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user142019
15:00
I want identity recipe for autocrafting table. :<
So, did I mention I hate Flash?
user142019
There are people who don't?
14 mins ago, by jalf
SCREW YOU FLASH
@BartekBanachewicz Well, allow me to point it out again, then. :)
15:01
@Zoidberg Undoubtedly -- probably no more than 1% of the world even knows what it is.
@jalf I thought you used only the error list.
user142019
lol
@R.MartinhoFernandes that would make VS pretty unusable
user784668
@BartekBanachewicz VS is pretty unusable anyway.
@Fanael so is Vim. get lost.
user784668
15:05
@BartekBanachewicz Notepad is the best.
I use the Output window most of the time. I would use the Error List if the lines were expandable inline with the extra info or something.
@R.MartinhoFernandes If you click on an error in the Error List, the Output window jumps to that error
so you can easily get the extra info when you need it
while using the Error List as an overview
there's also probably a plugin for thiss
@DeadMG You've just discovered that Hacker News has no downvote button.
15:09
@jalf The Output Window and F8/Shift+F8 works fine for me. I don't like clicking :P
The Commando Pattern is used to get in and out quick, and get the job done. This pattern can break any encapsulation to accomplish its mission. It takes no prisoners.
lol
@FredOverflow You know what "going commando" means?
I do now :(
Xeo
Xeo
15:14
@FredOverflow sudo pattern?
sudo: pattern: Befehl nicht gefunden
user784668
@FredOverflow sudo pacman -S pattern
Die Anwendung »pacman« ist momentan nicht installiert.
Xeo
Xeo
German Linux.. pah.
lol
it's quite hilarious
15:18
Angry Linux
but honestly, I don't know how anyone can use a non-English system
Xeo
Xeo
I use German Windows, but only because I've been using Windows since forever. :)
Everything else, I preferrably install in English.
oh right
man, I need sleep
@Xeo "I suck but only because I've been sucking since forever :)"? :P
I'm so fucking tired today
15:19
@TonyTheLion It's the default, and I don't know how to change it. I simply never cared enough to find out.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes lol
@TonyTheLion Do you speak anything other than English?
Because that might be the reason.
@EtiennedeMartel Dutch, Flemish, German, (some French) and English
I'm no native English person
@FredOverflow Wait, Ubuntu defaults to German?
15:21
@TonyTheLion Right, forgot about that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Xubuntu asks me what keyboard I use and stuff, and of course I have a German keyboard, and I guess the rest follows from that.
I always think you're British for some reason.
@EtiennedeMartel lol
user784668
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ubuntu defaults to whatever you set it to.
@EtiennedeMartel You're not the first to think that
15:21
@FredOverflow Oh. That's annoying.
@TonyTheLion IOW, about the same number of languages as most Belgians...
@JerryCoffin indeed
Idea for becoming rich: Invent a keyboard with digraph and trigraph keys :)
user784668
@FredOverflow Compose key.
15:22
@FredOverflow You mean keys with trigraphs painted on them?
I mean one hotkey that will generate ??! for example.
Xeo
Xeo
@FredOverflow For Debian atleast, I could select keyboard layout independently of system language.
@FredOverflow That can (and should) be done in software. (well, should not)
user784668
@Xeo xkblayout
user142019
15:23
I am insane.
3
user142019
Everything is borked.
Status: Out for Delivery
WOAOAOAAOA
@R.MartinhoFernandes Don't you destroy my dreams!
Why pay for express shipping when you can still get two days standard shipping?
@Zoidberg We knew that already.
@EtiennedeMartel because you have to wait 24hrs less
15:25
@TonyTheLion And pay much more.
@EtiennedeMartel Just order one day earlier.
@EtiennedeMartel sometimes worth it
@EtiennedeMartel Look at it from the other direction: if you can wait an extra day for it, do you really need it at all?
@JerryCoffin well if you start looking at things that way...
