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19:01
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think so
@MooingDuck Oh man. I am going to ask you to proofread next time.
I will have to fix it too
@VinayakGarg happens
@DeadMG When is the meeting?
April 15-20
I could commute there from my parent's place if I wanted to
19:08
Oh, that's only next year.
Duh. What was I thinking.
Won't you be in Linz by then?
@Drise the id of this message is the best number in the world. type it in your calculator and turn it upside down.
friendly message from rlemon.
runs away, this room scares me
4
One of my colleagues listed "peer pressure" as his motivation for Movember.
What is "Movember"?
19:13
Silliness.
Why do I always need to explain that?
Why is that not more popular in Europe?
Moving in November?
Moving a member?
@EtiennedeMartel Because no one cares about moustaches.
Moustache november.
@FredOverflow Here are the rules.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Don't talk like the Cat.
4
> These days I'm mostly programming in Haskell, having spent the past 5 years going through that painful but eye-opening learning curve. Most of the code I maintain is Perl, C, and shell script, but I'd just as soon use Haskell for anything new. I've gradually became a big fan of Haskell; I feel it makes me write much more solid code that is much easier to maintain and refactor. But the best part is there are seemingly no end of things to learn in the Haskell space.
Xeo
Xeo
19:19
Gaaah, this is driving me mad.
@Xeo What is?
Xeo
Xeo
1 hour ago, by Xeo
template<class... Ts>
using back = identity<...>;
template<class... Ts>
using Back = Invoke<back<Ts...>>;
// how can 'back<...>::type' work and 'Back<...>' not? :s
@FredOverflow He said this, so this
Xeo
Xeo
Hmhm
Interesting
Should this be a pointer or a reference? ;)
Xeo
Xeo
19:22
changing Back to using Back = typename back<Ts...>::type; instead of using Invoke makes the error disappear. Wtf.
Are you just dabbling with variadic templates for fun, or is there anything specific you would like to achieve?
@Xeo It. Is. A. Bug.
wat dafuq is Invoke anyway
Xeo
Xeo
@FredOverflow Just for fun and learning. Mostly transformations and extractions on sequences of integers and types in as few instantiations as possible.
I'm more used to INVOKE(f, args)
Xeo
Xeo
19:24
@DeadMG template<class T> using Invoke = typename T::type;
Apr 10 at 20:03, by Luc Danton
Improves readability, saves typing, improved love life, etc.
@R.MartinhoFernandes No more double colons in love life? :(
@VinayakGarg wait, if wires aren't removable that means I have completely the wrong algorithm. Time to start over :(
@MooingDuck You really should ask it as a comment. So I can clarify for everyone. I have updated the problem on my side, but seems the Admins are zzZZ...
@VinayakGarg it's not something that needs a response. Just a realization I just had
19:34
@MooingDuck ah good! If you regularly take part in challenge, you will remember to read at least thrice before coding the solution.
hmm, C++ won't let me make a map who's value is an iterator to another node in same map in a typesafe way.
@MooingDuck Infinitely recursive type.
@DeadMG only in the name. The value is a glorified pointer.
@MooingDuck A pointer to what?
you're trying to describe a pointer to a pointer to a pointer to a pointer to a ....
@DeadMG so? That's how a linked list works
I guess I can makes the values be keys instead and just look them up
19:37
@MooingDuck So, using your_iterator = pair<Key, your_iterator>*;?
but the map's value type cannot be an incomplete type
@R.MartinhoFernandes I want a std::map<key, value>, where value is std::map<key, value>::iterator.
and nor can the iterator type
@MooingDuck And that cannot work because you need the size of map<key, value> to instantiate map<key, value>.
@R.MartinhoFernandes right
19:39
Something like that.
Woot, it compiles!
@R.MartinhoFernandes There's no theoretical reason what I want can't be done. It's just that the C++ standard library can't handle it.
Produces completely bogus results, but it compiles, dammit!
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck What would the first inserted value point at?
@MooingDuck It can't be done because the types are recursive. You need map<key, value> to have map<key, value>::iterator.
