« first day (2168 days earlier)      last day (2771 days later) » 

@PeeHaa it scored a troll upvote
 
Yea was just laughing at that too :P
 
> You are big assholes with your shit PHP
guy on sec list loosing his shit over bc
 
lol
link?
 
is private list
 
6:07 PM
You are big assholes with your shit private lists
 
hehehehe
 
Hello,

You are big assholes with your shit PHP

If you scho rausbringt ne new version, then, makes it at least that this is also backward compatible.

It can not be but that WordPress websites stop working just because they are not compatible with your shit.

Same goes for a Vielzahlö from WordPress plugins that no longer run,

What you are on a sick bunch

I'm pissed.

Overtime ohen ende.wegen euerem dirt.

Peter
 
hey, if it wasn't for shit then assholes would have no purpose, would they?
 
@JoeWatkins hahaha golden
Different peter btw. Not me.
 
Hey at least were big assholes and not little ones....
 
6:08 PM
@JoeWatkins All I read was "WordPress ... shit"
 
@JoeWatkins I recommend he move his wordpress sites off of PHP
 
@Sherif that's basically the gist of it ...
 
security@ is a fun list sometimes.
 
Hallo,

Ihr seid große Arschlöcher mit eurem scheiß PHP

Wenn ihr scho ne neue version rausbringt, dann sorgt wenigstens dafür dass diese auch Abwärtskompatibel ist.

Es kann doch nicht angehen, dass Wordpress webseiten nicht mehr funktionieren nur weil diese nicht mit Eurem scheiß kompatibel sind.

Gleiche gilt für eine Vielzahlö vom Wordpress plugins die nicht mehr laufe,

Was seid ihr nur für ein kranker Haufen

Ich bin stink sauer.

Mehrarbeit ohen ende.wegen euerem dreck.

Peter
 
Yes @salathe. Take your WP installations elsewhere!
 
6:10 PM
not a fan of private lists either, there are also private bugs on bugsnet ...
all very shady ... but necessary, I guess ...
 
Yeh sec kinda had to be. Sucks if nothing happens with them though
 
it's extremely active
bad and good, but a decent amount of effort goes into that for sure ... and it makes a lot of noise ...
 
Functions are used against code repetitions or for making it more beautiful
?
 
that's not a real question ...
 
what is a real question?
 
6:17 PM
@yessure code that does not repeat itself is more "beautiful". And when people say "beautiful" or use similar hyperbolic adjectives to describe code, they mean it is more readable. (One of the properties of) well written code is code that is easy for humans to read.
 
@JoeWatkins uuuuh … don't feed that into google translate. … oh you already did :-/
 
what do the parts that google failed to translate mean?
 
@JoeWatkins Heh, I thought that's how the mail actually looked
It's even funnier that way :D
 
@PaulCrovella "Wordpress" and "shit". That's all you need to know.
 
I.e. someone who doesn't speak english send you a mail via google translate
 
6:46 PM
Noite all o/
 
Evening.
 
evenings
 
7:04 PM
evenin
 
you feel any better @tereško?
 
\o
 
yes, yes I do
thank you for asking
 
great
 
Anonymous
7:08 PM
Yahoo just announced 500 million users data has been stolen \o/
 
@JayIsTooCommon Cheee... why am I not surprised?
heh
I was actually one of 3 engineers to warn them about this back in 2014.
Yahoo corporate's response was literally: "We know. We don't care."
 
Anonymous
Really? Were you a yahoo employee?
 
I was working at Tumblr at the time. It's owned by Yahoo, parent company.
This was during heartbleed.
 
Anonymous
What was the flaw?
 
7:14 PM
We created a proof of concept once the zero-day was out and demonstrated that all of Yahoo's mail servers were still vulnerable. Corporate ignored it.
Tumblr patched openssl within 6 hours of heartbleed being made public and yet Yahoo still failed to do anything about their mail servers for weeks.
 
Anonymous
Well, they're feeling it now
 
oh it says "a state-sponsored hacker" did it
 
Really there was a company that big that didnt fix heartbleeding instantly?!?!
 
