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00:01
I'm gonna do /Od but keep the rest of the stuff there. Maybe it'll give me a better idea if it's just FbxSDK that's freaking out or if its my code.
@ThePhD On all components?
@CatPlusPlus ... Uh. What does that mean?
Main executable, DLLs it uses
Yeah, it's all across the board.
Then callstack should work fine
Maybe you smashed it
Ell
Ell
00:02
yess just found 2 bourbons
Wouldn't debug mode pick up something as serious as smashing the callstack?
Maybe it doesn't happen in debug mode
Damnit. ;~;
Is there any part of callstack that's valid
user1357851
@ThePhD have you put the the break points at the right places?
00:04
@ThePhD It's on par with Visual Studio I guess
user1357851
like when the local values exist?
It makes GDB usable.
lol
... Oookay.
So, optimizations are the problem (ish?)
WHen I turn them off, the code runs (but the model... disappears? Very nice).
No exceptions or crashes.
Ell
Ell
Sounds like some ub
Your code is the problem, not optimisations
Optimisations just make the problem visible
00:06
Rubs face.
Mmm.
Importance of correct code
And simplest possible code
Xeo
Xeo
Oooh, @ThePhD swimming in UB?
Looks like it.
I don't know where from or how.
user1357851
@CatPlusPlus simpliest code do not always solve the most complicated problems
Fun time
00:08
Seeing as I've changed everything to be std, I hardly use any of my own shit anymore.
Ell
Ell
Simplest code possible
(Also this is why UB is absolute bullshit)
So, in processing the FBX File, I make it past the root node, into the polysurface1 node,
and upon ProcessingMesh -> ProcessNormals, it crashes a the usual direct.GetCount().
Check types trace values
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Well, what can you do.
00:10
@Xeo Use a better language
My engine is pretty much paralleled in C#.
I could probably do it there and not worry about OpenGl or cross-platforming anything.
This is such a nightmare...
It's hard for me to trust C++ code
Xeo
Xeo
0
A: Detecting constexpr with SFINAE

Xeo but I would like to know if the code is legal C++11 It is, although the default template argument may be considered a bit unusual. I personally like the following style better, which is similar to how you (read: I) write a trait to check for a function's existence, just using a non-type temp...

@Andy ^
Also, holy crappers, 1:15 already.
I guess this si why all veteran C++er's are always jerking off with the standard.
Because if they don't they get fucked up and blindsided by this kind of stupid nonsensical shit.
Ell
Ell
is There a list of ubs which can't be detected at compile time? (Realistically)
00:16
What the hell, things aren't even loading correctly...
Jesus fucking christ...
Xeo
Xeo
@Ell UB is UB exactly because it can't be detected at compile-time.
Ell
Ell
But some trivial ub can be detected
Xeo
Xeo
@Ell Example?
@Ell there's a few cases where UB can be detected, but no UB can be detected in the general case, or it wouldn't be UB
Hey you Project Euler addicts
Do all problems have integral answers?
00:19
....
WHat. What I... I don't even understand anymore.
Xeo
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Are you planning on bruteforcing it?
@Xeo No
I couldn't care less about PE
It's not even calling my code anymore.
Wait what do you mean by integral answer?
Xeo
Xeo
You must've fucked up big time.
00:21
passreferences.PassByName( techniques[ t ] /* This produces a string */ )
Where it ends up:
ShaderPass& ShaderPassCollection::PassAt ( ulword index ) const {
		ShaderPass* pass = null;
		furrovineassert( TryGetPassAt( index, pass ), "Pass does not exist at the specificied index" );
		return *pass;
	}
It calls the index version... .... WHEN I CALL PASSBYNAME
WHAT IS THIS
WHAT IS THIS SHIT
Xeo
Xeo
Bwahaha
Ell
Ell
I don't understand how you can die if sleep deprivistion
@ThePhD what type of string, what are the other overloads, and do the overloads have the same scope/qualifications? (I bet the answer to that third one is no)
@Ell brain is a powerful thing
Ell
Ell
surely you would fall asleep before dying
@ThePhD wait, you're calling PassByName specifically and code goes to PassAt? You have inlining enabled. Turn that off when debugging.
