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16:00
> error: 'align' is not a member of 'std'
But I did have to fake alignof, so you are probably right.
user142019
Wait, std::align is impure?
@StackedCrooked Of course. Well, it just turns out debian has a sane default, somehow, somewhere. I needed to explicitely edit set :bind, '0.0.0.0' into the ruby file. xD It works now, albeit with gcc 4.5 and clang 2.7 :) But that'll be fixed in a jiffy
It has three return values.
16:01
@sehe cool :)
@JerryCoffin And just to clarify: I am not saying that I won't buy Android or Ubuntu based phone ever. I am merely choosing what I see the most useful for myself. I had an android phone for quite a while, and I wasn't really happy with it. My girlfriend has another one, same here. I am 99% happy with my iPad, though. So it's a logical consequence.
@BartekBanachewicz I did, however, notice that on average, prices for iOS apps were substantially higher in any case, so in a lot of cases even if you paid twice for most Android apps, you'd probably have come out money ahead anyway.
I'd like to improve the installation process and make it 100% automatic.
Did I mention gist-vim is awesome?
user142019
Yes.
16:02
@JerryCoffin There is a lot of iOS exclusives, though. And looking at for example Facebook app, i have to question the Android equivalents quality. Still, I haven't really used top-quality Android device. The little contact I had at work was pleasing, but nothing that would make me consider switching from iPad, despite the price.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Buffer upload?
@CatPlusPlus And goodies, yeah.
user142019
Facebook's app is worse than PHP.
@R.MartinhoFernandes never heard of that
16:04
@JerryCoffin I think, however, that the actual usage pattern has very much to do with the choice, so it may just happen I prefer Apple products because they fit my needs better, which of course makes discussions about "objective" qualifications rather pointless, don't you agree?
Ooooh, played the shellfish card.
what's a shellfish card?
He meant "selfish"
im gonna bet its a pun on selfish
@StackedCrooked Plugin for creating gists from vim, or opening and editing them with automatic upload on save.
16:05
@kbok You changed your avatar :O
still, it adds something. selfish doesn't really make much sense, since I explicitely stated I meant my subjective preferences
Kinda like moving the gist web interface into your favourite text editor.
@Borgleader Yeah, I do that sometimes
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have already suggested gist integration with coliru, I believe. cc @StackedCrooked
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, selfishness is all about making it all about yourself.
16:09
@R.MartinhoFernandes sigh, ok, I definitely should leave this discussion then
> Find was stopped in progress.
VISUAL STUDIOOOOOO
@BartekBanachewicz My point is that it is still possible to discuss objective qualities even if you have subjective stakes in it. You just have to stop thinking about yourself.
@R.MartinhoFernandes But there are little objective qualities to discuss left if you completely remove everything that might have subjective value when it comes to mobile operating systems!
Android > All, end of discussion.
@ShotgunNinja that was constructive as fuck
16:14
@BartekBanachewicz That I have no idea. I only ever used Android. It was a crappy experience, but that means nothing.
Muahahaha.
I'm just being a dick, don't mind me.
I saw some kids being buttmad over mobile OSes on the internet, so I figured I'd troll them a bit to make them realize how silly they're being.
@R.MartinhoFernandes that's exactly the point. As a developer, that might be a different talk, but we are discussing as users now.
Keep the conversation objective, please.
objective... C
har har har
@BartekBanachewicz Oooooh, I expressly tried to not talk about development.
16:18
LEWG votes in throwing an exception in a noexcept function
Xeo
Xeo
wtf
Are you trolling us, puppy?
std::thread's destructor now calls join(), and if join throws, then the exception is thrown in a noexcept destructor.
i.e. std::terminate().
so it's the same behaviour as before, but in fewer cases.
16:19
so it's really not as bad as it sounds
Xeo
Xeo
Then why do you make it sound worse by leaving out details? :P
fun
@BartekBanachewicz It may -- hard to say exactly where to draw the line, since people can (and constantly do) learn new habits and ways of doing things - though if you're happy with your iPad, you may prefer not to.
