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11:00 AM
Don't get us wrong, deletion is a tool to prevent the spread of crap, which, in this case, is the crappy answer.
We cannot delete the answer because it's not negatively voted, and the question doesn't offer much salvageable merit too. So we decided to vote to delete it.
You can go to Meta Stack Overflow and present your case there, but I doubt you'll make much of a difference.
 
why is that guy who needs a name still bitching?
 
@tereško You're in a relatively bad mood today. Have you lose Civ5 again?
 
what makes you think that I am in a bad mood ?
 
I will just send an email to Jeff Atwood. The use of close/delete does not make sense. This is good demonstration. As you have said yourself, you are abusing logic flaw to moderate the content in SO. Your intention is to delete the answer, but because you cannot, you have decided to delete a question.
 
@GajusKuizinas Jeff Atwood no longer works with Stack Exchange so that does not make much sense.
@GajusKuizinas Just post on Meta Stack Overflow, present your case, and people will see it and judge.
 
11:04 AM
Send an email to Jeff Atwood... LOL...
 
You asked us here in the room to review your question.
We did, but not in your favor.
That's how things go in community moderation.
If you still think you have a case, you can go to meta and complain.
 
Sure. Meta Stack Overflow is an appropriate start.
 
But know that you may not get the answer you want from there as well.
 
We've been in this business long enough to know what's right and what's wrong :)
 
@GajusKuizinas Make sure to post a link here when you do. We'd like an opportunity to explain our side as well.
 
11:06 AM
Don't think you're the only one to complain on Meta.
 
@SecondRikudo Do you mind if I quote conversation from chat in the Meta question?
in full
 
@GajusKuizinas We don't. The conversation here is public, and anyone can read it (it's also indexed by Google)
However, try not to take things out of context.
 
@TOOTSKI One moar!
 
:D
FOR THE LOVE OF GAWD
 
If you really need that kinda flexibility give c++ a chance :) — amar Dec 24 '13 at 9:24
 
@SecondRikudo terminated
@CSᵠ s/flexibility/headache
 
@AlmaDo well, when WP is not enough :))) C should be the way to go
 
11:19 AM
WP = ?
 
@HamZa how in the Earth this "WP" then is related to C ? ;\
 
@AlmaDo that's the joke lol
 
oh, found
 
11:30 AM
wow, really. Down-voting without comments. This is getting ridiculous. I am just wasting my time. : )
 
@GajusKuizinas are you suggesting to remove the delete feature?
 
@HamZa No, I am justing do forbid deleting closed questions until they are reopenned for at least 7 days..
 
@GajusKuizinas Wat?
 
suggesting*
 
@GajusKuizinas what's the sense? How re-opening is linked to deletion?
 
11:32 AM
It is all in the meta question. I would be repeating myself.
 
0
Q: Should i learn PHP (this is not vague..)

ZentI have been into Python i know a bit. But what i really want is a good balance with web development and actual programs. For that i'll have to learn more than one language for sure. When i look at some companies (Google ) i see that Python has the power i thought it would have in web. But i would...

THIS IS NOT VAGUE LOL
 
^ voted delete..
 
hard to imagine similar crap
morning, @Jimbo
 
11:37 AM
@GajusKuizinas probably ... but think you were told you'd be wasting your time, so you kinda chose to waste it ...
 
@JoeWatkins with expectation to make a change.. hopefully for the good.
 
some questions do not deserve an answer, and shouldn't get one, since the best is still devastating, for example, if I ask you the question "what is the best way to shoot myself in the face" I will end up with a big fucking hole in my face whatever ... this is one of those times where it's better that the question is not out there ...
 
Nice comment :D
I love those kind of comments.
Thanks!
 
@JoeWatkins part of those who ask that kind of question don't know they'll die, so an answer educating them may help if one has the patience...
 
^ lol
 
@TOOTSKI hey now, that's not opinion based at all :P
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Yeah :) ... no.
 
