« first day (1702 days earlier)      last day (3472 days later) » 

13:03
Btw for anyone who is interested in optimizing personal finances, I suggest reading this mrmoneymustache.com
disappointed that there is not more articles about moustaches ...
haha :D
@JoeWatkins I must say, I admire your beard. Mine is much sparser than yours
@ziGi For the record - I don't fully agree with "Don't make the mistakes of putting a bunch of text on your slides. Nobody will read it." Sometimes (particularly with code) it is easier to put stuff on a screen and have it there for people to read, rather than trying to communicate an equivalent number of words verbally. Though (obviously?) reading out a large amount of text from your slides is bad, but that's because it's boring...
Do you have any tips on how code should be put on the slides
13:13
@JoeWatkins when did your beard get white?
wat.
@ziGi Other than in a monospaced font, not really.
@ziGi it's still going white ...
@Danack what about dark background light letters
@JoeWatkins but on your current avatar it's black
it involves chemicals, goggles and a straw for breathing ...
@JoeWatkins oh, so it's not because you've been worried about something. At first I got a bit worried
13:15
I'm training to be father christmas
@JoeWatkins haha nice
@ziGi I don't hold this belief too strongly, but I think that the background of your slide should match the room lighting level. i.e. if you're giving a talk in a dark room, then the slides background should be dark, but for a lit room the slides background should be close to white.
@Danack I see, so that is a bit hard to determine actually
I'll make two versions and use the one accordingly to the light
Exactly!
yeah, that
kudos for the good job, the beard doesn't look died to be honest
13:19
it looks died when it's just been done ... and it took several hours of barely breathing and considerable discomfort to make it how it is now ... I do not recommend it ...
everything you are meant to put on your face hair didn't work ... so I just used peroxide ...
it made me quite sick, gave me all the symptoms of a nasty cold ...
Ah, sounds nasty
aren't there natural products for whitening beard?
well there are products for whitening face hair, marketed for old ladies with tashes ... but I tried that and it just went orange and yellow and was terribly patchy ... so I had to use peroxide to fix it, then it went 5 different shades of yellow that faded over the next 5 sessions, now it looks mostly white (6th time) ...
Sounds really invasive, and hazardous to do as well
oh yeah terribly, I really don't recommend it
if I had to write down instructions, they would include the phrase "wait until you cannot cope with the pain and discomfort any longer, but not so long that you loose consciousness" many, many times ...
haha
13:26
SUPPPPPPPPPPPPPP :DDDDDDDDDD
www.agar.io is an awesome game
Btw, on a different note, I have been living in the Netherlands for ~5 years already, a I know the language in a relatively good level for a decent conversation, nevertheless, to be honest it is really hard to deal with bureaucracy, since the tax authorities and other institutions refuse to talk or share any information in English with you. And now when I go to Bulgaria or an English speaking country, I feel that I can do anything because it takes so much less time to deal with those things.
@Worf no, he is great
I am making this remark, because I went to a meetup with some Dutch guys in Rotterdam, and I was speaking with one of them explaining that I had to find new friends, work for the place I live, deal with the dutch authorities etc. And he told me good job. It is the first time someone is appreciating what I've done, even I don't appreciate as much since it seems like a normal thing. But I was thinking about the language barrier that it's making quite a lot of impact on you when you live somewhere
And I guess a lot of people don't appreciate that, especially native English speaking people, so I am urging you to try to get out of your comfort zone and try to learn another language, it would bring you benefits for sure.
if I'm going to learn another language, it's going to be a useful one, for computers ... having the ability to speak to even more humans is not that appealing ...
@JoeWatkins sure everyone decides for themselves
13:37
^^ humans worth speaking too can probably communicate in Haskell anyway
^ true
you want to bring the haskell fanatics here again?
Lol, that was fun
Ahagagaghagahgahga
just be careful with the messages you send to the universe ^^
13:38
^^ truer words never spoken
I know this first hand as of late
They are not only truer, they are the truest
Well, technically second hand, but same diff
@rdlowrey Can I somehow use ["id" => 3] instead of [":id" => 3] in Auryn while executing Injector->execute($callback, $params) where params variable is array and each parameter is without :
Talking about Haskell in the PHP room, why aren't there tuples in PHP?
