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There should be a sign on MSDN's documentation page: "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."
@Tiffany "It looks like you're trying to navigate to MSDN; did you mean StackOverflow/CodeProject?"
that's a little dark
that was rough dawg
wait!
I wanted to googled that
er google that
17:01
I ... don't remember making those commits
It's an expression relating to a certain unsavory bit of WWII
oh.
I was able to let Google's autocomplete lead me there. Yeah........
@JoeWatkins it'll be pthreads etc I assume
It is a shame that MSDN can be so difficult, when MDN can be so enlightening...
2
@bwoebi I think we can finally discontinue Artax v1.x once Amp v2 is out.
17:02
@DaveRandom that was mostly done in big chunks actually ...
I'm a bit star-happy this morning
@kelunik yes.
We could also do that just now.
@Tiffany Didn't know if that was a known expression. Google gave me this. I guess I'm not disappointed?
@DaveRandom yes, ui, uopz and pthreads
17:04
The API is anyway the same nobody should build projects on Amp 0.16 at this time.
Should I just go ahead and add a deprecation notice?
then later I realized that you mean (this comment almost in real time)
Unfortunately that mirror doesn't correctly deal with commits before the svn import I think, there are others who would be way higher up the list I think
@bwoebi quite a lot of it is ext related stuff ... but more is bug fixes actually ...
@bwoebi How reusable is our Aerys code for implementing H2 in Artax v3 with the same Message API?
I used to do that a lot ...
17:06
@kelunik HPack is reusable … the rest can be copied, but needs quite some adapting
@kelunik So there was no use adapting it to Amp v2?
@Trowski Depends on whether we have time to make v3 before Amp v2 or not.
@Dereleased Like "trigger happy" except I'm starring more things in chat than I normally would.
anyway github is strange about counting ... I used to be higher up in php-src (because of phpdbg and other things), but I changed my email and now those commits aren't counted anymore ... also it only counts master, and merges create a bunch of commits in master ...
@JoeWatkins You can just add the second address to github.
17:09
@bwoebi I'm guessing not…
I did when I noticed, but those commits aren't in master any more ...
well they obviously are ... but it didn't change whatever, so I guess it only counts new commits in master ...
@Trowski I mean, there's still some logic like handling a ping, packing and unpacking messages
@bwoebi So we should probably outsource that to its own package.
@kelunik Though v3 will end up being the version compatible with Amp v2, so it will end up being v4, but meh…
@kelunik hpack? yes, eventually.
17:10
I get it now. MSDN is such a clusterfuck, so it encourages people to contact Microsoft for support, so they can charge 150 dollars for a consulting fee.
@Trowski Why? If we rewrite it now before Amp v2, it's v3.
you should be able to choose how it counts, to take workflow of project into account ... one commit into 5.6 counted as 4 commits, 3 from 7.0 up ... it's wrong ...
@kelunik why would we want a v3 for amp v1?
Thinly veiled Oracle
@kelunik Right, if we have time.
17:10
@kelunik the rewrite still should target amp v2 IMHO
@bwoebi I never suggested that. I want v3 to be the new API with Amp v2 instead of the current API + Amp v2
Otherwise we'll end up with version conflicts.
@bwoebi Sure.
can anyone test this CAA thing, guy has been waiting for too long ?
@JoeWatkins # of commits, however you count them, isn't all that useful to begin with really
@JoeWatkins Which CAA thing?
@PaulCrovella yeah not the best metric anyway I guess ...
17:12
@kelunik Ah, well, fine with both
Depends on how fast we'll rewrite
I think we can reuse a lot of the current code, H2 isn't important for the API for now.
@kelunik as long as there will be a possibility to fetch the push promises from a request, no.
even a review would do I guess, since it comes with a test (although using external servers) ... don't want to keep him waiting for someone to setup CAA on a php controlled machine ...
I've built and tested ... just want a thumbs up from anyone ... pleeeease ...
17:22
@bwoebi That's something we can add later, we just have to mark the request + response interfaces as nothing users should implement.
I don't even know if we really need interfaces for those.
@kelunik I think we should drop them
@Leigh you didn't merge upwards properly I don't think ...
@JoeWatkins cat herding tip: don't throw tasks up in the air for anyone, pick a person and ask them specifically to do a thing. If they decline, pick someone else. (This also applies to crisis situations - "You, call an ambulance." is more effective than "Someone call an ambulance.")
@JoeWatkins I did 7.0 -> 7.1 -> master for one, and 7.1 -> master for the other
@Leigh sorry, my weak git fu ...
