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user142019
7:00 PM
Oh Windows crap.
 
COM as a concept isn't bound to Windows
 
@Zoidberg Yeah.
 
See XPCOM
 
in C++ of course. in basic it's cool and simple
basic ftw.
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus oh cool.
 
7:01 PM
Microsoft seems to love taking terms that everyone already uses, and slapping them onto their products. See also: COM, MVC...
 
user142019
MVC?
 
Yes, they took the name of the Model-View-Controller architecture pattern, and sold it as a Web product.
 
user142019
Isn't ASP.NET MVC FOSS?
 
@ShotgunNinja Oh come on -- there are lots better examples than those. Word? Project?
 
user142019
7:02 PM
There are many web frameworks with MVC in their names.
 
@Zoidberg Yes.
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, I hear you.
 
user142019
Also I prefer Nancy; much simpler.
 
Nancy?
 
user142019
It's a web framework.
 
user142019
7:03 PM
Similar to Flask and Sinatra.
 
@Zoidberg Of course you prefer it, it's hipster stuff.
 
user142019
s/hip/lob/
 
It's another one of those "Web frameworks with a fancy name and a minimalistic home page".
@Zoidberg Damn, never noticed that.
The hipster lobster.
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel I noticed it before it was cool.
 
That's pretty obvious.
 
7:05 PM
@EtiennedeMartel same crap.
 
Still better than Apple trying to patent rectangle with rounded corners
 
Ell
@Zoidberg You are so indie
 
user142019
@Ell Do you even use Haskell?
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
Ell
@Zoidberg Bro, you don't even haskell
 
7:06 PM
@Zoidberg You're proving his point.
Also, "do you even lift?"
 
user142019
Do you guys even use Node.js? :P
 
Lift sucks
 
Having a preference for one web framework over another is like having a preference for one type of kiddie porn over another. Should almost certainly be a criminal offense in itself.
 
user142019
Yeah, I totally like CakePHP and CodeIgniter.
 
@JerryCoffin I hate all web frameworks, probably because of this Struts bullshit I'm wading through right now at work.
 
7:06 PM
Okay, pick any Java web framework and try not to vomit
 
@CatPlusPlus I already did, when I took this job. Was better than a dickhead boss who had no idea how to run a software project making me work in (ugh) Flash...
 
user142019
Oh hey hlibgit2 compiles and just a few hours ago libgit2 didn't.
 
user142019
It's magic.
 
user142019
ActionScript > Java
 
@CatPlusPlus Easy. Simply kill yourself beforehand. You can't puke if you're dead!
 
7:08 PM
~magic~
@EtiennedeMartel You sure about that?
 
user142019
 
THERE IS NO ESCAPE
 
@CatPlusPlus There's one on my keyboard.
 
Go home, you're drunk
 
user142019
@EtiennedeMartel You'll vomit in heaven or hell, if you believe that exists.
 
Ell
7:09 PM
@EtiennedeMartel I thought it was "Bro, you don't even lift"?
 
Nope, it's DO U EVN LIFT
 
user142019
Do you even use non-blocking I/O?
 
user142019
lololol there are people using non-blocking I/O on files.
 
@Zoidberg Only with sockets.
 
Ell
@Zoidberg why is that so lololol?
 
user142019
7:10 PM
Non-blocking I/O on regular files is stupid.
 
@Zoidberg This is why I can't put my laptop to sleep. Stupid caching hard drive...
 
@Zoidberg because....?
 
user142019
It's useless. It has no benefits over blocking I/O.
 
Depends on what you're doing
Also filesystem might be networked
 
user142019
I/O on regular files is always blocking. (Yes you can use thread bla bla bla.)
 
7:11 PM
@Zoidberg saves me from having to manage threads in any way
 
non-blocking file I/O: "I'm gonna write to you and forget about it LOL"
my hard drive: "Nooo, my cache is full~ stahp wat r u doin"
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus read and write on regular files are blocking no matter what.
 
@Zoidberg Doesn't matter, it can be abstracted away
 
user142019
And that function that return whether read and write are available always return true on regular files.
 
7:12 PM
@Zoidberg As far as you know, or they're hard-coded?
 
If you want a real-world example of async I/O on regular files
 
LOL damnit
It's std::default_delete, not deleter
 
Loading screens in games
 
I'm so bad at this.
 
^ More facebook pic
 
user142019
7:13 PM
@CatPlusPlus async != non-blocking
 
Async and non-blocking are synonyms
Blocking calls are also called synchronous
 
user142019
Oh wait.
 
