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12:00 AM
@LucDanton Not at all -- I'm saying that questioning unfounded assumptions (for only one example) is often good, but many people find it annoying anyway.
 
@JerryCoffin Well I'd say the questioning is the interesting part and the being annoying is more of a side-effect. What does it say about you that you consider it a bonus? :p
 
@JerryCoffin very silent I am sure... lots of awkward silence
 
@LucDanton I don't consider it particularly a bonus -- just a nearly inevitable side effect. IOW, I'm not saying that being annoying is particularly good in itself, but that quite a few things that are good will still annoy people.
@thecoshman That would probably depend on the amount of alcohol available.
 
@JerryCoffin I predict a bell curve :P
when in doubt, predict a bell curve
 
@thecoshman Probably a fair guess in this case too. Probably less talk when either totally sober or passed out. Of course, that's technically amount of alcohol consumed, not just what's available, but for many (especially people in their 20s or so) it can be difficult to separate the two.
 
12:08 AM
@JerryCoffin indeed
 
@BartekBanachewicz you'd be surprised how much invalid code MSVC will accept. Uncalled code is almost completely ignored by MSVC compiler :|
 
now... just need to convince a uni to fund this research and we can party learn
any hoops, time for me snuggle down for the night
see y'all
 
@thecoshman Congratulations, you've just rediscovered the origin of "liberal arts" degrees.
@thecoshman Later.
 
@doug65536 Isn't that a good thing?
Why bother processing code that never gets called? o_O
 
@ThePhD no, it locks you into their monopoly because real compilers won't accept it
 
12:12 AM
... I hardly see that as the case, because if you want to support Linux or other OSes you'll compile with Not-VC++.
 
@doug65536 Not really, and if you care about portability you virtually need to use at least a couple different compilers anyway (a compiler is allowed to accept all sorts of non-portable code, and VC++ is hardly the only one that does so).
 
In this day and age, using VC++ to build Windows code and MinGW to build not-Windows code is pretty much good work.
In the end, you'll have to compiler-macro or just write code that fits a subset of all the compilers you're working with.
 
they strategically omitted libraries that would enable your code to be portable to other compilers (std::thread/std::mutex/etc/etc). the syntax etc is way too permissive. So if you even attempt to make an MSVC program portable you run into a list of issues
 
.... Wait. I'm using std::thread and std::mutex right now. o_O
 
@doug65536 I doubt these are strategic omissions. Admittedly, I doubt MS considers them top priorities, but still doubt anybody's decided to omit them just to prevent portability.
 
12:15 AM
@doug65536 Then why does VS2012 ship those libraries?
 
they want you to hard-code to windows with InitializeCrititcalSection etc
 
why did they significantly increase their conformance over the previous decade?
plus, your theory is plain absurd- any fool could write a lock abstraction, it doesn't force you to Windows at all.
 
you haven't ported code away from msvc I guess
 
@doug65536 GCC has just as many compiler bugs and extensions.
 
@doug65536 Actually, I have ported code away from MSVC, and it's actually surprisingly less painful than I thought it would be.
I've even ported MSVC code to AVR-GCC (at least the non-Windows parts)
Then again, I do my best to hide away platform specific bits so that's not really a surprise.
 
12:20 AM
@JerryCoffin has a +1 instead of a -1, causing the rightmost 25% of nodes to never be balanced at all.
 
you know
 
Yeah, I generally hide anything to do with a specific operating system by several classes and functions...
 
fifty quid says that I can make unique_ptr behave as a scope_guard.
 
I'm even hiding the D3D and OpenGL APi under my own rendering classes and conglomerates, which may be a bit overengineering it, but, meh.
 
@doug65536 for templates yes, I don't know about non-template functions
oh, mSVC10 locked up for the first time on me
did I ever eat lunch? Lunchtime was five hours ago, and I forgot lunch.
 
12:24 AM
@MooingDuck I do that a lot...
Guis.
How should I collect all the potential source of keyboard input in my application?
 
@ThePhD events
 
Should my KeyboarState class just have a static std::vector<KeySource> Sources on it that I iterate over to get all the currently available states?
 
@ThePhD no, polling is bad
 
Erm. Well I mean, it's just that there can be multiple sources of keyboard input (e.g., virtual keyboard that's tap-on-screen vs. actual keyboard, or even a second plugged in USB keyboard).
I will be getting events from all these and storing them in the current KeyboardState, and then copying that out for others to use and play with and manipulate for its purposes, but...
It's just the actual Eventing itself. I don't know where to store / send it.
 
