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12:00 AM
@DaveRandom Well, if there's no third option, I really need option 1.5 Options 1 and 2 aren't good enough.
 
@bwoebi this sucks but it would actually work: fork, run the code in the child, suppress the output, run it in the parent if it succeeds
mmmmmultiping
 
ev fwrite($r, "a"); … When people will wonder why it writes two "a" over the wire…
 
dammit
well, look at it from another direction: if you hit a fatal in the currently running script, how do you handle it?
 
damnit microsoft :(
"Your outlook account has technical issue's"
DAMNIT MICROSOFT!
 
in fact @bwoebi you'd have that problem anyway ev fwrite($r, 'a'); [] - [] <-- fatals but still performs the write
 
or a less synthetic example: ev function_name_with_typo(fwrite($r, 'a'))
 
@DaveRandom That's not an issue
 
@Fabien I don't get it.\
 
Just like in gdb you can do a write() and then a segfault…
 
@MikeM. How would a person parked in the back get out?
 
12:08 AM
@Fabien oh lol didn't see that xD
Super Mario Smash Bro's? XD
 
@bwoebi what you are effectively wanting is a snapshot of the engine before each op that you can roll back to. I don't know precisely what's involved in that but I do know enough to know that that's basically not going to happen...
 
@DaveRandom that'd be the ideal thing. No idea if it could be possible anyhow…
 
I'm quite sure it's possible, I'm also quite sure it's not practical
 
It'll be less of a problem when most things are exceptions anyway… (coming to master, hopefully) but PHP 5 branch…
 
12:27 AM
@Fabien emm .. what should I pay attention to there ?
I see a cop and two people in military uniforms
 
@tereško Exit strategy for the vehicles parked in the back.
 
@bwoebi Have you asked the phpstorm guys what experience they have with that> The PHPstorm IDE does some (apparent) evaling of things when you set up watches that include functions, so they may have some experience.
 
@Danack I did half an hour ago… but he's likely asleep now…
 
Yes....people who have actual jobs are usually asleep by 3am their time...
 
@bwoebi There will be fewer cases where it will be a problem, but the fundamental problem won't go away - it you want to actually solve the problem then some way to save (and roll back to) a state of the engine will have to be created. Which can totally be done in a really dumb way by just literally copying the heap allocated by the engine and restoring it, but that's just generally ridiculous and leaky because of random stuff that doesn't use zend mm (e.g. I know there's some stuff in fpm)
@Danack bastards
 
12:30 AM
@DaveRandom and extensions etc.
@Danack uh, it's 4 am there^^
in Russia I mean
 
THE POINT STANDS!!!1!!ONE!
 
Probably I can either abort immediately… or try to continue execution … and if it doesn't work - safely abort.
 
@bwoebi Indeed. Which introduces a whole other dimension to it in general.
@bwoebi You can at least syntax check before you try to run it, that would eliminate at least some typo based issues
 
@DaveRandom parse errors aren't an issue. Only E_FATALs.
 
What would be really cool would be tab completion based on the current symbol table...
 
12:34 AM
@DaveRandom I think .phpdbginit file contains some such things…
Uncaught exceptions, recoverable errors and parse errors are all easy to recover… but the typical fatal error, no.
 
Isn't that the whole point of them being fatal? They are fatal because trying to continue would leave the engine in an unstable state
 
all the errors which engine exceptions RFC can convert to exceptions wouldn't really leave it in an unrecoverable unstable state…
else that RFC wouldn't be possible at all
 
On another subject entirely, it really fucking pisses me off that unset($_COOKIE) breaks session_start()
I blame Yasuo
It's not really anything to do with him but I don't care
 
breaks in which way?
 
In the way that ext/session doesn't take a copy of the session cookie at RINIT, so if you destroy $_COOKIE before calling session_start() then it starts a new session
Which has caught me out more than once, but it's always long enough in between that I spend at least half an hour shouting at my computer before I remember
 
12:45 AM
and why do you unset it?
 
