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8:00 PM
Even people who have guns will be on an overwhelming disadvantage against the army if it needs to put order.
The problem is that more than 80% of the army are kids aged 18..21
 
@tereško At least the last of those is on an appropriate channel.
 
should it be before or after Babylon 5 ? Where would it fit best?
 
@tereško In the Eon of Horus
 
taroscopes.com/miscellanous-pages/aleistercrowley.html .. the places where google takes you
 
Holy Google
 
8:04 PM
@tereško :)
I could practically hear you all Googling it
@tereško Are you still watching Animes?
 
... well ... I will just assume that it is a reference to something from Book of Lies and let it go
 
USA is the best.
 
I like Japan.
 
@SecondRikudo haven't had time .. but in theory: yes
 
@tereško Have you watched Toaru Majutsu no Index?
(A Certain Magical Index)
 
8:06 PM
France is the best of course ...
 
I think .. lemme look it up
 
The ones with the white flag? :P
 
E_NOT_ENOUGH_FAN_SERVICE
 
@SecondRikudo yes, 10-or-so episodes. Was kinda boring.
 
8:07 PM
@tereško I remember more episodes
There's also a second (better) season
 
@SecondRikudo How clean is it? (nudity and gore)
 
IIRC, quite clean
 
@LeviMorrison The anime? Pretty clean.
No nude, some gore.
 
some minor blood splatter
 
@tereško Check out 'Space Brothers' if you get a chance. Though it's a bit more Slice of Life/Comedy than anything else.
 
8:09 PM
The light novel is really good though
 
@SecondRikudo I might watch it then.
 
If you're looking for a good read, it's that
 
Hard to find a good, clean anime :/
 
@LeviMorrison The theme is science vs magic thingy, if you're into that kind of stuff.
What I really liked about it is that there are very little holes in the powers of the characters, every ability is very physically accurate.
 
@LeviMorrison Space Brothers :D
 
8:11 PM
@LeviMorrison what's your problem with gore ?
 
Yeah, @tereško smashes tiny avatars under a giant MVC
 
emm ... context ?
 
@tereško 'Gore' is sickening. I can tolerate violence but when there's lots of blood and such it's just a turn off.
 
then you have to look for psychological stories
 
Monster
 
8:14 PM
^ yeah, like that one
 
@LeviMorrison Define "Gore"?
 
because most of the "action" animes will have a lot of stylized blood, at 10 atmo pressure
 
@tereško I bet you're having Afro Samurai in your head right now
 
actually it was Hellsing
 
Heh, touche.
 
8:16 PM
Cowboy Bebop. I can't remember any bad scenes.
 
@tereško The only thing I liked about Hellsing was the fact that he can do whatever the f*** he wants, and no one can do anything about it
 
So, I have a bunch of routing stuff, a package if you will. And it "works", but I don't like how it works. Does anyone know of any examples of good routing implementations that can handle branching; such that you can attach multiple routes to another?
 
I like a strong protagonist.
 
@Fabien I wouldn't call Alucard a "protagonist"
Let's just say it's very good for humanity that he is was sealed under the control of the Hellsing family.
 
Aye.
 
8:17 PM
I just need something to stare at awhile that I haven't written.
 
@DanLugg @rdlowrey has a routing lib, not sure what you mean about "branching"
 
@SecondRikudo Branching as in a routing "tree" rather than a 1-to-1 match lookup.
 
@DanLugg Example?
 
Have any of you seen The Garden of Words? It's not particularly exciting but it's so well animated.
 
8:20 PM
@tereško "Off-with-his-head Anderson"
That guy was awesome XD
 
- foo/bar/baz/qux
- foo/bar/baz/zip
- foo/bar/lol
Would instead be persisted as:
 
Anyone know if there is a way to get error info for getHostByName?
 
- foo/bar
    - baz
        - qux
        - zip
    - lol
 
> Anti-Hero: Just about everyone.
@LeviMorrison this is one of the best bloody animes for you to see (Hellsing OVA)
 
I can attach handlers to any set of rules; so if foo/bar matches, a callable is queued; if baz subsequently matches, another one, etc. But the problem I'm having with my design is the mutability of the request (wrapped) through the process of traversal; I'm thinking I need a different approach to rid the feeling of fragility.
 
8:23 PM
:15976636 Misread "best bloody" as "most bloody"
@DanLugg Use an adapter over an existing Router object
 
@LeviMorrison I don't recall quite properly, but I think I avoided that function, not sure why.
 
@SecondRikudo Could you elaborate?
 