17:27
If you think something is wrong, every right to challenge me on it :)
One of us is going to be wrong, and no harm done
my rate of mistakes is stupidly high at the moment ... concentrating is difficult
@JoeWatkins personal issues, or just tired?
month since I smoked pot, three weeks since I smoked cigarettes ... not really sleeping or eating right, exhausted, and annoyed at everything all the time ...
basically the worst possible time to try and set up dual wan
determined not to give in though ... it will get better ...
17:35
:)
(:
Next week on the Life of Joe. Joe buys a new suit and joins a Mormon church...
I kid. Good for you on sticking with it.
I try to lose some weigh, but I need to do sport
Hah, sport :x
17:38
I also found that funny ...
When I'll have the money I'll buy an exercise bike
And mount a laptop on the handlebars
That's pretty much the plan
But instead I'll just watch some interesting youtube channels
Or series
I'd probably go for a monitor attached to a proper PC rather than a laptop, so I can play games
some classic Wipeout or something, probably good exercise bike game
and a brushless motor controlled by an arduino to turn the peddles
17:40
(also good soundtrack)
@Leigh steam link, TV in from of the exercise bike
I have a 24" monitor and a PC that can handle some games
that would work
I could go for WipeOut on a PS1 emulator
@NikiC I've lost track of this, where is it supposed to be going ?
17:50
Hey, I got a quick question
Is this a reliable way of getting an user's Basic Auth status on a page that is visible to an unauthenticated user?
if (isset($_SERVER["PHP_AUTH_USER"]) && isset($_SERVER["PHP_AUTH_PW"]) && !isset($_SESSION["Admin"])) {
$_SESSION["Admin"] = true;
}
Related to that PR, is is_crypto enough? Is it possible to have a cryptographic hash that does not satisfy the requirements of hmac?
you know I'm clueless @Leigh, I'd ask in the thread
I was following along with the previous thread, but I got lost, I'm not sure what's going on there ...
@DaveRandom Hey, you volunteered to set up OpenGrok stuffs. Send me an email and I'll give you more info.
@LeviMorrison sent a mail to [email protected], I won't get to actually doing anything about it for a day or two though
No worries.
18:01
/me awaits shiny new lxr
Anyone know how to color code whole directories in the newest version of PHPStorm? Since I updated to the latest the whole tests directory is colored green which makes browsing through the project easier. It'd be nice to change the color of all /src files too
Right click on the dir -> Mark directories
^ that
You don't get to choose the colours though
there's like 3
in order to have the tests dir marked, you must have set that already though?
unless the new version has started auto detecting based on the name
18:11
could be PHPStorm being clever
hidden magic ;)
Wes
Wes
\o
You should set the sources ones always anyway, because it makes it obvious to spot PSR-0/4 namespacing errors
And if you set the resources one it allows you to inspect resource paths in HTML/CSS
I found a TLD that thought I could make a profit from. I registered with my home address and phone number. I'm smart.
@bwoebi Any difference between these following two things?
	foreach ($xss as $xs) {
		yield from $xs;
	}
	foreach ($xss as $xs) {
		foreach ($xs as $k => $x) {
			yield $k => $x;
		}
	}
@Tiffany cut to: 2 weeks later, trapped in neck-high pile of junk mail with sound of phone ringing in the background: "I'm so dumb."
18:16
@DaveRandom I know someone that might buy it, so I'm asking him if he wants it, and he's interested.
Now I just hope he buys it soon.
@LeviMorrison for most practical things, no
shit I'm late, later all o/
\o
@LeviMorrison I feel like this is a programming homework question.
I think you're asking hypothetically, but it looks like something I'd read from a textbook.
@salathe Who has access to the DO VMs?
incoherent rage towards python
Wes
Wes
18:26
python is nice. could be worse. imagine if it was js
Wes
Wes
@bwoebi how about unpractical things? :B i'm curious about the answer too
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 18:27:35 GMT
Server: Apache/2.2.16 (Debian)
X-Powered-By: PHP/5.5.16
Set-Cookie: PHPSESSID=nmn519et68259dp07h6c7e1dd7; path=/; secure
Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT
Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
Pragma: no-cache
Content-Encoding: gzip
Vary: Accept-Encoding
Content-Length: 1931
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
@Wes well, it will allow ticks and signal handlers to be run inside the generator then
Wes
Wes
isn't it the same with both of them?
