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20:05
hey folks
Wow, my little Ambrosia is working nicely
hmm
it would be so much simpler to implement various primitives before implementing this stuff.
oh well
I've been learning c++ for like 6 months now. Anyone know how much longer its going to take to figure out wtf you're all talking about?
depends on which source you're learning from.
user142019
How are you learning C++?
20:08
But it seems my pipe reading is not very good. Must move pipe reading into busy-loop
Sam's teach yourself book
user142019
If it’s cplusplus.com or a book by Schildt you can better go kill yourself than continuing to learn C++ that way.
and i've been scouring these forums and asking questions like crazy
user142019
lol okay
these are not forums
user142019
20:09
2091
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are released every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a good C++ book...

*forums, not these forums
I briefly checked the book's content
and it seems rather bad.
sweet, more books!
haha, thanks
user142019
All C++ books are bad since they teach a bad technology.
hopefully taking classes in the spring, just trying to get some kind of foundation
user142019
20:10
Though some are better than others. :P
user142019
> Hopefully taking classes.
user142019
I’d rather like, die. lol
I wouldn't be hopeful if I were you.
user142019
Unless the teacher is Fred. ^^
admittedly, Fred can probably write a trivial program without invoking memory leaks or UB.
20:11
you think taking classes is the wrong way to go?
most lecturers teach "C++" but in reality, it's basically C.
user142019
Fred doesn’t teach pointers at all in his C++ course, for example.
@Zoidberg wow
user142019
(Which is for beginners from what I understood.)
that's quite awesome
user142019
20:12
More like an intro to C++. :P
@Zoidberg Right, but a very bright student once returned an iterator to a local vector ;)
user142019
lol
part of the problem is exactly this, so hard to figure out where to start
thought classes would give me some kind of direction
user142019
I was thinking of adding RAII to my C# implementation as a language extension, which uses IDisposable.
You have a C# implementation?
user142019
20:13
I’m working on it.
Have you implemented iterators yet (yield return)?
i'll take care of that for you if you'd like
user142019
@FredOverflow No, I’m working on the lexing part.
@EindacorDS They do, it's just usually in completely the wrong direction.
20:14
@EindacorDS It took me several years.
i barely understand pointers, but i'm pretty sure i can do whatever you just said you were thinking about doing
try the tutorials I wrote myself
haha, dammit, i don't need more cynicism in my life
@EindacorDS Do you understand the difference between the first element of a vector and the beginning of a vector?
excellent, I just learned that our product that just went beta uses _bstr_t to convert from UTF8 to UTF16. (Tip: _bstr_t doesn't know jack about UTF8)
user142019
20:15
@DeadMG those are pretty good. /cc @EindacorDS
@FredOverflow nope!
@FredOverflow i thought the first element was the beginning
@MooingDuck Better hope the Committee adopts my Unicode stuff.
@EindacorDS If you have an iterator to the beginning of a vector, and you increment that iterator, you now point to the second element. But if you increment the first element, it changes from (let's say) 42 to 43.
maybe i'm confused, i understand that the first element of an array is whatever[0]
user142019
Arrays. :(
20:16
@EindacorDS the thing at the top part of your body is your head, but the top of your body is a position, not an object.
@Zoidberg Hm... I think I should learn Haskell once again
user142019
I think you should do that too.
user142019
And influence PHP by it. :P
Can someone make me a room owner? lol
@Zoidberg S. Harper? Like the Prime Minister of Canada?
user142019
20:16
@FredOverflow Yes.
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel TIL.
@FredOverflow Could do, but probably won't.
will definitely do those tutorials
whoa, I'm on the frequently in room list!
@Zoidberg Will you? ;)
20:17
@EindacorDS people talk about some advanced stuff here sometimes, don't worry about it
wait, where's SBI on the list? What happened here?
user142019
@FredOverflow I cannot.
@FredOverflow Only owners can make other people owners.
user142019
Wait, I can. @FredOverflow let me make you a room owner.
@MooingDuck He chose to remove himself.
20:17
@doug65536 yeah, and i don't mean to hijack it to be a beginner's lesson
@DeadMG from the frequent list?
@MooingDuck No, from owner's list.
@doug65536 all the beginners ones weren't active. i figure it might help just to be steeped in the complicated stuff
he's not on frequent list because he actually spends time on his job now.
@DeadMG huh
20:18
@DeadMG So he has a life now? What a loser.
user142019
@FredOverflow I made you a room owner, as you wished.