@bwoebi I lost my todo list
 
@DanLugg Take an existing Router, and use an adapter to do your gradual matching.
 
remind me
removed -e
 
8:25 PM
The adapter contains the Router object, and uses it to match.
 
wat else ?
 
@SecondRikudo State is maintained in the adapter? Or that should be externalized but referenced...
 
@DanLugg "State"?
 
strip -e from cmd args… make filepath argv[1]. (or the first parameterless command)
[4:57pm] bwoebi: rename next command to continue (as c from compile is now free, is more intuitive for gdb users and won’t hurt normal PHP devs)
[4:58pm] bwoebi: fix the bug that when we press enter so that it repeats last cmd
[4:59pm] bwoebi: ^ krakjoe todo for you…  when you get time somewhen today
 
You need to track what part of the URI is matched or unmatched; and any parsed parameters along the way.
 
8:26 PM
The queue of callables should be maintained in the adapter, yes.
 
@JoeWatkins ^ that?
 
That too, yes.
 
@SecondRikudo That too.
Okay, see that's essentially what I'm doing, I think I just need to reverse the relationship.
 
@DanLugg Why?
What's wrong with composition?
 
Reverse the relationship of my current implementation, then it'll be on par with what we just discussed.
@SecondRikudo Yea I know, I know.
 
8:27 PM
Aha
 
Right now I'm using a visitor-ish approach, but it feels fragile.
 
ah right so just the enter bug now then
 
Thankfully I should be able to change this without borking much because interfaces.
 
@DanLugg Interfaces FTW!
 
8:30 PM
@SecondRikudo lol, that and v0.0.0 so API is spelled IDGAF.
 
@tereško Why did that not get parsed by the plugin?
 
@JoeWatkins are you talking to me?
 
@bwoebi yes
 
8:35 PM
@tereško it's a shame we need to spend many delvotes on these poor questions.
@cryptic pull yourself together, where are you?
we need "bucket list" option for delvotes, they get lost in queue
 
... its not like she's dispersed
 
not like @rdlowrey, but still :P
 
Can someone translate this into more understandable English for me? bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=33510
 
@LeviMorrison I think it's something like: "when we assign a fcall by ref, why should it be necessary to make the func explicitly by ref?"
 
@LeviMorrison Sure thing: "I'm a twat."
 
8:41 PM
@LeviMorrison I read everything, it's properly written, but I can't understand a thing, outdated maybe?
 
If the question was posed the way it would make more sense: "When a function returns by reference why do we still need to assign by reference?"
My take: avoid references at all costs.
 
$c =& $b->getval(); // $c = reference (expected) -- $c is a reference, but not to the property returned.
 
avoid references at all costs, and never let them cross a the "function border" (no passing in, no returning)
 
@tereško so you hate this: github.com/ircmaxell/ZPP
 
# file t_.php is var_dump($argv, $argc);

~ root# ./php-src/sapi/phpdbg/phpdbg t_.php -- 1 2 3
[...]
phpdbg> r
array(5) {
  [0]=>
  string(6) "t_.php"
  [1]=>
  string(2) "--"
  [2]=>
  string(1) "1"
  [3]=>
  string(1) "2"
  [4]=>
  string(1) "3"
}
int(5)
~ root# ./php-src/sapi/phpdbg/phpdbg -- t_.php 1 2 3
[...]
phpdbg> r
[Nothing to execute!]
 
8:43 PM
@bwoebi done ...
 
@JoeWatkins why does the latter not work?
 
I dunno, I disagree with the "kibosh references" approach; I find them rather useful for tryDo methods that return bool. Such as tryMatch($subject, &$match)
 
although, while it uses references, it actually prevents you the user from ever accepting a reference... :-D
 
@DanLugg In a language like PHP, doing that is just a bad design.
 
@ircmaxell that looks like some type of dirty hack from the "surface impression"
 
8:44 PM
@tereško Oh, it is a very dirty hack
 
the script to run is an argument to phpdbg ...
 
@LeviMorrison Disagree. What would you suggest; return false?
 
@ircmaxell then the rules here are: "fuck the rules"
 
-- delimits the arguments to phpdbg doesn't it, so not expected to work ...
 
@IdrissNeumann lolwut
 
8:45 PM
@DanLugg In many situations the correct answer would be: return the value. If you can't then throw an exception or fail.
 
@LeviMorrison But not always is it an "exceptional circumstance" that the method failed to complete the task.
 
@JoeWatkins hmh… okay can live with it I just thought as the filename is usually $argv[0], so it should be allowed behind the -- too…
 
@DanLugg Then in this case you need a return struct.
It is returning multiple things; be explicit about it.
 
