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6:03 PM
@Andrea Depends if it has arginfo or not, partly. Arginfo uses strings.
If it's just ZPP parsing then they can do whatever.
 
6:16 PM
    $keys = array_keys($params);
    foreach ($keys as $key) {
        // vs
    foreach (array_keys($params) as $key) {
 
Either is fine.
 
is there a recommendation for a standard?
 
Not really. I recommend if you refer to the variable only once and it does not violate your line length rule then I prefer using it directly.
 
@LeviMorrison cheers
 
@Moak why not foreach($params as $key => $value) { ?
 
Wes
6:21 PM
that ^
 
@Code4R7 cuz I'm not using $value
 
Wes
so you are creating a copy of the array just because of that?
 
In that case I'd just unset($value) after the foreach loop, but I'd love to see a benchmark.
 
Wes
you don't need a benchmark because one array of N values is slower to make than zero arrays of N values
 
picked up another chinese light-novel to read :D .. few chapters in, one of the comments suggested a really good alternative title: "Practical applications of the art of swindling"
 
Wes
6:26 PM
you are such a nerd
 
Isn't everybody here a nerd?
 
Wes
@Code4R7 sorry was replying to the wrong person
 
k, actually my question was more intending to be:

$values = function_that_returns_array();
foreach ($values as $value) {
// vs()
foreach (function_that_returns_array() as $value) {
 
Wes
it's not even necessary to unset()
 
I know, but if there are non-nerds here, I need to watch my language ;)
 
6:28 PM
@Moak there is no practical difference
 
cheers @tereško
 
focus on what seems more readable
 
I'd choose "foreach (function_that_returns_array() as $value) {", because of your own argument : you don't use $values.
 
@Code4R7 it depends on how long the function name actually is and how many arguments it has
therefore the "readability" is more important than "omg, there is a variable that gets used only once"
 
nah, you can put line breaks and spaces and tabs in between to make it more readable and make it fit in 80 chars per line :)
 
6:31 PM
@Code4R7 if you use tabs, then you should be hang from the flagpole by your balls
7
 
It's not like we're using a language that depends on indents?
But I agree, i've never used tabs since the first time notepad screwed my ever first PHP script.
God, I'm feeling old now :)
 
... then why was your first go-to excuse "not language that depends on indents", if you have had a practical experience with why it is actually bad to use tabs ?
also, everyone here is old
the "new programmers" use facebook groups
it's basically to "learning experience", what xbox voice chat is for "discussion skills"
 
Don't you like freedom? And I don't think we can prevent others from using tabs if they really want to. A single find/replace will fix everything if I ever get my hands on such code.
What if I told you I've never used facebook, or a smartphone, or an xbox ?
 
@Code4R7 do you think, that people denouncing the smearing of nutella on your ass, are "against freedom"?
 
Again, I can't prevent others from smearing nutella on their bottoms if that is what they really like to do. And we still have a lot of of soap in the basement :P
 
6:40 PM
you might also need the rope
 
I thought you were reading a light novel ?
 
I was preparing the "champion's evening meal": cold beer and stinky cheese
 
what, no pizza?
 
@tereško speak for yourself. =p I'm 36 years young.
 
@Code4R7 pizza makes you fat
being fat makes you die sooner
... you can see where I am going with that
 
6:43 PM
Isn't that what food is supposed to do ? I think food that makes you lose weight should not be called food. And you can still make a healthy pizza yourself, with a minimum of fat and salt.
@StatikStasis, we're about the same age... do you recall the fine ol' Atari 2600 as well ?
I can't wait to see what's about to happen on atarivcs.com
The time when computers 'just worked' (albeit with a 4K CPU and 128 bytes of RAM)
 
Evenin
 
Evening
 
@Code4R7 I do- but I never really got into Atari. Someone at my school had one. I think my first hooked moment was at a babysitter's house. They had a downstairs finished basement with a huge screen for their projector and had Super Mario Bros. I wanted one after that. Probably 1988 or 1989.
So my first system was an NES.
 
ahh the NES, you know that the gun from Duck Hunt actually worked? Just point it towards the screen and bang, it was dead!
(the virtual duck, no animals were actually killed as the computer does not need food to operate)
 
@Moak what are you trying to do?
 
