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13:00
eval() also works just fine.
black humor
besides
That oh so slight difference between dark humor and black humor
I'm watching that anime in which I've found that man in the hat which is on your avatar icon, @Jack
he's a jerk!
Hmm, that's .. ehh .. a somewhat strange thing to say; how many episodes did you watch?
well, he's kinda a jerk.
13:03
How so?
only 63 .. it's unlike me - to watch so long anime (I usually avoid something longer than 26 episodes) - but this is fine anime, I like it. Good thing there is - not too much blood despite they use swords for fights
well.. I think uraharu is a "good guy".. but still he's a jerk :p
and by sword you mean katana I hope ...
oh. so in english it's "katana" too? well, ok. But - it's hard to call all their swords as "katana" (traditional Japanese sword). So many different forms. And also that "bonkai"
Can Ichigo's sword be called a katana?
Ichigo's weapon is a gigantic cleaver lol
13:06
I used to practice in ken-do for a time..
Or, a rather large butcher's knife
@Magikaas no. zangetsu (:
So your earlier correction sort of self-contradicts, since he was referring to any swords he has seen in the show
kendo .. oh, whacking each other with a bamboo pole right? :)
no.. used "wooden sword" (boken) to practice in kumitachi
13:08
cool
i've practiced fencing for about 8 years
long ago, but still good memories
haha. I'm wearing dogi when I'm at home. Strange - but for all this years I didn't found any other clothes that I'll like more to wear at home
it's very comfortable and simple - that's why I like it
Googling dogi only gives dog pictures >_>
hm.. my transcription may be bad
"dogi" is traditional Japanese clothes to practice in martial arts or kendo
Aikidogi (合気道着 or 合気道衣) is the formal Japanese name for the uniform used for aikido training. Most practitioners simply call it a gi or dogi. There are few if any rules regarding the aikido uniform other than local or organizational guidelines, though for reasons of tradition most aikidoka wear an aikidogi that is made from bleached (or occasionally unbleached) cotton or sometimes cotton-poly blends. Practically aikido training sits somewhere between judo and karate in the nature of its practice and therefore it is very common to find both lightweight karategi and heavier judogi being...
^ yes, but without black part
black part is permitted to wear once you'll reach 3-rd kiu
13:12
So a white shirt?
all white
Ah, thought you just walked around pantsless with a white shirt on, when you said without the black part xD
lol
black bottom part is sort of "privilege" to wear
dogi consists of two parts
you are Japanese?
of course not
13:14
He's as Japanese as the pope.
You don't need to be japanese to know these things xD We have the internet these days and he probably learned it from lessons?
lolz... I know nothing of Martial Arts in any form.
Well, by the time he's done with Bleach he would know some Japanese :)
^ I've learnt that when I was struck by boken from my sensei when I was doing something wrong
s/stroked/struck :)
13:16
I can't help but feel that that sentence sounds... off...
^ exactly, hahaha
I have followed Bleach for years. I only know character names and zampakutos
"stroked by boken from my sensei"
my english is bad, I know..
Well, then don't take it personally, but take it as advice? ^^'
The internet is always here to help point out your mistakes ;)
@AlmaDo Honestly, I don't think your english is that bad.
13:18
Hmm, with my ucwords() patch I can capitalise all letters that come after a vowel ... ucwords($str, 'aeiou') =D
when I'm not sure, usually I'm using translate (google as a sample) if I'm not sure, but that time I was lazy, and, besides, my FF didn't highlight the mistake (I guess it's just another word)
Well, english is a pretty messed up language anyway
And I see a lot of Americans who know nothing but english and are much worse than you ;)
still they're native speakers :p
The sentence was grammatically correct, but the word choice was slightly off, it would have worked if only from a technical standpoint
@AlmaDo Stroked is a proper word, it's past tense of to stroke.
13:20
stroked and struck is both the past tense of a verb. The verbs are even sort of similar
PHP > English
Well, I didn't practice for a long time. That happened that my dodjo was closed :\
@iroegbu Yeah, it's far more messed up. ;)
PHP has a russian constant in it somewhere I believe, but syntax is English :P
@Magikaas Well, my cat can tell whether I'm striking or stroking her haha
13:21
Good point, but they both involve touching in some way
it's difficult to express yourself completely in English. There was a point in my life that I understood only English it was a problem talking to some of my relations.