@tereško :-D
 
Or two functions: one that says it is possible and one that does the work.
 
8:47 PM
@bwoebi no it shouldn't how will we tell what is the first argument and what is the file if we do not delimit argv ...
also you didn't update help to reflect changes you have made
 
@LeviMorrison I dunno; I feel the signature is rather explicit; an ad-hoc return type would be frivolous and unnecessary. I only use this in cases of bool return, value as an "out" parameter.
 
@JoeWatkins if any arg before was the filename then the first argument behind the -- will be the filename.
 
If I need to return more data, then that's a type, or at least an (object) []
 
keep it simple
 
@DanLugg then you either want a result-object or an exception
 
8:48 PM
@JoeWatkins I just wondered :-P
 
stupid
 
I can see couple of things that need change in code
 
@JoeWatkins having everything ready for merging into php-src… should I do it now?
@JoeWatkins which ones?
 
@ircmaxell Agree to disagree in some circumstances.
 
@DanLugg and in those circumstances you don't need strong typing
 
8:50 PM
step should be called next now shouldn't it ?
 
no it's fine.
step has a very specific meaning, next is much more general.
Be precise and concise in command naming.
 
@ircmaxell I don't follow; I'm sacrificing type-safety, but that's because PHP doesn't support it in this context.
 
@DanLugg no, because nothing can support it in this context
if you want to mix return types, you can't have type safety. No language does that for you today
 
php-src root# ./sapi/phpdbg/phpdbg ../t_.php
[...]
phpdbg> b 3
[Breakpoint #0 added at /private/var/root/t_.php:3]
phpdbg> r
[L2          0x10f2732f8 ZEND_ADD                       C0                   C1                   @0                   /private/var/root/t_.php]
[L2          0x10f273328 ZEND_FREE                      @0                   <unused>             <unused>             /private/var/root/t_.php]
[L4          0x10f273358 ZEND_SEND_VAR                  $argv                <unused>             <unused>             /private/var/root/t_.php]
@JoeWatkins ^ why do I get oplines listed in default mode? (I fear it's me who made some error after pulling your code two times yesterday)
 
@ircmaxell Which is why I'm not mixing return types; it's always boolean.
 
8:53 PM
@DanLugg Oh, you're saying references? I was past that already
 
Hahaha; yes, I'm favoring (in some cases) that you return a boolean value representative of success/failure of a procedure, and the value is returned as an "out" parameter.
 
@bwoebi clean-phpdbg ?
 
@JoeWatkins that's not part of normal clean?
 
You can still throw exceptions, if the procedure causes an exceptional state.
 
@DanLugg agree. But if it doesn't, then a result object which fully encapsulates the result (including any possible "status" flags) should be implemented
 
8:55 PM
@JoeWatkins will try…
@ircmaxell yes it is too… but it's faster to not have to recompile everything.
 
fair, just checking
 
ha!
 
Java? äh!
 
Help please (and to be fair, also applies to php, and surprisingly basic imo)
0
Q: Number of external requests when serving a resource

Benjamin GruenbaumSo, I have a web application that makes a lot of requests to the server for data. A project requirement is to have very fast server response times. The server is hosted on a cloud based platform. The app uses sessions to keep track of user authentication once they've logged in. Since it's hoste...

 
8:57 PM
@ircmaxell Wholly agree.
 
I'm surprised I never ran into this issue before.
 
@JoeWatkins chrrrm… chrrrm… did help ^.^
@JoeWatkins anything else before I can merge?
 
few minutes please
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum if hitting the cache is expensive (that expensive), then you need to rethink your architecture
such as storing data in cache in the first place
 
@ircmaxell is 100ms considered expensive for that?
 
9:00 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum 100ms round trip for a cache?
I've removed memcached servers because they were taking 30ms...
 
Yes, sometimes it goes up to 200, it can get less if the data is already in memory.
 
@bwoebi pull and test, one last look around for you, and should be okay ...
 
@JoeWatkins I did test just now
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum yeah... I'd figure out another solution. As that "cache" is actually going to be slower than your DB in that case... Unless you're transferring a boat-load of data...?
 
I did this second push, I mean look around in help and just run a few tests, itl'l take a few minutes and you might catch something ...
 
9:01 PM
@ircmaxell Hah, DB queries can take up to a second in this case.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum WTF is going on?
can you elaborate on what the heck you are doing that's taking so long?
 
Good question, it's a lot of data and a lot of joins. It returns about 200 rows of information, usually requiring a join, sometimes it takes more.
 
how much data is a lot?
 