@Ell not if the brain is broken
00:24
The problem doesn't happen in Debug mode. I'm trying to debug through optomizations because release mode is the only one that crashes. ;~;
Ell
Ell
It is, but there mist be a point when you run out of energy which is when you fall asleep, then death is on the same number line, just later on
@ThePhD turn inlining off and see if it still happens
@Ell not if your brain is broken. sleep is not a lack of energy, sleep is a state you go into.
Ell
Ell
Oh yeah I suppose
blah, that page has auto playing movies I can't figure out how to disable :/
Calls PassByName with inlining disabled.
What did I do to deserve this ;~;
00:28
@ThePhD that means that PassByName is calling PassAt inside of it, maybe with other inlined functions between.
@ThePhD the bug doesn't occur though?
Ell
Ell
That is interesting
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck Where the fuck is that even playing?!
@Xeo I never found it. First plays an ad in the middle of the right side that I couldn't mute. Never found where the "news" part plays from.
No, it works as expected.
... I.
I think I'm going to just curl up in my bed now.
Xeo
Xeo
Lemme guess, the inlining goes right through PassByName (which internally calls PassAt)?
00:33
@Xeo yeah
PassByName doesn't call PassAt, though
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck Fuck that, then
Which is what makes me very sad.
Xeo
Xeo
@ThePhD Not even indirectly?
@ThePhD yes it does, just not directly
00:34
The code looks nearly the same inside either
Is the compiler allowed to smash two methods together like that?
Xeo
Xeo
Hmm... common subexpression elimination across function boundaries.
Maybe
@ThePhD put a breakpoint at the beginning and end of PassByName. When it's entered, then put a breakpoint at the beginning and end of PassAt to confirm and find.
By the way, I've turned off optimizations.
It has the rest of the release settings but no Debug and /Od and stuff.
I'm going to increment the level by 1 each time and see what breaks.
Albeit it's breaking at /Od, so I have a serious problem. ._.
Xeo
Xeo
Why not try the other way around?
Go to debug mode and increase /On
@ThePhD yeah, I don't see how that will help
00:38
@Xeo Debug mode doesn't work work /Zi (create program database along with debug symbols)
Anything beyond /Od will tell you to change the Debug Symbol settings, which is what Debug is good for in the first place.
In either case, I think I solved the problem, and I feel really dumb for not seeing it before.
Going to turn on inlining again and see if the problem remains unsolved.
Xeo
Xeo
Do tell the story of your failure.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE‌​EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
I'm a dumbass.
@ThePhD always how it works
Remember this lovely line:
furrovineassert( TryGetPassAt( index, pass ), "Pass does not exist at the specificied index" );
> furrovineassert
> assert
Guess what isn't run when in Release mode. :3c
19 mins ago, by ThePhD
It calls the index version... .... WHEN I CALL PASSBYNAME
00:40
in other news, I've successfully ported my project to Qt Creator ^^
Xeo
Xeo
@ThePhD That doesn't make sense. Didn't you say it breaks in release mode, but not debug mode?
That could have been inlining and function combining, which really makes sense when you look at the two functions (they were fixed, but imagined the statements being inside the assert):
If you remove the assert, both functions look exactly the same, whether it's PassByName or PassAt.
(When the functions are contained inside the assert that is).
Xeo
Xeo
Oooh, wait, you put code with side-effects inside an assert.
You suck.
Yeah. ._.
I'm pretty much blowing a bag of dicks.
@ThePhD since you have bool success anyway, throw an exception. There's virtually no overhead in that case.
Xeo
Xeo
00:44
@MooingDuck Failed assertion != exception.
@MooingDuck I know, I'm just going to throw from now on. Besides, dereferencing a null pointer is major UB anyways.
Might as well throw before I end the world.
@ThePhD nevermind, no reason for an exception here, it's always UB
Xeo
Xeo
Although it's questionable what of the two he actually wants here.
@ThePhD: Can the user pass in faulty arguments?
@Xeo It takes string and std::size_t, so yes.
