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user142019
22:00
@Ell levelness isn't really quantifiable.
@thecoshman What the spec says is only relevant when the vendors support it. Otherwise it is irrelevant.
@DeadMG oh sure, but it was not until that moment that it really mattered
user142019
By the way
@Ell A combination of C and assembly usually. Nowadays, even C++, but you have to give up the exception runtime at very low levels. At least when you start working on an OS.
@thecoshman I disagree. Stuff like rvalue refs were never going to be massively changed after a certain point. It was plenty mature enough to offer those features and use them.
22:01
I'm looking at this problem: stackoverflow.com/q/15256188/942596
user142019
I'm going to write a Chrome extension that removes all o.O, O.o, o_O and O_o smileys from chat since they are fucking stupid.
user142019
@andre Okay. I'm not.
@DeadMG Actually, they were changed a lot, and VS11 still implements an old version.
it has nothing to do with Dynamic programming
@Zoidberg Send it to me when you're done.
22:01
@DeadMG if vendors do not strive to support the spec, it defeats the purpose of a spec. Otherwise, allow me to present you my full wide implementation!It may not support much, if anything, but I say I am supporting Wide, so I am!
am I wrong?
@thecoshman The Wide spec is not released AFAIK.
@thecoshman They do strive to support the spec, it just takes a while.
@R.MartinhoFernandes don't care, I support it
At least not to the general public, i.e., beyond except DeadMG's brain cells.
22:02
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yup -- doing a quick look they're back to saying it's under active development again. What they're developing now looks quite a bit different from what I saw the last time I looked, so it looks to me more like a reboot than just starting back up though.
@ScottW No its when you find the optimal way to light things on fire
@R.MartinhoFernandes Huh. I remember a last-minute change before MSVC10, but they fixed that up just in time, I thought.
@DeadMG sure some things towards the end where almost set in stone, and if there where going to change, probably not that much. all the means to me is that tool devs have a chance to start working out how they will deliver it to me ASAP
oh, the move special members.
IIRC VS10 implements v2.0, VS11 implements 2.1, and the final version is 3.0.
user142019
22:04
I don't implement any of them.
user142019
Also
user142019
time to shit the poo out of me.
Same thing for the C++11 standard, it's just that we developers are the ones that are suffering the lack of a full implementation and can work around it with no consequence for the user. But we'll be happy only when it is 90+% implemented. Now with the CTP, it's pretty good.
And others have been ready for quite a while.
And by pretty good, you mean pretty buggy, right?
I know some Loungizens that actually stopped using it instead of workarounding the bugs.
like me
I think only me. :( I feel as if everyone else didn't switch because they love Visual Studio too much
22:08
@R.MartinhoFernandes The real question (to me anyway) is how soon we can expect a reasonably finished product. I find the current situation pretty frustrating -- they've shown enough to make living with the released compiler painful, but the CTP itself isn't really usable either (though in fairness, that's why the call it a CTP).
I'm considering re-tagging the question Because the problem does not look like an optimization problem for dynamic programming.
I remember when I tried the first alias-template-capable build of GCC.
@DomagojPandža Most of the cool stuff in the CTP was present before the CTP.
@EtiennedeMartel It's... going a lot worse than I thought: dl.dropbox.com/u/17644642/Title.plmap
I had to not end alias template definitions with semicolons for it to work.
That was... awesome?
22:09
@ThePhD Indeed.
@EtiennedeMartel For me, the move semantics, auto and lambdas were the gold. Variadics also, although they took a while.
@JerryCoffin Yeah. They shipped one upgrade, and another one is coming soon, but still not C++11-improving, is it?
It's because I'm still in C++ mode.
@DomagojPandža Move, auto and lambda was there since VS2010.
22:10
0
Q: Why do most people on SO like to use std:: instead of just using namespace std on top?

HoKy22Personally, when I learned C++, I was taught just put using namespace std; at the top. When people keep using std:: to scope, it kind of bothers me because it looks somewhat messy to me.

dupe
@ThePhD I don't really see the need for such a format.
@EtiennedeMartel Yes, that's why I'm mentioning them. The most important stuff is there (to me).
Although, I guess it depends on what you want your levels to look like.
They're going to be open ( to a degree )
Oh, god, someone pulled in the entire namespace.
22:10
You have freedom to move around, but it's not like they're huge.
They're, uh....
Like individual maps, from Ragnarok Online
Have you ever played Ragnarok Online?
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess it's improving in some ways, but not the ways most of us care about here.
