (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
lol
Is it on "arctic"?
 
@PeeHaa No, it's in "why would anyone need oxygen? Also, you guys are good with elevated levels of CO2 and ozone, right?" mode.
 
:P
 
6:40 PM
We've temporarily moved out of the office we're paying for into a spare office that has actually openable windows until they can sort it out...
 
^ recommended video :D
 
Does anyone else ever get tired of PHP always getting labeled as a "web development" tool?
When it can do so much more than web development.
 
I don't get tired of it. Stay in web development, dear language. You are a fish out of water everywhere else.
 
^ that
 
I feel it can compete with Python & Java in everything and anything. I think.
And Python & Java are seen are far more than web development tools. Which is a good thing, I think.
 
6:55 PM
@JuliusAlvarado don't turn into that kind of a fanboy, it never ends.
 
I want PHP7 to have the same reputation.
Well, I am learning Python, and once again I am learning how to do the same things over and over in a different language
Just because Python is the de facto tool for Data engineering/Science
 
php lacks way too much to be used for that
 
I will admit, Python is a SUPER clean language, syntax wise, over PHP7. I only know PHP7.
 
That's just subjective
 
But I can manipulate data in PHP7 the same way as in Python. But it takes countless hours to learn how to do it in Python because it's so different
 
6:58 PM
o/
 
o/
> But I can manipulate data in PHP7 the same way as in Python
I wish
 
Tons of new classes and methods to memorize and what not
 
@JuliusAlvarado How many programming languages do you routinely use?
 
Everything is just a data table. We add fields, transform fields, do calculations to new fields or already existing fields.
PHP7 can do that all.
 
Where is a viable numpy alternative?
Can we do ffi in php?
 
7:00 PM
I just use PHP7 and Node.js
 
Where are all the ML libraries in PHP?
 
and T-SQL. Lots of T-SQL. Not SQL. T-SQL !== SQL
though they're pretty similar, still a few caveats
 
...
You are missing the point :P
 
I don't know numpy. I am a super Python noob
 
@JuliusAlvarado numpy has fairly little to do with python really ^^
 
7:03 PM
@JuliusAlvarado no, it really cant
 
@JuliusAlvarado What are you doing with numpy?
 
@NikiC Was from me. Saying you cannot possible do in php what you python (without a lot of work)
 
@PeeHaa Oooh sorry I lost track of who said what ^^
 
Who are you and what have you done to the real @PeeHaa?
 
:-)
 
7:05 PM
Hi guys ... entering the land of PHP, I hope you don't bite ...
 
Hah, then I feel a bit safe to ask my question.
I've come in to ask about the tag used along with , which is currently being burninated. From this post, I realize that it is called "use operator" stackoverflow.com/questions/10542012/php-namespaces-and-use. However, in many other places, it's referred to as "use statement". What would be a better name for the tag, [use-operator] or [use-statement] or [php-use]?
 
From what I read in numpy.org ... can't a php associative array with mixed complex types (classes as values) do the same thing?
 
or do we even need a different tag for that, given that most of the questions are also tagged ?
 
['hash1': [0: MyCoolClass]]
 
7:07 PM
@BhargavRao That tag does not look worth preserving
 
$numPyNoobVar = ['hash1': [0: MyCoolClass]];
 
Why isn't $f = lambda ($x) $x * $x; a thing yet?
 
$numPyNoobVar['hash1'][0]->someMethod(par1, par2);
 
@BhargavRao It's php. Just delete the questions
 
@BhargavRao PHP uses use for three different uses (ha!)
7
 
7:08 PM
@NikiC Cool, so is it fine if we just drop the [use] tag from the questions containing [php]?
 
@BhargavRao yeah
 
Namespace could be a valuable addition to these posts, I'd still say
 
I have a value, an order number, that is passed in URL ($_GET). On the next page a query to the database occurs where that value is then passed in a prepared statement. If the order number is not found in the database (possibly due to a malicious change in the URL) it outputs that no results are found and execution ends. If order number is found, a form is generated, the order number is assigned to a hidden field and will be passed in the form on submit ($_POST).
 
@PeeHaa sssh, that's plan B. ;)
 
On the form action page there are several queries that occur that use the order number, none of which are prepared statements. I could easily just change these queries to all prepared statements, but I feel prepared statements would
 
7:09 PM
\o/
 
be more resource intensive than is needed and would just take longer to execute. The order number was validated through a prepared statement earlier in execution, that value is then passed in POST and is not able to be changed after it was validated so it should be sanitized for use. Just trying to think whether there is something I am not thinking of or not. Thoughts?
 
@BhargavRao change it to ['use'-the-one-that-php-uses]
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier That would require manual review though. E.g. the second question in that list is stackoverflow.com/questions/52223650/use-statements-in-php-file which is not about namespaces, it's about trait uses.
 
yeah, not really manageable over all questions
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier ok. There are 60 questions stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/use+php+-namespaces, I would need some help to review those.
 
7:10 PM
oh, only 60 eh?
 
@mega6382 More like 3 tags: ['use'-the-one-that-php-uses], ['use'-the-two-that-php-uses] and ['use'-the-three-that-php-uses]
Yep, only 60 of them are there.
 