2 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Are you trolling us, puppy?
Xeo
Xeo
16:21
Anyhow, news from EWG?
Who is the little prince?
Xeo
Xeo
ahaha
@JerryCoffin I am always happy to learn new things. Point is, I have enough of things to learn, so I want my mobile devices to "just work"
I am starting to suspect that Robot is as much of Little Prince fanboy as I am of Lua, if not more
Jan 3 at 13:32, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@sehe I love Le Petit Prince. I own one copy in Portuguese, one in English, and one in French. I saw an Italian copy at a Portuguese bookshop here in Berlin so I am kind of planning on expanding my collection with an Italian and a German copy :)
16:24
@R.MartinhoFernandes Italian copy, Portuguese bookshop, in Berlin? Nice.
@Xeo What about the EWG?
@BartekBanachewicz ... which is what Apple constantly claims (or at least that users claim about Apple) -- but in my experience, it's always a lie. The "it just works" really translates to "It never really works, but I've invested so much in getting it to almost, sort-of half-assed imitate working working that I'm unwilling to even consider starting over, no matter how much better everything else is."
@ShotgunNinja Yeah, it's weird.
@JerryCoffin To be honest, It works for me. Maybe I just have my expectations set low, but everything I ever wanted to do on my iPad, including installing gcc and vim, was painless.
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG Potential scheduling of N3617? :(
16:26
Well, maybe except registering to apple store without credit card, but that's a different story alltogether
looks like I won't even get in all of my papers
dunno if I'll have time for yours
@BartekBanachewicz My former boss used to talk about how it just worked. So I ended up with a Mac for a while, and it crashed constantly. I'd ask about how to do this, that or the other thing -- quickly found that virtually everything involved knowing dozens of poorly (or completely un-) documented tricks. "Well, everybody just knows that when you install new hardware you have to re-start with extensions off." That was a long time ago, but I see little real change.
WTF I thought I had set git to not fuck up the CRLFs, and yet here I am with unsaved changes due to that crap again. ARgh.
@BartekBanachewicz Probably more.
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG I kind-of anticipated that
@JerryCoffin maybe it was you insisting of doing things your way? Have you considered that?
16:29
So, how many of the folks in here actually maintain large-scale C++ code projects? I've always been curious about it.
@ShotgunNinja I do, sort of.
What counts as large-scale?
We'll say, having more than one person actively committing changes to it a month.
SG1 proposes paper to fix std::async
Oh.
Then you can count me.
16:30
That may not be exactly in line with what I had intended, but we'll start there as a benchmark.
@DeadMG nice, let's revert the behavior in boost, again.
no.
Xeo
Xeo
@ShotgunNinja Work or not work?
I could have gone with a KLOC count, but that would have been silly.
@ShotgunNinja We have about 10-15 commiters atm
16:31
What exactly does commiting do?
@BartekBanachewicz I wasn't insisting on anything -- it was simply handed to me as something that would just work. That was basically comical -- literally, as soon as I got it, it was in a cycle of crashing before it finished booting, and none of the (meager) documentation told you anything you could do to interrupt that, troubleshoot, or anything else. It took an experienced user close to 3 hours just to get it so it could boot on its own.
@Pawnguy7 Makes code exist.
@JerryCoffin that's rather unheard of, or I haven't heard about such cases
I witnessed my friend's MacBook crashing midway through generating the fancy BSOD replacement they have in MacOS. Yes, crashception.
> Cookies help us deliver our services. By using our services, you agree to our use of cookies.
> [Ok] [Learn More]
Fuck you Google, that's not how you're supposed to do it.
@BartekBanachewicz My boss said pretty much the same -- but almost the next time I saw him, he was roughly 4 hours late to a meeting because he'd spent the entire morning with his machine doing roughly similar things (and, again, getting it fixed required knowing dozens of things that weren't mentioned in the documentation at all).
