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09:00
I agree with the "NotFocused" part.
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@sehe, seems LWS works again
Oh, that's auto-generated.
The "poem" is still funny thou
sbi
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Sorry, but as a Berliner, I just can't help but have to post this one, too:
Brrr. So cold in Berlin today. Thanks to the amazing iOS 6 maps, I know why: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_many9aVldB1rhptwbo1_1280.jpg (from http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/post/31970259679/berlin-antarctica)
Wait, is that class by any chance for an InternalFrame ?
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@ereOn No. It's for three of them. Isn't that obvious?
09:04
@sbi: Sure. My bad :(
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@sbi LOL'd
Wasn't focused enough i guess.
@Xeo Cheers
What tab width are you guys using? I usually have 4 but now I'm starting to like 2
Edited in the links since LWS is up again. Also added background showing the usual alternative for completeness — sehe 12 secs ago
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09:07
Bwuahaha! No more Fucking in Austria! (In case you hadn't heard: There's a town named Fucking in Austria. Well, at least according to google, there is.)
2
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@sehe I think your links don't quite work yet. :)
@Xeo Oh. Hey, that's surprising
@Xeo Okay, fixed the second one then. That was unwarranted pluralization there :)
Do you use lock_guard or unique_lock as the default choice for a scoped lock?
09:13
isn't there a scoped_lock ?
Xeo
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Erm. One is a mutex, the other is a guard. How is there a "choice"?
@sbi surely that was a photoshop, right
@ereOn lock_guard IIRC
@Xeo Sorry, typo.
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@ereOn I think that was Boost, in C++11 it's lock_guard
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@sehe I dunno. I have an Android phone, so I can't check.
09:14
Yep Boost it is.
@sbi Too bad, we both miss out. OTOH: we can't afford getting lost in cyberspace twice a week (cf. XKCD)
lock_guard and unique_lock both seem to do the same. unique_lock has more options.
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@StackedCrooked One is movable out of the locking context, the other isn't
I don't know how you guys can use C++11. I every placed I worked (or still work), we always had such old platforms to be compatible with that its impossible to use a decent compiler with C++11 support.
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Think unique_ptr vs scoped_ptr
09:16
wow... Just spent an hour debugging a problem with a test server misbehaving when our client software tries to log in against it.
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@sehe What? I don't feel like I miss anything because I don't have an iPhone. Not that I think google is a pillar of lawful, fair-minded, and humble business — but at least in Android I can turn off most of their spying devices.
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@ereOn Pro tip: Code in your free time and use C++11 there!
(Not to mention that I never met anyone that could tell what C++11 would bring except on SO)
@Xeo: I do actually.
turns out it just hasn't completed the reinstall job it does overnight
installer is still running
@sbi Up the sarcasm detector input gain a little, will you?
09:18
@sehe He needs more caffeine.
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@ereOn Comeau used to be a way out of this debacle. You could compile with the best C++ compiler (little) money could buy, and then use the platform's decade-old C compiler to produce a compatible executable from the C code Comeau vomits. From what I have seen the last years, though, Comeau seems all but dead.
@StackedCrooked I drink very little coffee.
@Xeo C++11 doesn't have scoped_ptr. Probably because unique_ptr covers both. I think it's the same with lock_guard vs unique_lock.
0
Q: C++11 Lambda Template Infering

JookiaSo I have the following code: #include <iostream> template <typename T> class funcky { public: funcky(char const* funcName, T func) : name(funcName), myFunc(func) { } //private: char const* name; T myFunc; }; #if 0 int main(void) { char const* out =...

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@StackedCrooked Yeah, unique_ptr is scoped_ptr on steroids.
@sbi Ermm. It's not as if that would be acceptible in environments that delay moving to newer versions of compilers... In effect you'd be moving to a newer compiler and complication build process
09:20
I have a gut feeling that <typename T> is not just how to pass lambda's to a template.
but I may be wrong
@sbi Hence, the need for more caffeine. You know, no need to imbibe coffee for that
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@TonyTheLion It isn't for classes
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@sehe Ah. I thought he was referring to platforms where newer compilers are lagging years behind.
@sbi Comeau emits C code? You mean it compiles C++ to C like CFront?