They can mispell the Parameter's name and it'd return a null pointer.
@ThePhD if that's a valid input, maybe assert doesn't belong there
what does furrovineassert do that assert doesn't?
Xeo
Xeo
00:46
Well, decide on your semantics now, then. Should the non-Try version assume valid arguments? (like std::vector::operator[]) Or should it be more like std::vector::at?
@MooingDuck Prob about the string parameter.
I've always been a fan of assert(success && "OMG AN ERROR");
Xeo
Xeo
Although you can do assert(cond && "heya").
But default assert sucks in other ways.
@MooingDuck That's what furrovineassert does anyhow.
#define furrovineassert(condition, message) assert((condition) && message)
@ThePhD heh, ok
It was a assert shortcut, which is why in Release mode stuff inside the assert was not being run and started this in the first place.
BUT, that still doesn't help me figure out if I should throw or not on invalid stuff.
I want the gauruntee that it'll work as properly as possible and violently alert the user if something goes wrong.
Xeo
Xeo
00:49
Assert in debug, and if the user wants safety, they have the Try versions
Btw, y u no boost::optional for the Try versions?!
... Uh. I still don't know how to use boost::optional >__>
Is it like C#'s ? type, like int? ?
Xeo
Xeo
Yes
@ThePhD sortof, yes
Xeo
Xeo
Also, the non-Try version shouldn't wrap the Try version, if you can help it. IMHO.
@Xeo depends on if the Try version adds overhead (but probably you're right)
00:51
It's wrapping the try versions right now.
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck Well, it has "Try" in the name so it has checks. :P
@ThePhD make it not do that in release mode
Try returns success, and non-try just calls try and asserts on failure.
Okay, I've made it not do that in release mode.
Xeo
Xeo
2 mins ago, by Xeo
Also, the non-Try version shouldn't wrap the Try version, if you can help it. IMHO.
I know that it currently wraps the Try version, but I think it shouldn't.
I earned the "Nice Answer" badge today! Thanks @TonyTheLion!
00:54
@MooingDuck I got one on meta today. :)
Okay.
So, the program works perfectly
at /Od
Now, let's crank it up to /O1
@Mysticial Me too.
Then again, it's the only answer I have on meta.
ahaha
on THAT one
@MooingDuck @Xeo I have both operator[] and ParameterAt, should I unify their behavior and make them both non-throwing (non-asserting)? Or should At do checks whereas operator[] doesn't (I also have Try versions too, so... I dunno)?
Xeo
Xeo
First, assert doesn't hurt to confirm preconditions, so throw it in for debug
On the others, welp, that's for you to decide I think. :) Do you want to model something like std::vector, which has non-throwing operator[] and throwing at?
And for the Try things... I have a feeling if ParameterAt throws, there's some redundancy involved somewhere.
01:09
I mean... I have the Try versions and I even have a bool-returning ContainsParameter method, so there's plenty of safety if the user wants it.
So I guess with all that safety, having non-throwing At and operator[] isn't... so.. .bad?
Hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh‌​hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh‌​hhhhhhh
BLAH it won't throw.
Fuck the police, checking is for Try yo.
01:21
To sum up my reaction to Release mode:
@ThePhD Sometimes I wonder who stars your retarded things.
It's usually one person because it only has 1 star half the time.
@ThePhD Also you watch Game Grumps but not Extra Credits?
For shame.
FOR SHAME.
user1357851
01:36
anyone here develop in Android?
@Rapptz It probably is one retarded person,b ut meh.
What do I know? :D
@Rapptz Also GAME GRUMPS IS AWESOME and @EtiennedeMartel recommended it to me.
@ThePhD Arhem.
As much as I like egoraptor and jon tron I don't like Let's Plays that much
They're not very good players of the games they play.
I'm still ultra sad about their Banjo Kazooie playthrough. =[
WOOO
AND WE'RE BACK TO 0xBADF000 !
suppose I have a virtual function and I want to override it to do nothing, how can I do that?
01:42
.... Override it and then put nothing in the function...?
yeah I did that but it gives me "unused parameter" warning
thought there would be a nicer way of doing it that gives me no warnings :(
Then remove the parameter name.
