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23:00
@Rapptz Really?
Yep.
Do you wanna help me out on something?
Is it DUI?
nop
I did enough of that for now :C
I have all the UI elements I care about
Ell
Ell
I want to see some parser source code
That's MooingDuck's RDP
23:05
RDP?
@melak47 recursive descent parser
Remote Desktop Protocol?
@Mysticial only thing that came to my mind, as well :p
I always wanted to use this :(
23:06
I hate you
ahaha
I love you too.
Ell
Ell
I think I could write one
@DeadMG Does it make sense to use std::move on pointer objects?
@Rapptz lol
Ell
Ell
To me the confusing part is the parsers outermost rule
23:08
@StackedCrooked When it could be unique_ptr or shared_ptr.
Ah.
Consistency.
in fact, I've got to do some work with that, because I'm going to construct a code formatter from it and I want to permit the complex types to be std::string.
So many pointers in that code.
@StackedCrooked It's constructing a tree type, that's what's gonna happen.
Guess it's hard to avoid.
Member pointers are not initialized?
23:11
eh
I could go back and fix the initialization, but
more important things to do
That's what my boss says.
well
if you wish to contribute a patch fixing it, feel free.
I'm feeling free. But I don't wanna.
I prefer to bitch.
damn
it's so hard to keep shit straight in your head
so many lvalue, rvalue, value...
we need more lolvalues
23:15
We need norms too.
and after this
I need some drastic plumbing to get some more useful type inference.
exported functions as mangled names
I never realized how much shit goes on under the hood to deal with references and values.
We should have a language makers room ^.^
23:26
Mostly so i can leech from the more advanced users :P
@Cicada: Hai
@Cicada NK is always threatening war.
I wanna go to SK one day :) Apparently Seoul is awesome
Ell
Ell
I think tomorrow I'm gonna write an ebnf parser
23:31
BNF -> Backus Norr Form, wtf is the e for? extended?
Ell
Ell
Extended
Yarp
huh...
Ell
Ell
Allows regex type stuff iirx
@Borgleader It's also about one micron from the border with the North.
@Cicada Your avatar is creeping me out. I'm guessing that's the point...
Ell
Ell
23:32
As in *
if the shit hits the fan, Seoul is gonna be right in the center of it.
@DeadMG Yeah, well I wouldn't go there on vacation if shit was about to hit the fan.
Getting nuked is not on my vacation todo list
I don't want to be atomized
@Borgleader Why, do I look ugly?
speaking of bombs, has anyone seen the current SO Supercollider question? stackoverflow.com/questions/15300149/bomb-dropping-algorithm
@nneonneo yeah
23:34
@Cicada The stare is creeping me out.
And no one seems to be able to answer it.
hmm
@Borgleader: I've been twice, and it is awesome. Was in Gangnam both times.
I just realized that I coded an unfortunate thing in Wide.
@nneonneo Cool.
23:35
if you did (the equivalent of) int& x = ...; int&& y = x; it would compile, but silently create a copy of x.
@nneonneo There has yet to be a single working optimal algorithm - let alone polynomial time.
because an lvalue can always decay to an rvalue through a copy.
need to fixski that
@Mysticial I'm sure you can come up with something :P
@Mysticial, yeah...it's times like this I realize SO is short on good algorithms people
@nneonneo The guy who suggested attacking the corners seems to be on the right direction for putting together a working exponential time algorithm.
@Borgleader It might be NP-hard. So I don't think so...
23:37
@DeadMG That had to be fixed as well for C++ in an earlier version.
@LucDanton Yeah.. I need to pass the value category of the memory through when I inplace construct.
There were also some back-and-forth between the exact meaning of T&& ref = { lvalue };.
@Mysticial: intuition says the thing's NP-hard. Did he post a link to the actual contest problem? The bounds on these usually give away the complexity of the needed algorithm
Ell
Ell
Would → be annoying in source code? Assuming ides automatically converted -> ?
fortunately I don't have that problem.
@Ell Yes.
Ell
Ell
23:39
Why?
@DeadMG: Iunno...such a thing would be in keeping with "proportional fonts for coding"
and I know more than a few professional programmers who actually do that
@Ell Other way around is arguably less annoying: there are already some people that set up their editor to display e.g. an arrow for ->.