@sbi Good to know. Now I still have to problem of convincing my coworkers to learn C++11 and to change the internal policy from "the best tools freedom can bring" to "best tools money can buy"
09:21
@StackedCrooked It can. I seem to vaguely remember LLVM being capable of the same
@Xeo std::function ?
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For functions, template<class F> void g(F f) works
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@ereOn I think Comeau is dead. ICBWT.
@sehe In fact, it can do nothing else.
@sehe IIRC CFront could not compile exceptions. Wait, that's probably wrong.
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@TonyTheLion Only if you know the signature. Which you should, if you plan on storing and calling this thing.
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09:22
@StackedCrooked Yes. Its backend is tailored to specific C compilers (GCC, MSVC etc.), and they offered porting relatively cheap.
@Xeo ah right.
I guess you're better equipped to answer that question than me
@TonyTheLion I'd use <typename Function> :p
@TonyTheLion Luc Danton might want to have a word with you :)
@StackedCrooked what do you mean?
He (and @R.MartinhoFernandes) recently claimed that it's a bad practice to pass std::function as function argument and that you should pass the function as a template argument.
oh I missed that
:(
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's full of lame people.
Division by zero is UB right?
@R.MartinhoFernandes I should go live there :P
@StackedCrooked And we're always right, right? There are already a few posts on SO where we expand on that.
hey guys, is it possible to make a hotkey feature in a program?
@R.MartinhoFernandes care to post a link, so I can read?
0
Q: C++ exception not caught in XCode iOS project

AnyI created a C++ library. I am using it in an iOS application. I thought of handling exceptions in C++ library and in order to test this I created a test scheme and called the c++ function from it. In the c++ function I intentionally wrote erroneous code. try { int i = 0; int j = 10/i; }...

09:27
@R.MartinhoFernandes I agree with you on this one.
lol
OP expects an exception to be thrown after a division by zero
I wish that was an option.
@TonyTheLion About 12-20 times :)
@MohamedAhmedNabil No. That's illegal. It is also patented.
@sehe seriously ????
Google accelerators maybe
09:29
@TonyTheLion We need a canonical post on this, but... we're either lazy or busy.
Lemme grep a little.
Doesn't scale well. The larger the classes, the longer it takes to copy them, (if it's even possible/safe). If the vector access needs a lock, moving pointers in/out is much faster than copying whole objects and so reduces the chance of contention. Any copying also implies that, at least temporarily, the data is in more than one place - not a good idea in general. — Martin James 1 min ago
huh?
@MohamedAhmedNabil But, seriously take your questions to google and possibly Stack Overflow. Oh, and try to word them in slightly non-naive ways ("can I make a program print a picture of cats licking a dog" - why, yes of course, just program the stuff)
@sehe Well that would just be AWESOME :D
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So this leading member of the German Pirate party, Julia Schramm, published a book. Not only do critics deem it almost unworthy to waste their time on writing a scalding review, her publisher also took down an illegal copy that was available on the web. Since she's a member of the party that promotes free copying, she's now at the center of a massive shitstorm.
Jul 26 at 15:47, by R. Martinho Fernandes
@sehe Anyway, while Luc writes that rebuttal, I recently wrote an answer where I had to explain this.
@StackedCrooked @TonyTheLion ^
09:31
@sehe and i swear i just came here because i had no idea about what to search for ^.^
@TonyTheLion He may have a point about the cost of copying. However saying that the vector access needs a lock doesn't make sense because he doesn't know if the program is threaded and if the vector is shared.
@MohamedAhmedNabil Then employ google to find out about them keywords.... ♫ maybe? -- 'cause, this is crazy ♫
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0
A: C++11 Lambda Template Infering

XeoIf you want to provide a way for a user to supply a callback to your class, you're better off using std::function, since templating the class on the function / functor type is not a very useful thing to do, as you experienced. The problem arises from the fact that you can't just take anything in...

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@R.MartinhoFernandes It's a major street in the center of Berlin. It passes right along the main train station, which is situated at a place where the Lehrter Stadtbahnhof used to be.
Is that hot enough? :)
09:34
@sbi Wait, it's really named Invalidenstraße?