6:50 PM
My first real computer was a 8086, on which I learned to type commands with quickbasic (and tabs)
 
I am on phone and dont want to read all previous messages
 
but the limit of 64K was sooo... limiting.
If internet existed back then...
you would not need the librarian to go through all FORTAN and COBOL books to find out that there are no books in a library that are actually useful today.
Aren't todays kids spoiled like hell? They don't even know what to do without streaming media via Wifi...
But then, we're spoiled as well.. just type some code and expect the compiler to tell us the error... just think how EWD would hate that :)
Ow well.. it seems that I'm in a impopular timezone, everybody is cookin'.. er... something...
@tereško could you spell out for me what you mean with "you can see where I am going with that" ? I mean, if I'm dead sooner, isn't it the end? :)
 
pizza kills //cc @Wes
 
because it is round, like earth ?
 
@Code4R7 yes, round and flat - just like the earth
 
7:01 PM
yeah, but you know what is the prime reason for people to die?
 
depends on what you mean with "people"
 
humans in general
 
if there are any humans inside a general, then they probably were dead already before then
 
dysentary?
 
being born is the #1 death cause
 
7:03 PM
I need to go back to reading, instead of trolling newcomers
 
if I'm new, what's your age then?
 
crickets
 
I heard - it's pickles: 100% mortality
 
@Code4R7 some of us: early 20s, most of us: 30s-40s
 
7:06 PM
@Tiffany thanks, it makes me feel less old
 
I'm at the point where I groan when I see someone ask about age
not sure if the other 30-40+ are like that
adventures in moderating
 
I'm not really sure what has happened.. tereško has abandoned his light novel, reading back in the chat log to find a sane conversation while he enjoys his beer and cheese. Others seem to be idle..
 
pretty standard
 
So I guess you're the moderator?
 
nope
 
7:11 PM
Why not... you'd be a good one.
 
I'm not qualified, not by a long shot
 
You mean I don't need to watch my language then? (feeling younger still ;)
 
it's a delicate balance
 
Yes.
Do you code?
 
yes... that's a bit of an odd question
 
7:17 PM
... followed up by A/S/L
 
@Tiffany I usually don't care. I feel like a look and feel better in my mid-30s than those who were in their 30s when I was a kid.
lol
 
@Tiffany the interesting part is why you've bothered to answer it.
I wonder why other people code, and keep doing it.
by people I mean humans in general
 
chasing that endorphin high after completing a project
 
bullshit
you do it for $$$
if you don't you are either bored'n'rich or bad at it
 
I'm paid below the average. And before it comes up, I can't look for another job right now because I'm going to be going through some medical testing and treatment in a couple of months, I don't want to move while in the middle of it.
and I'm bad at it
 
7:25 PM
intellectual satisfaction... same for me.
 
I guess I'm rich then.. don't need the money.
And I'm bad at it, I need @tereško to answer my questions on SO :)
 
@tereško money does play a factor, I won't lie on that, but it's not the only reason.
 
Well I need to follow up on A/S/L later.. it's getting darker here and I'm going to have a beer with my wife (that librarian I talked about earlier.. I married her..). See y'all later!
 
> What I would like to do with PH7 is to use it as a base for new project. Since PH7 is not fully compatible with PHP and it implements new functionality, thus extending it a bit, I think it is safe to call it somehow a PHP5++. I would like to go even a one step forward, creating a new language – P#.
I can't tell if it's legit spam or just a really weird email
porque no los dos
 
7:41 PM
PH7?
 
first I've heard of it too
 
I've heard of PH7 before, but never really looked at it
 
oh come on, italics don't work in a link?
 
morngins
 
7:53 PM
@PaulCrovella yeah, after reading through most of it, I think it's both
 
o/ @PeeHaa
 
> introduces very powerful extensions to the PHP programming language such as: ... Native UTF-8 support.
except what they give as an example already works in php :/
 
@Tiffany I like solving problems and creating solutions through coding has helped me do that. I enjoy that the most.
 