18:28
@Wes python has as many quirks as php
hey @brzuchal! was reading the impl of the immutability RFC and I don't understand a lot of the EXPECTED you use or I don't really understand the builtin. But for instance, why do you use it here?
@pmmaga Well you see it's... huh...
@pmmaga EXPECTED on a zend_error branch is a contradiction in terms...
i know the definition, was doubting the usage
18:32
I was replying to message above ;)
me too ^^
oh right ... we should really do replying better :D
@NikiC so it shouldn't really be there, right?
@JoeWatkins (working on it :P)
@JoeWatkins I did that. I also scraight up grep'd the source. I can't find a definition. I'm assuming then that EXPECTED() is always building (at least in stuff I'm building) to nothing, i.e. #define EXPECTED(x) (x)
oh it's gcc?
@Dereleased yeah
18:36
ok, so it's a branch prediction hint?
Oh god IntelliJ
The best thing that happened to programmers since SO
Also on that topic, does it ever make sense to write if(EXPECTED(a) && b)?
I think not
18:42
@pmmaga yes
hmm... fight
go with what bob says ...
@pmmaga Actually most of code was added by Silvio and I haven't got enought time for revision
I've also lost most motivation for this RFC, doon't know really why, but I think I could loose it regarding all unpleasant comments.
My very first idea was providing only readonly keyword
Then it evolved into immutable classes, I do think it could be a good feature, but I think I cannot provide good enought impl for this, also hadn't found out how to deal with cloning
@bwoebi Can you elaborate a bit? I'm curious
@brzuchal Ah ok. Didn't check the commits. But then it may be something you'll want to check when reviewing
THX
I think I'll start new RFC with readonly when find some time, it could remove some boilerplate on implementing immutable classes in userland, and could be used in other use cases also.
@JoeWatkins well...
3
@pmmaga well, it will or won't branch and check … at least when things do have data access (and not only register only), compilers typically branch twice on && inside an if
@bwoebi clear! thanks
@pmmaga so when b is just a boolean or an expression like foo & 0x8, well, then EXPECTED is not worth it.
@pmmaga Because if you make it there then the error is expected.
I personally don't like this approach; I'd prefer all error cases to be cold and their code moved out-of-line.
I suspect we suffer from too many micro-optimizations with regards to this type of thing.
19:03
@bwoebi exactly, i was only thinking of that specific case
And, honestly, we should just use LTO and application profiling for best performance anyway...
Basically we should only put EXPECTED/UNEXPECTED if we've observed that even with those things the compiler still gets it wrong.
@LeviMorrison well, it's hard to estimate when compile will get it wrong, because things change with versions and the actual compiler used
clang does other things than gcc which does other things than icc
@LeviMorrison we could do a bench with and without the hint to check how good they are at the moment :)
@bwoebi Dmitry just slaps them on everything and I doubt he even measures most of the time...
Or if measured again it is some micro-benchmark...
@LeviMorrison yeah, you'll only see individual diffs in micro-benches
19:08
Basically always chasing local minima instead of global can cause issues. That's my point (^_^)
@LeviMorrison why should it in this case? (dinner, brb)
@bwoebi ...and the foreach loop won't?
@LeviMorrison error cases are already cold
@JoeWatkins I marked as "Feedback"
19:16
@pmmaga right
@bwoebi Should Aerys\Body remain as simply class Body extends \Amp\Message {}?
Or just eliminate it entirely?
@Trowski I think we can remove it entirely.
keeps things clean and looking definitions up doesn't require you browsing through two files
19:42
I'm not drunk yet, but...
use function My\Lib\ArrayUtils::merge as merge_recursive_yadda; No, I'm not drunk yet. @notajf does that make any sense? #php
How feasible/unfeasible is this?
20:01
This is definitely a metaphor for something, I'm just not sure what yet: i.imgur.com/dQGADZv.jpg
user6061856
sup
@Ocramius sounds feasibl-ish
Would probably solve some autoloading stuff, at least
user6061856
@Ocramius it looks messy though. :P
Yes, it does
I like it messy
ok, I should really go and get drunk instead.
user6061856
20:04
I don't. XD
user6061856
I like it pretty
Wes
Wes
@Ocramius why not just use functions :B
user6061856
@Wes ikr
Wes
Wes
btw, @NikiC @Ocramius how about deprecating unqualified calls. and remove them in php 8
namespace foo{ strlen("foo"); } // deprecation notice
namespace foo{ \strlen("foo"); } // all ok
namespace foo{ use function strlen; strlen("foo"); } // all ok
If that fixes autoloading, then yes
user6061856
20:12
Doesn't composer have an autoloader?