Oh noes. Don't start on steganography
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, duh
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@StackedCrooked That's a burning key, not a hot one.
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@sehe Great, gonna use that link. :)
@sbi Burning implies hot.
@sehe Erm, that's "Invalid Street" according to the little German I know.
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09:35
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, it is. (At one end it becomes Veteranenstraße, BTW.) But the train station's name is outdated by several years!
@sbi Is there an overlap?
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@R.MartinhoFernandes "Invalid's street", rather.
Oh.
As in crippled people?
Hm.
@R.MartinhoFernandes This wasn't just a random blurt :)
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@StackedCrooked Nope. The street is called Invalidenstraße on one side of a crossroads, and Veteranenstraße on the other.
09:37
What the hell is up with iOS 6 maps?
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know. It's not a unique street name. Cf. Paris: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
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@R.MartinhoFernandes Read here
@Insilico Who knows
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@Insilico They're an entertainment app, obviously.
I hope the maps work in Cupertino. Because if it doesn't then that's a huge massive fail on Apple's QA department.
(Assuming they actually test their devices/programs there)
09:39
Ok, I feel silly now.
You feel silly because you learned? That's surprising
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@Insilico They are all over Twitter. Very funny.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hey maybe index packs for tuples is a good idea for a C++11 topic.
@sbi I just literally heard about the SNAFU a few minutes ago. lol
How long has iOS 6 been out now?
09:41
They're kind of all over the place on SO. (I use this as the canonical reference.)
I suspect tuples have undiscovered potential for really cool things.
Hmm. I don't have a Twitter nor an iDevice, so that's why it took a while for me to notice.
Could also be captionned : "Live like a hobo for a night and get an iPhone5 after that !"
@TonyTheLion - refactoring an app to accommodate multithreading, (and the inter-thread comms that goes with it), is very difficult and awkward if it's already riddled with stack-based objects and copy-ctors. IMHO, it's better to consider such things from the start, especially if you want your classes to be re-useable. Also, I don't think that anyone actually likes writing copy-ctors if they can avoid it:) — Martin James 4 mins ago
this guy is out of his mind
he seems to advocate pointers because they're "easier" to share between threads, because less copying
wut?
09:43
@LucDanton Yeah, they're quite common.
@TonyTheLion But sharing between threads is the exact opposite of what you want.
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@TonyTheLion Yeah, I also dislike writing copy ctors. I let the compiler do it for me. :)
Rule of zero :P
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@LucDanton That might be cool, I was a bit stumped the first time you guys used them.
09:44
@Insilico But you can lock all over the place! So much performance!
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@R.MartinhoFernandes ♥
@R.MartinhoFernandes Atomics!
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's not enough to show the implementation though. I see two typical usages: emulating pack expansion over tuple elements EXPAND( pattern );, but also deconstructing tuples via overloads.
@Xeo Nope. Remember, the objects are biiiig.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yes! Let's put locks here and there! Also, let's throw in some false sharing and inter-core bus traffic while we're at it!
Erm, now reading his actual reply... WTF multithreading is hard if you use stack-based objects?
Stack-based objects are probably the safest, since you can only share them with threads you create.
09:46
@R.MartinhoFernandes yes, WTF indeed.
@R.MartinhoFernandes The hell I know.
You have full control over the exposure stack-based objects.
Minimizing the sharing of data is what you want to increase concurrency and reduce the chance of deadlocking something
bah, multi-threaded code is overrated
I'm not sure why said commenter thinks making sharing easier should be encouraged.
09:48
Don't know either.
Wow iOS 6 maps are... terrible.
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@Insilico No, they're fun
@Insilico That's quite the euphemism.
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Remember, they're an entertainment app.
09:51
@Xeo They're terribly fun.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Makes no sense at all. Funny thing is that "multithreading" is his most common tag on his profile.
Was their QA department on crack or something when they tested iOS 6 maps?
@thecoshman multi-roping ftw!
@StackedCrooked synergy!
@thecoshman It's all about the coroutines and the fibers now!
09:53
@Insilico Nope, just the usual must-meet-deadline story.
@Insilico "What's a QA department?", they asked.