@ThePhD that's fine, they should all provide same or different events to your program, and your program should (A) handle them, or (B) translate them into a single event type and handle that.
@ThePhD store callbacks
std::function<void(const event&)> callback_type
 
12:33 AM
@ThePhD all keyboards appear as a single keyboard (in windows anyway, with GetAsyncKeyState/etc)
 
@MooingDuck So... the triggers for the events (the OS, a virtual keyboard, etc) will just take callbacks, and it'll call those callbacks when appropriate?
 
@ThePhD yeah, that's the easiest/best way
 
Hm.
Looks like a job for @Insilico's Callback stuff!
Or std::function, I guess that can work too.
 
if threading is an issue, then have the callback shove the event into a todo list, and have the "main" thread process the todo list.
 
I don't see myself multi-threading input.
 
12:36 AM
man
what is wrong with this guy
he's like, "Aaaah, unique_ptr can't do X", and then I pwn him by using it to do X
 
Though, if DirectInput gets unweidly, I'll stick it in a separate thread or just use lib_usb.
 
now he's like, "Aaaah, but unique_ptr can't do Y", and I'm like, "You really want to try this again? Cause I totally pwned you last round.".
 
if you aren't using force feedback or joysticks there is little use for directinput in windows imho
 
@doug65536 I plan on supporting PS3 controllers and XBox 360 controllers.
XInput is a million times weaker than DirectInput.
While DIrectInput is deprecated, it can handle more buttons and axes than XInput.
 
man
it's really annoying
 
12:39 AM
And it can handle things that aren't typed or signed like an XBox 360 Controller.
 
I have a really small section of beard on my chin that's nice and blonde
and the rest is horrible dark red
I want my nice red hair back :(
 
... So when you get old, your hair goes blonde?
That's pretty badass.
 
no
I used to have very orange fiery red hair
 
@DeadMG I say unique_ptr can't turn water into really good wine. Send me a case each of Petrus and Le Pin and I'll acknowledge your superior programming skills.
 
but it's really darkened over the last three years.
 
12:40 AM
@DeadMG Probably because you'be been inside so much.
Sunlight bleaches and lightens hair color.
 
@ThePhD As if I was inside less when younger.
also, that should imply that everyone in Africa would have lighter hair.
 
Oh. Well hey, it was my best guess. :c
 
whereas light hair tends to be primarily a very northern trait
 
@DeadMG Lighter shades of black is... ... black. xD
 
@ThePhD or you could get windows joystick input done in 5 minutes with joyGetPos.
 
12:42 AM
PIE IS GOOD um I mean hi
 
niiice. my tree class averages 5.83 rotates when inserting an element into a tree with ~275251 elements.
 
@doug65536 Have you seen Joy Info?
3 Axes and at most 32 buttons?
 
@ThePhD yes, I've used it. something wrong with it?
I know it's limited but trivially easy to get up and running
 
The PS3 Controller's entire pad can be measured in floats. They give you the individual pressure of each button, Shoulder and stick.
While it is nice, it's a little on the weak side and I think I can get a little more out of it.
@doug65536 Maybe JOYINFOEX might be more suitable, though?
Search for joyPosEx -> get joySex results
THanks, Google.
 
always use MSDN for WinAPI searches
 
12:47 AM
anyone else notice a bug in ideone when you edit code, the edit box scrolls up constantly all by itself?
 
I'm looking more for examples, because I need to know if I have to manually smash-poll getJoyPosEx or if it'll filter it into Window Messages for me.
Shit
These examples are fucking 1998.
 
i aqm xetremyl drun kriggntht now
3
and im going out wqidh me luck
3
 
usb joysticks are polled by the underlying driver anyway, regardless of how event driven you try to make it. usb is based on polling
 
that is alkl
 
12:54 AM
@doug65536 not at the CPU level
 
there is no way for a USB device to asynchronously request service, it has to be asked whether it needs service by the host
 
@doug65536 not in user code
 
@MooingDuck repeating it doesn't make it make any sense
 
@doug65536 according to common sense and this post USB polling is done at the hardware level
 
12:59 AM
@ThePhD great
 
oh the cat is drunk
 
@TonyTheLion he said so didn't he?
 
yes
in a garbled kinda way
 
Awww
The window messages only go for the first 2 connected joysticks
so I'll just have to open up a separate thread and queue up polled information =[
 
no! use a ThreadPoolTimer
 
user1357851
1:03 AM
 
don't "waste" a thread sitting there blocked all the time
 
@doug65536 Sounds windows-specific and complicated.
 
yeah, since linux has next to no efficient threading support, make a thread
 
Ugh.
Why don't they just define more Joystick Messages?
Or better yet, make it so that there's only 1 set of joystick messages and the ID is in one of the params? ._.
At the moment, just to get it up and running, I'll single-thread it.
 