@ziGi having more than one data structure is for wimps ...
13:42
I guess because of the versatile nature of arrays
@marcio no.
@JoeWatkins nice defense there :D
@JoeWatkins anyways, there is more than one structure in PHP
I think the reason there aren't more structures is more to do with the kinds of people that use php, over the versatility of an array
@ziGi it might look like it to you, but there really aren't ...
@JoeWatkins so an object is the same as array?
@ziGi PHP is very "poor" in this extent, that's a good thing
13:44
@ziGi it's properties are
or were, and sometimes are ...
Sorry, I am not trying to touch a sensitive subject, I am just trying to learn something
not sure what you mean ... why would it be sensitive ?
anyway ... don't think adding more structures has ever been seriously discussed, you would just be met with "Do it in SPL"
Yeah, it kind of seems to me that I am trying to be a vindictive asshole by opposing what you say
@JoeWatkins haha sure, objects are part of SPL so yeah
> Yeah, it kind of seems to me that I am trying to be a vindictive asshole by opposing what you say
that's a really bad way to describe it
Oh… ensuring integrity in PHP is fun… The tests all pass… but … make install failed on travis … wtf…
13:50
@marcio hm, what's a good way to describe it?
@VeeeneX Yes
@Sherif How?
@VeeeneX Just like that
So I need to add : to each key in array?
right?
No, you don't.
Your question was if you could do B instead of A. Asking me "how" doesn't really make much sense.
13:51
I had already tried it without :
My answer was that yes, you can do B instead of A. i.e. "id" instead of ":id".
And It doesn't works
@ziGi you got friendly responses, IDK why you got such impression.
@marcio cause sometimes I drink too much coffee and I start overthinking :D
@VeeeneX Sure it does. Perhaps you need to elaborate on what you expected it to do that it didn't do or what it did that you didn't expect it to do.
13:53
@ziGi what kind of structure you think you need in PHP?
/me goes to walk dogs
ugh
I don't want to write an ar writer...
@Sherif I'm not getting the point, sorry
@marcio I don't need any specific structure, since arrays and objects provide all of the functionality I have ever used. The thing is what do you do if you want to use PHP to process more data, not just for CRUD. I know PHP 7 is quite faster, maybe I have to do some tests to see if I have the need for it to be faster
> Revert "Revert "Expand optimizations regarding short-circuting a bit""
13:58
@marcio (with fixes added)
I was going to talk about that test suite... somebody made (0 && 1) === true and not a single test failed ;_;
@marcio hence I added a test for it
@marcio since when is 0 different than 1? :D
@VeeeneX What aren't you getting? Using ["id" => 1] vs. [":id" => 1] has the same effect in PDO::execute(). "It didn't work" doesn't tell me anything useful, because for all I know you you prepared a statement with SELECT id FORM users WHERE id = 1 instead of SELECT id FROM users WHERE :id = 1 and it's your prepared statement that failed. Give me something that's actually useful if you want me to help you like the error you got, or the code you used.
@bwoebi that's not the point, Bob
14:02
@marcio I just mean… nobody has tested for && and || with constants
yeah, there are obviously things missing …
but with people breaking things, new tests are added…
because sometimes there's only a failure in case first operand is constant and second operand isn't… and such things… you just don't assume that to happen
Is Python a fine language to learn?
@HassanAlthaf for what?
For everything really.
GUI Applications, Enterprise Applications
Web Applications
@bwoebi I think this is a nice test about functional vs imperative in PHP 7 3v4l.org/nKeGj
In General, is Python worth the time?
14:11
@HassanAlthaf Is my car worth your money?
@Sherif calm down a bit? His question was about Auryn, not PDO and is sensible within the context of Auryn...