Xeo
Xeo
Wtf. Inside of my vmware player, my caps lock key is remapped back to.. well, capslock. :| I mad.
15:27
I can wait. And use the money to buy beer instead.
@Xeo Ewwww. A capslock key that actually locked the caps? What were they thinking?
oh yea, you and beer are married, I forgot
@JerryCoffin Well, I can go one day without eating.
(See, I can make flawed analogies too)
@EtiennedeMartel I'd probably be better off if I went a week or two...
@Xeo I guess VMWare uses the lower-level stuffs.
15:29
@JerryCoffin Fasting requires preparation.
Some games do that shit too.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes It worked before, though.
Shouldn't pressing "Retry" in the "assertion failed" dialog start the debugger?
@TonyTheLion Aren't you Belgian?
@EtiennedeMartel Yes, and I like beer, but not in large amounts and not too often either.
Xeo
Xeo
15:32
@R.MartinhoFernandes Aye
This bitch just proceeds with crashing instead.
@TonyTheLion Same here.
My beer consumption during the last party I went to was... 5 beers.
I'm getting old.
@Xeo Hmm, it only works if the debugger is already attached.
@EtiennedeMartel If I drink 5 beers, you have to carry me home
Xeo
Xeo
Do you start with ctrl-F5? :P
15:34
I can barely deal with 4
@TonyTheLion You might need some training there.
@Xeo I develop plugins, so I have start the host. It runs slow enough by itself (it's a debug build with zillions of checks and tracing and whatever enabled) that I don't want to attach the debugger until I really need it. So I always start the host without the debugger.
Xeo
Xeo
mhm
Well, yeah, then you're screwed I think.
I remember being prompted with a list of installed debuggers to pick in other situations (like games crashing or something).
Xeo
Xeo
15:37
Just attach it when the assertion comes and retry after that?
I was expecting that to happen here.
@Xeo Yeah, that works.
Now, anyone knows what _unlock(int) in msvcr100d.dll is?
This call stack makes no sense.
Xeo
Xeo
I think so... heap debug lock
Or rather, the int argument is which lock
I have, from top of stack (i.e. last called) to bottom: fwrite (yes, the one from the C library), frames without symbols, and _unlock.
Xeo
Xeo
I just saw it as _unlock(LCK_DEBUG_HEAP) or something.
_unlock does nothing but call LeaveCriticalSection. How the heck could that call fwrite?
Xeo
Xeo
15:39
Concurrent?
Nvm
No idea, sorry.
user784668
@Xeo 2013. Debuggers can handle that.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes File table of locked critical sections or something?
@Xeo Well, it passes null as the file to fwrite (that's the assertion that fails), so... yeah...
Xeo
Xeo
Uh...
Maybe your system is fucked up? :D
Some shit is corrupted.
15:41
@R.MartinhoFernandes the bit without symbols might throw it off so the part of the call stack below that can be very unreliable
@jalf Below as in the callers or the callees?
doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the program state, the debugger just can't read the stack correctly
@R.MartinhoFernandes Callers calling into the bit without symbols may be wrong
and their callers etc
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes I guess I need to reboot after that or something?
15:42
Then I'll assume _unlock is not involved.
sounds reasonable :)
Xeo
Xeo
Question: Are you maybe reading the call stack the wrong way? :D
why don't you have symbols, btw?
But the program state is definitely wrong: fwrite(..., NULL) isn't correct anywhere.
I guess any time you're looking at a debugger, it's probably because the program state is wrong somehow :)
15:44
I'm investigating. I need to figure out where the DLL with the missing symbols comes from first.
is it a dll we might have heard of?
Ah, it's from InDesign. Weird. This is a debug build, so I should have those symbols.
Hmm, no, I don't have symbols for this.
awesome...
I think I'll have to crank up the builtin tracing stuff.