What C++11 feature do you guys personally want the most?
Alias templates!
@EtiennedeMartel Um... okay, better example, uhh...
.... Scott Pilgrim vs. the world?
Seiken Densetsu (SNES) ?
OH
Streets of Rage, Golden Axe.
Cmon, you had to have played one of those.
22:13
@DomagojPandža In general, or of what's missing from VS 2012 now? I think lambdas were huge from a usability viewpoint. Working variadic templates are probably the next thing I care most about (though, admittedly, you can imitate those to an arbitrary degree, if you want to).
@ThePhD I remember Golden Axe.
Yeah, variadics can't come sooner.
Speaking of alias templates.
Ell
Ell
Woo for Tay Zonday doing skyrim theme
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think they're going to bury you in a coffin with a template pun scribbled into its side. :P
Ell
Ell
22:15
Oh dayum. He does the hobbit too youtube.com/…
I've been poisoned with so much C++, XML, and JSON, that my mind keeps going back to bracket-based <>-based trees for defining levels and sdjhawjdhwjadhwakhdwad
Apparently Miyamoto is planning on retiring :(
template <template <typename...> class T, typename... Args>
using Invoke = typename T<Args...>::type;
// saves one level of <>
// worth it?
(@Xeo, @Luc)
I don't think so, anyway.
Ell
Ell
@ThePhD what kind of levels? tilemaps?
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think the usage looks kinda weird.
22:16
Tilemaps are easy. I'd just do PNGs for that.
The level format is 3D.
@ThePhD So, you haven't been poisoned enough you mean. If you had your mind would avoid those at all costs.
And fuck all of I know how to make a 3D level.
Ell
Ell
3d as in geometry?
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Although it would mimic a potential std::invoke function (based on INVOKE)
Hey
22:16
3D view, geometry, everything is in 3D.
@ThePhD Why not use a JSON-like format?
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm trying, but there's just so many tools for JSON and XML.... it's tantalizing.
Ell
Ell
How about an already existing format?
or XML
Ell
Ell
.3ds or whatever it is
.obj, etc.
22:17
Those are for models.
I meant like
@dysoco Howdy! You new here? (Just checking if my memory is failing me)
Xeo
Xeo
The biggest draw back would simply be that you require type parameters.
I was wondering... when should I NOT use a Smart Pointer? Is there any situation when using them is harmful ?
Ell
Ell
Levels are models :3
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have been a couple times here, but I'm not usually arround here
Xeo
Xeo
22:17
No Invoke<std::enable_if, C::value, T>
Nooo, but they're not teh saame.
@Xeo Tbh, doesn't disturb me much (I avoid non-type parameters anyway)
@dysoco when you don't want to (share, transfer, take) ownership
Lol, for a moment I thought dysoco was Insilico.
Ell
Ell
@ThePhD why not? :3
22:18
37
Q: Is it a good practice to always use smart pointers?

Dony BorrisI find smart pointers to be a lot more comfortable than raw pointers. So is it a good idea to always use smart pointers? ( Please note that I am from Java background and hence don't much like the idea of explicit memory management. So unless there are some serious performance issues with smart po...

Oh thanks @Rapptz , I was seaching and couldn't find anything
Xeo
Xeo
@dysoco When you don't need dynamic storage duration.
Or are we assuming the need here?
@Ell Because they build vertices and geometry directly. They don't have things like "make 100 boxes for collisions here, here, and here. And then make sure you use a Sphere here. And there's a hierarchy here for the individuals objects. ANd oh, these objects are attached to this one..."
@dysoco Many. But most sane people wouldn't even consider them in those situations. I think you should pose your question as "is there any situation where using X is better than a smart pointer", where X is some specific alternative.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, but you can't really choose if you want one or the other.
See the std::enable_if example.
22:19
@Xeo I don't use std::enable_if
ah I see
Ell
Ell
@ThePhD Ohh. maybe use lua like deadmg said :3 but I don't know what a level entails so ignore me
Xeo
Xeo
template<class C, class T = detail::enabler>
using EnableIf = Invoke<std::enable_if, C::value, T>; // whatnow
I'm not sure to understand the concepts of ownership yet
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes ^
22:20
0
Q: order of running time

user2141763How do I determine the exact order of the running time in terms of N for this algorithm: read(n); c = n/2; for (h = 1; h <= c; h++) { a = 0; for (k = 1; k <= h*h; k++) a = a + k; print a; }

@Xeo So, there's one place where I can't use it. Look at my concerned face :)
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Still, I'm not entirely sold on the syntax.