@Sherif some people don't think about those details when discussing something else, the code is vulnerable but you are discussing completely different problem
@HassanAlthaf enterprise software requires java or .net and lots of middleware and many managers and consultants. that's why it's called "enter price" software. when you sell it, you can ask for any price
@Gordon enter/any-pri(s/c)e
:D
I suck at jokes :(
@Danack I wonder what makes you think I'm not calm? What is Auryn and what makes you think I felt the question was in any way, shape, or form not sensible. What wasn't sensible was his follow up question had you bothered to spend more than 3 seconds reading the entire thread and trying to understand what was said rather than just formulating ad hoc opinions about my state of emotion.
14:16
wow.
37 mins ago, by VeeeneX
@rdlowrey Can I somehow use ["id" => 3] instead of [":id" => 3] in Auryn while executing Injector->execute($callback, $params) where params variable is array and each parameter is without :
Auryn is a library that he was asking about.
I see. I clearly missed that.
What is the latest PHP version? 7.0.0 alpha1?
Which you replied to....saying yes it was possible.....
@bwoebi if you're implementing constant folding the first thing you might want to set up is a good test suite with constant expr :D I'm not criticizing you, this is about the test suite.
Why not go and have a beer or three outside?
14:19
@marcio Feel free to add random tests which aren't covered yet
s/random/non random
@Danack Yes, I did. I read ->execute($callback, $params) and [":id" => 3] and my mind immediately translated to PDO, while completely glossing over the Auryn bit. It was an honest mistake. Thanks for pointing it out :)
np. I still stand by thinking a beer is a good idea.....in fact ....*reaches to fridge*...
… in fact no beer is still a better idea.
It's 10 in the morning. A beer doesn't sound like a very good idea to me, but cheers ;)
14:22
@Sherif Dan is in the UK I thought?
@FlorianMargaine forEach only works on arrays right and not on {}?
@bwoebi I wouldn't know, but even if he was it's still 10 in the morning for me
@PeeHaa right
@PeeHaa you may want Object.keys(obj).forEach
@DaveRandom @DaveRandom
@FlorianMargaine :( tnx
14:24
Hey guys, Im trying to use an API, albeit successful at the moment, I have hit a wall. Basically one of the keys is an ID represented as an int larger than 32-bit can handle, however I only need it as a string, how can I get the >32-bit number into a string without losing precision
@bwoebi Actually visiting Normandy in France for a bit.....so it's plenty late enough, though technically I should be drinking cider not beer.
@PeeHaa in es6, for (let [k, v] of Object.entries(obj)) {}
@Danack you meant calvados.
@Dendromaniac You sure the API doesn't already gives it you as a string?
@FlorianMargaine I'm not falling for that again....calvados is not nice imo.
hehehe
I like that "again" :D
@Dendromaniac If you're getting this data from the API as JSON you might want to use JSON_BIGINT_AS_STRING see php.net/json-decode
@Sherif I'll take a look now, thanks
@Dendromaniac You mean a float ;)
When integers overflow in PHP they become floats
or double
technically
@Sherif Oh, fair enough. If nothing happened to it, it would have been an INT, or should anyway ;)
Sure
Might ask, are you actually on a 32-bit system? Does it really make sense to be using 32 bit architecture in this day and age?
14:30
@Sherif I am on a 64-bit system running a development XAMPP server, XAMPP windows only supports 32-bit
Ahh, I see.
All the more reason to go with vagrant/virtualbox/docker then :)
I know it only supports 32 bit since echo PHP_INT_MAX; = (2^32)-1
And, may I ask what are those (vagrant etc.)?
Virtualization ... google them
And welcome to the 21st century
Will do, I have heard of virtualbox, and man has that caused me some hassell. that one sure is staying on the internet...
Believe me you will love vagrant/docker once you start using it. It changes your development environment completely and makes you hate to ever go back to something like XAMPP/WAMP/MAMP nonsense. Those are ancient technologies no one wants to use anymore.
Docket especially works best for a dev environment. SO many benefits.
14:34
@Sherif Do you have any good resources to get me started, because to me it feels like I'm walking back into the torture that once was virtualbox. I don't want things to go haywire again. Thanks.