> PH7 goes further and extends the type hinting mechanism to be used with scalar types such as string, int, float or even the Boolean type.
or even the Boolean type
 
8:17 PM
I especially like the part about undefined functions defaulting to null
> PH7 does not implements all PHP functions such as crypt() ereg_replace() and so on). Rather than aborting program execution and following the standard PHP engine behavior, PH7 will set a null return value instead so that your program can continue its execution normally giving the illusion that the undefined function have been called and returned null
 
I think returning Fuck you would technically make it compatible with PHP
 
@PeeHaa That sounds horrible
 
Nice part is "and so on".
 
8:36 PM
The defendants probably just shrug. justice.gov/file/1080281/download
 
can we not
 
What? Talk politics?
 
Really wasn't- just thinking... these guys are not going to be extradited. They don't care- that's all.
 
@Tiffany Relaunched PoE after a while. got a free total respec. got an idea of a master shadow build so I can profit on that chance? Assasin
\o/
 
8:43 PM
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I haven't followed PoE in a while, been playing Grim Dawn.
 
an expansion came out, they usually give out free respecs for those
 
I'm guessing you're not talking about power over ethernet
 
I usually google for builds, based on roughly something I'm interested in
 
8:45 PM
Path of Exile
 
sadly not ;) it's Path of Exile. a somewhat very good arpg
 
somewhat very good
 
something like that
 
:P
 
I still want to find a good group to play D&D with using Fantasy Grounds.
 
8:50 PM
nice, never heard of fantasy grounds before. It really looks like a rip off of the glorious doomed project I've started a few months ago.
 
I bought Fantasy Grounds in 2006.
I dmed a game with some friends. It's got better since then. Lots of people use it to play over the internet.
 
I haven't played since... before the internet really took off :/
 
@PaulCrovella sounds like a great moment for a come back
 
Eh... let me find a better video.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier there's only one setting (dark sun) I've ever really been interested playing in, it's dead, and I don't have the books anymore
 
8:56 PM
@PaulCrovella really? that's pretty close (with forgotten realms) to one of my best too. From time to time I write some parts of it to third edition, as my books are in second
 
I think some of the best stuff to look at to get a snapshot is Google Images: google.com/…:
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier afaik there are no worthwhile ds books after the 2nd edition.. the did a shitty port to a later edition (3rd I think) that added crap making it very not dark sun (e.g. tieflings)
 
I haven't played since 3.5
I started in 2nd edition but didn't really get into playing regularly until 3.
 
I never played fifth, but the new encounter/round/day based power usage sounds quite neat
 
from what I've read 5th is a return to form
 
9:04 PM
Heading home. Later!
 
I’ve never had the pleasure of playing D&D but i hope that one day i will
 
I never played anything before 5E but D&D is a lot of fun
 
Also I believe that a couple of days ago there was some sort of d&d bundle on humble bundles
 
@mega6382 if you've played rpg video games before it's best to forget them completely going in... some of the mechanics might look similar, but the purpose of the game is entirely different
 
9:08 PM
you should stay away from DnD: it is filled with satanists misogynists
 
@PaulCrovella thanks will keep that in mind
 
@tereško do you throw your douchey bullshit into every conversation you notice, or do you pick and choose?
 
@tereško no, I caught them just fine
 
also, I have not played the 5th, but 3.5 was terrible and 4th one had 2 hour long battles ... for a full party against 4 gobins kobolds :(
 
9:19 PM
4th seemed like they were trying to get back to the old warhammer tabletop sort of games
 
I would really like to try something like Vampire: The Masquerade, but it needs ... well ... other people
and the table-top scene in Riga (or Latvia in general) is shit
 
I've heard of it but don't know anything about it
 
9:37 PM
yeah vampire sounds quite great as a dnd setting. urban setting, with magic, technology, gore and mystery
I've added fantasy grounds on my wishlist on steam, if ever it gets on sale it could indeed be a good way to make ground for a possible table top thingy
 
so sorta goth shadowrun?
 
basically
 
@NikiC dunno, I give up - Can't find the reason for it being slower, cache miss count is not helpful, but it's consistently 8% slower for for ($i = 0; $i < 10**9; $i++) … 5.65sec vs. 6.09 sec
the patch I pushed right now makes like 1% difference, but that's it
the only thing which apparently changed is vm size, which increased by 17%
 
@bwoebi as a quick try, despecialize assign_obj_ref and assign_static_prop_ref fully?
those probably generate lots of code
 
9:53 PM
I think nearly everyone here has voted, but there's a friendly reminder since the second vote is very close (currently 16 - 15).
 