@Ell I suppose IDEs does not include every program written to deal with text in the past 60 years
@nneonneo No he didn't. But now that I think about it more. I'm no longer fully convinced that attacking the corners is an optimal greedy approach.
@Ell Because how the fuck am I gonna grep for that?
all my external tooling won't cope with it.
do I even have a font for that?
how am I gonna delete one of the two characters?
23:41
@DeadMG: Any reasonably modern grep can handle arrows just fine.
grep →
You could get an APL keyboard!
that assumes I have that character readily available on my keyboard/know the escape for it
hint: I don't.
And it's a token, anyway. Why do you need to delete one of the two characters?
I, for one, would not mind seeing x→foo()
Ell
Ell
It's not two characters, its one character
23:42
there's no benefit
and an awful lot that can go wrong.
Ell
Ell
It looks nice :D and I don't see what can go all that wrong o.O
dicking around with Unicode syntax in languages is a very dumb idea.
@Mysticial: the corners thing just seems like a good idea because it works in the 1D case
but yeah, I don't know that it gives an optimal solution
also
technically, the guy who gave the Integer Programming characterization has an implicit expo-time algorithm for it
branch and bound, baby!
23:43
I hope that nobody ever has the gall to use your language, say, on an unfamiliar keyboard where they don't know how to use Unicode escapes/can't memorize the hex code/doesn't use an IDE.
@DeadMG: then we'll just use trigraphs!!
it's endless bullshit for nothing.
because, y'know, that's exactly why trigraphs exist in C
Ell
Ell
I guess
and, "It looks nice" is the fucking dumbest reason to do anything, did I mention that?
23:44
How about is a unigraph for ->
as in, please don't ever make any serious decisions at all.
@DeadMG: man, anger! "It looks nice" is a matter of readability
Ell
Ell
If it ever existed I'd make the default IDE display →for ->
faster code reading = faster code understanding = better productivity
to be very simplified
→ kind of looks like a - though. Seems harder to read.
23:45
yeah, except → is absolutely no improvement over -> except that less fonts have it and those that do render it terribly.
on my screen it resembles _ a lot more than ->
As (perhaps) the only person here who's actually written code like if x .eq. y "in anger", I feel qualified to say that looks really do matter -- some (but not a huge amount).
► lol
@StackedCrooked Use Boost PP. They have a macro for that.
I know.
I'm trying to figure out how it works.
23:49
I just realized that my languages syntax is so similar to C++ that it still has the MVP problem. Would I get destroyed if I asked for syntax modification suggestions on SO?
@StackedCrooked: You're doing it wrong.
For the bomb question, what happens if you bomb a corner?
@Borgleader: does it also have a Turing-complete parser?
@Rapptz: you waste a bomb
@nneonneo That's very helpful :P
well
@StackedCrooked: what? it calculates primes using the PP
11-bit ALU IIRC
@Rapptz: well, actually, the corner & the three points nearest it are bombed down by one
but in all cases you are better off bombing the one next to the corner
Ell
Ell
23:51
C++ is context sensetive isn't it? Not Turing complete?
So bombing a corner results in minimizing just 4 blocks
@nneonneo Huh?
@Rapptz Nothing particularly terrible, but you can always accomplish at least as much by bombing the square diagonally in from the corner (i.e., it reduces all the same squares by the same amount, plus reducing other squares as well.
@Ell @Borgleader C++'s parser is probably turing complete
23:52
@JerryCoffin Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking
but this doesn't really help you recurse
@Borgleader Get rid of using () for initialization, and just use {} (but hopefully not the way C++11 has gone with "uniform" initialization).
Whats wrong with uniform initialization?
@JerryCoffin: my C++11 is pretty crap, so excuse the question: what's wrong with uniform initialization?
@nneonneo For what it's supposed to accomplish, uniform initialization isn't necessarily all that horrible (though I think the Puppy disagrees on that). It has some limitations you probably wouldn't want in a new language though. OTOH, you'd probably want to get rid of a lot of the situations that lead to most of it anyway.
For example, UI is strange in C++ in prohibiting narrowing conversions that are otherwise allowed -- unless the values are constants, so the compiler can determine that the specified value is going to be preserved. In a new language, you probably want to eliminate all implicit narrowing conversions and be done with it.
23:59
hm
I'm a little sad they didn't introduce designated initializers

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