@Dendromaniac this is a good place to get started: puphpet.com but you ought to be able to configure vagrant for yourself.
@FlorianMargaine how the fuck can this be undefined here? :)
Technically vagrant runs on top of virtualbox (unless you pay for a better VM.) - but it works sanely unlike trying to use virtualbox directly.
@Danack What OS do you recommend, I'm stuck between CentOS and Ubuntu
14:39
@Dendromaniac Possibly actually Fedora. It's basically the same as Centos but without having to wait years for updates. Centos is too out of date for stuff, and Ubuntu is not my cup of tea.
@FlorianMargaine Hmmm. I always thought this would automagically refer to the closure itself
@PeeHaa nope, this is dynamic
@FlorianMargaine I don't believe so - vagrantup.com/vmware It's probably worth the 79 bucks, but I can't be arsed...will try it when I upgrade my mac.
@Danack indeed, weird
14:41
@PeeHaa stackoverflow.com/a/338106/4777622 Might help you a bit. Not to sure what you're working on, but from the sounds of it, this is relevant...
@PeeHaa but really, either use the classical pattern or the module pattern
vmware also has some 'interesting' ethics in their company...
@FlorianMargaine I am actually using the module pattern, but thought "meh fuck it" for this tiny util function
Sure, https://www.vagrantup.com/ https://www.docker.com/
vagrant just makes using virtualbox way easier for the average dev
docker is a great tool for making shipping your apps between deve/qa/prod more seamless and portable without all the headaches you probably experienced using virtualbox for the first time. It also makes it possible to run multiple environments within the same VM.
Consider this scenario: you have lots of different server setups for your production environment (app server, cache server, db server, load balancer, etc...), but you want to run a local dev environment and don't have enough cpu/ram on your dinky laptop to spin up 5 different virtual machines. Well, docker makes it possible to just run them all in one VM, but splits up and isolates the resources as if they were 5 different VMs.
> Consider this scenario: you have lots of different server setups for your production environment
You have entered, the Twilight Zone cue dramatic music.
14:46
Hmm?
That sounds like a nightmare scenario which would lead to screaming...
Why's that? That's a pretty common scenario in my experience. In fact, that's the very reason people love Docker so much.
You can use it like you do version control software for your code. Making it possible to push server configuration changes into your environment and later roll them back if something goes wrong.
Just makes the whole deploy process so much simpler.
It's also great for sharing artifacts across repositories.
@Danack That sure did give me a laugh xD
@Dendromaniac docker.com/tryit best way to fall in love with docker is to just try it yourself :)
15:09
Btw I did some testing for Imperative vs Functional programming in PHP
Wow look at all the microseconds you've spared yourself :p
@Sherif best way to hate it too
@FlorianMargaine I take it your not a fan of docker
heh
I'm not a hater either
just someone who knows docker is not a silver bullet, after using it extensively
He's just neutral
15:14
and I actually wrote a few wrappers using just lxc for my needs
@FlorianMargaine You've been looking for a silver bullet? I stopped looking for that 10 years ago.
@Sherif well, your speech just 15 minutes ago made it seem like a silver bullet :)
@Sherif how do you kill Vampires then?
@FlorianMargaine Not sure how you got that. I explicitly named some of the benefits and why you'd want them. I've been doing this far too long to believe in silver bullets.
@ziGi You invite them in and make them watch True Blood of course
@Sherif or the Vampire Diaries
15:17
Or any of the other 500 trillion vampire movies
So if you don't look for the silver bullet, how do you kill Werewolves?
With a Glock 17?
@DaveRandom @bwoebi, have you guys noticed that php7@20150601 is faster than 7.0.0alpha1? 3v4l.org/Ah10E
That doesn't mean much. You're measuring differences of microseconds there. Run the test a few more times on a few different archs and you'll probably get varying results between which is faster.
@ziGi I can't tell these numbers would be reliable. Test locally with the two versions, each time at least 1-2 seconds.