Because I always unset the superglobals. I realise that you can "just not use them" but its a habit I developed a long time ago as a way to enforce code to not use them
I am aware that there's not that much point in it, but it's still annoying
 
^^
 
Boredom :P
 
1:16 AM
Hi.
How to make sure that php have actual data about certain time zone?
 
Please explain "have actual data about certain time zone?"
I don't really get what you're asking.
 
Something about this one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tz_database
 
something like:
60
Q: Generating a drop down list of timezones with PHP

XeoncrossMost sites need some way to show the dates on the site in the users preferred timezone. Below are two lists that I found and then one method using the built in PHP DateTime class in PHP 5. I need help knowing which of these would be the best to attempt to use when trying to get the UTC offset f...

 
As I know, tomorrow you gonna shift clock hand backward. We do also.
 
indeed
 
1:25 AM
This information stored in timezone db.
I need to be sure that this information is actual.
 
so what is your actual problem
As far as I am aware you can just keep using these functions...
there for this timezone listing is done by php if you store the time zone into the database you're fine...
Let's get with small steps:
What do you want?
What is stored in the database?
Why is it stored in the database?
 
time zone database is not mine................... ..............
 
just use the link I sent. to keep your time zones accurate at any time
 
Please, read more info about timezones, daylight saving times and etc.
 
@sectus allright if you're gonna be like that I ain't even gonna take time to try to help you.
 
1:37 AM
@MikeM. , ok, I'll try to make my self clear.
 
I kinda get what you mean but as far as I know everything related to time zones is using the TZDB
if you look at: http://php.net/manual/en/timezones.php
* Note: The latest version of the timezone database can be installed via PECL's » timezonedb. *
this is how the database looks like following this wikipedia link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tz_database_time_zones
"The UTC DST offset is different from the UTC offset for zones where daylight saving time is observed (see individual time zone pages for details)."
following to this question:
5
Q: does php's date_default_timezone_set adjust to daylight saving?

Robin ManoliDoes php's date_default_timezone_set adjust to daylight saving? I have this code, and wonder if it will always result in the correct Stockholm time? date_default_timezone_set('Europe/Stockholm'); $timestamp = date("Y-m-d H:i:s");

The time_zone results using the php function does look at the daylight saving time
 
Now you could reread my first answer.
 
and what the manual already said with other words in the note it uses the PECL's timezone DB
 
last != actual.
 
I think if you keep using the last timezone database(s) then you should be pretty much up2date
I don't know why you're minding this so much...
but opinion based I think it's pretty useless to mind that much into it...
the latest timezonedb = 2014.8 using the php timezone func....
 
 
3 hours later…
4:28 AM
@bwoebi So Derick about phpdbg using its own XML protocol: why didn't you choose an existing one?
I'm not criticizing: I am just curious why an existing one wasn't used.
 
@bwoebi
@LeviMorrison the phpstorm guys liked the idea of a new protocol
it's the only reason it exists
 
5:04 AM
Morning
 
indeed
@bwoebi you should reply ... because if left to me, I'm not going to be nice ...
 
5:21 AM
@JoeWatkins Odd.
I wonder why they would prefer a new protocol?
 
I remember them saying something about configuration and negotiating connections but I wasn't really involved in the conversation ...
 
6:14 AM
I was as nice as possible, and replied ...
 
yeah, especially with the tone Derick put, you were nice
> I'm not sure why it matters what kind of language we use on phpdbg.com,
not sure why you think it should be under the control of the php group
either.
phpdbg is included in php core... I can see his concern there
 
with the word awesomesauce ?
I don't see it, at all.
 
nah the word awesomesauce itself I don't care, I mean that it should be under php.net
 
why ?
 
because it's a core extension
 
6:22 AM
is fpm website, is apache website, is iis website ...
it's not ... it's a core sapi ...
 
fpm/apache/iis code is not directly under php-src, only the boilerplate to communicate with them
phpdbg itself is in sapi/
 
fpm is in sapi/
 
oh? didn't know that, my bad then
 
this is nonsense ...
 