So depending on the force of the strike, it could technically be mistaken for stroking, though that sounds strange xD
Yeah, it gets kind of weird quickly.
@iroegbu Is English your lingua franca?
May I suggest 'tapped'.
13:23
I'm Nigerian. Yes. We have too many cultures here, we must speak English.
Tapped has another connotation actually.
also, my sensei always make me count till 50 in Japanese when we were practicing in some long exercises meh..
Hehe ^^
Nice, also sort of teaches you to count :P
well, we were using many Japanese words (names of techniques etc)
that "suvari-vadzy-kokju-ho" is hard to pronounce :p
Not sure about Japanese counting, but in Chinese you only have to remember 1-10 and then make combinations with them.
13:25
@Jack less than stroked does.
@Jack same there. You need, however, to know 100, 1000, 10.000 e tc
@iroegbu In my childhood most people around were speaking in Russian but that does not make one lingua franca for me. And, in fact, now it's much worse than my English.
@Danack Whenever I see 'tapped' I think of 'Would you tap that?' ;-)
Hahaha
@AlmaDo Yeah, in Chinese the 100 is different as well.
13:27
1 through 9, juu, hyaku, sen, man, if I'm not mistaken
could not be arsed to write out the 1 through 9, feeling lazy xD
I always wonder, why they have different options for 4 ("yon" or "shi") and 7("sitj" or "nana")
@Leri English is my Lingua Franca.
shichi / nana for 7
yeah
why two options .. meh
@AlmaDo It's actually more complicated than that .. it depends on what you're counting.
13:29
@Jack aaand.. numbers are not so abstract as they should be?
Like, whether you're counting people, grains of rice, pieces of paper, etc.
@iroegbu Okay, just ensured that. Well, I am really curios what do you mean by not being able to express yourself in English? Well, I had that kind of problems with English but not with native language.
@AlmaDo Aren't you glad that English numbers are much simpler? :)
@Jack yeah
Then there's also the hitotsu, futatsu, mitsu part of counting >_<
13:31
It's said that Finnish is more complex still.
btw, for example, in Arabic language (which I used to learn too, lol) they have 3(!) forms - single, twice and many. Not like "one"-"many" like in other languages, but "one"-"two"-"many"
that was a hell
Damn corporate proxy. could not install QT at work. :/
@Leri There are many words in local language that don't have english translation that didn't sound stud
An example would be nice. :-)
*stupid
13:33
@AlmaDo Ah yes, in Chinese you have "yi ge" (one), "liang ge" (two / double) and then "san ge" (three) ... but number two is actually "er"
Asian languages ... it's just ... something else.
@Jack so in Chinese - also three forms for each word?
Well, no, not for each word :)
Guess they figured that "er ge" just doesn't sound nice.
in Arabic - for each word (which can have "count" form)
wow, that's nasty.
I only know one in Dutch which does not have an accurate translation in one word. "Gezellig", a sort situation where you are with a group of people and all enjoying yourselves, closest I can come is cosy, but that's where people are close together, which is not what the word is about :P
13:35
Yeah, I would say cozy too.
in English: two forms. Like: car & cars (one car - many cars). In Arabic - three forms (one car, two cars, many cars)
But not cozy in the sense of snug.
yeah, but that's the thing
cosy in itself does not quite cover the load, unless if you explain the meaning
or exceptions
true that
@Leri imagine the confusion when I use a word that can have 3-4 meanings in my language
13:36
Hahaha
translating to English will be a problem.
Mmm, my english is practically better or at least on par with my Dutch at this point, since I almost communicate more in English than I do in dutch
@Jack also in Arabic they have only 3 vowels (which are very rarely used) and instead they are writing whole words with non-vowels only and then use special marks, which turn non-vowel to it + vowel sound Oo
aha! A good one. We have a greeting that is the direct opposite of "Welcome"
@Magikaas You're overseas or ... ?
13:37
@iroegbu I see. Well, you still can translate contextually I guess.
@Jack Nope, but I'm very anti-social in real life, I spend most of my time online in voice chat and other chats and forums
@AlmaDo I can't even read Arabic properly .. my eyes just can't fix on any particular word.
you can in some cases, but it takes time to think through it if you wanted to change to English
So it's a natural consequence
@Jack true..