@JoeWatkins found last minute bug
 
Let me just show you the cached and non cached versions, both are slow atm
 
9:03 PM
told ya it was worth it ;)
 
wants me to login, you're not getting me that easy :-P
 
This is the cached, but unminified version.
 
still wants me to login :-D
 
Well, I gave you the password didn't I?
 
9:06 PM
I didn't see it, you must have deleted it too quick
 
You're a room owner, you can see deleted messages right?
 
Oh yeah, whoops
 
:P
 
which part are you having trouble with?
the performance charts take a while ;-)
 
They take a longer while in the non-cached version
Look how slow they go :/
even in the cached version - it's way too slow.
We have a header on the response to indicate a cache hit or miss btw, you can check that
 
9:11 PM
Well, what's the slow part? I'm sure you've profiled...?
Well, with a cache RTT of 100-200ms, a hit likely won't even help much
but a miss is going to kill you
 
@JoeWatkins github.com/krakjoe/phpdbg/commit/… hehe… fixed^^
 
cool
 
^ success is just reading again and again for input…
we need to force quit the loop if if get stuck there
 
1990s: <table></table> 2000s: <div></div> 2014: div { display: table; }
9
 
ok good ... go ...
 
9:17 PM
@ircmaxell lol
 
Maybe my cache is just broken.
So, what sort of cache response times do you usually see in your code? With redis for example?
 
@ircmaxell LOL
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum if it's higher than 30ms (for an external service), then you likely have a network problem
 
@ircmaxell on Azure? Hmm.
 
or cache servers are quite far from app servers (which is a network problem)
@BenjaminGruenbaum no experience with Azure. I know with EC2, latency within a zone was reasonably good...
 
9:21 PM
that gmpfloat guy is so clueless that I nearly answered that mail. gmpint as floats with zero precision, wtf.
 
@ircmaxell ah yes, the well known digital unit of measurement, the "boatload", equivalent to 1024 "shedloads", equivalent to 1024 "shitloads" ....
 
@ircmaxell Scott Guthrie said the round trip using this cache in this way should be 1ms. I have no idea where the latency is :/
 
> 64 bit windows does not allow access to the parallel port which we use for controlling additional hardware
 
> Web Sites, VMs and Cloud Service can retrieve objects from the Cache Service on average in about 1ms end-to-end (including the network round-trip to the cache service and back). Items can be inserted into the cache in about ~1.2ms end-to-end (meaning the Web Site/VM/Cloud Service can persist the object in the remote Cache Service and gets the ACK back in 1.2ms end-to-end).
 
I don't even want to begin with that statement
@BenjaminGruenbaum Well, then you know what to track down
@JoeWatkins shit, I should have refactored to say "Buttload"
 
9:24 PM
@ircmaxell but I have no idea how, wish me luck
 
profile @BenjaminGruenbaum
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum first off, how much data are you pushing around from cache?
and how many calls are you making to the cache server per request?
@BenjaminGruenbaum that's about what I would expect from a decent network infrastructure dealing with small-ish objects (less than a few kb)
 
@ircmaxell a few GB total. Less than 5.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum for a single request?
 
@ircmaxell oh, no, in total. For a single request let's say 10kb tops.
 
9:26 PM
Oh ok, you almost had me going
 
@bwoebi don't forget tagging
(keep website uptodate)
 
@ircmaxell Heh, looks like PHP to me xD
 
@JoeWatkins by the way, is that working OK? anything to add?
 
all good, better update docs when I got some time
 
I wanted but I suck at writing really (among other things)
 
9:32 PM
hehe, dw, I'll get to it ...
 
pushing just now...
remote: Changesets accepted. Thank you for your contribution.
:-)
 
Yay!
 
@JoeWatkins done! PHP-5.6 and master :-)
Btw. also tagged.
 
cool
 
9:34 PM
Will sleep on it before I delete all my repos from @github, but won't be doing anything other than work-required stuff there from now on.
 
@ircmaxell What's the reason?
 
why @ircmaxell ?
 
He's been doing the real shit instead of drama :P
 
9:35 PM
@TOOTSKI coool, got something coming together then ?
 
Pushed new #phpdbg features to #PHP just now! Included are watchpoints and a lot of bug fixes. Just in time for PHP 5.6 beta 2.
 
@TOOTSKI no, just been watching this for the past 10 minutes, and it's insane
 
We need more people on bitbucket anyway. Especially paid users. Atlassian buys stuff from my employer, so the more money they get the happier I am. :)
 
/me stays away
 
Bitbucket is useful for hiding my shameful repos. for free
 
9:37 PM
@JoeWatkins yeah, something something, got the back stuff but I suck at front and need to put together as a whole thing, for starters, let it be "blog" for whoever wants to contribute.
 
