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2:40 AM
@Girgias yes vm reentry limits make sense
 
 
3 hours later…
6:02 AM
posted on June 24, 2022

 
user19214413
6:37 AM
Not playing media files like mp3 mp4 and permission denied on apache server
On apache server I configured tomcat as proxy server that serves mp3 and mp4 from a folder named content. I have given 0755 permission recursively to all media files and changed owner group to root recursively. Media content is played on Firefox but not chrome and edge browser. I have added media type to httpd.conf file also.

AddType video/ogg .ogv
AddType video/mp4 .mp4
AddType video/webm .webm
Still not working. It says forbidden. You don't have permission to access folder on this server.403 error
 
8:42 AM
@JRL re operator overloading: An issue I have with commutative operators defined within a class is that the "left operand" gets to decide what happens and it's easy to accidentally break the commutative property. This is already a somewhat common problem with Java's .equals() method and inherited classes (accu.org/journals/overload/28/157/love_2794).
Has "allowing binary functions to be placed in infix position" been discussed or proposed before? e.g. Haskell style like this: 3v4l.org/EIN0a. One issue with that is, that precedence would not apply, but that can be solved with explicit parentheses.
 
@TimWolla No, but I can also not see that going anywhere.
 
Me neither, but personally I would be more receptive to that, than to operator overloading and both effecitvely operate (pun not intended) in the same "problem space".
 
9:19 AM
regarding namespaced operators, Postgres does actually have those
it's pretty pointless to reference them fully-qualified, because foo operator(mynamespace.+) bar is harder to write than add(foo, bar)
but it means you can import a set of overloads into scope by setting the "search_path"
I guess the equivalent in PHP would be something like use operator Acme\Overloads\+;
 
Hello guys
what's happening?
@Gordon my friend how are you?
 
although most of the time, you wouldn't bother, because they're despatched on type anyway, so you'd just define operator + (myschema.mytype, myschema.myothertype) in the default schema
 
9:36 AM
Which single word term would you use to mean an object of a specific class, without including inherited classes.

Right now, I have "Start date must be a literal DateTime or DateTimeImmutable object, object of class %s provided", but I don't like the word 'literal' here.
 
"non-derived"? "exactly"?
 
exact might work, but I'd love some input from native English speakers too
@IMSoP @Danack ?
 
I'd say that the correct answer is: This is a problem that shouldn't exist. For curiosity: Why can't you accept derived classes?
 
Because within the DatePeriod iterator, I need to construct DateTime/DateTimeImmutable objects which I can only do by copying internal data, which can't be recreated by calling the constructor of an inherited class. This data needs to be directly injected into a (new) DateTime/DateTimeImmutable object.
 
10:07 AM
how about "Class of start date must be exactly DateTime or DateTimeImmutable, object of class %s provided"
or maybe check what it is a sub-class of first, and specifically say "Start date must not be a sub-class of DateTime; must be either DateTime or DateTimeImmutable, object of class %s given"
 
I can do the latter, but then I'll end up doing recursion and dealing with interfaces etc. I don't want to make it complicated for just an error message.
I like the phrasing though, so I'll steal that
 
11:09 AM
@bwoebi Did you remove all the commentary from the Date/Time constants when you stub-ified them? I'm mega confused
 
11:20 AM
@Tiffany, ergonomic keyboards already exist for a long time now, they're not new at all. But the Dygma Defy does have a lot of LEDs. But I think it's just as useless as an ergonomic piano, or a piano-like device which has a lot of LEDs: youtube.com/watch?v=P6_u4cn5IYw . Those things won't help you create music better, just as the Dygma Defy won't help you to type better.
 
@bwoebi Never mind, they were just moved and my patch got messed up
 
 
3 hours later…
2:34 PM
@Derick you could replace literal with "non-inherited", but same as IMSoP, rearranging it is probably better. I got "Start date must be either a DateTime or DateTimeImmutable object, child classes not supported. Object of class %s was provided" before reading IMSoP's version.
The use-case does sound weird though. It implies that some stuff that is useful to do on those objects couldn't be done in userland.
 