1:10 AM
=l
 
I'm looking at WinUSB, does Windows not really have any event based USB API? That's just absurd!
 
@MooingDuck Doesn't seem like it.
USB is usually polling.
 
maybe you can wait on the pipe?
 
That sounds complicated and beyond the scope of my pea-brain at the moment, so you'll have to break it down. :c
 
USB is a bit absurd really. I think that absurdity leaks over into USB APIs
 
1:14 AM
Lol
Look at the information from these messages:
It's completely absurd.
"THe joystick movement from the top-left of the client area window..."
What? Since when has a joystick pointed directly to a client-area window?
 
just make a bunch of cases that fall through and check wparam
 
Noty, I'm just going to poll directly and filter at the JOYINFOEX structure.
Seems 9000% more sane.
If it gets to slow things down, I will put it in a thread and queue up changes myself, but that's about the extent of it.
These messages are broken as shit.
 
I've never even seen joystick poll in a profile - it's down in the 0.00% noise
 
Let's hope so.
 
@ThePhD Now that you mention it, a lot of windows messages have coordinates relative to the window that receives them, and I have no idea how that happens.
 
1:21 AM
@MooingDuck Probably some general background math, but even still.... what? Pointer coordinates for a joystick?
Baffling. Absolutely baffling. :c
 
Yeah, I never considered how to do Windows event based coding without having an actual window. Never realized there was an issue there
 
In the end you'd need to poll GetMessage/PeekMessage anyway, right?
but you already have a message pump, so it cancels out I guess
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/4509521/does-getmessage-need-a-gui Windows won't send messages to your app without a window. :(
 
that's not strictly true, you can PostThreadMessage by thread id (assuming the thread has "touched" PeekMessage/GetMessage)
but most APIs don't send thread messages
 
Windows won't send messages to your thread without a Windows Message Queue, created by Windows for the calling thread upon its first call to a WMQ-related API, (GetMessage usually).
 
1:30 AM
I farted
and time for me to sleep.
 
yay for random unrelated things
 
anyone here that compiled barteks minicraft project?
 
1:48 AM
helo
 
hi
pretty quiet right now :)
 
im prett drunk right now
 
@CatPlusPlus didd ebrythng go wwel?
 
twas fun
 
:P
 
1:50 AM
hi
did yo usee the dog
 
what the.
 
can gcc use "lib" files? (not archives, distributed lib files, presumably built with msvc or something)
doesn't work. didn't think it would
 
21
Q: Add retro filters for code

Konrad RudolphTriggered by a question where the code was provided via a link to Instagram and by the existence of the code hosting service Instacode, I’d like to suggest implementing hipstery image filers for code posted on Stack Overflow: However, it’s obviously (duh!) bad for usability to just replace the...

Status Declined :(
 
Lol
Pwned.
 
2:11 AM
omg llvm y u such a fucking pain in the ass to build
 
2:27 AM
I think the best way to go about this
is to keep one Pad/Keyboard/Mouse state per each device present
and when you do polling, to copy or present the current state to the requester.
 
2:40 AM
@CatPlusPlus Hi cat.
 
I think you missed him.
In all his drunk glory.
 
Drunk people aren't all that interesting.
 
4 bytes * 256 = 1024 bytes
That's not too many to be constantly copying around, right?
 
Man.
 
@ThePhD Depends.
If you can avoid the copy, do it.
 
2:52 AM
I slept at 6 PM and woke up at 9:30 PM.
I feel like I just fucked up my sleep schedule
 
o_O
Why did you wake up so early?
... Or sleep so early?
That's like practically morning.
 
What kind of sick fuck sleeps at 6 PM
Well, me in this case.
But I was tired and wanted to nap but ended up oversleeping :(
 
Lol
 
@Rapptz Someone who's very tired?
 
Nap2stronk
 
2:54 AM
stronk eh
 
Indeed.
 
So apparently there's a guiness world record for most amount of kicks per minute
and the person who has it is a girl
 
Hm, two days until Crysis 3.
@Rapptz So?
 
@Rapptz Hopefully not aimed at guy's crotches.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Interesting twist of events.
 