Anonymous
Lol "users affected will be emailed" two years after the attack..
 
@JayIsTooCommon It is Yahoo after all... Nothing less could be expected from them.
 
7:20 PM
@Sherif where do you work now?
 
@BlunderCode I mostly work on @PeeHaa's mom.
 
@Ekin which state?
if you say "Russia", will probably guess that you are referring to USA election-related leaks
 
the article I read didn't mention, though I wonder now too
 
@Ekin Isn't "state-sponsored hacker" just lingo for "it was really a script kiddie, but this way we look less incompetent"?
 
@NikiC No, it really was state sponsored. I can't say who, but I do know.
 
7:29 PM
it kinda depends
 
@NikiC heh, that's what I assumed first, but then it can be a govt supported group doing it or something similar
...which seems to be quite common
 
@Sherif What was the why?
 
@bwoebi Unfortunately I can't disclose that part, but I can tell you it wasn't the webmail loginthat was vulnerable to heartbleed.
 
@Sherif No, the question was, why didn't they care?
 
I'm a bit sadistic. I know people that still use yahoo mail, didn't want to switch to gmail when it became the big thing. And even though Yahoo is going by the wayside, they still latched on. So, I'm a tad amused because those people are undoubtedly either shitting bricks, or are pissed off.
 
7:40 PM
@bwoebi For reasons I can't disclose under my NDA :/
 
@Sherif Okay.
 
Probably money-related.
 
Why are NDAs even a legal thing… pfff…
 
@bwoebi Because lawyers need to eat too
 
Something something trade secrets
 
7:43 PM
@Tiffany I think the world could work a bit more efficiently if there were more exchange of knowledge…
 
@bwoebi I doubt NDAs are the problematic part there
 
@Sherif It's not like NDA violations would be the major part of lawsuits…
@NikiC possibly not.
 
@bwoebi You've never met an attorney at Oracle, have you?
:p
 
@Sherif no, and I don't wish either to.
 
Wasn't half their lawsuit against Google based on the violation of an NDA by a, Google turned, former Oracle employee.
 
@Sherif dunno. It's all big company suing each other bullshit.
somewhat deplorable…
 
@bwoebi When you get big you have a lot to lose, I guess?
 
@Sherif I mean, they end up just redistributing money ending up with a net zero largely?
at the expense of small companies being crushed under these lawsuits…
 
Yea, that's business for you. Someone finds a turf and wishes to control it before anyone else gets a piece.
Greed, greed, and more greed.
 
@bwoebi I think they are fine for certain uses. I'd need more context on why you think they should be outright illegal.
 
7:52 PM
@Sherif greed is one thing. resulting in net zero is pointless
 
@bwoebi Zero sum games are greedy people who are also ignorant.
 
For instance we get pre-public knowledge about hardware from Intel and Dell. It's important to not leak that stuff until it is public for a variety of reasons.
 
@LeviMorrison why?
 
@bwoebi Because when that knowledge can result in a harmful outcome to the end-user by the competitor, it's necessary.
 
Why is it important that it isn't leaked or why do we get pre-public knowledge?
 
7:54 PM
@LeviMorrison the former
@Sherif like?
 
If your competitor can use inside knowledge to "game the system" in a way that results in the end-user being harmed, it's knowledge you shouldn't disclose.
 
The product can actually change at release. For instance the Xeon Phi technology actually shipped with more cores enabled than was previously thought would happen.
 
@bwoebi Imagine if Google gave you their search ranking algorithms. How many people do you think might use that information to try and game their search results to show up at the top of Google for bad reasons?
 
That particular case wouldn't have hurt, but imagine if fewer cores were enabled.
That's a case where the company would be hurt and it has nothing to do with competition.
 
@Sherif instead former google employees are hired for SEO by big companies dominating the search results? They don't even need to disclose their knowledge, just optimize the particular issues.
 
7:58 PM
@bwoebi With the knowledge of how to beat the system for evil we are all worse-off.
If you play by the rules, fine. You deserve to win.
But if you know how to cheat and get away with it... you're probably using that information for all the wrong reasons.
 