Just wanted to clear the air here about the discussion prior to now. I respect you all deeply and consider you mighty smart men. While I don't agree with your viewpoints entirely, I see where they're coming from.
Note to self: if you want to make tea, don't wait for two hours after you boiled the water.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fail
22:23
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
I would think a lot of the water has evaporated away
Ell
Ell
@DomagojPandža Heh yes, discussion ;)
@Rapptz The boiler turns itself off.
user142019
Google Docs y u no image captions. It's like, the most basic feature ever.
Ah. That's cool I guess.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Did the same mistake twice today. Only with with coffee. The thing is, when you boil milk, it doesn't stop there. IT SPILLS ALL OVER. :(
@Ell Chick fight, discussion, I've never been in one worth mentioning that didn't turn ugly. :D
22:24
@DomagojPandža My water boiler can boil milk :P
My kitchen looks like a warzone now. :(
@R.MartinhoFernandes ¬_¬ remind me not accept drinks from your house
Ell
Ell
@R.MartinhoFernandes is a "water boiler" a kettle?
@thecoshman What?
@R.MartinhoFernandes oooh, do you mean kettle?
22:26
Hmm. Maybe whistles
do you actually use it boil milk?
oh come on now, have some class
What's wrong with boiling milk?
@thecoshman No.
22:27
The only teapot I have is the CG teapot. Ahahah.
I don't understand
Ell
Ell
Utah teapot :3
I have milk with cereal at home, but I don't heat it, that's gross.
you shouldn't boil milk, it spoils it. You should only warm it. Sure get it very hot, but if you let it boil you will burn it and make it tast nasty
Ell
Ell
22:28
@R.MartinhoFernandes I have warm milk & wheetabix & other cereal on top in the morning, then cereal & cold milk in the evening
@thecoshman I don't warm it. That's gross.
Ell
Ell
Warm milk is yum
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, it's nicer when making chocolate :)
I only warm milk for coffee, and I only do that at work (no tooling at home, and I'm too dangerous to do it manually).
@thecoshman This is false
Ell
Ell
22:29
you're true
You need to stop doing that shit to your coffee, you'll like coffee much better if you do.
Ell
Ell
you're maybe
@DomagojPandža The utah teapot?
Xeo
Xeo
@Rapptz No, this is always true.
@ScottW === true
22:29
This statement is false.
I've more or less given up with coffee... just fed up with drinking shit
lol
@rvalue I used to agree with you, but my stomach started disagreeing. Though I haven't tried just coffee in a while.
@Borgleader The only one. :D
typedef enum WINBOOL (...)
22:30
@DomagojPandža I'm sure there are other teapots in Utah :P
@thecoshman Why do you drink shit? I'd rather just drink coffee.
@ShotgunNinja Damn you, I almost spilled tea over my keyboard!
@R.MartinhoFernandes don't spoil the dream
Unless you like that Kopi Luwak stuff.
@R.MartinhoFernandes ¬_¬ simple things
Xeo
Xeo
22:31
@R.MartinhoFernandes That'd be worse than my salad.
Kopi luwak (), or civet coffee, refers to the beans of coffee berries once they have been eaten and excreted by the Asian Palm Civet (Paradoxurus hermaphroditus). The name is also used for marketing brewed coffee made from those beans. Producers of the coffee beans argue that the process may improve coffee through two mechanisms, selection and digestion. Selection occurs if the civets choose to eat coffee cherries containing better beans. Digestive mechanisms may improve the flavor profile of the coffee beans that have been eaten. The civet eats the berries for the beans' fleshy pulp, th...
Then again, my take-home point from when I visited the states is that Americans don't know what coffee is supposed to taste like.
@ScottW Second greatest thing. The greatest thing is boobies, and coincidentally that's where milk comes from.
TIL the robot is a boob guy
Xeo
Xeo
You do have to wonder why a robot would ever be interested in boobs.
22:32
@R.MartinhoFernandes +1
@Xeo he is simply trying to understand them
Xeo
Xeo
I think he's just faking it, trying to appear human.
Ell
Ell
It's been a long time, since I had my favourite drink. I lick my lips, every time I start to think. Maybe It's not the taste, but the shape that drives me to bits. All I wanna do is stick my face, right between your tits. [youtube.com/watch?v=d6UWhP0Jxis] T&E is awesome
personally, I would rather sup mead
Xeo
Xeo
Something along the lines of "Analysis... Lounge finds boobs good -> Say boobs are the best thing ever -> be considered human -> infiltration complete".
