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6:11 PM
@sbi Good point.
@sbi Okay -- that does sound like the sort of problem testing can probably find reasonably well. OTOH, if you can estimate a likely rejection rate, you might be able to compensate for it up-front (though, of course, I still don't know enough about the system to be at all sure that's reasonable, or that you may not already be doing it...
 
6:28 PM
Since it is mentioned in the starred messages... I have noticed that the quality of the questions and the behavior of There's nothing... has actually improved quite a lot.
 
sbi
6:40 PM
@JerryCoffin Actually, that's among those errors testing is unlikely to find, because no developer will setup a test workflow that loops thousands of test documents thousands of times. :) And then there's the fact that memory usage depends largely on the characteristics of input data...
It's one of those things that you only find out when you have an agitated customer on the phone which you picked up against better judgment on Friday night, when you're the last one about to leave work. And they'll always lose their business when you can't hsolve their problem until Monday morning.
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Yes, but he still is a real nuisance to argue with nonetheless.
 
@sbi ... to stop me
@sbi You still forgot..... to stop me
There's nothing he can do to stop me.
Haven't you read any Golden Age comics?
 
sbi
@Xaade Whatever comic you ask about, I'm very likely to not to have read it.
 
I know it's a C++ room, but... Are there any people competent in Haskell here? I've got a quick question and there seems to be no chat room for Haskellers
 
sbi
@GrigoryJavadyan I think @FredN and @Johannes do Haskell.
 
6:57 PM
@sbi What about me? ;-)
@GrigoryJavadyan What is the question?
 
um, seems like I already found the answer... The question was "What's wrong with this declaration: serializeSequence a :: [a] -> (a->String) -> String". But after removing a after serializeSequence it worked. I thought I needed a type variable after the function name, analogous to polymorphic types.
 
@sbi : It's just that you stopped halfway. You didn't even do the maniacal laugh.
 
But turns out I don't
 
Mwa ha ha ha ha haaaaa.....
 
@sbi To find it you do have to generate a test to cover the possibility. My point was that if you say (for example) that module X will be able to handle N documents of size Z queued up at any given time, it's fairly straightforward to generate a test that assures exactly that.
 
7:01 PM
Which is weird
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin I dunno. Address space fragmentation is quite unpredictable.
@Xaade Oh, I see. (And did you understand that my message was a stab at a certain SO user?)
 
@sbi : Seriously.... am I that bad.... I didn't know you thought that way about me!!?!?!?!??!
 
@GrigoryJavadyan Well, Haskell simply knows that a is a type variable here, no need to declare it manually.
 
@sbi Well, yes. That can be harder to predict. Even so, the rate of fragmentation tends to be fairly predictable, so you can guess fairly reliably at when you need to do something about it.
 
You only have to do it if you want to constrain what a can be:
serializeSequence :: Num a => [a] -> (a -> String) -> String
This will constrain a on numeric types, for example.
 
sbi
7:04 PM
@Xaade It wasn't about you. It was about a user with a name pretty similar to that cursive part of my message, which most of us here avoid answering to, because he's so rude.
 
There's someone named: There's nothing...
???
 
@Xaade Yes.
 
@FredOverflow if the compiler is so smart, why do we have to declare them when defining polymorphic types?
 
Post an example, please.
 
@Xaade No, it wasn't about you. Change "he" to "we" and do a quick search to see how rude somebody can be.
 
@FredOverflow : ZOMG..... is he nihilist?
 
@FredOverflow data Point a = Pt a a
 
Ack..... he looks scary!!!
 
Because otherwise there would be no way to tell how many type parameters (not sure if this is the correct terminology here) Point takes, I guess... not sure.
 
@GrigoryJavadyan What language???
 
7:08 PM
Haskell () is a standardized, general-purpose purely functional programming language, with non-strict semantics and strong static typing. It is named after logician Haskell Curry. In Haskell, "a function is a first-class citizen" of the programming language. As a functional programming language, the primary control construct is the function. The language is rooted in the observations of Haskell Curry and his intellectual descendants, that "a proof is a program; the formula it proves is a type for the program".{{Citation|last=De Bruijn|first=Nicolaas|year=1968|title=Automath,
 
changed room topic to: Lounge<C++>: Where we talk about every other language than C++
 
It still says "Home of the pedants" here ;)
 
sbi
@Xaade No, he's an idiot.
2
Apr 3 at 11:08, by Xeo
I'm somehow reluctant to answer 'There is nothing we can do's questions... am I the only one?
yesterday, by Ronald Landheer-Cieslak
@dhanke I think he's referring to There is nothing we can do
Apr 13 at 8:00, by Tony
@DavidRodríguezdribeas yep now I agree "there is nothing we can do" is annoying
And there's many more references to him here.
 