2:58 AM
Alright, so I think I have the 2 functions that I will need to drive Keyboard State.
 
@EtiennedeMartel 15 days until Tomb Raider
 
static void ManipulateState ( Keys key, bool state, int32 deviceid = 0 );
static KeyboardState GetState ( int32 deviceid = 0 );
Satisfactory nod.
 
@Borgleader You mean Tomb Raider: BSDM Edition?
 
No, Tomb Raider: Made (in very small part) by me edition
 
Blehhh.
 
3:00 AM
@ThePhD what language is that?
 
Is your name gonna be in the credits? What is Eidos' policy towards interns in credits?
 
I have no idea which way I should do this.
@Rapptz Uh. C++ ?
 
what the hell is an int32?
 
A 32-bit integer...?
 
Hint: It's int32_t
 
3:01 AM
@Rapptz Um... it's pretty self-explanatory?
 
_t is for weenies.
I removed it.
 
@EtiennedeMartel They had interns in the DX:HR credits IIRC. But I think they'll be using Crystal Dynamics' policy and I don't know what theirs is.
 
@ThePhD Don't do that.
 
@Rapptz :3c
 
int_fast32_t
 
3:03 AM
A fast, sexy integer for all your math needs.
Mmm, delicious.
 
It exists
I just don't know what it does
 
Me neither...
But AARGH
I don't know how to make this feel right.
q_q
 
wtf ... 72 of the projects for LLVM aren't building
 
Wow.
Get fucked. o_O
 
time to go find some prebuilt stuff
 
3:07 AM
@Borgleader only 72? lol
 
Out of 100 or so
 
building is always painful. that's why we're so impressed when something actually builds without screwing around
 
linking is annoying too.
That's why I wish an ideal Modules system came to C++ so we can distribute everything as an easy module since the current header only approach is so painful.
 
lol ideal system
 
50 bucks says they'll bork the module system somehow.
 
3:10 AM
there is no ideal system
 
And implementations will do shitty things with it.
 
they all fail at somethign
 
fuck you man
Python's system is beautiful
:(
 
Python and C# got a pretty good thing going with the way they do it.
 
It is but I'm sure it fails at something
I actually want to copy it for my not going to get off the ground language
 
3:12 AM
If C++ takes the idea it won't have the issue that Python has.
Because Python's issue comes from the fact you can't compile it.
 
DIE CISPA >:(
 
=> from std.iostream import std.cout
10/10 would bang etc etc
too bad we're never getting it
 
Lol
 
Don't deny! You'd love it too. :(
 
My one true love, really
is using namespace.
I would like a using namespace that doesn't pollute everything and beyond.
Also headerless everything.
Write once, compile once, be done.
 
3:19 AM
it's legacy limitations caused by having barely any memory
 
I'll make a language called CFlat.
Basically C++ with modules, a decent using namespace, and write-once support.
 
@ThePhD using std::cout
etc
 
@Rapptz Lame.
 
It works.
 
That also corrupts everything beyond that header unless put inside the class.
Strangely enough, you can't using namespace inside of a class.
 
3:23 AM
from std.iostream import std.cout as cout
:D
 
So gross and long.
And how many imports am I going to have to write for a bunch of regular standard library stuff?
 
just one.
import std.iostream
that's just selective importing
 
See? That's better.
 
so you don't include the whole thing for just one function
 
Hm.
PadState is going to be trickier....
 
3:25 AM
Going to restart my internet since it's blowing right now.
 
Hokay.
 
I like the idea of making a new language. It's daunting but it's interesting.
I'm less enthused about making the libraries behind it though
I have a feeling I'm going to be heavily influenced by the .NET stuff behind C#.
I'm a shitty designer
 
We know.
but to be fair, a lot of people are
 
Design is that thing no one ever gets good at
Ho shit, I followed another procedure for building LLVM, I went from 72 projects that failed to build, to only 3.
 
are you making a new language?
 
3:43 AM
@Rapptz I'm trying.
 
Good luck
 
thx
Worst of all I decided it should have a JIT compiler
(I say worst of all because it makes things harder, apparently )
I guess I'll get really into it once I can do a simple HelloWorld or something.
For now I'm reading PDF from a Compiler class from Stanford to refresh my memory
and I'm playing around with QUEX and LLVM
 
0
Q: idiomatic fallbacks in expression sfinae

PotatoswatterExpression SFINAE is a very handy way to write several alternative functions to do the same thing, and pick the best one which compiles. You mention the critical expression(s) in the function prototype, and if they're invalid, the prototype is ignored and another one will hopefully be picked. Th...