15:24
@bwoebi I see, so my measurements are incorrect because of the environment
@ziGi hey look, you even get once a negative time difference ;-)
Yeah, I noticed
PHP's microsecond clock also has weird race conditions
Not entirely reliable
So what's a better way to measure?
@Sherif it's using gettimeofday function
15:27
It's fine for the most part, but I know that on different architectures you can get some weird race conditions where microtime becomes unreliable. Just don't bother trying to measure microsecond differences in PHP really. Use Xdebug or Xhprof profiling to find considerable performance differences relatively rather than benchmarking the difference between 2 lines of PHP.
True, KcacheGrind also allows you to see the output in a nice way AFAIK.
@bwoebi Yea, I'm aware of that. I've seen bugs dating back to PHp 5.1 though where it does have weird behavior.
I don't think it has much to do with the fact that it's using gettimeofday so much as how those numbers are getting stored within the engine at run time.
Then again, Windows is an entirely different animal too.
Also btw. @ziGi I assume that a service like 3v4l.org probably runs in a virtualized environment where these time drifts are much worse.
I usually only ever get these issues in virtualized environments @Sherif
@bwoebi yeah, most likely. How do you test then yourself when you develop?
it's not an accurate clock, but I'm not sure what would lead to a race condition ... a thing to be included in the list of things more accurate than microtime, counting elephantwise (one elephant, two elephant, three elephant, and so on)
15:31
@bwoebi That's possible. Also depends on your architecture supporting certain virtualization instructions.
@ziGi well… not using a VM? ;-)
@bwoebi do you test on different OS's?
@ziGi usually, no.
At least not for times.
It's not like most PHP code would be OS dependent… PHP usually achieves pretty well to hide the OS from you.
If you have virtualization enabled on your new Intel processors, for example, you typically get pretty comparable performance to most host OSes, though of course not identical.
Besides, with most people deploying on the cloud these days, you likely will be running your crap on virtualization anyway
:p
@Sherif but usually you don't need better granularity than one second… except for measuring time.
15:36
Interestingly enough, I got stopped :D i.imgur.com/cSc0vqc.png
@bwoebi Don't need more granularity when measure performance? I find that to be untrue. When you're at the scale of several hundred million users every microsecond counts. I just wouldn't be using microtime() to measure it since it relies on gettimeofday.
@Sherif I mean in that case you probably won't be using time based performance counters
@bwoebi Probably not, no. Depends on whether you're doing benchmarks or telemetry analysis though. I have used Intel's SDK for measuring down to the picosecond based on x86 ISA though.
@Sherif what is telemetry analysis?
@bwoebi Analyzing telemetry data? Say you want to know how your TTFB is performing on a certain page over time. That's a good gauge for most devops/SRE crowds.
Benchmarks only tell you how something performs within an artificial context. Deploying your tweaks to production can tell a very different story. That's where analyzing your server's telemetry data comes in.
TTFB, TTLB, IOPS, etc...
DB replication lag, so on and so on ...
15:48
ah okay
(I mean… I didn't know what the term telemetry meant)
Ahh, it's just a fancy way of saying "analytics" more or less :)
yeah got it
Just that when you're doing it across a cluster of servers and monitoring the data from a remote end-point it's usually more aptly described as telemetry
tele(remote) metry(measuring)
15:54
[I have pushing, switching away… and then noticing a 40 mins later that the push was rejected because new commits in meantime… :x]
@ziGi heh, yea that article just doesn't understand what TTFB is used for really. Obviously it's useless to the end-user. It's never meant to be consumed by the end-user. It's a measurement of how your code is performing (i.e. PHP), not your webserver, or the user's browser, or the server's compression, or the network latency. None of those things are taken into account when measuring TTFB, which is why TTLB is also an important factor, but it depends on what you're looking for.
TTFB is typically a number most meaningful to your ops team. Things like page load time and the like, are not.
If you have a server that's suddenly started spiking in TTFB 3 standard deviations above the 95% experience, then clearly there is something operationally wrong with that server. That's a very useful number to have in that case :)
Remember, this is not a benchmark. It's meant to be consumed as you would a time-series. It's most meaningful when looked at over time, not as a snap-shot.