3:22 PM
\o
 
o/
 
@Code4R7 it's an ergonomic mech keyboard, which are hard to find
ergonomic boards have been around for awhile yes, but ergonomic mech keyboards...not so much
 
@Tiffany ooo, what keyboard did you get?
 
haven't gotten one, but I'm tempted...kickstarter.com/projects/deilor/defy-keyboard
still using a full-size keychron with blues
 
@Tiffany It looks really nice. I've thought about the ergonomic route but always scared to take the plunge.
 
3:33 PM
and it's costly, which makes it harder to decide
 
Yea
My next keyboard will inevitably be another flat one. I wouldn't mind spending a lot of money on a nice ergo-mech keyboard since I spend a lot of time typing but I'm gonna have to test out the form factor on something less expensive first.
 
Flat as Logitech G915 ?
 
@ramsey There was one bit of your email that is probably too nebulous for internals. "Is there a reason we shouldn't go ahead and ..." I have surprisingly strong feelings that this pattern of conversation leads to poor decision making.
 
@CharlesSprayberry I have a custom keyboard I built. I love it.
 
@ln-s lol, probably not that flat. more flat like traditional, not cut-in-half-slanted-at-an-angle :P
 
3:45 PM
recenlty acquired G915, no regrets
 
@StatikStasis Nice! I've thought about going this route. Did you get everything as a kit or buy the pieces individual?
 
@Danack That pattern is that it turns the conversation around to put the responsbility of thinking why not to do something on a small group of people (possibly one), instead of having the default be "take no action, unless someone can think of a convincing argument of why something is the correct course of action".
 
I bought individual pieces after watching a lot of videos.
I'm still waiting on my final keycaps to come in from Germany from GMK. About a year and half wait post-order... it's craziness.
 
@StatikStasis Very neat. Kudos on the nice keyboard
 
=D
It's super quiet.
 
3:47 PM
That pattern is part of why the RFC process has been relatively successful for guiding PHP, at least compared to the 'process' before RFCs were a thing. It enforces the need for someone to make a convincing case for something, rather than someone having to make a case against something.
 
@CharlesSprayberry I actually streamed the entire build. This is at completion when I test typing on it... super quiet and great feeling. youtube.com/watch?v=iXOP_wRCj4g&t=31620s
 
o/
 
4:10 PM
Does anyone know why WordPress isn't showing up in the StackOverflow Survey anymore? (But Drupal, for instance, is? With way less votes)
 
@Girgias or even 'why does it exist' as in, what problem is it meant to be solving?
 
About my quesiton about WordPress not showing up in the survey 2022, I've asked on meta stackexchange meta.stackexchange.com/questions/379796/…
 
4:39 PM
@IMSoP "For instance, it should be possible to modify github.com/microsoft/msphpsql to define a PDOSqlServer class" - yeah you're right. Any ideas on how to do that 'properly'? A quick looks suggests to me adding an entry to the pdo_driver_t struct.
 
JRL
@TimWolla in practice, this should only be a problem for comparison operators, or the odd case where two different classes accept each other as operands but don't have a compatible implementation
for comparison operators, this can be further mitigated by using polymorphic handler resolution
 
4:59 PM
I'm a bit surprised how much resistance there is to the login system. What we have today is really quite terrible *_*
 
JRL
5:15 PM
@Danack As I detailed in an article I wrote earlier this year though, the drawback of that pattern is that it requires people to actually engage the discussion. It doesn't matter what the intent is about consensus, functionally right now it's impossible in many situations to even know what level of consensus you have prior to the vote because of lack of engagement.
However, I generally agree that it is preferrable for the default to be "do nothing unless someone makes a good argument for doing something"
just, there are drawbacks too
 
5:39 PM
@JRL yeah......but the only solution I can think of to solve that is to pay people to spend time on an RFC as otherwise people are spending time on something that they might not be in favour of for free. The lack of being able get everyone's opinion is true, but also means that people aren't forced to keep explaining themself over and over again, to someone who isn't listening.
 