11:50 AM
@BenjaminGruenbaum be careful with @TOOTSKI (: when he's in the mood, questions are going to be deleted :p
 
I'm not asking if I should use NodeJS, I'm asking how one would use an app like structure for backend coming from a page like :P
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum gg on the comment :)))
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Actually maybe I just remove php tag.
> closed as too broad by George Stocker♦
Don't hate the player, hate the mod :P
 
But, it's aimed at people coming from PHP :P
 
I removed the message JIT :P
 
11:51 AM
It was even supposed to be Q&A, but that dude answered too fast and I gave up :P
wow, so old, 2012 :P
 
> Has little to no connection to PHP, require_once('inclues/db/connect.php'); is an insult.
:D
I removed the php tag.
 
> I have heard a lot over the internet that PHP is not a good tool to scale applications or build enterprise level applications
42
Q: To swap or not to swap, from CodeIgniter to Laravel?

w0rldartSo after working for a while with CI, I can say that it's a great framework that always helped me get the job done. Now, as I read https://www.pyrocms.com/blog/2012/11/foundations-for-our-future and agreed with what they said, I asked my self: Should I swap frameworks? From CodeIgniter to Larave...

Boost this one please.
It's tempting because Laravel is better, but...
NO MERCY
 
Also I f* hate both of them :D
/** Request & Response */
$request = Request::createFromGlobals();
$response = new Response;

/** Routes */
$dispatcher = FastRoute\simpleDispatcher(
  function (FastRoute\RouteCollector $r) {
    $r->addRoute('GET', '/user/{name}', 'User:Index');
  } , [
    'cacheFile' => CACHE_PATH . '/route.cache'
]);

$routeInfo = $dispatcher->dispatch($request->getMethod(), $request->getPathInfo());
What else do you need :D
Fast route is fast.
 
11:59 AM
can anyone have php sdk for google calender api?
 
@Sandeep yes, someone can.
 
Yes, one can have it.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Bro!
 
@TOOTSKI what? That's an honest answer.
 
I have downloaded from developers.google.com/google-apps/calendar/downloads but thats not good for
 
Someone can have a SDK for google calendar API
 
12:00 PM
calender
 
Oh, he meant for calender @BenjaminGruenbaum, not calendar.
 
Wait, now I'm confused.
 
@Sandeep that's so sad to hear :( How do you feel about downloading a "not good for" API?
 
12:02 PM
you have google calendar api php sdk?
then give me
 
@Sandeep what does that array of strings mean?
 
@Sandeep developers.google.com/admin-sdk/calendar-resource here, this is my API, I built it with jQuery.
 
can you have in php? :(
 
@Sandeep if you don't talk about your feelings, you're going to have psychological problems when you're older.
 
12:05 PM
Why is no one staring my link?
We're so mean.
 
No one have proper php sdk for google calendar api?
:( :(
 
Nope.
@JoeWatkins if these morons make >100k I'm going to stab my self in face.
 
Morning
 
moooooorning sunshine
Why the proper "morning"?
Is everything OK?
 
Accidentally typed it correctly
 
12:11 PM
:D
 
12:31 PM
Did anyone face similar problem?
1
Q: Impossible to un-star/un-pin messages for long list

Alma DoSO, I think there is a lack of tools to un-star messages. Currently, there is a way to do this: to select the corresponding link in the list of recently starred messages: But the problem is: if the list of messages can not be shown because of it's length, then it's impossible to un-star messa...

 
@PeeHaa Would u say its worth to use this socketo.me ?
 
Many people do
@SecondRikudo @cryptic where is 20563772 on the canonical list?
 
@AlmaDo just ask someone else… did you just want to unstar sometihing?
 
@bwoebi I want bug to be fixed
 
get a bigger screen. (or higher resolution)
 
12:41 PM
@AlmaDo Dupe of something I asked a long time ago. Not sure where that post is now because I don't have a meta se account
 
user895378
@JoeWatkins I'm about to get on the road for a six hour drive home. I'll give you repo access tonight.
 
@PeeHaa then, please, link it. Because I failed to find that
 
@PeeHaa your old mso account should have been migrated to mse...
 
^ this
 
I can't because I cannot log in
 
It wants me to login again with my openid provider which means first logging out of google to log in again using another account the one I use on so afte that i have to loginusing my real account again
 
äh öh üh
 
@bwoebi Yeah probably somewhere in there
 
@LeviMorrison My only feedback is that the section on Covariant is weak, particularly "Covariant return types are considered to be type sound and is used in many other languages" doesn't give an actual reason why it is required, other than other languages do it.
 