I want file handles to block, dammit; my hard drive doesn't like it when I try to sleep my computer, and someone jounces the hard drive, locking it up and forcing everything to write to the cache memory.
 
user142019
You're right. :P
 
user142019
With non-blocking I mean using epoll and the like.
 
7:14 PM
I know
 
Ell
@Zoidberg I think you meant async != multi-threaded
 
user142019
Using epoll or Kqueue on regular files is pointless.
 
Ell
Why? o.O
 
user142019
Because reading and writing regular files is never non-blocking. They will block till data is available or buffer is free, respectively.
 
Ell
Wait a sec
But what if you want to do something while it's loading?
 
user142019
7:16 PM
Use a thread.
 
@Zoidberg Pipes
 
@Zoidberg He's left.
 
user142019
With sockets, you can use system calls that tell you when it's possible to read or write the file.
 
@Zoidberg extra overhead (but is usually simpler to implement).
 
Ell
@Zoidberg Or just use non-blocking?
 
7:17 PM
@CatPlusPlus Fork that, lol
 
@EtiennedeMartel You can write games in pretty much any language.
 
Ell
I don't see the advantage of threads over threaded async
 
user142019
@Ell non-blocking I/O, as in epoll or Kqueue (not as in threads), that will still block.
 
Ell
@Zoidberg I need to look up epoll :o and kqueue
 
user142019
read and write will always block on regular files.
 
7:17 PM
Also if you look at the bigger picture
 
user142019
No matter what.
 
Regular files are the exceptional case
 
@FredOverflow C++ is the most commonly used for modern AAA titles.
 
user142019
(I'm talking about the read and write system calls.)
 
@FredOverflow Real programmers can write Fortran in any language! (Hmmm...MMORPG in Fortran. Now there's a challenge fit for a real man...)
 
7:18 PM
For a variety of reasons.
 
Ell
@Zoidberg So that's not non-blocking then is it?
 
user142019
I can write Fortran in C++.
 
Obviously you wouldn't use epoll just for regular files
 
user142019
With a lot of macros.
 
user142019
@Ell no.
 
7:19 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about AAA games.
 
OOH SHIT
 
Or maybe there's some use case I don't know about, I don't know
 
My sexy hack segfaulted
 
user142019
But epoll and Kqueue are often used for implementing non-blocking I/O, since they're generally better than select.
 
By the way, is the big money in AAA or in casual Flash games?
 
7:19 PM
guys.
 
Ell
Do they block or not?
 
user142019
select on regular files is brain-dead.
 
@FredOverflow herp derp money in games
 
@FredOverflow mobile, or so I'm told
 
@FredOverflow And even indies. Sure, you can write a game with C# using Unity, but Unity itself uses C++.
 
user142019
7:20 PM
@Ell epoll and Kqueue (and select) basically tell you when you're able to read or write from or to a file descriptor. For example, when data on a socket is available.
 
So I'd argue C++ is the best language for game engines.
 
user142019
But regular files are always available. Even when they're on a slow HDD from the eighties or a network drive.
 
Trying to see where the money is in gaming is about as possible as observing the position and momentum of a photon at the same time.
 
Ell
Ohhhhh I understand it now
 
I don't know what you're arguing for really
 
7:20 PM
@FredOverflow More in AAA, I think. Mobile games apparently make a lot of money for the Apple store (and such) but next to nothing for most people who actually write them.
 
The act of observing it causes it to change, lol
 
user1182183
@CatPlusPlus 's negativity levels even affect my phone! I was playing typing master and had to type the words "hope" "cat" "drowns" in this order...
 
Today I read about Rust on reddit. Anyone programmed in that yet?
 
@GamErix What
 
Welp.
 
7:21 PM
@FredOverflow No, wasn't interesting
 
I fixed up my sexy hack.
 
user142019
@FredOverflow Oh it's that new hipster language. I should try it.
 
Kitchen-sink languages usually aren't all that great
 
user142019
@ThePhD not enough pointers.
 
7:22 PM
@ThePhD And all this achieves what?
 
@CatPlusPlus What is a kitchen-sink language? Throw as many features in it as possible?
 
@Zoidberg Clearly, not enough pointers.
 
@FredOverflow > It is designed to be a "safe, concurrent, practical language",[4][5] supporting pure-functional, concurrent-actor, imperative-procedural, and object-oriented styles.
Nuff said
 
user142019
@ThePhD not enough new.
 