First-chance exception at 0x75aec41f in InDesign.exe: Microsoft C++ exception: [rethrow] at memory location 0x00000000..
This is bad, right?
Why are you messing with InDesign?
15:54
@EtiennedeMartel Because it's the host for the plugins.
shouldn't be a first-chance exception and a rethrow, surely?
Does InDesign have a crappy plugin API? Because I know Photoshop does, and I wonder if it's an Adobe-wide thing.
@DeadMG Yeah, there's a first-chance exception before, but not at 0x000...
@EtiennedeMartel It's a COM-like thingy.
Can't really blame them for that, though.
Sounds old.
15:59
It's not like you have a lot of choices to make a plugin API. Either you use C or some approximation to COM.
It's smart pointers all over, anyway.
And from what I have seen in docs, they do remove deprecated stuff.
But there's some stuff with lousy docs in places (like that glyph thingy). Well, was. The prerelease for CS7 seems to have improved docs.
Xeo
Xeo
Holy crap, generating all kinds of graphs makes doxygen slow.
hmmm
what software should I use to make a really simple chart?
I don't even know what is trying to fwrite because there's no stream :(
@DeadMG MATLAB
@DeadMG Chart Maker 3000.
16:08
@R.MartinhoFernandes Only seems to exist for Android
Wait, what.
I made that up.
Sorry.
lol
Xeo
Xeo
lawl
it's more of a table anyway
@DeadMG Do they have the 3000 in the name?
@DeadMG Excel?
16:09
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yep.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Tried that, it didn't really work out.
it's not really a chart, more like a table.
Xeo
Xeo
How you know your class design sucks horrendeously: You generate documentation for it and the resulting html page takes more than 10 seconds to load from the local drive because of the huge amount of huge graphs.
Time to try a full rebuild.
This?
@DeadMG I was about to say Vizio, but it's really for diagrams, not tables.
16:11
ah, whatever
I'll just make a crappy HTML table.
maybe Bootstrap has some nice styles for it.
Woot, it doesn't crash...
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not as bad. But in the general direction, yes.
WTF, Rebuild fixed it.
Or so it seems.
@R.MartinhoFernandes UB!
hmmm
T current(T t) {
    std::swap(t, *current);
    return t;
}
Xeo
Xeo
16:13
what
That looks like it shouldn't compile.
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, but it only manifests when closing InDesign without my code anywhere in sight :(
why wouldn't it compile?
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG current function name and current variable (?)
@Xeo Balls.
puppy fail
also, what about your job hunt? Given up?
16:15
Arrrrgh, bastard doesn't crash :(
Let's chalk it up as a bug in InDesign.
whistles
I'm in
mmmmm Jaffa Cakes
the goodness
it's made my day so far
16:16
I'm cold.
Close the window.
@thecoshman I saw that this morning
it's not open, for once
probably the ice cold Coke I'm drinking
Don't be ridiculous.
16:17
+1 Try using boost::spirit with -O2 -g. 250LoC --> 20M, no joke. The symbols are so long, it crashes valgrind. Template debug symbols don't mess around. — academicRobot May 21 '10 at 5:00
Meh, can't repro anymore.
Time to leave.
Time to leave grand hotel
@thecoshman This is why you should always keep a flamethrower near your PC.
Sep 13 '12 at 0:06, by sehe
@MooingDuck Time To Leave Grand Hotel
Sep 13 '12 at 0:08, by sehe
Hey. I thought that was common idiom/meme. Turns out it is probably localized to 'Allemaal Projectie' (book by Gerrit-Jan Zwier). Who knew?!
Xeo
Xeo
Btw Robot, why not tell Scott the "pass shared_ptr as ref" advise sucks?
If you have comments regarding any of the potential guidelines above, or if you have suggestions about what's not above but you believe should be, feel free to let me know, either as comments on the blog or via email: smeyers@aristeia.com.
16:19
@Xeo Because he knows?