@bwoebi I am not all that familiar with version naming, but .. emm ... isn't the "beta" stage when you stop adding the "new features" ?
 
@Fabien Pfft.
 
why would you quit if you done nothing ?
 
@ircmaxell lolwut?
 
@tereško I asked the RMs for a special exception…
 
9:38 PM
@JoeWatkins You wouldn't.
 
Actually it's just extending a new feature… not adding whole new features (phpdbg being the new feature itself).
 
@ircmaxell Oh my god... not again...
 
@JoeWatkins the basics were: "The investigation found nothing illegal, but did find a bunch of things that we don't agree with, so he resigned". So basically, it's not saying nothing happened. It's saying something did happen, but that it wasn't illegal
 
@ircmaxell Or rather, it was light enough to shut everyone up. That's what I gather from it.
 
9:40 PM
We can neither confirm nor deny anything.
 
@Charles Sadly, everyone goes to bitbucket to hide their repos, thus making it less visited etc. I like it better anyways...
 
@SecondRikudo considering there was a resignation, it wasn't light
 
@ircmaxell Light enough to not bring it to court.
 
@SecondRikudo or that they don't want it brought up in court
 
In such cases, there's usually some sort of deal involved.
 
@ircmaxell Exactly. But if the allegations did have some serious stuff, there might have been no way avoiding it.
 
-14
Q: How to programming

user3558093You write the test , whose task is to find a link with a given address in Google search results . Assumptions: a) Number of output pages from 1 to n , the starting point of the test is page number 1 b ) Seeking link: is the page numbers from 1 to n or not found at all. c ) Available objects with ...

 
What is it about anyway?
Do we know the original accusations?
 
affects company image. Guilty or not.
 
@TOOTSKI Yeah... for me, it's just about hating git's command syntax. HG forever!
 
9:43 PM
Which is why accusations are so damaging regardless of validity.
 
@tereško I don't know if I should star that XD
 
@Charles Boooo! My supervisor can't function in git so we use svn, luckily I have git svn :D He's old like you.
/me runs
 
@TOOTSKI Pfah. I still think subversion is perfectly fine for many development models. :p
 
9:45 PM
If I comment out the second line, I get results, but if I don't comment it out, I get nothing.  Does this even make sense?
$result = count(array_intersect($project_ids, $project->parent_ids)); //? true : false;
//  if($result < 1) { break; }
 if($result >= 1) { echo  $result; }
 
@Charles There's 3 of us, and haven't had problems for last 1000 revisions, to me, there's no difference. (except I'm a bit more versed with git syntax)
 
@Charles In that case, let's just call you ugly and stupid and go on with our lives.
 
@TOOTSKI Yeah, and for me it's just the syntax of git that I still can't internalize. Now if hg'd just get sanely named temporary branches...
 
Pfah.
 
9:48 PM
It's a matter of comfort zone, everything has its drawbacks and benefits.
Except git is much better :P
 
@TOOTSKI In every possible way.
 
More potential in git, to do awesome or cock-up.
 
it must be tough to have a vagina, I guess ... but I've never, not one time, witnessed any exchange between programmers where opinions are motivated by the anatomy of an individual ...
 
There's pro-women programming and even PHP groups.
 
@JoeWatkins Hello! My testicle-adorned brother in maleness!
 
9:54 PM
Though I think the aim is to get more women into the CS field
 
@Fabien isn't that sexist ? am I allowed to run a public boys only programming club ??
humans make no sense ...
 
Might start a pro Welsh-African PHP programming group. I think I'll make myself Vice President... no wait! Junior Vice President!
 
@JoeWatkins Yeah, it's not making sense to me too, if you're stressing the difference, aren't you doing the opposite...
 
@JoeWatkins I don't get it either. It's like a half-right. The best thing is to leave it alone.
 
9:56 PM
that programming language rubs me wrong because if it's a joke its incredibly wrong and as a serious language, it's still... wrong
word of the day: wrong.
 
@SecondRikudo you realize that's a joke, right?
 
On a much heavier scale I see things like people protesting the oppression of women. How about the oppression of anyone?
 
@ircmaxell Of course
 
Either way intention isn't wrong it's just what it is.
 
@JacobRaccuia What are you talking about exactly?
 
9:59 PM
4 mins ago, by Second Rikudo
Also https://github.com/Feminist-Software-Foundation/C-plus-Equality
at least I'm assuming
 
Ah, that. Thanks.
 

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