@CatPlusPlus It means I can use Com and operator& on a unique_ptr, with reset always being called properly if the COM function finishes without failing.
 
user142019
7:23 PM
@CatPlusPlus oeh actors me gusta.
 
Don't overload operator&
 
@ThePhD use a different method if you absolutely must havea it
 
@FredOverflow Also, ugly syntax
 
hi guys
 
user142019
HELLO RUBEn
 
7:24 PM
I got a Boost question
Boost.program_options to be specific. How can you make it handle Unicode?
 
user142019
See the tags of the room.
 
@CatPlusPlus The lambda syntax is from Ruby, isn't it?
 
@Zoidberg fail capS
 
user142019
@FredOverflow yup.
 
Yeah looks like
 
user142019
7:25 PM
@sehe ON PuRpose
 
@rubenvb You curse and threaten to kill it's offspring
 
@rubenvb Well, first you stop using C++
 
@MooingDuck It's really just Syntactic Sex. I am getting along fine without it, but... it's sex, why pass it up? (Suddenly, STDs).
2
 
@Zoidberg obviously
 
Then you don't deal with Boost.ProgramOptions
 
7:26 PM
@rubenvb it already does.
 
Ell
@FredOverflow ruby blocks are awesome :D
 
And probably have something that handles Unicode
 
@ThePhD cominitializegogo :)
 
No, really, C++ is terrible at Unicode
And Boost isn't that much better
 
@rubenvb iirc, there was a FAQ entry on unicode
 
user142019
7:26 PM
Ogonek ftw.
 
@Zoidberg not for VC++
 
But, sadly, ProgramOptions wouldn't really work with that, I guess?
@Abyx Yet
 
Also fetching Unicode from surrounding environment is ugh
 
@Abyx nope, not here.
 
Why do you need Unicode in arguments
 
7:27 PM
I've got a working Unicode implementation for my Strings.
 
I'm writing a simple echo and it ain't working
 
@ThePhD No you don't
 
user142019
@Abyx Oh MSVC. I don't care about MSVC.
 
@CatPlusPlus I totes do. :D
 
I'm actually trying to get most/all of the POSIX utils written in Boost.
 
7:28 PM
Why
 
user142019
@ThePhD it probably overloads operator& and uses pointers everywhere.
 
user142019
Use Ogonek.
 
@ThePhD using?
 
I can'tuse Ogonek and MSVC
 
So I started with echo and next up is date
@CatPlusPlus because I can.
 
user142019
7:29 PM
Then don't use MSVC.
 
user142019
Problem solved.
 
@ThePhD also wtf with SexyHacksReference?
 
@Zoidberg DirectX with MinGW isn't too fantastic.
 
@ThePhD There's like 3/4 chance that it sucks
 
user142019
Then don't use DirectX.
 
user142019
7:29 PM
Problem solved.
 
Can't, Microsoft competition.
If it's not DirectX somebody will throw a fit.
 
user142019
Use OpenGL.
2
 
@rubenvb here is a snippet - pastebin.com/UR3R5hm6
 
Use GDI
 
@rubenvb not simple enough. why would it have to care for unicode?
 
user142019
7:30 PM
Use SVG and WebKit.
 
@CatPlusPlus vomit
 
@CatPlusPlus For a 2D game, this is actually a great idea.
 
@Zoidberg lol
 
Ell
@ThePhD use opengl?
 
user142019
/o/
 
7:30 PM
@Abyx you're cheating. main takes char*[] as second arg. Is there really no other way?
 
user142019
@rubenvb or the const variants. :P
 
Gdi's Blitting can get you up to 1100 frames.
 
@rubenvb I use wmain.
 
@rubenvb aw. I'd see a market for C++, just not really for boost. I mean, what does boost offer there? (Beside, sarcastically, the lack of unicode support?)
 
@ThePhD Platform lock-in. I'd go with Cairo first
 
7:31 PM
@MooingDuck I said I was making a sexy hack. So I named it appropriately. :D
 
@sehe Boost offers everything regex, filesystem, etc.
 
Ell
@CatPlusPlus Is cairo hardware accelerated?
 
@Ell it can be I think.
 
There's OpenGL backend AFAIR
 
What does 'Hardware Accelerated' mean, anyways?
That you can finagle with it with the 3D API of your choice?
 