1:17 PM
@rdlowrey SUPER !!
 
@Danack Fair. I will strengthen that section.
 
Blargle.
@TOOTSKI *slow-clap* Well done sir. Well done.
 
@JoeWatkins Is today work day for you or why aren't you working on phpdbg?
 
@TOOTSKI Too obvious
 
at least in Luxembourg Easter Monday we can remain home…
 
1:27 PM
Real urls get truncated.
44 mins ago, by bwoebi
@PeeHaa http://meta.stackexchange.com/users/155197/peehaa … this?
 
Good mornink
 
@ircmaxell mohnin
 
what's going on?
 
@bwoebi working yeah
moin @ircmaxell
 
good morning, @ircmaxell
 
1:30 PM
@JoeWatkins oh okay…
 
This question is related to cakephp can you guys a look arround
0
Q: session write doesn't work id debug mode is set to 2

Rajeev RanjanEverything is running fine except when i set Configure::write('debug',2); in core.php I having function function _setLanguage($lang = '') { if ($lang != "") { $this->Session->write('languagevalue', $lang); } else { if ($this->Cookie->read('cookie_languagevalue') ...

 
@LeviMorrison Obviously, anyone who doesn't understand already why it's required, probably shouldn't be participating in the discussion of the RFC. Doubt that would actually happen though.
 
Hi everyone
 
@bwoebi There are no non-working holidays at the company (it's international, too many), you have certain amount of paid time off, use it at will.
 
@TOOTSKI meh okay
 
1:41 PM
@TOOTSKI there are no working days < ... > :D
 
@AlmaDo Wait, I confused myself now :D
 
^.^
 
V.V
 
@DanLugg Thank you, I believe I was the first to pull that stunt here certain time ago :P
 
Awesome. The two string cast implementations PHP uses internally don't work the same way
Stupid me for thinking it could be otherwise
 
1:53 PM
You got trolled by PHP again.
 
@NikiC so you should pray.. DRY, DRY, DRY, <....>
 
@NikiC ... two?!?
 
only two? :P
 
@bwoebi you think he's too optimistic?
 
@AlmaDo I'm wondering which two…
 
1:57 PM
@bwoebi :(
 
@bwoebi ZPP and (string)?
 
@ircmaxell no idea?
 
2:15 PM
If you are going by the PSR-0 standard and writing some little library is there any tips on coming up with a vendor name?
 
Wasn't PSR-4 overriding the PSR-0 standard? Can't remember...
Anyway, if on github, I'd have VendorName/Packagename. So, Jimbo/MyLib
@TOOTSKI Oh ffs, I clicked your link. I'll listen to it now -.-
 
2:30 PM
@Jimbo I was just reading that
I couldn't put the package in David\PackageName, or can I hmmm. Possible clashes what do you think @Jimbo
 
2:47 PM
@bwoebi I mean convert_to_string an make_printable_zval
Those are the ones that are supposed to be behaviorally identical
(Unlike zpp and whatever, which are different by design)
 
@David Usually your github username or whatever. They would use it without username e.g. use PackageName\Awesome\Sauce;...
 
@NikiC the different object casts?
 
@bwoebi yes
 
@NikiC Weird… The one cast fatals, the other throws a notice…
 
3:05 PM
Hi all
is someone here who knows smarty?
 
@David I use composer and the psr-0" : { "": "src/" } method. Never had any clashes from that..
 
@Jimbo please don't do that for any public projects
 
@ircmaxell Death ensues?
 
@Jimbo performance concerns, as it will try to look up every single class you load through your src/ directory.
 
Does anyone have any suggestions for libraries/frameworks to use only as REST API? Its a single page app, so I don't need a full backend MVC.
 
3:09 PM
@ircmaxell Yikes, I didn't know that. It's been the default for me for a while because it 'just worked'
 
@Jimbo the prefix is used to "disable the autoloader" for classes it can't possibly load
 
@ircmaxell I want to put a few little libraries I have into my vendor folder along with the other components I have from third party places, I need to come up with a vendor name but calling it David\Package wouldn't be good would it?
 
