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JRL
8:22 AM
hmmm
top-posting in the ML is like a shibboleth for whether or not the person has spent time reading and participating in the ML
 
8:42 AM
and neither of these two had...
@Dharman There is a whole history about why we have these filters and flags, it would be great if you would try to find that discussion from when it was added.
 
I will try to dig it up later, but if it was long time ago, it might be difficult for me to find
 
JRL
it was honestly like a whole list
1. First post is long enough that most of the people who might be able to do something about it won't read the whole thing.
2. Is basically just someone asking everyone else to do work they want someone to do.
3. Focused on who is right instead of collaborating about making improvements.
I read it and my first thought was, "ah fuck, i'm turning into a cynical, crotchety 'internals' guy"
 
9:11 AM
@JRL Are you talking about my mail?
 
JRL
just the whole sanitize filters thread in general
i do think the first message was too broad
 
@Dharman Also FYI, I wrote most of it.
 
Ok, fair point.
 
JRL
or not... hmm... not framed for the type of conversation that would be productive i guess?
it's a very long list of all the reasons that things are bad, and it's not wrong
but the ML doesn't seem to do well with that kind of discussion
 
@Derick good to know. you are probably the best person to critique my stance then
 
JRL
9:16 AM
overall though, my comment about not knowing the list or how to participate was more aimed at the replies
as was point #3 & #2
 
9:28 AM
@Dharman It was long ago, so I don't remember why we have all these filters and flags, but many were either requested, and IIRC, the flags were just shared among all of them.
 
JRL
actually, it was either too broad, or not broad enough, lol
i hadn't even considered replying to it, because i have no input on the existing filters, don't really use them, i barely even remember they are there, so i don't worry about them being bad or wrong or anything
but a topic about what sorts of filters PHP should have in general? i probably would have replied to that
 
9:46 AM
or even better, should PHP even have sanitize filters at all. Although that ship has probably sailed as we already have them. :)
 
JRL
@Dharman indeed, getting rid of anything long existing is hard
i am still utterly shocked nikic got undeclared properties deprecated
 
I think this is important what you said. Many if not vast majority of PHP developers do not use sanitization filters and are not even aware of them
 
JRL
if i was more aware of them i would probably still not use them, because however unfairly, i would skeptical about trusting them (similar to mysql magic quotes)
basically, i would stumble on it, think "this is old like magic quotes, and that was dangerous, i'll find a library that does this" and move on without looking any deeper
 
so basically you are smart enough to know not to use them, but what about all those new to PHP who don't know these pitfalls yet?
I wouldn't mind if we deprecate most of these filters
 
 
1 hour later…
11:03 AM
@JRL Level of seniority is exactly equal to level of grumpiness. It's known. :)
 
11:37 AM
@JRL Welcome, you've been jaded by the internals list :D
@JRL He got a less useful (from the PoV of the engine) one accepted
 
 
1 hour later…
12:53 PM
@Dharman Instead of deprecating them, I think we should promote them, and when to use which ones.
 
 
5 hours later…
6:19 PM
@JRL other part that bothers me, they almost read like they're familiar with the maintenance burden in php-src..
which is basically your point #2: "Is basically just someone asking everyone else to do work they want someone to do."
side note, being familiar with php-src, or contributing to PHP, engenders collaboration, IMO... or at least contributing to open-source more than once
I'll note: I'm being a tad elitist. We want people who are familiar with writing PHP to voice opinions. However, to the point of #3: focusing on collaboration and improving the language, and not on who's right, should be the goal when those opinions are voiced.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:14 PM
Hello Developers
When should I use .gitattribute files?
 
8:43 PM
Based on code base from work, .gitattributes is used when project-level consistency needs to be enforced, e.g. line-ending type
 

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