:) I still think that at least he is improving. I now have another user that is somehow bothering me with his behavior, but I will let others guess :)
 
@DavidRodríguezdribeas : Dammit, everyone hates me....
 
7:12 PM
@DavidRodríguezdribeas Is it you? ;)
 
sbi
@DavidRodríguezdribeas But he has improved very much, although he had a relapse the other day.
 
I just heard the term "containee" for the first time, and I like it!
 
@sbi Is he trying to troll or something?
 
@sbi : Do you have a particular question he's been a jerk on, as an example. I'm curious to see what he could possibly be doing so annoying. (For now, I'm going to assume he's asking a question, but refuting answers as if he knows more about the topic than everyone he's asking a question to)
 
sbi
And he's someone you can reason with much more than you can with TNWCD.
@Xaade This should give you a starting point: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/10?m=658892#658892
 
7:15 PM
@sbi : That just gives me everyone complaining about him. Still don't have a clue. Unless you meant: stackoverflow.com/questions/5849802/…
oops, 404
 
@Xaade Your link leads to a nonexistent page
 
@GrigoryJavadyan You don't have enough rep to see the question, it was deleted.
 
@GrigoryJavadyan : That's my point.
 
@GrigoryJavadyan It exists, but the question was deleted, so you need fairly high rep to se it.
 
sbi
@Xaade Don't be such a newbie. When I looked at that user's profile, he had just given this answer: stackoverflow.com/questions/5849059/….
Or you look at TINWCD's profile's activity page.
 
7:20 PM
@Xaade there has been different patterns of behavior, some questions with almost no information where he downvoted every answer because they did not solve the unstated problem --and rejected to update with extra information--, in some cases intentional (i.e. faking the question and hiding the important bits, and adding comments in the lines of "you are not smart enough to find the solution"). The worse is that in some cases he has been known to insult others
 
boy, those GHC error messages can be cryptic... but still better than what g++ produces when trying to use some boost libs incorrectly :D
 
Oh cool, there is a Perl 6 compiler written in Haskell, didn't know that :)
> The design process for Perl 6 began in 2000.
 
sbi
@GrigoryJavadyan You're complaining about cryptic error messages in a C++ chat room?!
 
Wow, some language is challenging C++ in terms of "design speed" :)
 
@sbi Yeah, but I mentioned that g++ can be even worse :-)
 
7:23 PM
> the primary goals [for Perl 6] were to remove "historical warts" from the language; "easy things should stay easy, hard things should get easier, and impossible things should get hard;"
LOL
 
@FredOverflow and we're complaining about c++0x being late
 
sbi
@FredOverflow "We set out to remove the warts from the warthog."
 
@FredOverflow The ISO process (sort of intentionally) slows down innovation in any standardized language, but Perl doesn't even have that excuse.
 
Is C++0x definitely going to be C++2011 now?
 
@sbi Even that would be reasonable by comparison. This is more like "we set out to remove the water from the oceans."
 
7:27 PM
@sbi : Sorry. I was misunderstood. I have been searching through his user page, but got bored of trying to find the worst instance of his jerkness. I meant to ask if anyone had an example offhand. I suppose it appeared lazy of me, but I really got tired of looking through a bunch of links for a solid comment chain that gave a good example....
@DavidRodríguezdribeas : Now that is purely arrogant.
 
@FredOverflow I hope so... And even when the new standard is published we'll have to wait until all the major compilers catch up with it, and then we'll have to battle with our employers to switch to the new compilers. Which means C++0x will become a de-facto standard in 5 years, no less :-(
 
@FredOverflow A delay is always possible, but seems pretty unlikely at this point (and is even less likely to mean anything if there is one). Just for example, the original C standard got delayed a few months because the committee somehow missed sending an official reply to an official objection, and they're required to reply to all official objections. That cost something like 5 months, but not a single word of the standard changed.
 
sbi
On the merits of never ignoring capitalization: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/89734/mysterious-butt
It's the difference between i.imgur.com/jVCUe.png and i.imgur.com/jvcue.png.
 
@sbi : Are you sure....??? It rather looks like a puma to me.
 
Screw it, I'm just going to publish my own new C++ standard. With black jack and hookers!
6
 
7:30 PM
In fact, forget the standard!
 