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe > Prefer pass-by-ref-to-const to pass-by-value for std::shared_ptrs.
He doesn't.
Yep, pass whatever the ptr owns by reference, not the ptr itself.
Here: discussion piece :_)
"... and Ruby fail to attract Java and C++ programmers because they force you to get stuff done" http://bit.ly/VroTlw via @SteveYegge
5 hours ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
I'm thinking of emailing Scott Meyers later about passing shared_ptrs Herb-style.
Robot is ahead of the game already
16:21
@R.MartinhoFernandes What's Herb-style?
Later. After I finish the SFINAE thing. Which will be after class or tomorrow.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Herb-style. Hmm. Credit's due I guess
@AndreiTita with 'erbs innit.
@AndreiTita Modern (Dave Abrahams style, IYAM)
@AndreiTita It's in the transcript around that message. I really need to go now.
16:21
@TonyTheLion "Meestal met 13 kruiden"
@sehe lol
kthxbye
@R.MartinhoFernandes Viel Spass!
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, I missed that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hf
16:27
ohai
I m new to this chat room thing...by the way wat do ppl do here??
@sehe Do you have a link on hand? I still couldn't figure out what it means.
Sup folks
@KarthikMurugan chat
@KarthikMurugan We basically just dick around and sometimes yell at people about programming.
3
procrastinate
Also, the answer by the Robot
ha ha..quite fun huh??!
@sehe I've read that. Meh, nevermind. I guess brain's not working atm.
45
A: Passing shared pointers as arguments

R. Martinho Fernandes I want to pass a shared pointer to a function. Tell me how to do that. I can only think of two reasons to take a shared_ptr argument: The function wants to share ownership of the object; The function does some operation that works specifically on shared_ptrs. Which one are you interested...

Template procrasturbation
@sehe About the only thing I see worth discussing is why there isn't a shorter word than "moron" or "idiot" with roughly the same meaning. Given the frequency of use, it should be expressible in only one letter -- preferably only one bit.
4
@JerryCoffin :) In fact, compression yields good results. I use simple RLE, causing massive bandwidth reduction on SO
Xeo
Xeo
Alright, time to head home, yay.
head ya homey
Xeo
Xeo
16:34
lol
sorry. sometimes I can't even tell what I'm associating there. Still, the urge to post.
Must. Post. Rubbish.
@JerryCoffin knob.
Xeo
Xeo
@sehe I was like "horney? honey? WAT.... oh, homey".
@JerryCoffin TBH I haven't followed that link. I intend to, later
@Xeo You need better font or keming
@sehe unbearable
Xeo
Xeo
16:36
@sehe I was looking from a distance
And I have quite bad eyes.
@TonyTheLion I liked it. That's enough
@Xeo You know what they say about procrasturbating...
Xeo
Xeo
heh
@FredOverflow I'd just delegate the job to cobfusc(1)
16:42
@sehe Seems to be the book-length version of: "I've been programming a long time, so anybody who disagrees with me on anything or does anything different from me must be clueless." Given the level of reason and logic he uses, the only good I can see coming from it is being warned away from anything he wrote (or helped write).
Basically, the standard diatribe from somebody trying to justify dynamic typing on the basis that it let him produce more bug-ridden crap faster.
@JerryCoffin As opposed to the standard diatribe from someone trying to dismiss dynamic typing on the basis that they think it produces more bugs?
Well yeah, they are opposed.
Xeo
Xeo
@ScottW Right. like there's nothing in between or orthogonal to that. Bullshittery.
@ScottW Holy tunnel vision, Batman.
@AndreiTita I'm not sure anybody's said that dynamic typing produces more bugs. People who see a huge advantage in speed, however, are ones who are generally abusing types so badly that bugs are nearly inevitable. You certainly can use types sensibly even in a dynamically typed language -- but when you do, the difference from static typing tends to be quite minimal.
user1182183
@EtiennedeMartel that's we all know for as long as we live :P
@GamErix Well, I did enough internships to have at least junior-level experience. So I don't have that kind of problem.
