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12:08 AM
And now I can show off to my friends with my cool new PHP email.
 
@Tiffany cool, I want one too, how did you get it?
 
12:20 AM
@mega6382 contributing to docs
 
hmm, cool, I have contributed to the docs before, maybe I should start again. It will be cool to have a php email. :)
 
Go through the bug reports on bugs.php.net, look for verified documentation bugs and get cracking
 
great, thanks for the tip
 
Oh, and you have to fill out a form requesting it
 
where is that?
the form
 
12:22 AM
The form has trick questions
Read it carefully ;)
 
cool, how much contributions do I need before filling that form?
 
I think the important thing is be active, but @salathe can correct me
 
@Tiffany great, will watch out for that
 
awesome
@PeeHaa when are you getting married?
 
 
3 hours later…
3:07 AM
We are not right now :-)
 
3:36 AM
We're all secretly hoping
 
:-)
 
4:04 AM
Evening
 
 
3 hours later…
7:03 AM
morning all ...
 
yoe
 
I youtubed a new thing, like a youtuber ... youtu.be/l-MHWPsJ5BI
 
> the final arrangement will come with a midi file
Let me just grab that midi and rape your classical piece :D
(at 145 bpm)
 
I haven't created one yet
 
I am patient :-)\
 
7:17 AM
I'm about third of the way through writing it in rosegarden, it takes me ages, it can only sample one hand at a time, some of the notation it creates is unlike anything anyone would write ... it's so laborious ...
 
@JoeWatkins Maybe it's time to move to windows and get a proper daw
They don't do tabs, but they do insta midi
With pretty much unlimited number of voices
 
the way it interprets music is quite strange, when you play the sample back it sounds exactly as you played it obviously, but when you read the music it creates for the sample, it wouldn't sound the same, most of the details of each note are stored but only some are converted into the notation
 
Is it not midi based?
But rather interpretation based on the sound?
 
it doesn't use midi to store sound, it retains more information than midi can store (that's expected)
 
Ah I see what it does
(I think)
 
7:22 AM
I don't know if I'm making it difficult, I've tried musescore and ardour and can't really get anywhere with either, musescore is even slower to operate and ardor doesn't really support exporting sheet music (I don't think)
 
It's something I have no idea about as I have no use for scores
 
I think most people don't, everyone is using these apps to learn the piano now and that just needs the midi ... but once you've learned, you want music ... and some pianists won't use an app ...
I actually doubted they could work, it sounded like expecting guitar hero to teach you guitar ... but they do work, I took an obscure chunk of something I've never played before, that wasn't easy and it taught me it in hours, minus any technique ... but the method seems to be effective ...
 
Yeah it is
 
7:47 AM
Hi! Since the rules say: "Don't ask to ask, just ask", here goes: what does one has to do to be able to get voting rights? People on internals say it's easy, so can anyone tell me more?
 
7:59 AM
@BrentRoose Contribute to php
And yes it is pretty easy
 
I figured as much :) I should have asked more specifically: where can I find documentation issues, and are there any guidelines on how to start fixing them?
 
the bug tracker is a good start bugs.php.net
You can start with the online doc editor
If you plan on doing more you can checkout the docs with svn
Also if you have pending patching in the doc editor it might be useful to announce it here so people can actually look at it and commit it
 
8:21 AM
@Jimbo they did get a new CEO last year. Might have to do something with it. IDK.
 
8:32 AM
> Sara Chipps is a JavaScript developer based in New York who
Ah, it all makes sense now.
PS - I was going to bring the whole of Sixt over to StackOverflow teams. Got a huge initiative going to replace confluence as much as possible and everything. I'm not supporting SE after what I read - bye goes their contract.
 
Could have told you that a year ago
Have you been using a different stackoverflow as the rest of us the last years? :P
 
9:18 AM
@Jimbo how does it make sense?
@Jimbo we are using notion as a wiki. it's not perfect, but good enough for our purposes
 
@Gordon Remember when I used to go into the JS room and tell them that JS is the worst language in the world and then they'd come in here and shout shit at us back?
The good old days.
 