@Zoidberg pretty sure i should be room owner too
let me guess: just not of this room.
@EindacorDS no
user142019
permalink — STUPID GOOGLE CHROME Y U NO COPY HYPERLINK Y U COPY TEXT THIS MAKES NO SENSE YOU PIECE OF JUNK
20:19
@MooingDuck fair enough
user142019
:P
@Zoidberg because you told it to?
user142019
It says "copy".
user142019
Way too ambiguous.
20:19
@EindacorDS Fred has 36042 messages in this room and we know him. You have 22 messages, and we don't know you.
@DeadMG lol
@MooingDuck oh, i'm totally not worthy of being an owner.... i'm just very entitled
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel Meh, -5/10 won’t bang.
user142019
Not very sexy at all!
20:21
@Zoidberg He's also a born again Christian.
@Zoidberg How did your date go, or did that no happen yet?
I'm just happy to have a prime minister that speaks like he knows how to speak english!
user142019
@FredOverflow not yet. This weekend.
hmm, coworker changed some of my atot into CA2WEX<30>, not sure what that is...
most canadian prime ministers have a heavy nearly-unintelligible french accent
@MooingDuck surprisingly I found it on msdn
20:24
@doug65536 yeah, I just noticed that it's a standard something or other...
hmmm.
Remarks: ...use CA2TEX, CA2CTEX, CT2WEX, CT2CWEX, or CA2W in your code [instead].
ah, similar to "tiny vector" implementations I've seen. it has a local buffer so it can bypass the heap for short strings
perhaps my life could be significantly simplified by another Clang source code modification.
@doug65536 small buffer optimization = SBO
20:26
@doug65536 Harper is Albertan, so no.
@MooingDuck thanks, another acronym :)
user142019
Room’s orphaned forever!
@doug65536 I first read that as unintelligent french accent. I was about to insult the shit out of you.
YESSSSS
20:29
PRECIOUSSSSS
Last francophone PM we had was Jean Chrétien. That was 10 years ago.
@jalf We wo. We definitely do.
awww, shit, I accidentlaly pushed "No" instead of "Cancel" when it asked me if I wanted to save my changes.
Please could somebody tell me who to email when I cannot post on meta. Thanks.
@EdHeal What did you do, hmm?
20:31
ah whew... nothing was lost.
It is not in the FAQ
@EdHeal Were you banned?
Ethienne de - Cannot think why.
y u no use autocomplete?
@EdHeal Why can't you post on meta? What's going on?
20:33
Might have been a little awkward. Just would like to argue my case
I think I have a good reputation on Stackoverflow. You can see for yourself.
Reputation doesn't mean you won't get banned.
And meta != SO. afaik
How do I make sure a statement is executed in C++? Is there a better way than this?
Yes I know that. But why no email address in the FAQ to contact.
switch (some_random_bool)
{
case true:
case false:
default:
    // Just making 100% sure this gets executed!
    very_important_statement();
}
@EdHeal Because there's generally no need to.
20:35
@FredOverflow put it right after the switch?
msvc has the __finally hack.
using fall through in a switch is a recipe for disaster
someone posted a thing that guarantees a lamba will run, RAII style, yesterday in this chat
@Borgleader That sound very dangerous, what if something already happens inside the switch? ;)
Etienne - How would one rectify my position?
20:36
Woa, on Meta, out of the 8 questions, 5 were closed as duplicates, and there's another one with -23.
@EdHeal I don't even know what your position is.
@FredOverflow Well how is that any better, say the case goes in true and throws an exception, your default doesn't get executed either...
Yeah, my joke probably wasn't that awesome.
Well Etienne (BTW a lovely name) I do not know why I cannot post. \my position it that I would like to know why and how to rectify it.
@EdHeal Did your left mouse button stop working?
@FredOverflow - Eh?
20:41
You need that one to ask questions on stack overflow. That's what you were asking about, weren't you?
he was probably question banned from Meta.
Is there no easy way to check this?
@DeadMG - Why? no explanation.
@Borgleader - Pray tell
20:44
Jason shows up again and blows the party.
I actually hate the guy as much as I admire him
@doug65536 DeadMG and I both did
@EdHeal Well to me it's obvious. You half of your meta questions are duplicates. And one of them has a -23 rep.
With that track record you'd get question banned on SO too
@MooingDuck No, you did, I simplified it a lot, that's all.