@Sherif well… when is more profit a wrong reason for a company?
 
@bwoebi I think you're conflating two different objectives there. The bottom line is always important to a company, of course. No one is denying that. However, trust and making sure the end-user is safe are equally important in order to continue a sustainable business model.
Think of how many other companies out there that do advertising dupe their end-users in an evil way compared to what Google does?
 
@LeviMorrison It would be a whole new system. Today if you announce something/is leaked, you are really held to your expectations. Without NDAs it maybe is much more common and it won't make much difference.
@Sherif I … am not sure what google really does.
 
@bwoebi At the very least you know what they don't do, which is try to trick you into viewing ads or visiting links you didn't want to visit in the first place.
I'm specifically talking about Google the search engine in this context, not Google the company and all of its broader practices.
There were plenty of search engines out there at one point that didn't make it clear whether a search result was a paid advertisement or a higher ranking search result.
That's an example of evil, in my opinion. Why deceive the end user? Advertise, fine, but let them choose knowingly.
 
@Sherif That's what you have laws for, to be forced to disclose such things.
 
8:06 PM
@bwoebi There's no law that forces you to disclose something as an advertisement on your website.
 
@Sherif in US maybe not
 
Those kind of bylaws only come into play when what's in question can be perceived as legal or medical advice, as far as I know.
@bwoebi Well, these were all US companies.
 
@Sherif with presences in other regions too.
 
@bwoebi Well, now we're bordering on international law. Who has jurisdiction over the Internet really? The company would have to be operating in that geographical jurisdiction to be subject to its laws.
I don't know what laws are out there that these companies were subject to if they were operating outside the US, but at least here this was the case and back in 2002-2005 there were a lot of shady things going on with search engine advertising that I recall.
 
@Sherif yeah well… international law is something quite … fragile.
 
8:09 PM
Yahoo, for example, made a lot of shady calls there and Google advised them not to do so.
Because if you really don't want a zero sum game then you don't want to saturate the market with a product nobody wants.
 
@Sherif … or hide the questionable parts so subtly that the user doesn't notice they don't want it…
 
The point is... confidentiality is sometimes necessary in order for a business to protect its end users. Can it be used for evil? Sure! But what can't?
 
@Sherif I'm not arguing about protecting end users.
 
@bwoebi Well, how do you protect an end user if you can't protect the knowledge that could be used to harm them?
Think of a pharmaceutical drug, who's proprietary formula is disclosed by one of the company's chemists to the public. Someone takes that formula and uses to engineer a knock-off drug and sells it on the black market, but they make it addictive, or screw up the formula and make it lethal. Is it morally just to protect that knowledge under NDA?
 
Anonymous
@PeeHaa may not make it on tonight
 
8:15 PM
@bwoebi I'll let you decide
 
@Sherif … That's why you don't sell your stuff overly expensively.
 
@bwoebi That's arguing a different point. Imagine the research cost to develop this drug was in the millions. Is it overly expensive to expect just compensation for that upfront investment? That's a different moral dilemma entirely.
 
@Sherif And black market. I really can't tell you anything from experience about it as never being in contact with it at large. I have no idea.
 
@bwoebi Well, you're trying to solve one problem by causing another. There must be some balance there. Surely, you have a right to own your own proprietary knowledge, no? Why would an organization not be entitled to the same thing?
 
@Sherif these are reasons why we need some sort of social economy to guarantee cheap availability of essential drugs etc.
 
8:20 PM
@bwoebi Well, yea, but that's still a different problem. Even if all drugs were cheap what happens when the greedy evil entity that gets ahold of this information is able to tweak that drug and make their's more addictive, in order to gain hold of the market and up their price?
You will never be able to guarantee a cheap price for anything in this world so long as someone can manipulate the economy to increase demand and reduce supply. Laws of economics.
If we could solve this we wouldn't have poverty.
 
hi guys
 
@Sherif thus, goal achieved then? :-P
 
@bwoebi What goal?
 
@Sherif not having poverty ^^
 
huh? I'm so confused right now.
What are you saying man!?!?
 