16:30
whaa
can anyone else help me fix this php error from the command line?
it's failing to run because "dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/local/lib/libjpeg.8.dylib .. Reason: Incompatible library version: php requires version 13.0.0 or later, but libjpeg.8.dylib provides version 9.0.0"
@AaronHarding install a new version of libjpeg?
okay omg, i've been on this for like 2 hours and running "brew link --overwrite jpeg" fixed it
-__________-
@bwoebi i had done that already with brew
Looks like you only compiled it but didn't install it, it if needed you an overwrite option
a dev had been playing around with trying to install ttfautohint manually on this machine and since then php broked
so it was also really hard not knowing what had been done to it
ahh okay
well good to know! i'm really not familiar with this kind of stuff :c
so most likely, libjpeg was compiled and not installed and this was the issue?
so ironic how it's like "okay imma need some help from someone and then you try one more thing" lol
happens.
16:40
yeah, i guess it does
thanks tho!
:)
17:01
8)
17:14
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
> wordpress is so shit that you could give free energy to the whole planet for a decade with the methane it's releasing in just one hour
3
17:30
That's gotta smell though
Releasing all that methane into the air
user4542733
hey, have anybody used to work with digital signatures ?
@salathe ┬──┬◡ノ(° -°ノ)
 
1 hour later…
18:41
Hey there :)
@Worf First thing I read on the first time I come here. I already love this chat :D !
Heya Dead Chat! xD
Got one question ^^
How do I remove  from the beginning of a json response ?
@TheLittleNaruto Why do you have such characters in a json string ?
But still those special characters are coming!
It was never before.
Oh, it's because your file is encoded with BOM (that's what I just understood reading your link)
It just got appeared all of sudden when I hit the url.
Before it was giving me proper json response
18:58
Can you try to save the file without BOM ? Or maybe this file is not yours...
How do I do that ?
You mean removing those lines of codes as suggested in the answer link I shared above ?
I do not think you will be able to see those characters if you open the file
True! I am not able to.
What I mean is - let's say you use Notepad++ - open the file, click "Encoding" in the menubar, and select "Convert to UTF-8 (without BOM)", then save
I am sorry! But that worked! Thanks :D
19:04
I love how a search for "DAWG" on github yields actual DAWG implementations for almost every language BUT PHP. heh
Why being sorry :P ? Glad it worked !
Just saying... :P
You should add that as an answer in same thread.
Or should I ? ;-)
Ohh Shit! Someone has done that already!
Man! I thought of earning some repo on cheap answers! -_-
I'm also trying to get reputation :P
Well at least I discovered this chat
19:08
Cool :)
user image
3
@Sherif I was talking about Auryn DI for PHP chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/23878855#23878855 and not about PDO
@VeeeneX oh yea, I got that now. Glanced right over the Auryn part :)
So that's the problem :D
I should sleep now as tomorrow is gonna be hectic.
Good Night :)
Good night :)
19:38
@VeeeneX Is there a specific reason why you want to do that?
evening
who linked to that Cory Doctorow lecture?
@ircmaxell you?
anyway, this lecture was awesome
"thank you" to the person who linked me to it
A question to which the answer is almost certainly no; Is there any way to get the list of names of the elements in an enum type in C ?
@Danack debugging info (which is included via -g) should contain these info… or do you mean at run-time? no… except you read the debug info of the binary at runtime, haha
19:54
@bwoebi What I want to do is to write a tool that will check whether I have missed handling some enums in a library. i.e. I can write the list of the values of the enums that I'm aware of, but then need to pick up whether there are some other enum values that I hve missed.
tbh - this might be easiest with some regex....
@Danack in that case you probably need to analyze debug symbols… that's the only way. I can't tell you how, you must look it up…
So, a regex on the source code it is!
@Danack have fun
(have fun with macro generated enums evil face)

« first day (1702 days earlier)      last day (3472 days later) »