@Wes aka the largest bc break eva?
Wes
Wes
@Ocramius dunno about internals but i think yes, afaik that's the only thing that's preventing function autoloading from happening
@NikiC can be trivially fixed with AST
@Ocramius true
user6061856
!!get AST
user6061856
20:15
lel
Request must specify a valid HTTP URI
Wes
Wes
@NikiC better done it now than, idk, php 7.9.9 :B
user6061856
I use 5.6.4
user6061856
XD
user6061856
idk when to start using php 7 cuz of bugs. :P
Wes
Wes
20:16
@Ocramius how?
user6061856
I'll wait till they get em fixed
Wes
Wes
oh noice
user6061856
@Ocramius There is bugs
user6061856
@Ocramius in php 7
20:17
@Antono there are always bugs, but 5.x has many more than 7.x
user6061856
@Ocramius is that so?
Wes
Wes
but for those who don't care doing that, can always install a simple autoloader that generates the function pointing to the one in the root ns
@Antono yes
user6061856
I know there will always be bugs
user6061856
hmm
20:18
plus 5.x will not receive any more bugfixes
user6061856
I'd download php 7
DNC
DNC
How do I get rid of response headers? Like Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
user6061856
but my internet is shit
user6061856
@DNC Remove the meta
user6061856
XD
DNC
DNC
20:19
@Antono How?
user6061856
lol
user6061856
you go into your html document, and you remove the tag called 'meta' with that content
Wes
Wes
@DNC response headers that you yourself sent?
DNC
DNC
@Antono There is no meta.. it is a php file
user6061856
Oh
user6061856
20:21
welp I cna't help ya then
user6061856
I feel useless
DNC
DNC
@Wes nah, I am doing a simple echo, but I am getting headers with it, need to get rid of em
Wes
Wes
@Antono i wouldn't make fun of others' lack of knowledge when it's clear yours lacks just as much
@Antono since you seem to have been misinformed about PHP 7 - where did you hear that it "had bugs"?
Wes
Wes
response headers != meta tags
20:22
Interested because I'd really want to fix the source
DNC
DNC
@Wes You have any idea how to get rid of those response headers?
user6061856
@Wes I'm tired I'm getting things mixed up
Wes
Wes
@DNC headers don't magically appear..
user6061856
@Ocramius my mom
20:23
you didn't update the PR, so I have no idea why you done that
user6061856
@Ocramius (it's not a joke :P)
Yes, that was obvious
@JoeWatkins done what?
I read comment, nvm
20:40
Evening
user6061856
hello
Hi
Anonymous
HI
Anonymous
Has this thing github.com/hwi/HWIOAuthBundle ever worked for anyone?
user6061856
how are you? :P
21:04
!!dad
I’d like to give a big shout out to all the sidewalks for keeping me off the streets
I'm experiencing a problem in that the html content in my index.php file doesn't show in the browser. In addition no matter what page I run it gets redirected to the index page. The only content is see is an echo statement that I configured in the database file to let me know the database connection was successful.
Gn all
Have great Thursday
@swydell What web server are you running on?
Apache, nginx, god forbid, IIS
Apache
I can see the html content in the page source. That's strange!
21:07
do you have anything in your .htaccess or I think httpd.conf? file that does any kind of rewrite/redirect?
I'm not completely familiar with Apache, so I can't remember which config file it is
I don't know. What would I look for the those files.
Is the index.php a simple file, or can something overwrite the DOM?
It's a simple file as far as I know.
can you post code to gist.github.com?
I can. I have a github account but I'm not that familiar with using it . I'm going to try that now.
21:11
Redirects on a page can occur with <meta> tags, within PHP using the header() function (before any HTML appears), or within your webserver, which is Apache in your case
gist is github's pastebin site
!!doc header
@Jeeves are you here?
@Tiffany Yes.
!!help
@Jeeves halp.
I'm in my github account. Now what do I look for.
@Tiffany Jeeves is a man.
just go to gist.github.com
and paste your index.php code into a textbox, give it a name, and add the file
@PeeHaa does @Jeeves have a help command?
21:15
@Tiffany Are you a female?
@Jeeves Yes
@Tiffany Where are you from?