9:39 AM
@BrentRoose have a look at the style guide too. It can be found if you dig under "Get Involved" on php.net
On my phone ATM or I'd link it
 
10:13 AM
Thanks!
 
@Tiffany Congrats on being a php people now!
 
10:39 AM
*phpeople
moin
 
morns
 
11:21 AM
o/
 
o/
 
cmb
\o
 
11:45 AM
o/
 
11:56 AM
\o
 
o/
 
🖕🤪🖕 #ccccombobreaker
 
Off with his head!
 
12:22 PM
fine
🖕 🖕 #ccccombobreaker
happy now?
 
Better
 
Hi there, I've a quick question. I'm currently adding some mutation tests to a package and there is one escaped mutant:
 
kill it with a baseball bat
that always worked in video games in the 90s
 
@AlfredBez Can I recommend contacting Professor Xaviar?
 
12:27 PM
I wonder if the cast to int adds any benefits in this if condition. If so, is it possible to write a unit test for this benefit? If not I will simply ignore this as a false-positive.
@DaveRandom lol
 
it doesn't look sane, no
the cast I mean
 
Well is the record an array, does it only contain ints, is it an object with arrayaccess etc etc
 
either way, I'm pretty sure that $expr < 1 will always coerce $expr to int implicitly
I'm not sure about when $expr is a float actually, but I can't think of a case where it would affect the result
 
@DaveRandom Yes, I think so, too.
The data comes from a CSV file, we load it into an array. We're not able to trust our users here, so it may contain a number, a string or even an emoji
 
well it will always be a string
in terms of the data type
 
12:32 PM
removing (int) makes the test still pass and doesn't produce the escaped mutant, I think I will just remove it
@DaveRandom oh, yep, you're right
 
I'm not sure if there's a difference in handling of invalid numbers from implicit vs explicit casts
I can't provoke any errors/discrepancies with a few random tests though
@AlfredBez I'd actually maybe add a check for ctype_digit() in order to spit out a different error message when the data is completely malformed
ffs
 
cmb
1:20 PM
@DaveRandom 3v4l.org/j0eNu
 
ahhh yeh, I though there was something
although it doesn't make a difference with a < comparison
 
Ok, I care only for things like this: 3v4l.org/7SOjG
 
2:30 PM
Any issues with this approach? 3v4l.org/lWH0C. Mainly using spl_object_id() to determine greater/lesser than for different objects.
I need an array_diff() that compares object instances (===)
 
@Bell Should be fine. As a matter of style, why not return spl_object_id($a) <=> spl_object_id($b)?
 
@Nikic: thanks for looking! Ah, nice. That's indeed more clear and then I can use arrow functions too :-D
 
@Bell If you are interested in being more efficient though, I'd recommend doing a from scratch implementation based on inserting $seen[spl_object_id($object)] = true or so. That way you can compute the diff in O(n) while array_udiff is going to be O(n log n)
 
@Nikic: interesting but I think I'll keep it for simplicity in this case :-)
 
3:05 PM
@NikiC Generics finished yet? :-D
 
Yeh @NikiC, god. It's simple, I want it on my desk by close of play tomorrow or I'm docking you a week's pay - that's right, the €0 you are currently getting will go down to €0.
 
3:23 PM
@Derick It's currently a bit stuck on REFACTOR ALL THE THINGS
 
Heh, tell me about it. I'm just about to release a new Xdebug that has the resolved breakpoints thing up to speed again
 
o/
 
3:48 PM
 
@Derick migrate away from it
 
Yeah, I need to. But to where?
 
Do you need it to be public? You could get more horsepower than you knew what to do with getting a refurbished server or a 3950x
Gitlab also does a free version that you can set up multiple runners on
 
@Derick github actions
It supports windows
 
@MarkR do you use php -S to run the docs on your system?
 
4:01 PM
Though I've only used gh actions for php code yet. windows worked fine though.
 