19:43
@DeadMG It could be done if the iterator types did not depend on the containers.
(Is that what the SCARY iterators are? I have no idea)
Xeo
Xeo
Yep
@R.MartinhoFernandes They can reduce some dependencies.
not necessarily all
Xeo
Xeo
SCARY iterators would be like template<class Key, class Value> class map_iterator;
@Xeo Hmm. But now you need Value to be map_iterator<Key, Value>.
you'd still have the same problem
map_iterator<K, map_iterator<K, map_iterator<K, ...
Xeo
Xeo
19:46
struct map_value : map_iterator<K, map_value>{};, I guess? Something like that.
Oh. Silly me.
Can't do binary searches on non-sorted data.
Right?
RIGHT?
WTF was I thinking.
Xeo
Xeo
heh
@R.MartinhoFernandes That doesn't matter.
Xeo
Xeo
19:46
You can. Just don't expect any sensible result.
at least, not in the case under discussion
@DeadMG What doesn't matter?
that you don't know the comparator
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG He was talking about his own code problems
19:47
Oh, I was not talking about the case under discussion.
Xeo
Xeo
6 mins ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Produces completely bogus results, but it compiles, dammit!
Now I need to wait two minutes to regenerate the database...
> This is the way we wash our hands, fadalala lalalala
@Xeo that works, good thought!
Xeo
Xeo
19:57
If a template requires complete types, does a pointer to a specialization of that template also require complete types? (aka, is what I did there actually standard compliant?)
I don't recall if generating a pointer to a template instantiation actually counts as an instantiation, as twere
but easy enough to check - just template<typename T> struct f; f<int>* p;
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG That proves nothing, does it?
Since you don't use T in any way that requires it to be complete.
@DeadMG You probably meant to stick a static assertion in there.
@Xeo But f isn't even defined. So the compiler can't possibly even check if f uses it in a way that requires it to be complete.
Xeo
Xeo
Hm, true.
20:00
since f isn't instantiated, then it can't matter whether or not the arguments are complete.
since we didn't instantiate it
5
A: C++11. When should compiler generate move constructor?

Howard HinnantThis part of C++11 is unfortunately in flux. And whatever the standard is going to say, VC11 couldn't possibly implement it yet. So for today, I don't believe you'll be able to count on generated move members. However, this is a good question and I wanted to get a good answer out on it. In ge...

They changed these rules again...
"are you a girl? if so, can I see your tits?"
How forward of him.
"I'm not a girl, but here's my boobs anyway. Enjoy!"
20:11
lol
Straight to the point.
yeah
you can't say that he doesn't know what his goals are in life
@EtiennedeMartel I think I can say that I share the feeling...
I belched.
also, dafuq is a pinned tab
A tab that is pinned.
20:16
norly :P
@DeadMG do you mean the ones in firefox?
I'm a Chromer
but presumably they are similar
yeah, in firefox you can pin tabs and they will then get only a small icon which will permanently stay in your tabbar. I find them convenient for sites which you have always opened (like SO) as they save space
user142019
Man.
user142019
I wrote 11k LOC for our project for school. :/
user142019
20:22
Way too many.
@bamboon so does chrome
sucker

Java Engineer at BzzAgent

BzzAgent seeks an engineer with experience building world-class products in a nimble and entrepreneurial fashion. This is an opportunity to build and enhance a core set of…

Posted on Careers 2.0 on October 9, 2012

Java is many things, but it is not nimble
user142019
Java is many things, but it is not anything that is not terrible.
What theh hell is "world-class"?
20:28
> Work within an Agile environment on cross-functional teams.
You must do that
Whatever the fuck that is
Hmm. BzzAgent appears to be corporate-sponsored word-of-mouth.
This looks like an happy person.
no, rly
WTF is Burt's Bees?
Dunno.
It's one of BzzAgent's clients.
Oh, you're investigating that ad?
20:34
I was curious to see what they do.