@David I just do the name of the library
I don't believe in the org prefix recomendations
 
Ok so you have no vendor name just the library?
 
correct
 
3:11 PM
I think I'll just do that. Unless you are developing the package with other people and have a name for your group/organisation it is hard to come up with a vendor name since it is just you
 
Is someone here who knows Smarty?
 
@David Just use your first pet's name followed by the name of the street you grew up on.
MaxMoote\Awesome\Sauce
 
@DanLugg That would be CleoKilcol
 
See? Done.
 
3:14 PM
@DanLugg That's an awful name
 
Don't blame me, it was your pet and street. :-P
 
Just call it "MyStuff"
 
What do you put down for vendor? DanLugg?
 
Nah, bracketworks.
 
@twiz What if some other idiot called it mystuff then we could have a clash
@DanLugg And what exactly is bracketworks? Does it have any meaning or sense to it?
 
3:16 PM
ok, call it "ShittyAssVendor", as you probably shouldn't be using packages from shitty ass vendors anyway...
If that clashes, I give up on PHP. haha
 
@David Not really, just a handle. I brand shit with it.
Just open the dictionary to a few random words.
Knucklesoup.
Pennytarp.
 
I'm looking around my room I see xbox, ibanez guitar, and tv. I will try and mix them up
 
stealing an idea from android... call it "com_myDomainName"
 
This shit is harder than the actual programming
 
> there are two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors.
 
3:20 PM
ok, literally just mash your keyboard, who cares
 
^^ says a guy with a name like "twiz"
 
Haha
 
haha see, I'm good at naming things
 
I'm gonna use my first name and then mix it with XBox and/or Ibanez
Davinez or Davox or somethin
 
Ectoplasmic Turbulence Fiddle
 
3:24 PM
@DanLugg Too late I've decided on Avinez
 
Narcoleptic Toothbrush Mechanic
 
@DanLugg SHOTS FIRED
 
lol
 
Just don't let @rdlowrey name any of your projects.
 
Anyone have any better suggestion than using Klein.php for building a REST API?
 
3:27 PM
@Danack Has he moved passed "A" yet?
 
Nope, doubt he ever will.
 
lol, so much for learning the alphabet
 
@David Project name?
What does your app/program do?
 
@SecondRikudo Deals with customer items like computers, phones etc that need to be repaired
 
@David Look up the latin work for Repair or Support
Apply some minor adjustments: Perfect project name.
 
3:32 PM
@David ComputerPhoneEtcRepair.php
 
@SecondRikudo But the thing is these libs I am using in the project are not directly part of the project. For example a router, dispatcher etc
I want to put them in the vendor folder but I need a name to put them under
 
@David Well then, those libs should not be part of the same repo
But different repos connected via git submodule
 
^^ or installed by composer via a separate local repo
 
@SecondRikudo Yeah but I need to come up with a vendor name for the router so it can be namespace VendorName\RouterName;
 
@David Look up the Latin word for Router or Route, apply some adjustments.
 
3:36 PM
@SecondRikudo Ok thanks. Naming things is a cunt
 
@JoeWatkins Joe, are you here?
 
@SecondRikudo But if I could come up with a good vendor name for myself couldn't I then do something like

MyGoodVendorName\Routing
MyGoodVendorName\SomeLib
Without having to get latin names or mix around the letters of the real name to get something relatively unique
 
@Ricalsin yep ... shoot ... might be delay ...
 
Have you used the new php-fpm to connect php versions to the apache 2.4 server?
I see where it's a 'listen = 127.0.0.1:9000' setting in the php-fpm config. Have you messed with it? I was wondering if you have some suggestions on making the connection.
It's no longer an external module now that they have this 'mod_proxy_fcgi' built into apache
MY MAIN QUESTION: Do you have a command you run to make a local server use a particular php version you built using the MULTI program which compiles thread safe binaries of php?
 
3:58 PM
@LeviMorrison Also presumably this "This allows an overrider to declare a return type that is a subclass of the original return type" should be more like "This allows an over-riding method to declare a return type that is a subclass of the original return type, or an implementing class where the original return type was an interface".
 