I need something with an API I can pull off the artifacts with
 
@MarkR I'm following along sammyk.me/how-to-contribute-to-php-documentation, I've reached the point where I've checked out the php.net site to my VM, and did a symlink to rendered-docs inside the php.net folder
 
Ah, I can't advise on that, I've never tried it.
 
Don't really want to set-up gitlab if I'm already using github - that'd seem odd?
 
4:04 PM
looking at the readme.md, I should do php -S localhost:8080 .router.php, I do php -S 10.0.37.151:8080 .router.php and the site runs, but I get to /manual/en/ and it returns "Not Found" (no actual 404 HTTP code from the web server)
 
What about if you go to a specific page in the manual?
 
does the same, I tried going to install.php
 
I'd try maybe dropping a random image into the root of the folder you symlinked and check if php serves it at /manual/whatever.jpg
 
er, wait nevermind
 
I'm not looking forward to having to write a docs service O_O blurgh
 
4:13 PM
 
@NikiC I've no idea which one to pick...: github.com/…
 
cmb
@Derick phpize && configure --enable-xdebug && nmake
takes a few seconds :)
 
sorry what?
I don't have windows locally
 
cmb
I think that should be possible on AppVeyor. Instead of building PHP each time from scratch, just fetch the binary packages and the devel packages, unzip, and build via phpsize.
 
I think I might have figured something out, thanks @MarkR ... looks like it's something to do with my environment I need to tweak
 
4:20 PM
@cmb I don't know how to do that
 
cmb
I'll try to provide a PR (or at least check that out generally); would IMO be useful for building PECL packages as well.
 
I know that building PHP each time is the slow part... but I tried using the cache, and it is just too big
 
@cmb I have some exts (php-ast probably?) where only the ext build is done
anatol did that for me
 
that looks like perl :D
 
5:01 PM
I've checked around and don't see a clear answer. With respect to SemVer 2.0.0, if a composer library is at v1.2.3, when updating the require php 7.1 -> 7.2 in a composer, does the library version get bumped to 1.3.3 or 2.0.0. All is assuming no new public API changes are introduced.
 
5:18 PM
I filed bug 79132 today. Not sure if it should be marked as private or not (perhaps not). TL;DR is that PDO execute() re-uses values from earlier calls if parameters are missing, at least when called on the same statement (I haven't checked across statements). So data from one query goes into another.
 
cmb
5:55 PM
@Bell did you check also with other drivers (e.g. SQLite3), or is this maybe solely related to MySQL?
 
@cmb: I only tested on MySQL
 
cmb
thanks! With mysqlnd or libmysqli-client (see PHP info)?
 
@cmb: mysqlnd
 
cmb
thanks
 
6:26 PM
morning
 
6:51 PM
Why does this happen? 3v4l.org/OlCfc
 
Because that's how it works
It doesn't actually resolve anything
 
that's interesting
 
The word you are looking for is surprising or stupid or weird :P
 
@PeeHaa I'll opt for sensible.
 
It's not sensible in any way shape or form :D
It might be useful though
 
7:01 PM
@PeeHaa useful is usually sensible
 
It makes perfect sense
 
@MarkR please, explain
 
@bwoebi Calling something class name resolution and not really doing that is not
It's surprising to everybody when first encountering it
 
@PeeHaa It's class name resolution as long as you pass a class. If you don't pass it a class... it's undefined behavior.
 
a) you don't want to preload everything and b) if you tried to instantiate a class from it, which wasn't already defined, you'd have to define it before you could use it, creating an infinite circle of doom
 
7:03 PM
So not sensible
If you have a typo you do not get an error
It's just weird and unexpected what it does
 
@PeeHaa It's weird that x++ + ++x does not have a sequencing point in C … well no it is not really. If you do stupid things (like typoing) you shall be prepared to expect weird things to happen. Warnings and errors are just a courtesy of the compiler.
 