22:33
@Xeo Yeah, that's also why I make mistakes sometimes.
"To err is human" and shit.
Xeo
Xeo
Like "forgetting" your boiled water.
Xeo
Xeo
Or "cutting" into your "skin"
@Xeo I didn't even boil water, that was just a carefully constructed tale.
seriously, if the Vikings where right with Valhalla and mead goats I would wage war on ever fuck I come across
22:34
@ScottW dull life huh?
@thecoshman "mead goats"?
Xeo
Xeo
Or "easily getting drunk". Although I find it hard to believe you could fake that.
@Xeo :| You have never even seen me wasted.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Vikings believed that in Valhalla there would be a giant goat who produced mead that they could drink all the time
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I don't have to see you wasted to see that you easily get drunk.
22:35
@ThePhD Knights of the Round? Final Fight?
But fake what?
fairly sure it was a giant goat
Xeo
Xeo
Remember the night at ape's place? Where he knew before you that you were drunk?
Everyone seems to be able to tell when I'm drunk before me. :(
I was thinking about something and then my mind dereferenced a null pointer, now I feel a certain angry numbness related to not being able to recover my train of thought.
22:36
But no one ever wants to tell me why.
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's how it works.
@R.MartinhoFernandes is it because you have to wake up?
Xeo
Xeo
Your demeanor changes, is what I picked up atleast.
Kinda hard to explain.
@Xeo That's what everyone says :<
22:37
57 secs ago, by Etienne de Martel
@R.MartinhoFernandes That's how it works.
@thecoshman I fail to understand what that is supposed to mean.
Though apparently people think I'm "funny" and "cute" when drunk, so I don't care.
@R.MartinhoFernandes implying you pass out very quickly, so everyone else can see your powered down shell, whilst you have to wait for reboot
Xeo
Xeo
But I am anticipating the stories @sbi will tell about you after Friday. :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes you're normally 'shy' right?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Great for picking up the ladies.
22:38
quiet and introverted like?
@Xeo Thank god I have been going out with people he doesn't know. At least he won't be making shit up about that time wh-- yeah, right.
@ScottW night
@thecoshman Yes, you can say that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes so I am going out on a limb and saying once you have had a few, you are willing to talk and what not
@ScottW LIES!
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes :)
22:40
¬_¬ I will not be mounting any limes
Xeo
Xeo
Hm. I need an upvote somewhere.
@EtiennedeMartel A little bit? I don't think I ever played those seriously. But it's like, you're basically on a plane that has varying heights to the level of the plane. I thought a heightmap would do the trick, but then I had OVERHANGS and UNDERTOWS and wahwhfadhwadhwad. After that, I tried to think about another, more abstract way of defining terrain/map/levels/thingymahdoodle.
Xeo
Xeo
Time to hunt some easy prey.
@Xeo Though unfortunately those other people don't seem to want to stop mentioning it :/
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes What exactly are you thinking of?
22:41
@thecoshman Dunno.
@Xeo It's just some embarassing thing I did. I won't tell.
@R.MartinhoFernandes :P life of the party post two drinks
It's probably not as embarassing as you are imagining now. It's rather tame.
@R.MartinhoFernandes awww
@R.MartinhoFernandes vomit?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Is that your handwriting?
22:42
@thecoshman No.
@Rapptz I imagined it to be more pretty and swirly...
Xeo
Xeo
The likeliest things I'm imagining right now are vomiting, passing out, or just falling over.
@Xeo not quite getting to the bathroom is an option
@Rapptz Yes, though I usually write stuff in cursive.
Ooh. I wanna see.
22:42
@Xeo Nope. Nothing like that. Stop it.
Xeo
Xeo
Unless you came into contact with a knife while being drunk... that might be dangerous.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Haha
It was definitely vomit.
No, it was not.
Pissed his pants
Xeo
Xeo
Prove it
22:43
Dammit.
I vote passing out!
I write in hieroglyphs; I hope one day it is translated
@Xeo WTF how would I do that?
Or stumbling around while giggling cutely.
Or he spilled his drink on a girl.
22:43
@R.MartinhoFernandes No time machine? No wonder you suck.
You know, if I tell now, you guys won't believe me because you already made up your minds, and will be disappointed.
then you may as well tell us
@R.MartinhoFernandes Shoot.
@Xeo make waterproof?