@R.MartinhoFernandes They make lotions and stuff. Their lip balm is actually pretty awesome
Turns out it's just another cynical attempt at making money out of human biases.
A favorite of many a brass player I've met
> America could do better than Barack Obama; sadly, Mitt Romney does not fit the bill
The Economist endorses Obama.
Mr. and Mrs. Mooing Duck for halloween.
20:37
@MooingDuck Is this one internet approved? :-P
@MooingDuck Oh, yeah, Matrix. Too bad they never made any sequels. /cc @R.MartinhoFernandes
@Collin yeah I got permission
@EtiennedeMartel I know, right?
Learning fast I see
Ell
Ell
right, 10th time lucky. or something
Xeo
Xeo
20:44
> @MooingDuck not disguised as Psy Duck for Halloween
Son, I am disappoint.
There was indeed a missed opportunity.
what even is it with halloween
Oh, damn it.
I never dressed up or trick-or-treated or anything like that
Good for you.
20:48
I am good by definition
I like how "to trick or treat" is a verbing of a question.
@DeadMG Free sugar, mostly
@DeadMG I would categorize you as chaotic neutral, actually.
@EtiennedeMartel lol, I could picture your face right now.
@VinayakGarg my code compiles and executes without error, but is incorrect for the sample input. I'm also aware of several more optimizations that can be done, but I dont have time for it now
20:50
@EtiennedeMartel That's what everyone picks to justify every insanity they came up with by blurting "My character is chaotic neutral; she can do whatever she wants"
Luckily my players were not like that cough cough
Well, after a few years they did stop doing that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes During the student conflict, in Quebec, there were the "red squares", who were against the hike, and the "green squares", who supported it. Typical green square argumentation mostly featured the words "I", "me" and "my". It reminded me of that.
Xeo
Xeo
my D&D character is actually chaotic neutral
@Xeo I didn't know you played that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes When I play RPGs, I'm mostly chaotic good. Screw authority, I'm gonna save the world myself.
Xeo
Xeo
I didn't until some weeks ago when I went to Oberhausen and stayed at a friend's place. His D&D group stopped by for a day to play and I joined
20:52
Pity you're moving away. I'd love to get a new group to play.
why are liars so successful in society
@Xeo Did you like that?
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Knowledge is power?
Xeo
Xeo
Was fun.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'd imagine most of us have played that
@Cheersandhth.-Alf I'm not that successful.
20:54
yeah, I think that Chaotic Neutral works for me
@EtiennedeMartel One of us used to play paladin characters (lawful good), and then come up with plans like "let's poison the well! That will get us rid of the killer!".
Xeo
Xeo
I really like my character. A chaotic-neutral, dual-mace-wielding hob-goblin cleric praying to the war god Dol Dorn.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ouch.
@EtiennedeMartel well you're not a liar either
Xeo
Xeo
Paladins suck, from what I saw. You have to be lawful good.
Oct 22 at 20:29, by Cheers and hth. - Alf
@EtiennedeMartel that is your fifth lie today, as i count
20:57
@Xeo na, just lawful
@Xeo IME paladins severely hurt the game.
(If it's not clear, I'm not serious)
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Why?
They are constantly annoying everyone, and imposing their morals on the party.
Xeo
Xeo
20:58
Ah, I see.
Paladins are the heroic fantasy equivalent of douchebags.
Xeo
Xeo
I really need to get into the "chaotic-neutral" mindsetting, though. I feel like my character has been a bit too friendly at times.
@EtiennedeMartel Yep.
@Xeo Either that, or they lose their paladinhood fast, after poisoning a well somewhere.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes hehe
@Xeo We eventually got rid of all mechanic aspects of alignments.
21:00
@R.MartinhoFernandes Completely Miko
No one likes to play cookie cutter morals.
@Xeo There's nothing wrong with being friendly as a chaotic neutral. Just remember to make it further your own ends at the same time.
I'll be honest here: I never played a single game of D&D.
@EtiennedeMartel glad I am not the only one who doesn't understand a bit
@bamboon I understand stuff, that's the worst part.