@Danack 'subclass' -> 'subtype' and it includes both.
 
cool
 
@twiz lol .. you are starting out with the assumption that klein.php is "good". While it is not worst routing library, that I have seen this month, it is still pretty bad. The would thing is monolithic ("closely coupled" does not describe it) and the extensive abuse of magic methods makes it a bitch to debug. Also, the way it gets configured, in a large RESTful system you will get buried in the route-to-executable bindings
 
> While it is not worst routing library, that I have seen this month...
^^ lolworthy
 
@tereško While it is not worst routing library, that I have seen this month <-- that's actually quite a compliment... :-P
 
4:06 PM
@ircmaxell having a 9-to-5 job lowers ones standards
 
@tereško Ah, yeah. Going good?
 
For the record: Ubuntu's latest upgrade finally installs an apache2.4.* version which REQUIRES a thread safe PHP installation because - for the first time - it does not run mpm_prefork by default.
It runs mpm_event , which is sort of a modified mpm_worker. The big issue is that the PHP version that comes with this ubuntu upgrade does not have a thread safe binary installed and it fails to parse php without giving a notice (aagh). Only when you reinstall the mpm_event module do you get the warning about php being non-thread safe.
 
@Ricalsin anyone running Ubuntu in production, with Ubuntu shipped versions of PHP, is asking for pain
 
@ircmaxell dunno. I had to work many late evenings and couple of all-nighters to get the current project on time.
 
@tereško eiw. Is that going to be a normal thing? Or a one-off?
 
4:09 PM
@ircmaxell Yes, I'm feeling it. Suggestion?
 
@Ricalsin VERSION=number ZTS=zts DBG=no-debug ./php.multi
 
@Ricalsin either custom-build, or a 3pd repo that stays reasonably up-to-date
 
I have never used apache and fpm ... that's strawberries and sausages if you ask me ... yuk ...
 
or use a proper OS which doesn't fubar every freaking library they serve
 
Are you guys suggestion Linux From Scratch?
 
4:10 PM
hell no
 
no, never, nobody ever is ...
 
should be a one-off, because project itself was a big-tome mess. After I had done the preliminary estimates, the requirements changed. But the estimate was not adjusted.
@Ricalsin no, but there are other distros not just "ubuntu" and "lfs"
 
@tereško well, fingers crossed...
 
rpm? I know there are others. Can you suggest something from experience?
 
"rpm" is not a distro
@Ricalsin do you even know what a "linux distribution" is ?
 
4:12 PM
@Ricalsin for the record, it is pointless to use fpm in that case, you are creating unecessary processes and wasting resources, if you are using a worker mpm, php will execute no faster at all using fpm than it will using the dso ...
 
@Ricalsin personally, I use CentOS for all of my production systems.
 
@ircmaxell thanks.... I've seen it around but didn't know it was much better than ubuntu
 
it's less about better/worse
 
ubuntu is made for desktop environments, aiming at userbase which is clueless or lazy or both
 
I'm about as anti-Debian (which Ubuntu is based off of) as you can get while still using it. It has a policy of patching libraries and applications to make them "behave more consistently". Which sounds like an awesome thing, until you realize that it really just forks everything in its repositories. And you can't really tell if a bug is Debian specific or a real bug, because they do stupid things
 
4:16 PM
in other words:
Ubuntu is the CodeIgniter of GNU/Linux
5
 
I appreciate the info. Unless you've been doing this for decades ... how would know?
 
@Ricalsin experience is the best teacher
 
@tereško That's not a suggestion.
 
.. dat youtube money
 
Klein just happens to be the only thing I've found that seems to be widely used and isn't a full blown MVC
 
4:20 PM
 
@tereško dude, I make basically nothing off of YouTube
I published my numbers
@twiz Silex
 
@ircmaxell I was just making fun of you
sry
 
@tereško :-P
$70... in 2 years...
 
@JoeWatkins Centos with a worker mpm is a good combination in your view?
 
CentOS + NginX + FPM is a good combination
 
4:24 PM
well, I would say that freebsd/nginx/fpm is a good combination too ... but with a slightly higher skill ceiling
 
@ircmaxell You can learn a lot of stuff before you come to understand the difference between ubuntu and centos
 
@ircmaxell Thanks, I'll try that out.
 