@StackedCrooked Yeah but they still could've left Google Maps as-is until iOS 7 or something.
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@StackedCrooked How do you know?
@StackedCrooked Actually, this isn't funny, but sad.
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's the "Qualified Assholes" department. The ones that find "bugs" but are actually features.
@sbi Educated guess.
09:54
@Insilico but the apple maps system is one of the highlights of the eye-phone 5
@Insilico I agree.
@StackedCrooked Sounds like a dangerous person to have on your team.
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Want Google Maps on iOS6? Type http://maps.google.com :) Enjoy high quality, accurate maps, turn-by-turn, transit, bicycle, traffic data…
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, that would be a nightmare.
@Insilico Google already submitted their maps app to the AppStore.
09:54
If you want reason to hate QA people, get a job working with anything medical/healthcare-related
@thecoshman They could've taken the iPhone 4, relabel it the iPhone 5 and still have people camping outside stores to get it.
@jalf I was of course joking about the QA thing.
@Insilico have you not seen the video? Some chat show took a 4s out on the streets and asked people what they made of the new 5
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@Insilico But only if they left the google maps on the system, because how were the customers to find any Apple stores with their faulty maps?
most people raved about it, even those with their own 4s in the other hand, "oh it's so much lighter"
09:58
@jalf I used to have one of those
@thecoshman Oh, I haven't seen that. I need to go look for it
Never before have I seen a mapping application fail so hard consistently.
Consistency is a good thing, right.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'll give it that.
@R.MartinhoFernandes indeed, get that right first, then you can improve from that.
I'm not sure if I want to know what kind of WTFery is going on under the hood of iOS 6 maps.
10:02
@TonyTheLion I'm +1ing your answer because it's the only one that mentions boost::ptr_vector. It is your best option when you are stuck with C++03, and it pisses me off that people decide to write those stupid delete loops instead of using ptr_vector.
I wonder if they're using really ancient map data or something.
@Insilico I think mapping software is very complex and that the current bugs are mostly due to lack of polish rather than due to a messed up codebase. (I could be wrong.)
@R.MartinhoFernandes cool.
And it pisses me off even more when people claim they don't want to use boost, and can't fucking think for a second and realize that they are supposed to use "a vector that deletes pointers automatically", regardless of whether it is from boost or not.
The choice is not between boost::ptr_vector and "stupid delete loop", but between boost::ptr_vector and "my own ptr_vector". </rant>
@StackedCrooked Complex, yes, but the maps are missing some entire rivers and airports. lol.
10:04
Missing airports is really big.
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's a jumbo bug.
@StackedCrooked I think it's more that they have a poor data set. From what I have seen, the code seems to be sound. It's hard to navigate to the right place, if you have no knowledge of that place. In fact, the mapping side of things is rather simple job to do, just a series of 'nodes' with weightings and slap some A* on the mother fucker
@StackedCrooked I'm going to spit fire on any plane puns
Maybe Apple is crowdsourcing the map building process. It does have a "Report a Problem" feature.
10:07
@Insilico that just goes to /dev/null
@thecoshman Should be easy to do since they are in plain sight.
> heap objects can be safely and easily be communicated by pointer
I'm laughing now.
@Insilico your out on a wing with that one lad
@R.MartinhoFernandes Okay, is it that same person? I'm going to go get my clue-by-four.
10:08
@thecoshman Now that's just full of hot air.
@Insilico let's not propeller this towards balloons
Actually you know what I'm not going to comment. The last time I did that it turned into a 26-comment-long thread.
@Insilico :(
@thecoshman You're being such a drag.
@Insilico Hehe. I won't either. I'll just laugh.
10:11
@Insilico would you like some up lift?
@thecoshman You're both airheads.
@StackedCrooked I'm Boeing under pressure
Ok, enough with that.
(so glad I got that one in)
@R.MartinhoFernandes NEVER!
@thecoshman I don't like that attitude of yours.
10:13
@R.MartinhoFernandes @Sbi! he's trying to spoil our fun!
@Insilico I barrel roll out of this
@thecoshman He should come and *pun*ish you.
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@thecoshman No, he's trying to spoil your pun.
@sbi indeed
@thecoshman You might as well jet your way out.