@FredOverflow If only I were still single!
 
hello yall
 
@JerryCoffin So what are you, double? ;)
 
I should add that even when final approval gets delayed, the number (at least often) remains. Just for example, the FDIS of Fortran 2008 was approved in September 2010, but it's still Fortran 2008. nag.co.uk/sc22wg5
 
7:34 PM
@FredOverflow : word!
 
@FredOverflow long double. :-) (Am I the only one who still remembers the "Kentucky Fried Movie"?)
 
sbi
@Xaade Perl? No, it's definitely a warthog.
 
@sbi : From here.... it looks like a big cat.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin long john; // silver
 
A Puma?
Yeah... that....
 
7:35 PM
LOL
 
You see these tusks.... what animal has tusks....
A chupathingy!!!
 
I've forgotten the standard :)
 
@TonyTheTiger : Use Monty Python..... he has no standards :)
 
@Xaade lulz
 
The funniest comment I've ever seen. The code parses market data from a stock exchange:
       // The following precisions are not fully supported by postlib.
      // We have the choice of sending a float with reduced precision
      // or an int with reduced precision and a smaller scale.
      // Not that we think this will ever be an issue, but who knows what
      // they may be doing years in the future.  Perhaps deflation will
      // occur and one ten-millionth of a cent will be worth something.
      // But if that occurs, I have a nice jar of pennies buried out back
      // and I'll be retiring at that point.  So good luck to whomever
 
7:41 PM
@GrigoryJavadyan : At least it doesn't repeat the code. // At least it doesn't repeat the code.
 
Oh, and speak of the devil:
0
Q: Another problem with dectype

There is nothing we can do//THIS IS JUST A FRAGMENT OF A static_numeric_limits.h for the purpose of this example #include <limits.h> template<class T> struct static_numeric_limits; template<> struct static_numeric_limits<signed char> {/*min was outside of range for enum*/ ...

Read the whole question, and just think: if I knew the answer, for sure, without even thinking hard, would I post it?
 
HAHAHA. I got an upvote for this answer.
1
A: Why are Constructors Evil?

XaadeConstructors allow initialization lists and other useful things. There's no way to initialize an object in an array (that doesn't use pointers to objects) without a copy constructor. No they aren't evil. They are special cases.

 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Edited. <beg/>
 
@Xaade We're upping our standards. Now, Up yours!
 
@JerryCoffin : My fist will Interface.... and leave you a black eye.
 
7:50 PM
@sbi I would never participate in such a nefarious scheme, but I did happen to notice that his indentation needed a little work! :-)
 
@JerryCoffin his english is horrid
 
@Xaade My, now that doesn't sound very nice.
@TonyTheTiger Yes, it may take many edits to get it right! :)
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Two down, ten to go... :)
 
@sbi I believe it's Tony's turn to work on the grammar a bit...
 
@sbi oh shall I help you? :P
 
sbi
7:52 PM
@JerryCoffin Well, I just saw that my first edit had messed up one of his line breaks. I corrected that.
 
@sbi Only 10 more edits.
Keep going... make them look legit.
He'll be stuck with -1
 
@sbi so it was you editing while I was editing
@Xaade I added one to that...
 
blink. I only added a comment.
9
 
@sbi It is good to see so many people willing to put in so much work to help improve questions, now isn't it? Really warms my heart -- or would if I had one! :-)
3
 
oops voted to close
 
sbi
7:55 PM
@Xaade But that comment was right on spot. (I hadn't even read his text, so I missed this.) Voted to close.
 
@GMan is gonna have a try it seems
oh no :(
 
sbi
Hey @GMan, don't spoil all the fun!
 
@sbi Wait till he starts an argument, it'll be over soon
should I comment this: There is nothing we can do, does that not tell you enough @GMan, @Benjamin?
 
sbi
Found another typo. We're at version #7 now.
 
Zomg.... you're editing just to edit now.
 
8:04 PM
@sbi can you only do a limited number of edits?
 
@TonyTheTiger : See my second comment. Apparently people do not understand what is so obvious. If you can't come up with an answer, maybe it's because question is unclear or not helpful. Therefore..... not a question.
 
@sbi Edit 8 now
 
cpx
Can i check how many posts i have edited so far?
 
sbi
2 hours ago, by FredOverflow
After how many edits does an answer become community wiki?
2 hours ago, by sbi
@Xaade That could indeed be a problem. Now that gives me ideas... And There's nothing he can do!
@GMan just upped it to 9, but the question is now closed. :(
 
@sbi : Not sure why GMan couldn't understand me.
 
8:13 PM
I guess @GMan really wanted to help with the best of intentions
just needs to realize that even the best of intentions don't seem to make any difference to some
 
But my point is that he didn't want help to fix the problem. He wanted a discussion. Which is not helpful. If he wants a discussion, move to programmers exchange.
 