And you'll be fine.
I wonder why I didn't get these warnings until I put it in an IDE :(
Probably modifications of the command line.
Probably compiling with -pedantic and shit.
I compile with -Wall -pendatic
01:45
Do you?
DO YOU?!
Hello all.
DO YOU EVEN LIIIIIFT?!
yes
Oh. Well, okay.
Hopefully I can install QtCreator on Linux.
it's pretty cool.
I like it, 9.5/10 would use
01:47
I'lllll be the judge of that.
Downloading and installing~
@Rapptz lol
@Rapptz Looks like VS 2010.
put a u after it
@Mysticial oh no I know the warning
I was just showing PhD how it looks
01:51
ah
Looks fine on Windows.
But does it Lift on Linux, is the real question.
Since it's made with Qt it looks the same
What the fuck
lol
Try Now ?
They expect me to pay for this shit?
01:53
no
get the open source version
Maybe I'm at the wrong place...
I prefer qmake to CMake btw
but in order to get qmake you have to download the whole SDK :C
VS 2012 support only in windows 8. :( (here)
@MarkGarcia Secondary Supported Platforms
@Rapptz Oh. I see.
01:58
Still kinda lame though
LOL
WHAT THE SHIT
I CAN'T INSTALL QT CREATOR IN A PLACE WITH A SPACE IN THE PATH NAME?
Jesus christ, what the hell is this, 1999?
Also, it says I'm getting qt-creator-2.6.2
yeah that's weird.
That version number seems.. ... really fucking low.
@ThePhD Already downloaded? Pretty fast.
Qt is older than standardised C++ btw
@ThePhD Qt is at 5.0.1 and creator is at 2.6.2
02:05
You say that now, bt....
@ScottW Why's that?
I hate the FBX SDK.
Fuck it in its fucking mouth.
I bet this is why assimp doesn't support FBX, because it's a terrible unruly MONSTER.
FBX is the PSD of 3D formats
The thing is, it's deceptively easy to use.
But for some fucking retardedly stupid reason it goes NUTS in Release Mode.
@ThePhD assimp? Why don't you try compiling in mingw a static library version in debug mode.
:)
02:10
I'd rather compile and mess with MinGW than work with FBX.
~50MB .a file. 50MB large!
Which doesn't give you its source.
Which breaks in all kinds of retarded ways in Release mode, in ways my brain can't even comprehend.
@ThePhD MinGW is surprisingly.. kinda neat.
Until you interop it with DirectX, but that's a whole other mess.
That's a separate issue.
02:16
ALRIGHT
I HAVE CONFIRMED IT IS NOT MY FAULT
IT'S FBX
IT'S THESE MOTHER FUCKER FAT FUCKERS FAULTS
@ThePhD Use COLLADA.
I don't have that option.
And COLLADA is XML. I really don't want to spread my legs to be raped by a billion laughs.
Meow.
... Image not found. how lovely.
nice 404
^ See, look at those internals.
LOOK AT THEM.
eSuccess(0), but mImplementation is 0xbaadf0000
NOT MY FUCKING FAULT FBX CAN'T GET ITS SHIT TOGETHER
@ThePhD mReadLockCount = 72033440. eh?
02:22
I don't know, man. =/
I'm just tired of trying to fix FBX.
It doesn't pull this shit with /Ob, but to expect to run my game with 0 optomizations is just fucking ridiculous
TIL the FBX SDK compiles with _SECURE_SCL=0
g++.exe master race
I'd help but I know shit about fbx
What the fuck is FBX?
without googling, something to do with 3d modeling
02:32
@EtiennedeMartel @ThePhD Knows the meaning. Uh, Foo Bar Xchange format?
@EtiennedeMartel It's a file format used for storing 3D model & animation data
@EtiennedeMartel Autodesk's shit.
Proprietary format that Maya and 3ds Max and MotionBuilder use.
All my artists are using it to export their shit.
is it weird that I expected Etienne to know?
Does BB have 3D Anims? If so, what do you guys use?
Because I'm about to just drop FBX support altogether.