@Insilico why don't you just scram
10:17
@thecoshman Yes, I'm trying to spoil your plane puns with a link to Hurricane of Puns.
Thought I'd make that clear.
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah, I just saw "tvtropes... ah fuck him with his tvtropes"
@thecoshman Mach-ing me won't do you any good.
@R.MartinhoFernandes @Insilico I must resist ejecting from this
@R.MartinhoFernandes because there are so many absurd procedures and processes you have to follow, and auditors who come and check that you follow the correct QA processes, rather than checking that the medical device you're making actually works
10:20
@R.MartinhoFernandes sounds like to sort of wankery you would like
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(That will silence them for a while.)
also lots and lots of pointless paperwork and documentation documenting all the wrong things
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@jalf If you think that is absurd, you should try to work in this area in Germany.
I haven't seen that. Go one reading, @the.
@sbi I suspect it's much the same no matter which country you're in
@sbi huh?
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10:22
@jalf Bureaucracy is always worse in Germany.
@thecoshman You really think so?
@jalf ¬_¬ Germans cheat, they just get rid of spaces and claim to have a new word
@R.MartinhoFernandes you like TMW
It's just QA gone wrong. At some point, people had the very reasonable idea that "if this piece of hardware is going to be used in life-critical situations, then we should probably have some kind of process in place for verifying that it works". And then it ends up derailing itself, so that the process merely verifies that you've written a stack of inane documents and invented the right numbers to feed into your risk analysis
@jalf I'm surprised they haven't made a QA process for the QA process for the QA process.
boost::hash is not C++03, but boost. In environments that support tr1 (much more widely available than C++11), you can use std::tr1::hash<T>, defined in <tr1/functional>. — user4815162342 1 hour ago
I just... don't. can't. what the fuck.
"boost::hash is not C++03, but boost."
Well, no shit.
I don't even know what to say.
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@thecoshman OTOH, you stick words together to longer strings, only you leave the spaces in. For example, I am at a loss as to how to translate Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart Club Band into German, without stooping to "the band of the guy who..." Simply stringing words together like that just doesn't work in German.
@sbi Perhaps the rules of the German language was the inspiration for AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean.
(That was supposed to be an insult to the writers of AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean, not the German language)
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@Insilico Actually, no. This, too, I would find hard to translate into German without using "...of..." This is genuinely English, only that the syntactic rules of t he programming language it's used in demands removal of spaces.
@sbi Doesn't English have German roots?
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@Insilico You've just become aware that the guy you addressed is a 300lb gorille, right?
@sbi well... I assume you know perfectly well what it means, but to me at least, it makes perfect sense. Perhaps if it was phrased as "The band belonging to Sgt. Pepper called Lonely Heart Club", though maybe (As I am not to sure exactly what this means, it's a little bit ambiguous) "The band belonging to Sgt. Pepper who is part of the club called Lonely Heart"
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10:30
@Insilico No. English and German are both Western Germanic languages. They have common roots.
@sbi Ah, okay.
theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com is going to keep me entertained for a while.
@sbi 'stack-based objects make threading easier' - missed that one. To accept that places a heavy burden upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language, (I disagree:). — Martin James 5 mins ago
Is it just me or is he gone completely bananas now?
Does that even make any fucking sense?
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@Insilico English had most of its grammar beaten out of it when the Vikings moved in to force the Angles and Saxons to share their land with them. They also brought a lot of Northern Germanic words with them (swine vs. pig, will vs. want etc.). Later the French-speaking Normans (basically French-turned Vikings) took over, and brought in their Latin-derived words. Add the monks pushing Latin into the language, and you have the mess that now makes up English.
@R.MartinhoFernandes It says "I'm a fucking moron".
@sbi Sounds about right.
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Hm, I need 97 upboats and 55 posts in the tag...
10:35
I don't even understand what he's trying to say now.
"places a heavy burden upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language" WTF.
Exactly.
WTF is a pretty accurate description.
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@MartinJames: I can't help but have to assume you're trolling now. HAND.sbi 11 secs ago
I don't remember the English language having "logical and semantic resources".
10:40
@Xeo ROFL.