if there is a precedent, no reason to complain then, yeah
who built fpm?
seems to be Jerome Loyet
 
6:25 AM
they are gone now, I forget ...
yeah ... him ...
 
the one who touched the most the config.m4... only the first developer touches it that much...
that said
I'm afraid this thread is going to be a shitstorm... isn't there someone who can mediate between Derick and you/Bob?
you know you probably wouldn't be able to keep your calm, it'd probably be best to bring in someone who can mediate asap, don't you think @JoeWatkins?
especially this...
> We should be allowed to do the same.
makes it seem like there are groups in php-src
there probably are, but we should strive to not have any :)
 
I mean in the sense that we should be allowed to use whatever protocol we like, as he does, we should be allowed to use whatever language we like, as he does ...
 
yes. What worries me is that "we" doesn't include everyone contributing to php-src.
 
ping @ircmaxell
I dunno ...
he invited us to compete, competition is what he will get ... perfectly calm, competition ... I'm capable of that, this is about code, not politics ...
 
ok. I'd just like someone to be able to say "hey guys calm down" if necessary because it seems to be a sensitive topic. The first mails are already... calm, but anybody can see that it could explode
I hope you see what I mean
 
6:39 AM
I was calm, I didn't change the topic to "Derick's Tantrum" ... I was gonna ...
 
> calm, but anybody can see that it could explode
yes :D
 
I can be calm about code ... I don't want to co-operate with him, he shook my hand minutes before he gave that speech ...
 
on another note
I've been using dnf instead of yum lately
I haven't updated this pc in a couple of weeks
and you really see the advantage of parallel downloads of packages.
 
hadn't heard of that
 
it's a drop-in replacement for yum
all commands are the same
it's just more efficient
 
6:42 AM
first manager with C api I think
 
fedora 21 will make it the default package manager iirc
it's probably already available on your installation
 
is yeah
so it automatically installs updates ?
I always have updates waiting, why you have none ?
93 right now
the day after I update it just finds more ... so how is this gonna be different ?
 
No, it's faster than yum, is all
It parallels the downloads for example
Just replace yum with dnf in your CLI... You'll see the difference
 
so still 100 updaes to download every other day ? you said no updates in two weeks ?
 
Yeah that doesn't change
 
6:50 AM
pain in my ass
 
you could write a cron though...
 
my pc always goes strange after updates, I have to reboot is the problem ..
I don't like to reboot ...
 
heh
alright... big day coming for me, gotta go. cya
 
big day ?
you have to tell me before you go ... because curiosity might kill me ...
 
I'm moving in a week, got lots of stuff to prepare
 
6:53 AM
ah, have fun :)
 
 
2 hours later…
9:22 AM
@DaveRandom the sad thing is, the way I found out is through an email from my sister
 
9:38 AM
Good Noon ..... everyone .  in my wordpress site permalinks not working correctly .
this link
sazjah.com/balochi/abdul-wahid-mandeeg
some times redirects to
sazjah.com/albums/abdul-wahid-mandeeg-volume-02
 
so fix it
 
I don't know how to fix it :(
 
hey hans, been a while since I saw you here. wie gehts? :)
@SecondRikudo It's completely wrong too
 
9:55 AM
@Leigh Probably
But do you have an alternative explanation as to how PHP7 won the vote?
 
It misses my circle, which is "people who don't want all of the 'PHP 6' 'documentation' on the internet to be resurfaced"
 
@Leigh hehe. gut gehts. bischen kalt hier.
 
people documented PHP 6 too early, when it was still just an embryo, and there's a lot of really bad information out there that we need to go away
@hakre heh, hier auch, aber es immer kalt in england ist
 
also also
 
actually, this year has been really hot
 
9:58 AM
yeah, true. summer was quite fine.
 
there's value in keeping history intact, for an open project ...
 
@JoeWatkins are we saying the PHP 6 branch is still valid for further development? :p
not sure I'd call it open
or do you mean open as in open source
 
@Leigh English, please
 
@Leigh open as in open source ... PHP6 did exist, it was never released ... github.com/php/php-src/blob/experimental/…
 
@SecondRikudo ששש
 
9:59 AM
it's of course good for research ...
 