JRL
For sure, I don't see a way to solve my point without asking people to spend far too much time on the same discussions over and over, which is obviously undesireable as well.
 
btw, I was holding off on talking to you about object operator overloading to respect what you said about doing it again after 8.2 was done (and also I've been feeling rundown for ages due to neck pain), but what I think you should do is:

i) drop the 'operator' syntax.
ii) Write some words that explain why Nikic was wrong about the ["operand position approach"](https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/116788). Or just accept that he has an annoying tendency to be right...
iii) Let me write the words of the RFC and handle most of the communication of why the RFC is awesome.
In my view, the operator syntax was the main reason the RFC failed. Because people didn't like that bit of the RFC, it meant people in favour of operator overloading in general weren't going to stand up and tell Ocramius he's not only wrong, but being wrong in an annoying way.
"in many situations to even know what level of consensus you have prior to the vote because of lack of engagement." - well, all you need to do is spend years talking to php internals voters, getting a sense of who has what experiences of different styles of programming, who can be persuaded to change their mind (and who are stubborn fucks), and which problems people in PHP land aren't even are aware of problems, and you can get a pretty good idea.

How hard could it be?
 
JRL
doing it without the operator syntax is definitely next, as I already promised you that I would. :) hadn't forgotten about that. as for the operand position thing, I think nikic is simply wrong, unless he's willing to budge on method overloading.
someone else is free to use my work as a basis for something like that if they want to, but i'm not going to propose static overloads without a position parameter unless its also done with method overloading like C#
in practice, static overloads in PHP for non-commutative operators would always result in the same 4-8 lines of boilerplate code to determine which operand is in which position.
 
Cool, but I don't have brain bandwidth to think today. It is Friday:
 
JRL
ha, fair. im also in friday mode tbh
 
5:54 PM
FWIW, I prefer the dynamic method approach for the same reasons. Method overloading would open up a whole crapload of interesting design potential, but as long as we don't have that, treating $a + $b as $a->plus($b) seems the most natural way to think about it.
 
JRL
oh, but also, just want to say that i have no problem with you writing the text of the RFC and taking lead on communication. wasn't going to "volunteer" you for that, especially on my first attempt at contributing. but i have no ego attached to being the "front man" for the RFC.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:30 PM
Does anyone have anyone have any words written about how callbacks are in coercive mode when called by the engine, even from a file in strict mode, and why that's surprising?
 
7:57 PM
huh?
 
@Crell Dan is talking about the fact that engine functions behave like if defined within files without strict_types=1 and the consequences of that (in particular that userland functions called from engine functions are passed args which are coerced instead of strict).
 
JRL
@bwoebi oh like usort? that's kinda wild. non-strict types has... caused many issues.
 
@JRL really?
 
@JRL Incidentally, I must commend your ability to remain calm and constructive and investigatory after so long, especially on Reddit. :-)
 
JRL
@bwoebi yeah. not huge problems, but i keep seeing it pop up as the root cause of things like the null coercion discussion.
@Crell it honestly hasn't been that hard now that i have a (somewhat better) understanding of how the politics of internals actually works
 
8:04 PM
The politics of internals works?
 
JRL
rather frustrating to be told the published answers for how internals works, then find out during voting that's a bunch of bullshit, lol
but, now i know
 
"Leaderless" organizations will always have that problem. Always.
 
JRL
leaderless organizations always have leaders, those leaders just lack accountability
that's how it always works
i honestly should have known that, it was the biggest problem with the occupy protests which i was involved with
 
jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm - One of the handful of essays that everyone involved in community management should read at least twice a year.
 

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