@sbi I do believe that the old Celtic languages, other the Brythonic which was quashed, also influenced modern English as well, though not to the extreme of the Angles and Saxons
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@thecoshman What are words from those languages used in modern English?
I would really love to see someone attempt to reverse engineer iOS 6 maps to see what the heck is going on with it
@Insilico Bad data.
10:44
The map polygons are all wrong.
I doubt it's a matter of programming.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I hope not. But how do you manage to get bad map data in the first place?
I would hope map data providers are at least somewhat competent.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Bing maps and Mapquest seem to have no trouble getting noncrappy map data.
@sbi HAND ? What does it mean ?
10:46
Have A Nice Day.
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@kbok Have A Nice Day. Basically, it means Fuck Off!
@Insilico Well, I was half-joking. But getting map data is a far from trivial enterprise.
I see. Somehow I was imagining a large hand.
@R.MartinhoFernandes True, but surely Apple have the resources.
@sbi I'm not to sure of any to be honest
10:47
@Insilico The author of the blog post I linked above disagrees.
It's probably a matter of integration then.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah just got done reading through that
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@thecoshman If I look at what's coming by here in the chat, it's essentially all Western and Northern Germanic, French, and Latin.
@Xeo Ow. That's bad :) And geeky
So apparently Apple hasn't bothered to put the maps through a human review process.
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@R.MartinhoFernandes "You cannot read about the errors in Apple Maps without realizing that these maps were being visually examined and used for the first time by Apple’s customers". Ha!
10:50
@sbi well, as you (presumably) do not speak Bythonic, I doubt you will pick up any words that are from it
This "Spring class" post trending on HN and G+ boasts an unequaled amount of suckage. This is typically the kind of behavior that makes the programmer community so despicable sometimes.
@kbok HN?
@Insilico Hacker News
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@thecoshman Actually, I was looking at your message and looked up the origin of every word I couldn't immediately place. Except for "Bythonic", I found nothing Celtic in it.
@kbok Are we talking about the AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean class thing?
10:52
@kbok Linky?
@Insilico Yeah.
> So few comments, so many upvotes - everyone agrees for once :) source
Oooh, my ego.
@kbok It's well-deserved ridicule in my opinion. It's the kind of thing you wouldn't write unless you royally screwed up earlier in the process.
@sbi that and (AFAIK) we do not having any people from regions who still make use of Brithonic languages
@sbi 信じられない!
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10:54
@StackedCrooked "essentially"
@Insilico The post itself has a smug tone and the presence of this class has hardly much to do with "What's wrong with Java".
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@thecoshman You do not have any native Latin, Old French, or Germanic speakers either. I was talking about the origin of words, not their current usage.
@sbi a think a lot of English places use Celtic derived names, but that is a bit of a moot point I will grant you
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@thecoshman Of course they do! But that's names, not language.
You're free to hate Spring but you have to provide solid arguments, and linking to a shitty class can be funny but in no way an argument for the quality of language design.
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10:56
@StackedCrooked "???jirarenai" ? What does the Kanji stand for?
@kbok True, I would limit the criticism to the Spring Framework. To be fair it's not a core Java class.
@kbok but it is fairly common in Java to overdose on design patterns. It's not entirely coincidental that a class like that showed up in a Java library
@sbi indeed, as I already conceded
@Insilico But like a comment hyperboled in a comment "but all java coders are this way".
but that's more an issue with that Java programming culture than with the language
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sbi
10:57
@kbok Actually, I am looking forward to spring. Unfortunately, we first have to scuffle through autumn and winter.
This kind of thing is all over the Java ecosystem.
@jalf Of course it is not, but he's just picking up one class and saying Java sucks because of it. What does he know, maybe this class is really marvelous when you use it.
Anyway that's library code and library users are not going to use that, ever.
10:58
He's picking one class to serve as a shiny example of his point.
Why are you assuming he's making his decision based solely on it?
sbi
sbi
@thecoshman Very interesting list, thanks! (A very small one, also, though.)
@R.MartinhoFernandes But he has no point actually
@kbok I think the point is pretty clear. It's a generalization, certainly, and you can't conclude much on the basis of the name of one class
but you can highlight it as an example of a more general problem
I have to go, sorry

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