@Leigh ששש בעצמך
 
if we ever try that again, you can bet that it won't be the same developers ... valuable research ...
 
You don't need to give me links :P I'm very aware of it's non release
although this is SO, so I guess habit
 
it says 6 in the header is all I was pointing out ... if you built it, which I did, it did say it was 6 ...
 
it also has "dev", and in the branch name "experimental"
 
10:01 AM
yep
 
but yes, valuable for research, I agree
 
well at the time it wasn't under /experimental ...
it was master
 
I've looked over some of the diffs myself
in the past
 
yeah and it still builds/runs, if we are going to attempt that again we will definitely be using that as a reference of what not to do ...
 
I think all effort is worth something, even if it results in nothing, being able to see what other people have done and where they went wrong, or what they did right, is what speeds up all of our efforts going forward
 
10:03 AM
definitely, yeah
 
@Levi @JoeWatkins Just seen it now… will look and eventually reply.
 
sorry @bwoebi :(
 
sorry for what?
 
we should all be patting you on the back "well done" ... you just woke up and have to deal with Derick ...
well done by the way, if I didn't say it already ... fuck the haters ...
 
also, @JoeWatkins, kind of sad to see Dericks email. I approached him in manchester while he was sitting next to Anthony, and literally said, in the spirit of Anthonys keynote, why don't you and Joe try and work together so that we don't have two diverging products.
also @bwoebi, thanks for all your hard work :)
 
@Leigh you mentioned that ...
 
oh, ok, sorry
I've had a hard couple of days, in truth I am still drunk... I kicked my girlfriend out yesterday for cheating on me
 
no need :)
I'm just saying, he didn't seem to want to work together ...
 
That's the impression I got too, a shrug and a "meh" face
 
working together isn't easily done normally as well. sometimes it works very well, sometimes it doesn't work at all.
(nobody specific here, just my experience with coding and team work in general)
 
10:08 AM
I'm sure working with Derick is horrible. I appreciate all of the work he did with xdebug, I use it daily, but he's a very ... self-appreciating person
Sitting next to him at the hackathon, he talks to himself, about how every compile is a success, and everything is amazing... you're never sure if he's talking to you, but he's just trying to capture the attention of people around him
 
lol
 
@RonniSkansing It's working class, which is written to be unreadable, inside class is stored algorithm
The cool way of making class unreadable
 
What is this about @VeeeneX? "private classes"?
I haven't touched my class accessibility code for a while, I got stuck on semantics.

I'm not sure what "private" and "protected" should mean in a global scope. I'm not sure if I should ping internals, or fire up a poll and get people at work / SO to give opinions.

My original idea was that a "private" class could not be instantiated outside of its specific namespace, and a "protected" class could not be instantiated outside of it's namespace or sub-namespaces (functions and constants equally, called and referenced within namespace and sub-namespaces)
Thoughts on what private/protected should mean when used on a class greatly appreciated
 
10:28 AM
Morning people!
 
morning
interesting new avatar @PeeHaa
 
The people in room 29074 wanted to halloweenify it
 
moin
 
moin joe
Is there any "easy" cross platform (meaning also windows) userland way of creating a console application in php?
ducks for cover
 
10:43 AM
well ...
it depends what sorta things you want to do ...
Symfony got a component
 
@Leigh Nope, these are heavy protected classes
 
I am thinking about a "simple" full screen application with a interactive menu
 
oh god ... no idea
 
@Leigh And great idea
 
@VeeeneX I already have some working concepts, but I need to work out what the "right" approach is
I have runtime and compile time visibility checks on classes, but what to do with the result of these checks is the problem
 
10:47 AM
@Leigh This is heavy protected class pastie.org/private/k6pnlyi2ztvfhaab9cy8tw
 
@VeeeneX that's just obfuscated, and any IDE worth its salt can factor it into something meaningful pretty quickly
also... function calls are expensive, all those decodes are hurting performance a lot
 
Also: why the fuck would you ever do that?
 