13:38
I wouldn't have any problems understanding in Local language
@Magikaas Like second life kind?
@Jack Not that game, but since everyone speaks english online in games, I end up speaking english too, same in raiding when I played WoW
oh, btw! When Ichigo is in his "bankai" form, his sword is.. well, black katana (very beautiful, btw) :p
seen the new Zangetsu, the twin blades?
Yeah, I like his bankai :)
13:43
I like when it's 'hollowfied'
Also, I thought Yamamoto is just old weak wreck, but he was awesome in fight (:
Yes, and he has major abs!
he reminded me "master Yoda" from star wars lol
ehmm ... i don't remember seeing yoda shirtless though
okay, this is getting a little weird heh
I mean - by how "non-combat" he looks like and how string was he in battle
why? Because talking about anime in php room? Come on.. we all know that PHP has same principles :p
13:49
Yoda looked like a grass hopper in the last part of III, hopping around the Emperor.
That's the upper leader of the shinigame, right? or someone else?
Hahaha
@AlmaDo His Bankai was monstrous
Ah yeah, I've only seen the anime, so my knowledge cuts off halfway, but it was cool xD
well, I'm near 1/6 (62 episodes from 366) .. lol. Do I really want to watch them all?
There will be some fillers, but it ends where manga should have ended
13:52
I'd skip the fillers tbh
yeah , those are quite terrible
If you are a fan of shounen fighting anime, why not :P
that whole crap about the bounto
.. dear deer god
Good morning
@NikiC hows the AST based parser coming?
> 06:44 <arigato> maybe a better approach would be to write in the PHP script "$foo = import('pythonmodule');" and have a separate pythonmodule.py file callable with method-call-like syntax from php, '$foo.bar()'
oO
Anyone used Docker?
@ircmaxell nightmares incoming :o
yup :-)
user895378
14:11
@Leri It never hurts to learn, but whether or not that book is right for you depends on what you want to do.
user895378
morning
@ircmaxell Started working on it again yesterday, should have basic statements working soon
then need to do top-level statements and cleanup ^^
@Fabien No....I was going to look at it, but then I found out that it's stateless.
@NikiC If I can help on something specific, let me know
nice! Still using the same bison parser (obviously modified), or are you switching parser tools as well?
14:12
The former.
@NikiC And then the other 90% of the work!
@ircmaxell still bison
@Danack What problem were you going to potentially solve with it and what solution did you choose in stead?
/me doesn't know enough about parsers to say anything about that, just know there was movement to switch to lemon at one point
user895378
@NikiC Does your recent work still allow for $var = yield something(); in the future?
14:14
@rdlowrey yes
@Fabien My problem is that deploying applications with Chef is still a pain in the arse, and the wrong solution to the problem of "how do I deploy stuff as a self-containable thing, rather than a thing that depends on other things."
user895378
sweet.
@rdlowrey Understanding complete flow of my data from point A to point B in future protocol version and improving my IPv4 skills.
@rdlowrey
What would that do?
user895378
@DaveRandom same thing as this:
14:15
@Danack Fair enough. We just had a talk with server guys about deployment and he said lots of people using docker I wanted to make sure vagrant (which is what we'd been eyeing up) was on the same premesis.
user895378
$var = (yield something()); // currently we have to use parens
@Fabien i.e. I want to be able to deploy my current apps, rather than have to re-write them as stateless, i.e. with all logging done on a dedicated central server that isn't based on Docker. I'm going to look at just packaging things up with apt/yum - it seems far more sensible and a proven technology.
On that note. How taxing is running multiple VMs on a machine?
@Fabien The load should scale evenly....why do you need to know?
user895378
@Leri I think beej's socket guide would be far more useful. It's where I first got my feet wet.
14:17
One of the questions he flagged about using multiple vagrant based VMs was regarding performance. I remember the answer roughly being nope, it should be fine but wanted to clarify.
@Fabien Yeah....but why would you need to use multiple vagrant VMs at once?
You're only developing one thing at once.
user895378
@Leri Woops, that's the wrong link. Use this instead: beej.us/guide/bgnet
Hi there I am back
@Danack For staging maybe. Or shared hosting.