@Xaade true
 
cpx
chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/670405#670405 Just found it here, profile > activity > revisions, counting the revisions is exercise for user lol
 
@cpx If you're counting for the editing badges, then you need to exclude retag-only edits.
 
@TonyTheTiger I have to agree -- a real question would have been on the order of: "How can I get the compiler to accept my code to accomplish X. Here's what I've tried so far, but the compilers give the following errors:"
 
8:24 PM
@JerryCoffin yep
anybody ever had this bugcheck on win7: GRAPHICS_DRIVER_TDR_FAULT ? code 116
 
As I said, he wasn't seeking an answer. He KNEW the answer. He wanted to discuss why he thinks they're wrong. He's not looking for a workaround.
The resulting discussion would have been worthless to anyone seeking an answer. Which, is self-prophecy, because it already is.

All we've proved is how immature the community is to any new users.
 
cpx
@CatPlusPlus Ah ok.
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin I fully agree. Now go and tell that to @GMan.
 
The important thing is not how it can be reworded, but rather the intent. He could as well come in after you and re-edit to be just like what he started with, a statement with a complaint, and not a question.
 
Is he worth the waste of our words?
 
8:34 PM
As it were, I could compare it to:
I understand that a switch case has to have a break; statement so the program execution doesn't follow through to the next case. I don't understand why?

No, "Could someone explain why?"
No, "Is there a way to have breaks be implicit?"
No question to be found...

Just a statement with no real answer.
 
there's better things to talk about? NO? Singletons? Sex? any other of these interesting topics.... but not someone who's main motto seems to be that nothing can be done anyways
 
I understand the sky is blue because of the way light refracts through the atmosphere. I just don't understand why?
 
@Xaade I think we get your point...
From here on the topic has changed
 
room topic change to: Lounge<C++>: Where wastes of time are par for the course
 
@Xaade lol
 
sbi
8:41 PM
I didn't do it. :)
 
cpx
lol
 
@sbi lol, normally it posts a room topic change....
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger We could talk about the blue sky, sex, Singletons, Haskel, C, stters and getters, or any other abomination, and there's nothing they can do.
 
@sbi true, absolutely nothing
 
8:43 PM
.NET is full of getters and setters - so we might as well enjoy the abomination :P
@sbi wow you can even view all revisions... scary what they keep on us
 
@TonyTheTiger I prefer to avoid it. IMO, the proper name for a setter is operator= and for a getter operator T.
 
@JerryCoffin oh lulz, we were joking around you know, and there is nothing you can do :P
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Yeah, this will be part of the next installment of the newbie hints.
@TonyTheTiger Well, I dearly hope @Jerry was joking to when he proposed the implicit conversion operator.
 
Let's change the topic by not talking about the previous topic, but simply using puns to refer to the previous topic....
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Where the topic never really changes
 
sbi
8:49 PM
@Xaade I didn't know you were an owner!
 
@sbi are you preparing some new ones... like Singletons are good for some heated discussion, please bring them up often
@sbi hahahahahahah :P
@sbi maybe he's really meta-police? hiding in disguise...
 
@sbi Actually, no I wasn't joking at all. I should add, however, that this is done in a small class that does noting but act as a proxy for the wrapped type.
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Yeah, a new installment of the newbie hints should probably mention Singletons, sex, TNWCD and other things as room memes. :)
@TonyTheTiger @Xaade is a secret moderator sent to us to sniff out this stinking nest of the SO resistance? Uh oh. Now we're in real trouble.
 
@Xaade The more it changes, the more it stays the same. At the rate we're going today, no real change will ever be possible.
 
@sbi oh man, The SO resistance now that's a cool new name for us lot
 
8:53 PM
@sbi Yes, I'm perpetuating this evil off-topic discussion lair, so I have sufficient material to report it to the mod-gods.
 
I KNOW NOTHING, YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING.
 
@CatPlusPlus there is history...
 
sbi
@JerryCoffin Ouch. I've done this too, years ago, but then found that, over time, I had to remove more and more of those, because they tended to kick in in unwanted situations. So I stopped using them altogether. Never looked back.
 
The SO Resistance should have a motto and a symbol
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger I'd rather not make this the room's tag line. :)
@CatPlusPlus There's nothing you can do.
 
8:54 PM
@sbi no, but it can be a meme :)
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: The not SO Resistance
 
@Xaade lulz
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Resisting the coding horror. :)
 
Double meaning FTW
 
sbi
@Xaade My fingers are itching.
 
8:55 PM
The OHM Resistance.
 