8:25 PM
doesn't matter
 
I'm wondering if maybe in PHP 8.0 we can deprecate passing too many arguments and func_get_args.
 
no.
 
If we do this then we can support arity overloading in 9.0.
 
Why would I want that?
 
Lot's of people want arity overloading; dunno why you might want it :D
 
8:27 PM
I feel like they do for the wrong reasons / they are used to it from other languages
 
@bwoebi Because then PHP can be more like C++ [scorn]
 
I know I'd use it; map($callback) vs map($callback, $data) would be useful since we don't curry.
(or have decent partial application support)
 
@Sherif I totally think we need reinterpret_cast<> in PHP!!!
 
(or have short closures)
 
@LeviMorrison well, that's easy to switch on with func_num_args()?
 
8:29 PM
@bwoebi that one is not.
 
hmm?
 
Because the return type is different and you can't mix return function(); and yield $key => $f($value)
Need sub-functions with automatic dispatch from a facade... hey! That sounds like overloading!
 
you can mix return (function() { yield ...; })() and return function() { }
 
@bwoebi But map($f, $data) doesn't return a function. It yields values.
map($f) would return a function.
 
@LeviMorrison right, the first case is returning a Generator
hence the (...)()
 
8:32 PM
You also can't declare the different return types based on the different arities.
 
@LeviMorrison That's a good argument against doing that.
One function name, one parameter list, one return type.
 
Anyway, even if we don't support arity overloading if we have different behavior with internals and userland functions with regards to the behavior when too many parameters are passed.
Unifying internal and userland behavior should be a general goal anyway.
 
@LeviMorrison I agree. And we should remove this too many parameters check from internal.
 
Except that way isn't useful for new features.
And we have explicit variadics now.
 
Then I finally don't need to wrap internal functions like function($s) { return strlen($s); }, but "strlen" is fine now
 
8:34 PM
(arrow functions, cough)
 
@LeviMorrison the point is about the case where you do not know the callee.
Variadics are fine when you have knowledge of callee as a caller.
 
($s, ...) => strlen($s)
 
@LeviMorrison That's just pointless.
 
It's not.
 
It is.
 
8:36 PM
strlen($a, $b) is pointless.
 
sure
 
That's a definite error.
 
$a = "strlen"; … something in between … $a($b, $c); isn't.
 
@Sherif had to run for a sec I missed a bunch did we find out if @Sherif is the state sponsored hacker or not??
 
@bwoebi ... yes, it is.
 
8:37 PM
@Levi I am fine with restricting direct calls.
But not dynamic calls.
 
Calling a function with the wrong arity, even with a dynamic call, is always an error.
It's a mismatch between how it is defined and used.
 
I disagree.
A callback shall be free to not require the arguments it doesn't take usage of.
 
It's a mismatch of expectations.
If you pass arity of 2 and it only uses arity 1 how do you expect the right thing to be done?
 
I, again, disagree. The caller expects that it can pass its arguments. The callee expects to receive all its required arguments at least. There is no expectation of the caller that the callee will use all its arguments.
 
If the caller expects you to use 2 and you use 1 that is a mismatch of expectations.
I definitely disagree here.
My guess is that you think it's useful to ignore $value, $key type pairs because of our badly designed libraries in the first place.
You've grown accustomed to it.
 
8:46 PM
@LeviMorrison The caller doesn't expect you to use the 2. It expects you to do what you should do and provides you 2 arguments. Whether you need the 2 or not, is not mattering to the caller.
 
Name a language other than JavaScript where this works the same way.
(Oh man, JavaScript is really awful)
 
@LeviMorrison C.
 
(Didn't pass enough parameters? We'll just assign them undefined and move on)
@bwoebi Example? Because I'm fairly certain this is not true.
 
@LeviMorrison at the very least for functions without parameters. and not marked (void)
 
You mean ones like void printf()?
That's explicit, not implicit.
 