21:02
what's a decent torrent client that's not apt to install malware on my machine?
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG Well, when my character joined the party, they found him at his god's shrine, were a fellow cleric was drunk and sleeping. After me waking him, he puked on the god's statue. Instead of killing him immediately, I wanted to knock him unconcious only. :(
uTorrent
@DeadMG still? seems all ad-ified now
21:03
@DeadMG It does install stuff even if you uncheck everything in the installer.
@Xeo Eh. What's wrong with that?
@EtiennedeMartel o rly?
Yep. I made sure to not install any crapware, and I still had to go in the add/remove software thing list to remove the stuff it installed anyway.
what kind of stuff?
Mostly toolbars and browser plugins, IIRC.
there are sure no toolbars or browser plugins on my browser
Xeo
Xeo
21:04
@DeadMG Chaotic-Neutral, praying to the god of war. I bet he wanted to see the blood of the fool that desecrated his shrine.
@Xeo That sounds evil. Also, cookie cutter morals. Trust me, they take away some of the fun.
@Xeo Well, if you feel like getting friendly with the god of war is worth more than your buddy's life, then kill him. Else, don't kill him. ^^
Why does everyone thinks "worshipping a war deity" means "being a berserker in battle"?
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG Buddy? He was a random other cleric, not somebody I know. :)
hmm
well, you might also get thrown in jail or his children come to get revenge or something
Xeo
Xeo
21:06
Oh well, we'll see how it goes on at the next meetup. The GM is from Austria and is moving to NRW sometime this month.
anyways, it's your perception of the potential ups and downs that matters
Xeo
Xeo
So we'll be able to have more frequent sessions.
@DeadMG Well, that's why I wanted to knock him unconcious first and kill him away from the puplic eye.
effective
Xeo
Xeo
That gave him the chance to escape, though. :/
@Xeo Doesn't sound too "war-ish".
Xeo
Xeo
21:07
I screwed up my dice roll.
obviously you didn't smack him hard enough
War is glorious, after all.
Murdering unconscious strangers sounds petty, not warlike.
the war's kinda already won, I mean, with him lying on the ground
@R.MartinhoFernandes Exactly. I'd assume someone worshipping the god of war would at least give his opponent a fair fight. Then decapitate him.
Unless we're talking Sun Tzu style war.
But then... I don't know. Woa, I just realized there's a lot of leeway there.
21:12
Still, who cares? If the rest of the party is happy with travelling with someone that murders random strangers in unfair circumstances, so be it.
Well, it's useful to have someone to take care of the dirty stuff. That way the bisexual elven druid can keep a clean conscience.
(If that wasn't clear already, I hate elves. But not bisexuals. Those are cool.)
I don't think any of my players ever played an elf. Mostly humans and dorfs.
See? Everyone hates elves.
@R.MartinhoFernandes dwarves?
And since Salvatore wrote about Dritzz, every damn Drow is chaotic good.
@EtiennedeMartel well i put that on the account for disturbed emotional state. people do lie (trying to convince others of what they know is false) when they feel strongly about that it's sort of "necessary". that doesn't make you a liar, only human.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Someone should bend the rules and roll a time traveling steampunk robot.
do I dare install ubuntu 64-bit?
@EtiennedeMartel Haha, no one in my play group read that until lots later.
@EtiennedeMartel Someone played an HK-bot in a SW setting once.
i am less sure of how to categorize the act of saying something that you know is untrue in order to convince someone of what you know is true
21:16
@R.MartinhoFernandes when my friends and I were learning DnD, we played with two guys who had played before. One DM'd, and the other couldn't remember which were real rules and which were house rules his previous party did to make themselves overpowered.
@R.MartinhoFernandes SW?
Took us a while to figure out why he was so much more powerful than we were.
Star Wars.
@MooingDuck lol
Oh, right. I played that once. Rolled a human soldier dude.
@R.MartinhoFernandes He had kept rerolling all stats less than 11.
21:18
I bet he was a munchkin.