@PeeHaa because you don't know better ... stuff like this is fine as a learning experience, but it's not tenable as production code for sure
 
@bwoebi I don't see a reason why you wouldn't be able to continue executing after a fatal error - you'll only leak memory. Likely you didn't properly reset some global state.
 
@PeeHaa There's secret algorithm for generating and validating keys
 
10:50 AM
@VeeeneX Yeah and without looking I can tell you it is utterly crap and broken
 
@NikiC morning wunderkind
 
@PeeHaa Nope it's working :D
 
ok you are right...
 
I just take a part of whole script
 
Yes you are right
 
10:51 AM
"working", but not doing what you want. It's not protected at all
 
@NikiC so, what exactly do I have to restore? I thought zend_eval_stringl() would do that for me?
 
Shhhh. He created the best protection ever because only he knows how it works
 
@PeeHaa Who?
 
5 mins ago, by VeeeneX
@Leigh This is heavy protected class http://pastie.org/private/k6pnlyi2ztvfhaab9cy8tw
 
(I don't care if I leak a bit of memory in phpdbg… phpdbg anyway currently is a giant memory leak, but pssst… will be fixed when time comes, there are currently more important things, especially as it always just leaks memory in small quantities)
 
10:53 AM
@PeeHaa I just cracked software in php, it's not my job
:DD
 
@JoeWatkins Yeah that is basically my reaction. I doubt it is anywhere near possible :P
 
@bwoebi not on a fatal error. your bailout handling code has to do that
 
@NikiC oh. ok. So, backup and restore global state later. Fine…
 
@JoeWatkins sent my mail to internals…
@JoeWatkins I didn't really try to reply to Derick. I replied to Pierre.
That also prevents me to be direct, so that Derick might feel attacked. Don't want to bother with him…
 
11:03 AM
good call ... read it ...
it's fine ... carry on coding :)
 
@bwoebi You probably need to do the same as generator resume does
Also, Derick is a total dick.
 
lol, eloquent ...
 
I mean, we already knew that before, but now it became a lot more clear
 
@NikiC Currently no idea how to find that piece of code?
 
11:06 AM
Ah, there's a nicely named function, fine. thanks.
 
11:23 AM
^ undefined variable. kill with fire.
 
2
Q: Forcing a new tag by writing an offtopic question

PeeHaaI just stumbled upon this question: http://stackoverflow.com/q/26561576/508666 Which I feel is where OP just created a question to force the creation of a tag. Imho the question is offtopic on the grounds of being too broad (I close-voted as such). The answer imho would be a perfect fit once th...

I just whined on meta \o/
 
Yay, he's going to get whipped.
 
Kinda related: do any of you people have some publicly available contact form / address and ever get hate mail from SO people?
 
yes / no
 
@PeeHaa you got hate mail ?? that's hilarious, we must see it !!
 
11:32 AM
@JoeWatkins Sure. Let me gist it. It really is fun to read.
Last two:
 
I only get pls help me! mails. does that qualify as hatemail? I guess not. Perhaps once.
 
The first one reads like poetry
 
epic
 
@hakre Yeah I get those too :)
@JoeWatkins Inorite
Also that first emailaddress is proper rockstar material
Such nice find
 
11:54 AM
Good morning
how it goes here?
 
Morning @AlmaDo
 
good mornings.
 
hi, @PeeHaa @hakre
 
so what's cooking?
 
cooking?
 
12:02 PM
Hi.
Out of interest, what are your guys favourite templating engines?
 
@Purify I have a simple "templating layer" which basically just uses ob_* for output buffering / rendering
 
Would using laravel be overkill?
 
Depends on your needs
 
@Purify Yes
Total overkill
 
ThW
12:05 PM
Morning
 
Morning thomas
 
ThW
@hakre a css() function would not be possible, only somthing like php:function("css", "selector")
 
@Fabien you still need help scraping pirates? If yes: link(s) please
 
@ThW well don't call it function, call it makro :)
 
ThW
You mean parsing the Xpath or adding somesyntax for a preparser?
 