Yo guys. I'm working with doctrine and when I try to get a collection of "level" from a user I get :
An exception has been thrown during the rendering of a template ("Notice: Undefined index: user_id").
Could this be due to a miss configuration of my relation between my entities?
Or could this be due to the fact that my collection is empty ?
I've tried to check for emptyness but I don't get why I can't manage to use count or isEmpty on PersistentCollection
Any idea :/ ?
 
@LeviMorrison voted on that one
 
...and now it's 16-16. A bit of a nail-biter, even though the feature does not matter much.
 
@LeviMorrison btw, my 2c: I think all of those functions aren't super common and I'd have been more happy with a single array_key_at() function on which the rest can be built
 
If we want to expose the underlying indices regardless of keys, that's certainly possible.
We can get the order through traversal and that is intended behavior, so I wonder how many people would oppose it.
I forget who, but someone did propose what you suggested.
 
10:02 PM
@NikiC tomorrow, going to bed now
 
Terminology may be a bit confusing: how do we distinguish between the key and the order?
I think in userland a lot of people use "index", "key", and "offset" nearly interchangeably...
Also, I'm curious about efficiency given that we have tombstones.
 
"offset" is likely best
 
Except that's what we use for ArrayAccess but that's traditionally "key" terminology...
How about... nth?
 
array_splice/slice use offset
 
Ah, this means we can technically implement array_value_last in userland.
Good find, I knew it had to be possible, though not necessarily pretty.
As long as it doesn't use the IAP and trigger copy-on-write, that is.
 
10:18 PM
I'm splitting comparison contexts between ord and eq internally.. tricky but will be good. Few cases where equality might be a bit faster, eg array == array
 
@LeviMorrison key too
 
@PaulCrovella I meant the whole family, but yes.
function nth(array $input, int $offset): ?array {
  $slice = array_slice($input, $offset, 1, true);
  return empty($slice) ? null : $slice;
}

function array_first(array $input): ?array {
  return nth($input, 0);
}

function array_last(array $input): ?array {
  return nth($input, -1);
}
ta-daa! name of nth pending, of course.
 
10:49 PM
...and message sent!
Ah, my celebration was premature, methinks.
It's still iterating over all inputs, same as ArrayIterator::seek.
@Wes was it you that had the tool that made it easy to grep open source code for usages of things?
I'm curious about array_slice and negative indices, particularly -1.
@Danack @DaveRandom ? There's someone here who has looked up this sort of thing in the past...
 
11:19 PM
@PaulCrovella This is very true. Although Neverwinter Nights was one of the closest games I have seen translated to digital. It was based on the D&D mechanics. I played that for A LOT of hours.
Probably one of the best parts about D&D is sitting around goofing off with your friends. We still talk about different events from some of our games that occurred years ago.
@tereško Only if the campaign calls for it- or a PC role plays one. =p
@FélixGagnon-Grenier nice! Let me know when you get it.
 
@StatikStasis no video game comes close to the actual roleplaying (improv, collaborative storytelling) of d&d.. sure it was fun when they got the mechanics right and came close on the setting, but it was still an entirely different sort of game.. I just worry about people coming from a video game rpg background bringing the wrong expectations and habits
I did try replaying the old dark sun crpgs somewhat recently... man do they not hold up today at all
nostalgia got me through character creation.. and that was pretty much it
 
11:43 PM
what is "crpg"?
 
@PaulCrovella I agree.
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier computer role playing game... it's the old video game rpg genre
 
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