@Jeeves Yankee country.
user6061856
lol
@Tiffany What country?
user6061856
21:16
@Tiffany he's a bot
I know he is :3
someone had hte bright idea to give me admin access to him too
argh
I just don't know all of his commands. I can't remember what the doc command is
!!dad
What does an annoying pepper do? It get’s jalapeño face
I remember the best one though
Quick Q: What's your favorite host for RESTful services like PHP/MySQL? Used to use AWS but want to avoid them this time around.
in php 7 > any support of anonymous object type?
21:21
!!skeet
Two wrongs don't make a right. Unless you're Jon Skeet. Then two wrongs make a roundhouse kick to the face.
lol
@Dereleased do you remember what the command is to link to php documentation?
I do not probably
!!php implode
!!docs implode
[ implode() ] Join array elements with a string
21:24
lol, off by one character
@NikiC to the rescue!
!!docs header
[ header() ] Send a raw HTTP header
@NikiC is there a help command so I can get a list? I have terrible memory :(
oh! I found it in the repo
!!command list
Commands currently mapped:
 3v4l - Executes code snippets on 3v4l.org and displays the output (3v4l # Eval)
 > - Executes code snippets on 3v4l.org and displays the output (3v4l # Eval)
 ? - Retrieves and displays search results from Google (Google # Search)
 anmol - Get a random dad joke (JeevesDad # DadJoke)
 at - Get reminded by an elephpant because, why not? (Reminders # at)
 caniuse - A quick search tool for CanIUse, a browser comparability feature list for modern standards. (CanIUse # CanIUse)
21:27
@Jeeves has a lick command.
@Tiffany Then I shall become your master.
._. I'm scared
And I think my boyfriend might object...
I have a bad track record of actually doing the things I come up with to be weekend ideas, but maybe I will write a quick and dirty component for Jeeves to retrieve Bruce Schneier Facts. Because we deserve them
I want to add a cat command, at some point.
it will search imgur.com/r/cats/top and post a random cat
will it take two chat messages, concatenate them, and then replace them with an image of a cat?
dammit too slow
21:30
hahaha
That would be pretty funny.
I see your edits
#notsly
@Dereleased how's your experience with OOP?
I did an object once. It was awful
shrug I have to fix my misspellings or they glare at me.
What's the OOP question in relation to?
21:33
I'm basically writing my first class that will be used in production. I'm not entirely sure what methods I need. I was wondering if there's a trick to figuring it out, like brainstorming stuff. or I don't know.
I can think of one, maybe two methods it'll need, but that's it. Is it fine to not know what methods I'll need at the start, and add them later?
yes
:P
I'd love for someone else to chime in here, but for me personally, I try to design to the point that I know what the outward interface of the object is. If I need a widget class than can foo and bar, then I have methods for foo() and bar(), and then add whatever (usually private/protected) helpers under the hood as I need them.
!!admin list
Adil Ilhan, Andrea, bwoebi, Danack, DaveRandom, Ekin, Fabor, Florian Margaine, Félix Gagnon-Grenier, Gordon, ircmaxell, JayIsTooCommon, Jeeves, Jimbo, Joe Watkins, kelunik, Levi Morrison, NikiC, Paul Crovella, PeeHaa, rdlowrey, Ronni Skansing, Saitama, salathe, Sean, tereško, Tiffany, Wes
I think I once saw it called "Programming By Wishful Thinking", e.g., code the thing that will use whatever thing you're making as though it already does
...seems more efficient to list people that aren't admins
haha
21:38
I used to work for a health insurance company
I think @DaveRandom added me because there was a message I thought would be a good tweet and poked someone else to do it
we'd write most of the code that was eventually to be written in a word doc before even really starting. I feel like that was overthinking the issue by a lot
It also left us really inflexible, needed rounds of meetings if any significant change came up (e.g. some assumption was wrong or a better method was exposed)
ick
yeah
So yeah, I guess I'd say I just work from the outside in. If that makes any sense.
I think I'm writing a wrapper class. I say I think, because I'm not sure if I'm correct.
21:40
Took them long enough
@NikiC awesome
But it'll be a wrapper class for sending email. I'm writing it to be plugin agnostic (mail adapter is passed through adapterinterface), but it will be for PEAR mail.
now this thing is even useful @NikiC
@NikiC that is neat. I wish my diff compares were that easy.
@Dereleased I just realized that I'm trying to keep this decoupled, but the method I'm going to be writing will be coupled with PEAR mail regardless.
I question how/why I'm a programmer.
21:45
@Tiffany The ability to ask "Why not?" and then completely ignore the answer ;)
I assume that's true for all of us
user6061856
lol

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