@DeadMG I posted one and you posted a simplified version, yes.
@Borgleader Half being dupes is a problem, but -23 is different.
and then I went on to call it "worthless", repeatedly.
so, I mean, no offense, but I'd rather you kept my name away from that stuff.
20:47
heh, fair enough
so
time to kill myself rebuilding Clang once again
yeah that's painful
@DeadMG Is -23 worst or better than half-dupes?
@Borgleader It's, relatively, irrelevant. Remember, downvotes on meta are "I disagree", not "You suck".
ahh ok
20:49
@Borgleader - no reason to ban somebody when they are trying to learn the ropes.
@EdHeal Being new doesn't excuse you from searching meta before posting.
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... was only a recommendation. Look how "most" people/books did it. Anyway you could also name your class cOlOr, but this does not increase readability. I would prefer code that is easy to read and follows a convention most other programmers use, too. I don't know what your bubble is - I can only speak for mine. (google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/cppguide.xml#Naming, possibility.com/Cpp/CppCodingStandard.html) — Beachwalker 7 hours ago
:(
@R.MartinhoFernandes well what
leave the guy and his conventions alone
sorry, but i have one more beginner question then i'll shut it: i have a version of VS 2010, in your opinion(s), would it work against me or for me to use it while learning c++, as opposed to a more basic compiler? is it better to learn by coding with notepad or something, that doesn't highlight errors for you?
if he keeps the classes namespaced, i see no reason for them not to start with lowercase
20:51
there's "Conventions", and then there's "The Google Style Guide".
@EindacorDS Some idiots insist you shouldn't use proper tools, but I see no reason why not.
@EindacorDS On windows use VS2012. On linux use Clang and vim. Native tools to the system usually work best
@BartekBanachewicz and if i can't acquire vs2012?
@EindacorDS Visual C++ Express 2012
@EindacorDS The express edition is free.
@BartekBanachewicz great, i'll pick it up
thanks people, i appreciate it
20:53
@Borgleader VS = visual studio = $$$. VC++ = free
@BartekBanachewicz free=good
@EindacorDS well.. I have Ultimate both at home and in work, and it's neat. Plus, I wouldn't be able to install ICC onto VC++ I guess
@BartekBanachewicz I'm pretty sure you can get VC# for free and all the other ones for free. In the end you'll have "VS"
It's just separate installs
@Borgleader VS is more than sum of all express editions
@BartekBanachewicz Fine, my mistake.
All I meant was Express edition -> Free
20:55
@BartekBanachewicz are you saying that VC++ is the express edition? Because that'd be wrong.
which ever language were talking about
@Borgleader - I agree - but does not mean people should ban you from the park.

Seems a rather childish.
@MooingDuck VC++EE?
@BartekBanachewicz VC++ is the actual compiler. Visual Studio is the IDE. There are free versions of VS.
@MooingDuck No.
20:55
@EdHeal No, it keeps you and others from repeatedly posting duplicates.
@MooingDuck MSVCC is the compiler.
It should be a temporary ban anyway
@BartekBanachewicz quick google search confirms what you say, I was misinformed. Carry on.
@BartekBanachewicz The Visual C++ compiler is the compiler.
@MooingDuck hmm not quite. You were right about VS, since the naming changed. They are now named Visual Studio Express Products
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hence VCC. not VC
20:57
ok, so..... Visuall C++ Express 2012 is what i want, right?
@EindacorDS yes (You have Windows Vista or better right?)
@EindacorDS yup.
awesome
@MooingDuck i do indeed
@MooingDuck Tautology much? ;)
@MooingDuck i'm running windows ME, of course
20:58
@EindacorDS If you're at university, check if you are eligible for full Studio.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I can't install VC++2012 because I have XP at work and home
Everyone has Windows Vista or better.
@MooingDuck that really sucks. Also, you didn't get the joke
even VS professional doesn't have a profiler. WPT is all you need though if you know what you're doing and not profiling managed code
@MooingDuck That was a joke.
20:58
@BartekBanachewicz nah, no student discounts for me
@Borgleader - I just hope that you do not make any mistakes in life. Also when you do make a mistake I hope that person does have a bit more compassion. Otherwise they would appear to you as a bully in their pen.
@doug65536 What's WPT?
windows performance toolkit. aka xperf
@EdHeal he was in your favor, dude.
@doug65536 I am using intel profiler anyway :P

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