8:49 PM
@LeviMorrison I mean like void foo(void) {}
@LeviMorrison printf is explicitly variadic? … I mean to void foo() {} you can pass as many params as you want
 
Yes, the function explicitly supports it.
$ vim tmp.c

tmp.c: In function ‘main’:
tmp.c:6:9: error: too many arguments to function ‘foo’
  return foo(1, 2);
         ^
tmp.c:1:5: note: declared here
 int foo(void) {
     ^

shell returned 1
 
@LeviMorrison yes, you put a void there in the param list … I mean without.
 
Then you've explicitly allowed arbitrary parameters.
It doesn't happen for abitrary functions.
 
@LeviMorrison Also, the thing still works fine if you do an explicit cast of a function pointer
 
C let's you do whatever the heck you want if you cast. That doesn't count in my book because it's explicitly subverting the type system.
Again, explicitly.
 
8:53 PM
Anyone have more feedback on wiki.php.net/rfc/namespace_scoped_declares? Otherwise I'll send to list
 
I mean I don't like it but no more feedback; just the usual "strict_types being defined away from locations that are actually strict".
 
@LeviMorrison Well, I'd rather say it's implicit … and adding void explicitly forbids it. (in particularly considering how this evolved historically.)
 
@NikiC maybe remove 'dynamic_object_properties' => 0 as that could distract people by someone talking about the 'obvious' conspiracy there is to do that. Maybe replace it with 'strict_comparison' which has already been raised on the list.
 
What do you guys think about strict_comparison anyway?
 
Not sure it's the right thing.
 
9:00 PM
My knee-jerk reaction is that it is applied too widely. I think strict operators >==, <== would be better if we decide we actually need it.
 
@LeviMorrison That works for greater/less or equal - but I can't think of what a symbol choice could be for just greater/less.
 
Fair.
`>
 
What I'd generally like is a half strict mode where strings aren't autocast to zero if not a number…
 
0 `> '0'
 
8 hours ago, by Paul Crovella
 
9:03 PM
We should be able to use backtick in something that requires juxtaposition (not saying this is a great idea but possible)
$foo `< $bar
 
The primary issue of the strict/weak string comparisons is really the cases of $nonNumbers == 0
I seriously think we're trying to solve the wrong problem with this all strict thingy.
 
I honestly either care enough to encode actual types or don't care and do loose.
 
I went to college to be a tightrope walker, it was an online course.
2
 
@NikiC I think I like the alternative:
> The main alternative to this proposal I see is the introduction of a “proper module system”, which would allow per-module specification of declares, similar to package attributes in Java. However this is just a very vague concept in my mind and would certainly require major language changes.
But unfortunately have nothing helpful to add to make that a reality.
I've increasingly wanted "package" visibility or something similar, as well it seems like we could squeak out more optimizations when examining a whole module instead of each file.
(Especially with the SSA stuff)
 
@LeviMorrison Yeah, that's basically my problem. I have no idea how this would actually look like ^^
 
9:09 PM
My best-guess is that it's basically a tar with a special configuration file.
Exactly what goes in there... I dunno.
Maybe symbols it exports... maybe some way of tracking dependencies...
 
but tar implies a build step?
@Danack not sure on that, because I'm personally much more skeptical about strict_comparison than I am about dynamic_object_properties, so that might backfire ^^
 
@NikiC Maybe a specific directory format with a spec file, which could also be tar'd.
Honestly looking at other language's "library" or "module" concepts... large chunks of them have to do with composer.json type stuff (dependencies, version info, etc).
There are some language level things too, but most of it seems more aligned for distribution/installation.
Some have an idea of an 'exports' or 'symbol list'.
So you can have source files in your package that aren't "exported".
The build tool will obfuscate the private symbols to unique names that a user would be unable to define.
@NikiC I think the idea of a "library", "package" or "module" often includes some sort of "build" or "publish" step.
It's what makes it shift from "a bunch of source files" to a "library"/"package"/"module".
 