Better tell us before the disappointment gets too high. <3
Xeo
Xeo
22:44
@StackedCrooked >_>
Lol
Xeo
Xeo
Damn homophones
I bumped against a pole in the street.
lol
22:45
@R.MartinhoFernandes ¬_¬ smooth
You get embarrassed too easy.
Xeo
Xeo
Oh, a buddy of mine did that with a road sign.
That's adorable!
I would have gave him and hug and a snuggle for that.
@ThePhD cute FTFY
Xeo
Xeo
@StackedCrooked > Harnessing the Power Of Java 8 Lambda Expressions
In 20 years, maybe.
22:46
Harnessing the power of cannons and cannonballs.
@ThePhD Everyone laughed instead.
Awww.
Well, let me send me hugs over the internets to you. I thought it was adorable. <3
Xeo
Xeo
After said buddy bumped into said road sign, we've now established that they're dating and having a long-distance relationship.
Then once they managed to stop laughing they asked if I was hurt.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Gotta set priorities.
22:46
lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, well at least they did that
There's this girl that keeps bringing that up all the time :(
Ell
Ell
I have a tendency to play with kitchen knives when I'm drunk
@R.MartinhoFernandes you're in
@ThePhD It was painful, not adorable.
Xeo
Xeo
22:48
@Ell Don't rub it off on the robot, that might get messy.
Ell
Ell
Okay.I'll rub one off on robot instead
@Xeo Sticky?
Ell
Ell
although that will still be messy
Xeo
Xeo
...
What's the difference?
22:49
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
@ThePhD only a man can rub one off
Xeo
Xeo
Poor robot.
user142019
TIN: iTunes ignores The and A when sorting.
Xeo
Xeo
@Zoidberg And a and other small words like that.
22:49
@Zoidberg Yep. foobar doesn't. =[
I think most players do that.
Xeo
Xeo
Dunno what the correct term is.
@ThePhD Mine does.
user142019
Stopwords?
Xeo
Xeo
@ThePhD You can surely customize it to do that.
22:50
Damnit, my fooscripts aren't stronk enough.
@thecoshman .... OOOOOOOOOOOOH I GET IT NOW
$swapprefix(x) (there's another to remove them, but I prefer putting them at the end "Foo, The")
@Ell You're gross. D:
user142019
The best music player is obviously Emacs.
@ThePhD fap fap fap!
Xeo
Xeo
@ThePhD So innocent...
22:50
I'm not innocent!
I just, uh
Forgot for a second.
Xeo
Xeo
@Zoidberg Didn't it go like "best OS, worst text editor"?
user142019
:P
user142019
Emacs is not really bad as a text editor.
user142019
It's like modeless Vim--.
Xeo
Xeo
22:51
@ThePhD Your foo-fu isn't strong enough.
user142019
Nah.
user142019
It's quite good.
The only good thing about emacs is viper mode.
Xeo
Xeo
Dafuq is viper mode.
@Xeo Emulates vi key bindings.
Xeo
Xeo
22:52
lawl
Also, I just noticed I still have an hour to get an upvote.
No need to panic.
If I didn't post that bounty this morning, I would be repcapped by now.
Where's Tony? I need more cat puns.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Dat Git Submodule question... seriously.
@ThePhD A scene graph?
Anyone here knowledgable about laptops?
22:58
@Xeo You're just jealous :P
oh look, we are the only active room
Xeo
Xeo
Kinda.
@EtiennedeMartel Basically. 'Tis why XML keeps popping up in my head. ._.
@DomagojPandža Whats the difference between cat puns and regular puns? Do they have a different feline to them?
Xeo
Xeo
@KaliMa No, we don't know anything in here.
22:58
> +2 23 mins ago upvote
Wait, I am repcapped.
WTF
Xeo
Xeo
Bounties don't make your rep cap higher.
@ThePhD HM HM
@Xeo Does it count for badges?
Xeo
Xeo
You'll still be rep-capped after 200 rep from upvotes.
I am trying to find a good laptop that is fast for C++/Python coding
22:59
¬_¬ damn cat just decided to drop a soaking fur mouse on my desk
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think so
ThePhD, if you wish terrain, just define a regular grid and extrapolate geometry according to some data encoded in a texture, might be a heightmap and a displacement map. Ideally you should be able to use modern GPUs to LoD dynamically.
Also, you'll need an acceleration structure for anything more serious, octree. You can extend it with a payload-sensitive system which gives priority to varying land masses.

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