@MooingDuck In my groups, I make the rules. If I get them wrong, we play with the wrong rules. I don't care; I don't want to spend time rules lawyering. If anything egregious happens, we can use the right rules the following week.
I like Paranoia for that: if a player reveals any knowledge of the rules, he gets a summary execution.
@EtiennedeMartel yes
When we played Paranoia I didn't GM, so I don't know the rules.
Reminds me I'm quite behind in Darths & Droids. Gonna have to do some catching up.
Yeah, that's actually where we learned about Paranoia from.
21:22
> TIL the words "protect" and "IP" in combination give me violent diarrhea
Ok, I'm going to sleep. Tomorrow's the first day of work.
Good night.
Xeo
Xeo
template<unsigned N, unsigned... Is, unsigned... Js>
struct pop_front<N, seq<Is...>, seq<uint_<Is>::value..., Js...>>
  : seq<Js...>{};
// partial spec, Y U NO WORK like I want you too? :(
Godluck and goodspeed!
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes g'night and hf!
Godspeed or God Speed comes from the Middle English expression "God spede (you)" or "God speed you on your way", a wish for success and fortune for one setting out on an enterprise, voyage, adventure, or travels. It may also mean good luck. It may refer to: * Godspeed (ship), one of the three ships of the English Virginia Company in 1607 * Goodspeed Publishing, a company that specialized in publishing works of local history and biography * Godspeed Studio, a company that specializes in graphic design and web design * Goodspeed (surname), people with the surname Goodspeed * Goodspeed Ope...
@GamErix What the fuck is that?
user1182183
@EtiennedeMartel a school system wherey ou can log in, review your grades, which lessons are canceled, what's the homework, etc
user1182183
in FUCKING depreciated SILVERLIGHT O_O
user1182183
21:30
I bet they just change the version number each day so we think they actually update something...
html 3 still works in all browsers
user1182183
oh and all those linux users have trouble getting onto that at home cuz of silverlight
user1182183
even Java is better...
user1182183
did I kill everyone with that last sentence? O_o
@GamErix no, I agree
bah
my coworker sent me an email complaining that my code doens't work. I look at the source control and see that he commented out a bunch of random lines. >.<
Xeo
Xeo
21:38
Hmpf. I wonder why this doesn't work.
I thought it'd deduce Is... first, expand them into the second seq, and then deduce Js... from the trailing arguments inside of the passed seq<0,1,2>.
@MooingDuck o.O and he didn't make the connection between his commenting and the code not working?
@EtiennedeMartel class World maybe?
@Xeo 0, 1, 0, 1, 2?
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck Js... = 2
So it's xf(seq<0,1>, seq<0,1,2>)
@Borgleader he made the change two months ago, didn't notice the not working until now
@Xeo oh right, I see
21:42
@MooingDuck Not sure which is worse...
@Xeo why int_?
int_? where?
@Borgleader sorry
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck I was hoping that would lead to Is... not trying to be deduced from both seq parameters.
Xeo
Xeo
21:44
(which seems to work, but Js... just doesn't want to be deduced)
heh llvm.org/demo/index.cgi has clang, but no C++11 mode
@Xeo Sorry, I'm too lazy too try clang on my machine
I generally found that site quite disappointing
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck Clang also doesn't compile it.
And for the class template partial spec, I get a nice warning from Clang:
t.cpp:5:8: warning: class template partial specialization contains a template
      parameter that can not be deduced; this partial specialization will never
      be used
struct X<seq<Is...>, seq<int_<Is>::value..., Js...>> : seq<Js...>{};
       ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
t.cpp:4:28: note: non-deducible template parameter 'Js'
template<int... Is, int... Js>
I really wonder why Js isn't deducible, really.
what's the primary template?
@Xeo isn't there a requirement that the variadic template has to be hte last parameter?
21:57
not always
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck For functions, it's not, since they can be deduced.
@DeadMG template<class S1, class S2> struct X;
(aka just look here)
@Xeo huh, I thought it was the case due to the standard being strict. I was aware there's lots of cases where it doesn't have to be last in theory.

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