7:32 PM
@sehe because if I type echo éèçà I want to see éèçà as output.
 
user142019
Use Python, Emscipten and Three.js.
 
Ell
@ThePhD it can use your gpu
 
That things that can run on GPU run on GPU
 
Ah.
 
the built-in cmd command can do it.
 
7:33 PM
@rubenvb hardly useful for date and echo
 
Ell
or your physics-card or whatever doohickeys they have now
 
Physics cards don't exist
 
5 mins ago, by rubenvb
I'm actually trying to get most/all of the POSIX utils written in Boost.
 
@rubenvb so, you need exactly no unicode support for that. You just need to not touch the input
 
There was PhysX and it was bought by NVIDIA and rolled into GPUs
 
7:33 PM
@rubenvb Use Ogonek, it should compile fine for your POSIC environment.
@CatPlusPlus was? Don't you mean 'is' ? It's still used, AFAIK.
 
I mean a separate extension card
 
Ooh.
Yeah they got swallowed up.
 
user142019
lol buy glasses noob
 
Glasses are for scrubs. Blind is the new in right now.
 
@rubenvb well. I'd still reckon that good old ftw, nftw and glob are actually well equipped. Not in the last place because these facilities are designed to support the exact same UNIX userland toolset
 
7:35 PM
@ThePhD note, I'm writing this for Windows.
 
@rubenvb But compiling using MinGW? :D
If so, you should be safe.
 
@sehe well those aren't in POSIX are they?
 
If not, you'll need to roll your own Unicode solution.
 
@rubenvb Yes they are
 
> Erik Meijer: I often say "log n is never greater than 64, so it's constant!"
 
7:36 PM
Because Ogonek isn't going to be supported by MSVC until after you get rid of all the C++11 curly-braced constexpr unprotected fucking Ogonek has with your compiler.
 
@sehe see here click on Shell & Utilities in the top right, click on Utilities in the bottom left. No ftw, no nftw, no glob.
 
@rubenvb use VC++ then.
 
@ThePhD oh, I see the issue, the deleter.
 
@MooingDuck There's an issue? o_O
 
@Abyx eh, no. I want them in Standard C++11 + Boost
djeeze.
 
7:37 PM
@ThePhD I see the reason you needed a reference struct
 
user142019
> Since empty commits cannot exist in Git, attempting to write out an empty commit is a no-op.
 
user142019
gitlib y u no error.
 
@sehe: the things you mention are POSIX C functions. I don't want to write a libPOSIX. Those things exist already.
 
@rubenvb Wut?! I was, obviously, listing POSIX library calls you can use.
 
@rubenvb you want non-standard unicode support and standard C++? that's too much
 
7:38 PM
@Abyx I want standard Unicode support from Boost. Duh.
 
user142019
@sehe glob exists?
 
user142019
AWESOME.
 
@rubenvb The point is, using nftw/glob and friends is going to prove a hell of a lot easier and possibly more performant than using boost filesystem
 
It has ICU.
 
either wmain, or C++11.
 
7:38 PM
@Zoidberg man -S3 glob
 
@sehe I doubt these exist on Windows.
djeeze
 
user142019
@sehe what does -S do? Wait, man man. :P
 
damn you vs2012 and not implementing variadic templates
 
@rubenvb I don't. I have used them. Anyways, like you said, libPOSIX exists, right?
 
@Collin get the November CTP update.
 
7:39 PM
@Zoidberg manception
 
@Zoidberg haha. Section 3
 
@sehe that's not what I want to do...
 
@rubenvb I am now, I was hoping there was an update to that too
 
@rubenvb Okay. Fair enough
 
user142019
@sehe oh I just do man 3 glob.
 
7:40 PM
@Zoidberg TIL. That's one annoyance gone. Thank you
 
user142019
@sehe TIT
 
@Zoidberg lol
 
@MooingDuck Ah, yeah. It's just I can't do FuckingCOM ( &myuniqueptr.get() ), because unique_ptr's get() is a function and thus returns a pointer that can't be considered an l-value that can have its address taken. So you have to wrap it up in a temporary that will survive until after the function call is done.
 
user142019
Today I Teached
 
@Zoidberg I got it.
 
user142019
7:41 PM
Today I had to use a lot of man pages since the fucking train had no Internet connection i.e. it was from the 40's or something.
 