12:12 PM
yeah, would be preparsing and then inserting the xpath there.
 
ThW
hmmm
 
it would break true xpath syntax / standard but could be handy for convenience
 
ThW
element[{?css selector}] - something like that?
 
http://www.linkbucks.com/AV0PG
linkbucks.com/AV0Qd
bc.vc/3lj6ws
@PeeHaa Those are the biggies but you have no obligation to help :)
 
@ThW or: css(.class)/@attribute
 
ThW
12:15 PM
@hakre btw I refactored find(), if you have time and could give it a try I would appreciate it.
 
@ThW master?
 
ThW
@hakre yes
 
@Fabien Meh. This is my way to kill time when I get bored :)
 
ThW
arrrg Protocol 'file' for external XML entity '/home/travis/build/FluentDOM/FluentDOM/tests/FluentDOM/Loader/TestData/loader.h‌​tml' is disabled for security reasons. This may be changed using the hhvm.libxml.ext_entity_whitelist ini setting.
 
@PeeHaa It's decoding more than scraping. Trying to find out where these link protectors eventually go through to.
 
12:33 PM
@ThW is filter useful for anything? Like creating a subset of an existing result? and then again?
 
@Fabien Also fine :)
 
ThW
@hakre filter mode is the one from jQuery, and selector can be a node/node list
 
Morning
 
Morning @RonniSkansing
 
[= o/
 
12:42 PM
uuuhhhhhmmm WAT!??!?!
> Catchable fatal error: Argument 1 passed to Artax\Cookie\ArrayCookieJar::store() must be an instance of Artax\Cookie\Cookie, instance of __PHP_Incomplete_Class given, called in
Ah E_USER_IS_STUPID
 
lol
 
@Fabien bc.vc/3lj6ws
> Unable to connect to database
Or am I blocked?
ah it's backish :)
I have a project which contains a config file with hardcoded username + hashed password. At the moment I have it implemented in a way that the username is case insensitive. I have a PR waiting that makes the username case sensitive. I'm not sure I gain anything by that?
Comments?
 
1:08 PM
@PeeHaa allow for more usernames (also more usernames with less characters) vs. username ambiguity
 
@CSᵠ I think I don't get what you mean? :)
brb food
 
@PeeHaa I guess it avoids dub names such as ADMIN, admin
 
1:28 PM
oh I read the wrong way around. lol
Actually I can not see what you gain by that.
 
@PeeHaa as long as there is only one user, I do not see much gain. it's perhaps easier with brute-forcing, but on the other hand, not really that much better if case sensitive.
 
How you finding it @PeeHaa?
 
@hakre imo the password is the secret part and relying on usernames being case sensitive is a decrease in security.. or not a way to handle brute forces
 
1:49 PM
@RonniSkansing yes, it's perhaps a decrease in security. however I'm still bad with unicode normalization.
 
oh I am worse (unicode normalization == null) ... (/me goes google)
[=
lol .. some crazy mails you get PeeHaa
 
2:07 PM
@LeviMorrison I was saying the other day, how it'd be nice if we could unify all the type names under some constants; TYPE_STRING, TYPE_ARRAY, TYPE_OBJECT, etc.
Functions like ReflectionType::getKind could then return those constants.
Along with being accepted/returned by settype, gettype, etc.
I have to say, I like how .NET has handled constants/enums, and uses the same ones throughout the entire framework, like Encoding.Unicode etc.
Actually, that's a bad example because it's not a const or enum, but the point is that they use the same values throughout, where relevant. It'd be nice if we could do similarly with various things like HTTP_METHOD_*, ENCODING_*, TYPE_*, etc.
 
2:53 PM
@PeeHaa You gain a small customer service benefit...if usernames are case insensitive, and so you have to prevent the same username but different case from registering, there is no possible confusion about two people registering with the same name different case. Also if someone reports a bug and you ask for their username to investigate, they don't have to remember to get the case correct.
 
people forgetting they typed their username like User and trying to log in as user
 

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