But I know many people, especially outside programming or engineering related jobs, have it.
user1182183
@EtiennedeMartel at least, if I get to the study I want, I won't have that problem + I will get paid to study instead of paying to study
@JerryCoffin Dynamic languages tend to require less boilerplate, though.
Xeo
Xeo
16:57
@JerryCoffin That's why TypeScript exists.
user1182183
I love those grumpy cat pictures ; D
user1182183
user1182183
Batman deserves a star
@EtiennedeMartel Less boilerplate than what? Less than Ada or C++, sure. Less than Haskell? Not so much.
@JerryCoffin Right.
17:02
Ok now I have to read that crap.
If you get angry when reading Yegge you lose by default.
This is how junior programmers write code.
Ahahahahahahahaha
I wish they fucking did.
Ell
Ell
Sorry, where is this coming from?
@LucDanton What about if you mostly feel pity for somebody who's apparently been doing things a long time, and learned a few things, but apparently only a few of the most obvious bits right on the surface? Thinking back, this looks about like what I would have written a couple weeks after I went through the "we should all just use assembly language" phase -- as I recall about seven weeks into my freshman year of college.
Damn blogspot localization. Should still work tho.
user142019
17:12
l
What an ugly method signature:
void asyncMethod(void* thisptr,void* userData,void(completionHandler)(void,void*))
user142019
@JerryCoffin "git" is the shortest I could come up with.
@Zoidberg Too easily mistaken for DVCS when talking about any software related.
user142019
"ass"
Yes, after this, noobs will be scarred for life:
    CROSSLIBS_PARALLELTASK CROSSLIBS_GetParallelCompletion(void(*handler)(void*,void*,void(*)(void*,void*)),void* userData)
17:18
@Zoidberg Too easily mistaken for somebody who might (for example) know quite a bit, and just has personality problems (e.g., excessive ego). (I know, I'm picky. Sorry 'bout that).
@IDWMaster Pretty stars
2
How on Earth are you even supposed to know what to pass into that function?
@JerryCoffin I don't know?
user142019
@JerryCoffin fool, dip, nit, dill, alec, nong, poon, clot.
user142019
Time shifts are funny.
user142019
17:22
The last message was posted two hours ago.
user142019
Haskell has a nice type system IMO.
17:37
I wonder if modern compilers can detect this type of stupidity and optimize it?
@IDWMaster typedefs!
@MooingDuck gcc does with --froll-loops (no, of course I'm not serious).
3 days until I get a kitten!
4
lol --froll-loops
@IDWMaster Function taking two pointers to void and a pointer to function taking two pointers to void and a pointer to void. That's pretty obvious.
@MooingDuck Optimize it how? If you replace that with a loop, 1000 function calls will still occur.
17:45
@AndreiTita a compiler could code-size optimize it
@AndreiTita sure, but the executable would be significantly smaller. Optimization includes code-size
Ah, that. No idea.
@AndreiTita Also, smaller code size = fewer cache misses = faster code.
Apparently, I have tunnel vision when it comes to optimization :(
Ironically, MSVC forgot this, and when you "optimize for fast code", it's often slower because there's more code, though each individual "unit" is faster in theory. So don't use that setting.
whoa, a question I posted seven days ago has almost 25 votes O.o stackoverflow.com/a/14486705/845092 It's already my second highest-scoring answer!
Do I get a badge if that hits 25?
There is! (heh, I got the badge for my answer on the boobs operator question too! 10k+ rep to see)
17:52
Lend me 9.5k rep so I can see that please.
Ell
Ell
@MooingDuck was it a woman being offended and complaining?
@Ell no, just highly and obviously inappropriate.
user image
3
dawns on me if you have two characters that look similar...
typedef int O;
return   ( O ) ( 0 ); //totally valid

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