@Zoidberg Huh. Usually, the interweb just serves up the same man pages, just with more latency. And more irrelevant versions
 
@Zoidberg taught
 
yay templated/synchronized printing class
 
@Zoidberg You get internet on your trains?
 
ouch. a printing class
 
user142019
7:42 PM
@sehe no, usually the Internet serves up control+C-able sample code.
 
user142019
:P
 
@Collin Will synchronized printing be an Olympic discipline soon?
 
@ThePhD You get trains on your internet?
@sehe probably
 
@Zoidberg You wouldn't be able to use that since you're into Erlang and stuff
 
user142019
FUUUUUCK
 
7:43 PM
synchronized 3D printing
 
user142019
gitlib y u no branch
 
user142019
@sehe I was using C and Bash.
 
@Zoidberg because you must just create a new reference, and set it to the same commitish
branches are porcelain, in a way.
 
user142019
@sehe is that it?
 
user142019
I just want to create a branch with an orphan commit, and I don't want to check it out.
 
7:44 PM
I think I might
seriously consider using my class.
It's just so.... easy.
 
@Zoidberg git update-ref, or git branch name <commitish>
 
..... Fuck it, I'm gonna do it. SexyUniquePtr, here I come.
 
user142019
I don't want to invoke git. :P
 
user142019
But yeah, create a reference and then set it to a commit?
 
user142019
The name of the ref is then the branch name, right?
 
7:45 PM
@Zoidberg I think you can even echo "$sha1" > .git/refs/heads/mynewbranch
 
@Zoidberg Indeed. Bear in mind git refs have 'namespaces' and by convention local branches go in refs/heads
 
user142019
@sehe I'm using a library :P but it supports manipulation of references so that's good.
 
@Zoidberg It's always best to first understand the model. Then you can see how the library supports that
 
user142019
So,
 
7:49 PM
 
@Zoidberg I'd expect gitlib to only provide services that allow creating, querying and updating a git object database, in the crudest sense (trees, blobs and commits, basically) while keeping all invariants (like, honouring reflog expirations, garbage collect settings, case sensitivity, checking integrity etc. etc.)
 
@EtiennedeMartel Les journalistes adorent ce village. Il y a des années on avait eu droit à "je vais vous montrer Moncuq à la télé" (dit oralement).
Also, can UML describe itself?
2
 
UML can't describe zilch. Except, maybe an artist impression of hell
@Griwes thanks for resolving those important questions
 
fuck this. Boost.ProgramOptions sucks
 
@sehe You're welcome.
 
7:51 PM
not even wmain solved it
 
Even after months of being here I still don't quite understand why people star stuff
 
I didn't know function prototypes solved things
 
@NolwennLeGuen Because you're a girl, so you get free stars.
 
why does the cmd builtin work and any code I write ... not so much?
 
@NolwennLeGuen me neither, this particular instance :)
@rubenvb because... differences (sorry, I guess(
 
7:52 PM
Does GCC have inheriting constructors? I seem able to inherit all other functions
 
@MooingDuck GCC 4.8 has inheritable constructors according to gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.8/cxx0x_status.html
 
@MooingDuck Since 4.8
 
@rubenvb I have no idea what version stacked-crooked's compiler is :/
 
user142019
@sehe It supports blobs, commits, objects, references, tags and trees but not branches.
 
user142019
A reference cannot exist without a target, right?
 
7:56 PM
@MooingDuck check the __GNUC_MINOR__ predefined macro
 
4.7.2
 
@Zoidberg Oh wait, I thought you were talking about C++ references :)
 
use Clang 3.2 liveworkspace.org
 
user142019
@FredOverflow I mean in Git. :P
 
user142019
You can have a targetless reference in C++.
 
user142019
7:58 PM
T& foo() {
    T x;
    return x;
}
 
Dammit. The first Boost library (real library, not just Boost.Assign or something) I try to use fails miserably at its task.
 
@Zoidberg That is UB.
 
user142019
It is?
 
user142019
I thought only dereferencing it was UB.
 
7:58 PM
@Zoidberg duh?
 
reference to local
 
user142019
TIL.
 
Yes. And compilers will warn you.
 
EVEN I KNOW THAT
 
it's a reference. You don't dereference a reference
 
7:59 PM
@Zoidberg Oh, maybe you're right. Maybe it's fine if you don't access the return value.
 
@Zoidberg It can, but that would make the repo inconsistent. Oh wait, recent gits support shallow clones, so that's probably a supported feature right now
 
you'd get a unreference, or metareference
 
user142019
@sehe ah, that's why gitlib doesn't support it directly. :P
 

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