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe Wasn't the problem exactly that he didn't see any performance increase even though he expected one?
02:33
@ThePhD Our own custom format.
We got a 3ds max plugin that exports stuff.
That explains it.
So I need to write a 3ds Max and a Maya export plugin.
This is gonna be.... delicious.
Who wrote your 3ds max plugin?
Should I be asking yuo questions or should I just go out hunting?
Alrighty, I'm going out hunting.
It was a bit of a pain because the managed plugin API for 3ds max is incomplete.
Python?
or MAXScript?
02:36
.NET
Oh.
I can see that going terrible.
FBX doesn't even have .NET bindings of any kind, you'd have to P/Invoke C++ stuff.
@Xeo Nah. I think he moaned about the CPU load being significantly higher at the same time. Well, I reversed the measurements, because I'm not interested in 'average loads' with <N> msec sleeps. Too arbitrary
Hm.
Erm guys. What is "posting in line"? Is that like this (inline with the text) or ... oneboxed (inline with the chat)? /cc @thecoshman @TonyTheLion
So, going back to the BIg List of File Formats I made a long time ago...
.x (Legacy DirectX File Format: Fairly good for Games, A bit Old, fairly fast loading)
.md3 (Public Domain idSoftware Format : Good for games, fairly fast loading)
.3ds (Legacy 3dstudio Max File Format; Alright for games, fairly fast loading, still use)
.mdx (Warcraft III Model Data; Fairly Robust, made for Games/Binary use)
.fbx (Autodesk Propreitary Format; SDK has been released)
.dae (OpenCOLLADA format. Really huge. Really painful, but ultra-robust)
- Unpopular -
.md4 (Only used in Quake III Arena; not really popular)
I've got a lot of options, it looks like.
02:41
@ThePhD No mention of .obj?
@MarkGarcia Any dumby can make .OBJ support.
Also, .OBJ .MTL support is done.
THat's how I tested my static meshes.
@ThePhD You have some fucked up casing
IMPAHTANT
.OBJ doesn't have a specification for skeletal animations, and I'd kill myself before importing an OBJ file and using ti realistically in a game.
02:43
I've used dcm for static meshes. They got exported from Blender with a plugin
.OBJ and .MTL were meant more for ray-tracing, not for games.
@sehe dcm ?
Ah come to think of it, it was prolly proprietary. They had their own tri-stripper step going too. And it was C. Long time ago
Yeah, it's not really out there.
I mean, FBX works in debug mode.
Maybe I can just make a non-optomized offline converter from FBX to some custom format.
I know for a fact if I try to convince my artists to use something else they will flip tables
And I really don't have time to try and convince non-technical people the issues of Release mode...
user1357851
Umm I am making a soup with bacon shrimp mushroom and tomato
TIL Autodesk internally uses BitBucket's JIRA system for bug reporting.
Not that I care, I'm just here to steal the internals of FBX and see if I can compile it better myself.
02:50
@ThePhD Ogre last time, and now... f**king Autodesk?!! I wonder what's with JIRA.
What's wrong with JIRA?
@Rapptz Nothing's wrong. I just wonder why well established orgs are moving to JIRA. Sure it would be much better than their current solutions.
Woooohoohohooooow.
They use Akamai to distrubute their tiny digital binaries.
JIRA isn't that bad, I kinda like it better than GitHub's issue tracker
Fucking assholes.
At least there are direct downloads.
user1357851
02:54
Jira is now the standard for bug reporting
New Features

Visual Studio 2012 is now officially supported.
^ This changelog pleases me.
I should be able to statically link my program now.
user1357851
but it has started some 5 years ago
user1357851
I have been using it in the past 3 companies
Pretty Atlassian. Pretty darn good solutions.
@CatPlusPlus I went through teh asinine process of giving my soul to FBX to get the FBX 2014 SDK for VS2012. I will be updating all the dependencies and we'll also probably switch to static linking of the FBX SDK to save ourselves some DLL-copying headache.
If this doesn't fix my problems,
I'm jumping ship to Blizzard's MDX, the old .X, or just writing my own.

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