@sbi An example of what I'm talking about: stackoverflow.com/questions/3181766/…. I've never had to edit out an instance yet, and can't imagine it arising -- the intent is that the wrapped item should nearly always act exactly like a bounded version of the underlying type.
 
@sbi There is nothing we can do (except resist)
@sbi why not?
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Was my pun too subtle?
 
@sbi yea, I like to be blunt at times
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger But you haven't been blunt about what I had been subtle. Did you miss it?
@JerryCoffin Well, maybe that's indeed an exception to the rule, but I'd still be wary. IWe're all writing .c_str() for a reason.
 
9:00 PM
@sbi I maybe dumb, but I thought that my statement was what you implied in your subtle statement
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Well, you might want to meditate about the meaning of "coding horror" in relevance to SO...
 
@sbi oh gosh, why did I not think of that
silly me
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger maybe I should use CAPITAL LETTERS?
 
@sbi Quite a different situation though: that would return a pointer where this returns a copy.
 
sbi
Like so: Resisting the Coding Horror.
 
9:02 PM
@sbi no I got it now....
@sbi thx for the reminder of the horror
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger Yeah, but the intent was that you should get it without me having to nudge you so badly that you'll likely have a sore shoulder now.
 
T̲̖͕̲̮̟̍͂ͥͮ͆̊ȟ̡̑̿̈́ͨ̚e̶ ̠̻͔̉h̸̹o̟̩r̯͓̞͐͗̀̓͡r̻͉̞̃ͧͬ͘oͬ̏ͤ͊ͦͨrͩͣ̆͌ͭͨ͏͎̼̟̮̫̯͇.̢̗̲͋̂̃.
 
sbi
Ah, what the hell...
I didn't do it! :-x
:)
 
@sbi my shoulders are generally not sore, but my feet are sore though, every day and every waking moment of my life... if that helps
@sbi there's nothing you can do
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I never understood what that was all about.
 
9:04 PM
Confused.
Please add "Coding Horror" to future meme section of newbie hints.
 
sbi
Piotr? Can you please elaborate? (I know stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/…, BTW, and still can't make sense of that.)
@CatPlusPlus I still don't get it. How's it done?
 
cpx
@CatPlusPlus Hm.. thats about 81 bytes!
 
@sbi With the dark powers of the Unicode. There's an online generator. :P
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus I had found it. I can see that it works. But I still don't know how.
Anyway, it's passed 11pm here, I'm still at work, I'll need an hour to get home, and need to be back here by 9am. So I better get going now.
 
9:18 PM
@sbi you're still at work... pffff
 
sbi
@TonyTheTiger To be clear: I haven't worked for hours. I was waiting for unit tests to finish successfully, but they did that hours ago, while I got lost here in the chat...
It's OK @Sony, Network Security is overrated. || Sony leaks 12,700 credit cards, 24.6 mil accounts compromised http://aol.it/sonyfails
 
@sbi oh the chat really isn't good for any of us, that's proven now :)
@sbi serious security fail by Sony
 
@sbi Those are called combining characters. Instead of being standalone, like 'a' or 'ą' or whatever, they modify other characters (the ones that stand before them, to be precise) — so the renderer backtracks and combines their glyphs with the previous ones.
@sbi If you copy that text and save it as UTF-8, you'll see 'T<several multibyte sequences>h<several multibyte sequences>...'.
They're all outside basic Latin range, so they'll always be at least 2-byte long.
 
sbi
@CatPlusPlus Ah, thanks. Those I've heard about.
 
@sbi : Great. I'm one of those
I guess I could call my bank.
 
sbi
9:31 PM
Anyone of you likes Lady Gaga?
Well, me neither, but Terra Naomi has dune a stunning cover of Judas.
 
9:50 PM
Nice one (I didn't hear the original though :))
 
sbi
@Eugene I did, for about 30secs, then turned it off. Can't stand that stuff.
 
10:02 PM
@sbi Listening now to Gaga's Judas for the first time... Sounds remarkably like her previous songs...
 
I like her version of Jackson's song (first related). I can actually hear the lyrics :)
 
10:43 PM
Hi everyone
for those that were here this afternoon:
0
Q: Implement QuickSort in BrainFuck

RonaldAs discussed in the Lounge room on Stack Overflow: if you can't implement the Quicksort algorithm given en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicksort in any language you have minimal knowledge of, you might want to consider a different profession. @sbi but SBI also noted that maybe BrainFuck was an excep...

 
 
1 hour later…
11:51 PM
@RonaldLandheerCieslak This is one I will not be entering! :-)
 
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