The truth is that it is unexpected for almost everybody
Which means everybody else is stupid or it is just that surprising
 
Ok, just have finished my binding to the native PHP AST for the Z-Engine ) github.com/lisachenko/z-engine#abstract-syntax-tree-api Tomorrow will be the next part: integration with zend_ast_process hook, it will give control from PHP to the internal AST of included files
 
7:20 PM
@JesseRushlow semver allows dependencies to be upgraded in minor version so no need to release a 2.0
7.2 would also allow you to add argument types (but no return types) without BC break
 
7:52 PM
That was my initial thought as well. But is the platform (PHP) really considered a dependency in the same sense that say, symfony/dotenv would be. As bumping the php version would no long allow one to continue using the package if they were still on 7.1..
 
8:08 PM
congrats @Tiffany
I have been trying to get my name as well, but @salathe has been cock-blocking me for 6 years
 
I like how you tagged him so he'd know you said it :p
 
 
1 hour later…
9:16 PM
@JesseRushlow composer will just use a version number lower, and yes PHP is a dependency in the same sense as anything else
 
@Girgias Thanks, doctrine-project.org/2017/07/25/… the last paragraph cleared things up for me as well.
 
No worries :)
 
@mega6382 There's also this 3v4l.org/mWi2Y
 
lol
it keeps getting worse
 
I wonder if it creates that class
Oh no it doesn't
Even worse, there's this 3v4l.org/V9Urs
It would seem that ::class doesn't ever reference a real class lol
 
9:37 PM
The example you gave there is one of the reasons it is why it is
 
So that it doesn't load a class it doesn't actually need?
 
@PeeHaa @mega6382 @Alesana This is actually handy when declaring class aliases: 3v4l.org/T0XGV
 
@Trowski My\Enormous\Package ʘ_ʘ
 
@Trowski It's handy for a lot of stuff
That is indeed a good example
 
hmmm, interesting, that is indeed a good example
 
9:51 PM
@Alesana It's a bit unwieldy and dependency management can make it hard.
 
QA walks into the bar. QA jumps into the bar. QA sneaks into the bar...
People, you never echoed Some\Name::class? :)
 
When I use ::class I'm 99% of the time making either a class map, or checking an instance type.
 
DI config
 
10:07 PM
Aye. I reaallllly don't want PHP checking if all those classes exist whenever I hit a script which happens to contain a few thousand of them.
 
My point was that it is badly named :-)
And doesn't do what it says on the box
 
Why..? It's the fully qualified name of the ... well... ::class
 
But it's not
Could as well be a function or a const
Or nothing
:-)
 
They have their own tables
 
That doesn;t matter
::class is unrelated to any of that
As in I can just do echo myfunction::class;
 
10:12 PM
Yes you could, but equally you can have a function called myfunction, and a class called myfunction
 
Yes?
:P
Not sure what you are getting at :)
 
Thus myfunction::class could quite legitimately relate to class myfunction { ... }
 
Yes I get that, but I don't see your point
 
I don't know how better to explain it.... ::class just means treat the proceeding tokens as the name of a class, expanding out as necessary to take into account use statements.
 
Yes so fully qualified name
Whether it is a class or not
 
10:15 PM
Correct, because it would have to be autoloaded to know if the class existed or not, and that doesn't happen at compile time.
 
I get all of that
I understand how it works
Which again is not the problem I have with it :-)
 
mkay, I'm just lost for what else to say. To me, knowing how it works is the answer to why it works.
 
I know why it works
I never questioned that
The only thing I questioned is the expectation from users (especially given the name)
 
Is the behavior documented?
 
IIRC it's somewhere somewhat hidden
As in not easy to find
 
10:34 PM
@cmb I got it all working, including tests, but I am getting a weird error that I can't track down: ci.appveyor.com/project/derickr/xdebug/build/job/…
 
I need to create a physical todo list of stuff I want to do for docs. Maybe open bugs and assign them to myself?
Or is that overboard?
 
If they are actual bugs you can add them to the tracker
Or you can just write it down somewhere and make the changes if you are going to do it anyway :)
 
I'll make a gist when I get home
 

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