 
Photoshop 1.0.1's source code has been released! Wow.
 
@MarkGarcia Time to fire up MPW…
 
3:56 AM
Aww. PASCAL and assembly.
 
Macintosh Programmer's Workshop or MPW, is a software development environment for the Classic Mac OS, written by Apple Computer. For Macintosh developers, it was one of the primary tools for building applications for System 7.x and Mac OS 8.x and 9.x. Initially, MPW was sold as a commercial product but Apple eventually made it a free download. On Mac OS X, it was replaced by the Project Builder IDE that was eventually transformed into Xcode. Design MPW provided a command line environment and tools, including 68k and PowerPC assemblers as well as Pascal, C and C++ compilers. The shell...
 
I'm not planning on building it, though. Still, it's really good to see what's behind such a great classic software! (haha. If only I can fully decipher the codes. I can only guess)
 
error C2864: 'lld::elf::DynamicFile<ELFT>::SymAtomPair::_symbol' : only static const integral data members can be initialized within a class
Well damn...
Why did they make the procedure to build it in VS11 if it doesn't actually succeed...
wait a minute
this shouldn't compile at all
wtf
 
C++11 relaxed the requirement to literal types, not integral. As long as it's constexpr, anyway.
 
struct SymAtomPair {
    const typename llvm::object::ELFObjectFile<ELFT>::Elf_Sym *_symbol =
        nullptr;
    const SharedLibraryAtom *_atom = nullptr;
  };
Is this legal?
 
4:06 AM
Yes, those are nonstatic initializers, another C++11 feature. They help define the implicit default constructor.
 
Which I'm guessing VS11 doesn't support
 
@Potatoswatter There is no function declaration/prototype/whatever in your code.
 
@LucDanton exercise for the reader.
typename std::enable_if< is_whatever< blah, blurg >::value >::type fn();
 
@Potatoswatter template<typename T /* or whatever needs to be passed/deduced */, typename = decltype(/* expression to test */)> R foo(/* whatever */);
 
@LucDanton Yes, and how do you define the fallback used when the test fails?
 
4:10 AM
template<typename... Ignored> doesnt_matter foo(Ignored const&..., ...);
If you need to trigger a hard-error when this overload is called you can define as deleted or static_assert, as usual.
 
I know what a hard-error is now that I've read the robots blog post!
 
Just adding a va_args style ... does the trick? I'm pretty sure I tried that… doesn't it screw up deduction or something?
 
#c++ #proud #fuckhashtagsoutsideoftwitter
 
Who knows?
It may also be possible to add further 'ranked' overload subsets with some int = 0, ... and long = 0, ... magic, but I've never seriously investigated in those directions. One fallback has always been enough.
It might also be beneficial to refactor those dirty hacks in an appropriately named type (where the constructor performs the trick instead), assuming of course that it's at all possible. Again, not investigated there.
 
4:49 AM
how do you turn stylesheets back on? my careers page looks like a web page from 1990
 
5:13 AM
I got it working properly again. the careers site is full of bugs. would I report that on meta stackoverflow?
 
user1357851
good 2 know
 
yeah I hate social network sites too. full of ppl spling stf lik ths
 
user1357851
not social network, networking with real people face to face
 
I think you worry a bit too much, but that's fine :)
as long as you don't say anything psycho like death threats or racist garbage, you're pretty safe
 
user1357851
lol, I think they really had roles to fill
 
user1357851
5:26 AM
Someone should open an restaurant, with Hash print on the table & a number beneath the word 'Key' as the table number
 
@LightnessRacesinOrbit hi
 
yeah, now that you mention it, I can't remember seeing any restaurant or bar meant for tech people.
@Telkitty hash table. lol, I finally get it
I'm trying to play a game of TF2, but every server it puts me on is full of extremely bad players
 
user1357851
bad in what ways?
 
user1357851
5:35 AM
@LightnessRacesinOrbit was going to reply but then I remember I am not a kid
 
user1357851
good try
 
bad aim, standing still, hiding, waiting way at the end for the bomb to come (basically giving up the round). picking stupid classes, running at huge groups holding fire... the list goes on and on lol
I'm old enough not to mind being called a kid (36)
people think FPS games are actually a graphical version of whack-a-mole. sorry but you dont just run around and shoot at the first thing you see
 
5:55 AM
ok it was great bye
HI! I have come back to present this gift
Interfaces should almost always be used as pointers. — Justin Meiners 32 secs ago
okay bye
 

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