$oldPoodlerNames = collect($users)
    ->filter(lambda ($user) use ($age) $user->age > 42)
    ->filter(lambda ($user) use ($dog) $user->dog === 'Poodle')
    ->map(lambda ($user) $user->name);
    ->toArray();
 
You want me to look and add to those that should have it, is what I understand?
so that you can remove afterwards
 
Why don't we want lambda syntax?
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier Yep, and remove the [use] tag. (or vote to close them, if they're bad).
 
7:14 PM
Well, why not
 
Awesome, that sounds perfect. I have edited the CW progress to add some guidance about the process and added a link to this convo.
Thanks all for your help!
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier there will also be question where you need to add instead
because of the $foo = function ($a) use ($outer, $params) { .. syntax
 
right, that's the third
use namespace, use traits, use scoping
 
erm, 3 different tags ... I'll leave it to you folks to edit the answer meta.stackoverflow.com/a/374249/4099593.
 
@tereško Meh
And the fate of implicit use?
 
7:19 PM
@DanLugg not compatible with current engine, AFAIK
 
How about expression trees? Retrofitting function ... syntax would surely be more nightmarish than supporting single expression lambda syntax
$e = ReflectionLambda::getExpression(lambda ($x) $x + $x);
 
again - engine limitations
 
Blah
 
what you are looking at would mean a complete engine rewrite
 
I thought the 7.x "rewrite" made this more plausible already?
/cc @NikiC
 
7:29 PM
Depends on what exactly you're looking for
It's the usual story
 
Well, userland exposure of AST APIs never made it in?
 
We all want to have a short closure syntax with implicit use, but nobody agrees on the details
@DanLugg Yeah, the AST is only exposed to userland via an extension
 
Bollocks. I was hoping that RFC section was just dated.
 
tbh I don't really see the use
 
Well, code-as-data. Expression rewriting/transformations and all that.
 
7:32 PM
There are userland parsers that provide that functionality much much better (disclaimer: I wrote one)
 
Oh, I've played with yours
 
The requirements on an AST for language implementation and for code analysis and transformation are very different
E.g. the internal ast does not provide accurate byte-accurate location information. It does not preserve formatting, it does not recover from errors, etc.
 
True, but I'm surprised that you say userland implementations do (and would?) provide better functionality.
 
And it wouldn't make a lot of sense to integrate all that into core, because all of that functionality is very complex and not needed
 
@NikiC Well, byte-accurate location information isn't necessary for expression transformations.
 
7:36 PM
@DanLugg yes, but it's needed for many other things, especially once you want to have editor integration
 
Ah. I wasn't thinking about editor integration; just programmatic transformations at runtime.
->filter(lambda ($user) $user->id === 42)
// into
[
    'clause' => 'WHERE `User`.`id` = :_val_3',
    '_val_3' => 42,
]
 
You need to accurately report errors and to find out what the cursor refers to etc
@DanLugg Ah yes, if it's just at runtime it doesn't matter, right
 
Though, expression byte offsets of errors would be better
 
!!dad
 
What’s the best thing about telling UDP jokes? I don’t have to care if you get them.
 
7:56 PM
... do we have a canonical over "you can't put use in a function"?
 
nn ppl
 
8:42 PM
$stmt = $conn->prepare('SELECT id FROM table1 table2 WHERE id = :id') I'm not able to test yet, i just want to know, is it possible to select two tables?
 
kinda
but you are approaching it wrong
@Susi read this blog.codinghorror.com/a-visual-explanation-of-sql-joins and then rephrase your question
 
@Susi you probably want to look up either 'joining' or using 'union' in queries.
 
8:59 PM
@tereško Tiffany said that you had recommended some good open source CMS.. you mind if I ask as well? :P
 
@Alesana not sure how good it is, but last one I used was Sonata
it has one major issue - the documentation is lagging behind the code
 
Ah I see
It's with Symfony?
Ah I see
It's with Symfony?
 
when you need something, that is not "default" there is a not-insignificant chance to encounter undocumented behavior
@Alesana yes
 
... can't decide on sending a table to client and write table sorting algorithms in js, or add links and reorder everything on the server
 
Thanks! I'll look into it. Really I'm looking for something rather simple, I'm afraid if I don't come up with an alternative soon enough we'll be using wordpress again
 
9:03 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier sort on the server
it will be a lot less pain and a huge chunk of "js tables" also will know how to piggyback on that
 
I was contemplating the messing with browser history to be able to link to a sorted table and... yeah
 
"progressive enhancement" and all that ancient stuff
is it just me, or when tell some new frontend developer the phrase "three layers of web", they first confused and then they looks at it like they have unearthed a forgotten plasma rifle from Atlantis
 
possibly because most things in recent frontend development tend to blur all and every lines between these layers?
 
yeah
 
9:58 PM
@NikiC I'm wondering whether I should revive my old short closure RFC with => as separator token (requiring parens-wrapping in yield and array values without key)...
 
10:11 PM
@bwoebi That seems very reasonable.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:52 PM
I'm addicted to a mobile game...
 
that might be genetic
based on userbase stats for mobile games, there is a high probability, that mobile game addiction is caused by the second X chromosome, @Tiffany :P
 
in my defense, it's a Final Fantasy variant by Square, and it's pretty fucking good
if it had a PC version, I'd probably be playing it
 
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