And easier deployment to production
@Fabien "For staging maybe." well maybe "Or shared hosting." Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
14:19
Getting sick of our hospital tho
Not shared?
By shared I mean it's our own box hosting multiple sites.
@Fabien It's not thought to be a good idea by people who have tried it. I haven't....but Vagrant does make things work slower than decent virtualisation solutions.
We need different environments (PHP mostly) for different sites. And we want to easily go from Dev -> Staging -> UAT -> Production
@rdlowrey Yeh but why is that useful?
I can't see what that actually does
@Fabien That is what virtual servers are for.
14:22
(I've not done anything other than very basic generator stuff yet)
@rdlowrey Looks exactly what I was looking for. I think that will dramatically improve stability of my apps. Thank you. :)
The virtualisation behind Vagrant is meant to just be a bit shite, and so not really a good idea to use under anything that needs to have any sort of performance.
Performance is a mild concern for staging. For production it's client choice. We always try and push dedicated. But ultimately it's their call.
user895378
@DaveRandom It doesn't do anything itself, but it makes it possible to do things like the following real example from my aerys server:
user895378
function myApp($httpRequest) {
    $result = (yield asyncMultiply(6, 7));
    yield "<html><body><h1>Async result: {$result}</h1></body></html>";
}
14:23
If they choose to sit on our shared box, should I VM them?
user895378
@DaveRandom So you can do async things that feel synchronous through the magic of yield.
user895378
And FWIW I'll probably require 5.5 in this current artax rewrite so that I can use generators internally to do things like that.
@Fabien tbh I don't really know - I haven't had to actually deploy stuff to anything other than Amazon for a while. But planning on using Vagrant in production when everyone else who has tried it has decided to no longer do that, sounds like a bad idea.
I wonder what they opted for.
@rdlowrey Using Artax, addFileField artax times out, but with addField it goes through (semi) as expected. Server-side is expecting image_upload[ImageFile][] as the key for the file upload. I can only get a response with addField and base64_encode(file_get_contents($path)); any ideas?
user895378
14:26
@Jimbo what OS are you on?
@rdlowrey Ubuntu x64
@Fabien Either some virtual sever provider, or if you have a big enough box something like openstack.org
@rdlowrey so that would do var_dump(myApp($httpRequest), myApp($httpRequest)); // int(42) string(cba) "<html><body><h1>Async result: {$result}</h1></body></html>" ?
user895378
@Jimbo Are you only sending the one field or are there others?
@Danack We pay for our hosting on Wirehive.
14:28
@rdlowrey There are others...
$body->addField('image_upload[Name]', md5(uniqid()))
    ->addField('image_upload[AccessLevel]', 'company')
    ->addField('image_upload[CompanyID]', '9168')
    ->addField('image_upload[ImageFile][]', base64_encode(file_get_contents('/path/to/file.jpg')), 'image/jpg');
If I do addFileField as the last one, it times out
Hey @rdlowrey you should remove the <h1> from that HTML and the resulting strlen will also be 42 :-P
user895378
@DaveRandom No, because myApp is a Generator the var_dump would give you back the generator. The server knows what to do if it your application is a generator.
user895378
@DaveRandom oh snap!
@rdlowrey Right yeh, I really haven't wrapped my head around this thing properly yet. We use 5.4 at work and to my shame that's one thing I've not played with privately yet.
inb4 something something playing with genitals privately
@rdlowrey Sorry, my fault again. Hope you didn't go and try and look too much into it, got it working with a different test url so it must be something server-side
user895378
14:31
@DaveRandom Well after the artax and auryn things are finished I'm going back to the aerys stuff and then hopefully you'll have something to play with there that will help demonstrate.
Artax remains supreme
user895378
@Jimbo Well I was going to say this ...
user895378
If you need to base64 encode the file data then addFileField won't do that for you
user895378
But it's not out of the realm of possibility that there's something screwy in my code. That FormBody stuff was done quickly and could be wonky.
Would you add a VM based on Env (EG Different PHPs) or single site (Web Server per site)?
14:37
@Fabien Site
It's as simple as this: is two sites share a VM, and you fuck up that VM (or one of the sites does) you fucked up both sites
@DaveRandom cheers. I guess we'll have to just see how well vagrant is handled with it. We don't have the skills to go much more custom.