9:34 PM
In DDD bounded contexts integrate at the application layer. Say you are using RabbitMQ for messaging. The demo app on Github for Implementing Domain-Driven Design puts the event listeners/subscribers in the infrastructure/ports directory. I thought they should go in the application directory
 
9:52 PM
Hi everybody, do someone know a good database with all Continent / Country / State / Sub_State / City ? If not I found a CSV file that I try to sort to convert it into SQL and I think that all my code is good, there's just too many entries (102851) that php run endlessly... I had to add memorry and cpu to my vm to try to accelerate the process, but still way too slow... I know why it's slow but I can't figure out how to optimize it...
No interest :P Okay ! I added 10G of ram to the VM and 2 VCPU... with 2G 2VCPU it was timeout after 30minutes... let's run it again with 10G
 
@JonathanLafleur you should split the file into smaller chunks of work to do, and could then have multiple worker threads/processes running at once.
Or just use bulk insert commands like:
469
A: Inserting multiple rows in mysql

Nicola Cossu INSERT statements that use VALUES syntax can insert multiple rows. To do this, include multiple lists of column values, each enclosed within parentheses and separated by commas. Example: INSERT INTO tbl_name (a,b,c) VALUES (1,2,3), (4,5,6), (7,8,9); Source

 
Actually I'm only building an array structure to convert into sql after, I havn't even tried MySQL right now
 
Then, speaking frankly, your code must be bad.....there's no way that should run 'endlessly'.
 
when I say endlessly it timeout :P because it's still working
But yes, I know there's a flaw in my code, but can't imagine how to fix it
The CSV file is actually like this :

geoname_id, locale_code, continent_code, continent_name, country_iso_code, country_name, subdivision_1_iso_code, subdivision_1_name, subdivision_2_iso_code, subdivision_2_name, city_name, metro_code, time_zone

So I create multiple array with all reference to "name" of them parent, then join them on a bigger array, but has I type this I ask why do I join them if I can just work with them separately ... i'll try that tonight and see..
Sometime just speaking with ppl help thinking out loud :P
 
10:12 PM
Someone's never heard of LOAD DATA INFILE, I see.
.. oh wait, looks like someone already pointed that out, but you ignored it anyway :p
I had to :/
Yes, Joel! And they're using your site to learn how to do it badly too!
 
10:47 PM
2
A: Laravel - include file only if screen size > 768px

SherifThere's absolutely no point in trying to do it this way, because this entire approach is antiquated. Sure, you could pass the $(window).width() from the client in javascript back to the server in PHP, but then what happens if the user resizes their window? This is why, today, what is encouraged,...

I blame Laravel for sucking at everything and make everyone that uses it suck as well.
 
@Sherif And because it sucks, everyone who sucks is using it…
 
@bwoebi but but but.... I want them to suck less :/
 
For everyone you make suck less, 10 new sucky devs appear
 
@Sherif I wonder, what are "laravel if statements"
 
@tereško That's a blade template. It just literally translates into PHP code.
 
10:53 PM
it was a rhetorical question
 
which flag I need to use for this?
 
@tereško ahhh... joke -> head -> over
 
it's old, popped up on php questions that "needs answers"
 
@Ekin I used "my code is not working"
 
I was in between that and the one below, which says "... While similar questions may be on-topic here, this one was resolved in a manner unlikely to help future readers."
but thanks
 
10:58 PM
And... of course they accept the answer that teaches them nothing. [throws hands up in air]
Yeah I'm using all of the above just having found this was the only way I could think of to change placement of a google ad based on screensize. — Clinton Green 25 secs ago
 
The chat on this youtube.com/watch?v=3MTqr52I5F8 is just hilarious.
 
11:21 PM
@LeviMorrison this was proposed and rejected already. I also to propose the opposite - make internal functions behave like userspace functions regarding arity - but never really had the time and will to update all tests and pass this through the mailing list: github.com/marcioAlmada/php-src/commits/arglist_consistency
Pull request is this one github.com/php/php-src/pull/1665
 
@marcio An interesting approach, as I mentioned above, would be disallowing it generally for direct, named calls, but allow it everywhere else...
 
@bwoebi this yields the same problems, one can dispatch unknown arguments: Blah::someAction(...$args);. From a ~Laravel~ userland perspective, it doesn't matter if the function name is known at compile time or not.
 
@marcio hmmmm … didn't think about dynamic arg passing
 

« first day (2168 days earlier)      last day (2771 days later) »