16:36
@Pawnguy7 Where's my [Fuck you Google, GTFO of my machine] button?
How are you supposed to do it?
@JerryCoffin meh, maybe I really should give Nexus 4 a try... It apparently is cheaper than 4S still, and I am on tight budget
@Pawnguy7 Giving me "Yes" and "Yes" as a choice is not the right way.
@Xeo Preferably work; though I'd consider a regularly active open-source project in the pre-release or early lifecycle stages.
Xeo
Xeo
Well, sure, server code at work.
16:37
As in you want to attempt using the service without cookies, or? What would a no button do, in your opinion?
Xeo
Xeo
Although I'm currently on the client
@Pawnguy7 Yes, I should be able to google stuff without cookies. I can use Google from before they turned evil as proof it is possible.
@Pawnguy7 Committing means uploading a new version of code/files to a source code repository or version control system.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hey, atleast you can add exceptions to which cookies you accept :P
@JerryCoffin oh god I hate you now I will have an android phone and everyone will laugh :/ :P
16:40
@Xeo In my browser settings?
@BartekBanachewicz I think it's at least worth considering. I obviously can't give any certainty that you'll like it -- and constant switching between the two might well be the worst of both worlds.
That doesn't count.
Xeo
Xeo
Well now imagine you didn't have that!
@JerryCoffin Apple has the nice trait of integrating really well into android ecosystem. Now, I'd need to check the apps I am using, but most of them is crossplatfom
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think it is, yes. Although I see that as more of an argument against being evil then the legal way of using cookies. Let's assume, for whatever reason, Google will not let you search cookie-less. Do you want a no button?
16:41
I wonder if anyone would notice if I snatched it for a weekend :P
How goes Lundi?
@Pawnguy7 Oh, yeah, that law thing is stupid. That banner is kind of insulting, that's all.
@Pawnguy7 look at the starboard
I do agree on the law thing being kind of stupid. I mean... it isn't as if that is the only placed you are tracked.
16:47
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't think clicking the "Learn More" button is treated as agreeing to anything or using their services, and I'm pretty sure doing it doesn't install any cookies either.
@JerryCoffin Neither is "Ok". The agreement is implicit.
That reminds me of the new commercials in the scroogled campaign. They are claiming google violates privacy, giving personal information to app makers. I am curious, though - and yes, I know this is Microsoft, but - what does the apple app store do?
The Apple App Store is a partner to Microsoft. They can do no wrong.
@Pawnguy7 They are all evil.
Companies don't have human goals, and don't care for humans.
Meh, writing a shell is trivial.
16:52
Are Microsoft and Apple really on speaking terms? Not sure of the current state of affairs.
i am going hoime
Is it just me, or does Mark just look like a total douchebag?
I hadn't previously heard of the top one, but yes :D
Ell
Ell
^interesting
16:54
@Drise That's kinda the whole point.
@Mysticial Well more so in that picture, but also just all the time?
@Pawnguy7 The top one is Julian Assange of Wikileaks
Ah. That makes sense.
@Drise dunno about that. Can't say I've ever met him.
@Drise Writing a shell is trivial. Writing a good shell...is one of the most difficult things yet imagined.
16:55
I always see him at like press conferences or investor meetings and he looks like he is completely out of his league and has not clue what he's doing
And also douchebag
In terms of being a businessman?
Might just be me.
Google's Sergey brin for example:
He looks like he knows what he's doing and is competent
I think you are using the wrong metrics to estimate competence.
3
True. I can never remember their names. The other one is... is it Page? Oddly enough, I never forget Eric.
I'm talking from a simple body-language and looks perspective
16:57
@Drise Major difference: Zuckerberg looks like the kid walking down the hall in school with the "kick me" sign on his back.
2
@R.MartinhoFernandes You're saying that because you can't grow a beard.
@LucDanton lol - Tony
@LucDanton Yes, I can! It just takes me months and it is asymmetric.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Beards are overrated anyway.

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