@DaveRandom Yup. Or compromised.
It's dead easy to just back up each VM and then if something goes wrong with one of them you can restore that VM without affecting any other customer
Yeah but Fabien's going to be doing the virtualisation with vagrant....which probably lacks most of the VM tools needed to manage stuff properly...
VirtualBox + Vagrant.
So then... use something better?
14:40
It needs to be easy though as I wont be the only one doing it.
Should I get hit by a bus I would like my fellow devs to be able to carry on.
Using something better is what I'm suggesting.
I didn't know vagrant until last week. Something better is welcome, just need to find it :)
That said, I am in favour of shared database servers (a replicating cluster shared between some/all clients). Since this is not public and databases are restricted by user logins, the game changes somewhat for database 0 you want replication, but you don't want each client to have a shitload of VMs because that's inefficient and probably expensive
Actually @Fabien, why are you talking about changing your hosting? Vagrant is really just there to allow you to replicate production, not to force you to change your hosting.
We're not changing hosting. We are and always were with hosting Wirehive. We're updating our deployment process. Which in turn is upgrading our hosting to suit.
1 month ago Git was just a tool to keep our code stored online.
FTP was how you updated a website.
user895378
14:44
wat
Sure it works but we want it to be better.
user895378
lol @ FTP :)
user895378
Sounds very Dreamweavery
yeah, SFTP is waaaay better.
sFTP tbf :P I should be a little more lenient than just saying ftp :p
I can't be sure tbh though I didn't deploy anything
14:45
FTP: Fuck That Protocol
7
lol
user895378
^^ that
sFTP: Seriously. Fuck That Protocol.
Either way you can get a feel for what I am trying to change here and establish. Even if I don't know much/enough myself.
Of course I don't think many of us in here have agency experience... I think.
DAMMIT COMPOSER Y U FUCK ME AROUND!?
Also, morning.
14:47
Without taking you to dinner first?
boredom + hospitals = argh
user895378
@DanLugg morning
We're after a sane, easy and professional way to work/deploy.
@DanLugg morning
Either I have some serious fucking problems, or composer has some serious fucking problems, or both.
14:50
more and more people are using bootstrap -.-
I'm erring on the side of me, but have a hard time accepting that composer would be innocent.
#Lazy_People
@DanLugg Both have fucking problems xD (rofl)
@Danack Is the resident composer expert :)
user895378
@DanLugg That's how I feel every time I try to accommodate composer users.
user895378
And I feel like there's as much blame on my end as there is on composer's.
14:53
holy crap, dart actually looks interesting
Wow, seriously. I'm not going to even try with it anymore.
Fuck composer, with a rake covered in cacti.
ass cacti
@DanLugg Don't give up, Try it harder and you beat it next time
@MikeM. Nope.
user895378
14:54
@ircmaxell yeah it is
/me is installing it now :-)
When the streamline-to-suffering ratio is as cockeyed as it is, it's time to give up.
user895378
I really like dart isolates ... it's like communicating over sockets/ports
@DaveRandom should I move north ?
oh my the (evil) @ircmaxell is going to go beat the shit
14:56
huh?
user895378
I remember having some philosophical quibbles with some of the api choices in dart's http libs, though I don't remember what they were now.
@ircmaxell idk what you're installing but I bet you're gona beat the shit out of it xD
@JoeWatkins Yeah. Cheaper bigger houses. If it wasn't for the people it'd be great.
I haven't used dart yet for anything, found myself in it's manual a few times researching different things ... looks nice ...
user895378
Dart isolates are really nice for the kind of async programming I want to do.
14:57
I like that it has a mix of static and dynamic typing
user895378
The dart method cascading (chaining) syntax is interesting. I can't decide if it's awesome or terrible.
user895378
> The ".." syntax invokes a method (or setter or getter) but discards the result, and returns the original receiver instead.
@Fabien I'm seriously considering it ... you get soooo much more for your money, I have no real good reason to stay in this part of the country other than kids schools, it just so happens to be end of school year so I have a couple of months to get their school sorted anyway ...
@rdlowrey hrmm... that is interesting
@rdlowrey which is awesome, since each line can be a statement, not just an expression
14:59
At first glance I'm gonna say "awesome"
@JoeWatkins couple of months?
our vacation is just 7 weeks

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