@Ricalsin I've maintained several packages that were "patched" by Debian maintainers
@tereško yeah, I'm partial against BSD, mainly because I've never had much of a great experience with it (only tried it a handful of times though, so likely me)
 
Don't use Ubuntu. If your choice is Ubuntu reach for raw Debian instead.
That's my recommendation on that specific topic ^^
 
@ircmaxell Okay, but you can put that combo up on AWS and still work with a ubuntu system on your desktop (for now). I've heard that nginX is a lot easier to configure than apache, but you loose the htaccess....
 
4:28 PM
@Ricalsin you want to loose htaccess. It's a nightmare for scalability, especially with cloud costing
 
does anyone know how i can do paypal integration for a shop, with options for visa, mastercard and american express.???

Thank in advance
 
@LeviMorrison I agree. And I say that while typing on an Ubuntu derivative machine ;-)
 
@Ricalsin I'm saying that apache and fpm is equal to apache and mod_php when apache is using worker mpm ... fpm and nginx would be the defacto standard these days ...
 
Bullspit and Frootloops
 
@ircmaxell My home server runs Debian, this laptop uses Ubuntu. ^^
 
4:30 PM
@JoeWatkins Okay. I appreciate that info. Thanks.
 
you probably shouldn't try to use a worker mpm if you do not have too ... and there isn't really a reason that you should have too ... the only good reason to have a thread safe php is pthreads, and there's never a good reason to create threads in direct response to a web request so there's no need for thread safe public facing installations of php, none ...
 
I broke my Debian VM because "I don't know what I'm doing"™
 
@averroken huh? paypal has you bounce to their page to do the actual payment, iirc
 
that's a silly default ...
 
@DanLugg it's moments like these when I remember "oh, there is a clone-option" .. and then cry some manly tears, because I have forgotten to clone the VM again
 
4:32 PM
@tereško lol I did clone it, I just haven't recovered it yet.
 
but i have searched on the site of paypal, but how can i do that ?
What is needed for that, i have never done before paypal integration
 
loldafuq!? I just got a notification reminding me to vote in the 2013 moderator election.
 
@averroken You just redirect to their page, passing the variables you already know (particularly the info about the items being bought, and the total). the variables have to have certain names, of course...but the docs should tell you where to bounce to and what to pass
 
@DanLugg I get them regularly in area51
 
ok, but i have seen what about tokens ?
what is that for a beast ?
 
4:40 PM
Plus, I was having a hard time getting real-time feedback on the process (buffer dumping, polling, etc) and thought pthreads could help with that as well.
@JoeWatkins It's not about responding to a direct response. I have a user-initiated process that takes about a minute to run and I was wanting to build a better way to handle it. I did not like the copy-on-write method of prefork processes because it would consume too much memory.
 
why would you allow a user to initiate a process ??
what if a million users show up ?
 
Well, that would be a nice problem. But each user has a limit on the processes they can run.
 
@Ricalsin that's built into your app?
 
Potentially, yes.
 
so ... no, then ...
 
4:45 PM
personally, i'd consider separating the long-running processes from the web server altogether
 
^
this is how we design apps ... we don't bundle everything into the apache process space, we seperate the backend from frontend services, using appropriate technology for both and that's usually php at the front ... and can be (ts) php at the back
 
here, we have a daemon listening to a beanstalk queue and firing off processes in response to messages sent from the web app
 
I'm executing a bash script with proc_open and reading a pipe.
 
yuk
 
I could avoid that by running it with php on the back ... but I would need multi-threading to not completely block the server - no?
 
4:51 PM
damnit tar
 
lol, I disarmed the bomb the other day!
 
tar -xzvf foo.tgz
^ done
 
tar --help
^ done :D
 
@Ricalsin you'd need a way to send messages to another process...that's about it, as long as you don't need to wait for the response.
 
I can avoid the need for a response, yes. It's not critical. But 'sending it to another process' is essentially forking. I'm back to copy-on-write and growing memory when a worker process would avoid that scenario. I am happy to be wrong here. I appreciate your willingness to advise.
 
4:59 PM
no it isn't
you send to the other process using IPC
 

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