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00:03
Pet chooks and trolls who are inching closer and attracting my attention get 1 common treatment - when caught, they are both getting a long and thorough petting regardless whether they like it or not! :x
00:14
Yo, yo, yo, whats everybody up to?
00:50
:-(
01:28
After keeping on piling on more things to take care of during the past few years, I am on the edge of breaking down. Struggling to keep things afloat.
It's like doing 4 part time jobs, but at the same time in charge of all four. I am annoyed to the core a lot of the times. But I have no one else to blame but myself.
To be fair, things are doing okay. But they could be better.
02:05
 
8 hours later…
nwp
nwp
10:33
I continued writing my isekai story. I'm at 1h 24m content now according to ghostwriter.
 
4 hours later…
nwp
nwp
14:26
Another project and cmake delivers constant pain as expected.
I probably spent over an hour trying to make a custom target go into a folder in the solution explorer and finally will just give up and accept the wasted hour.
@nwp well if it's cmake only then it's almost bearable, if you combine it with conan then you basically square the wasted time
nwp
nwp
It'd still only be 1h² :D
maybe it'll be 60min²
or maybe (1/24)days²
nwp
nwp
14:54
> 17>Error: Visual Studio has encountered an unexpected error.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
15:31
Is there such a thing an an error with VS that you didn't expect?
anyone hyped for the 64-bit Visual Studio? I doubt it'll make much of a difference, but people can finally stop nagging them about it I guess
15:52
@PeterT I routinely have source files over 4 Gig, so I really need a 64-bit editor.
[Message from Stack Overflow: Our AI has assigned a 72% chance that the preceding post may contain sarcasm.]
@JerryCoffin apparently the main issue was projects with insanely large numbers of dependencies
all of which had their own projects etc.
@Mgetz Maybe it's just me, but I think you hit the nail on the head with "insanely".
But I suppose I can understand how it happens, and how somebody would be really upset if they had a huge project, and suddenly they couldn't add any more. Having to convert a project that large to use other tools would undoubtedly be a pain.
@JerryCoffin eh... there is a point where dependency management systems become more useful IMO
many of those cases would be better served by just having an internal nuget or whatever server
@Mgetz That was kind of my point--a user starts with something that's probably suitable for VS. It grows to the point that it really isn't any more, but it's hard to pick a time when you need to bite the bullet and make serious changes to your build system. So people end up using VS projects for systems much larger than it really handles well.
The sprint-based mentality of (most?) modern project management doesn't help. PMs have had it drilled into their heads that they need to deliver new features every two (or whatever) weeks, regardless. So, many projects build up technical debt until they implode.
16:10
@JerryCoffin This is why I hate the tech debt model, there is either requirements complying code or there is a defect period
there is no such thing as tech debt to me
either the code meets the perf/security/whatever or it doesn't
16:25
@Mgetz Call it what you will, but consider code that works but is excessively difficult to build or maintain. In the long term, there's benefit from putting work into making it easier to build/maintain--but the work to do so doesn't directly fix bugs or produce new features.
Bottom line: for a real project, it's rarely just about where the code is right now. It's about where it can/will go over the next few years (or more--sometimes decades).
@JerryCoffin then you put the time needed in your estimate
the PO can decide if it's worth it to them
just be honest about it by virtue of the estimate
16:52
fuck, they made me switch to CamelCase at work, and now code looks like shit and my repetitive strain injury went up. Ugg, I didn't think I'd give a fuck but now I do. Also still gotta refactor to make the change :-/
@Mgetz At least from my perspective, that seems to largely miss the point. We started with VS, so let me use that as an example. VS has been in use for over 20 years. It's had at least one major rewrite during that time, but it's probably overdue for another, and the ideal would probably be to throw at least half of it away and start over on those parts.
So, for a given bug or feature, a PM probably has at least three separate options: do a quick (and probably somewhat dirty) fix for that problem alone, do a somewhat larger fix to clean up that area of code and fix three bugs in the process, or leave it for the next complete rewrite (or a combination, such as the quick and dirty fix, the a major rewrite later).
@JerryCoffin it's not the PM's choice or at least it shouldn't be. The team should decide as a group on a solution and estimate that. The PO should then make a prioritization decision. If the PM is making these decisions then you're not doing agile
@Mgetz A PO prioritizes features--but if they ask for three particular features, it's up to the PM to decide whether to do that as three little (possibly ugly) changes, or one major rewrite that cleans up a whole section of code.
lol I haven't worked with a PM for over 7 years
Ya'll want a new job, hit me up on the LinkedIn :-)
gotta put up with CameCase though :-/
17:08
@JerryCoffin but that's giving the PM power to dictate solution. Which is the antithesis of agile which is focused on a self-organizing team. The team makes the solution. The PM is supposed to be worried about scheduling stories in a ranked order backlog. You're talking Wagilefail not agile
PM's should never be giving technical solutions. That's for technical folks to do
@Mgetz I think you're being dogmatic. Consider that (for example) two bugs have been prioritized. The technical team points out that they can fix those (and only those), or they can do something else that takes 20% longer, but also fixes 3 other bugs in the process. But those haven't been prioritized (yet). So, at least if you care about doing things well rather than following a methodology religiously, you end up with a negotiation between the technical people and the PM about how to proceed
And proceeding is likely to involve shuffling priorities, so making a decision will typically involve negotiation between the PO, the PM, and the technical people.
@JerryCoffin not really? If they haven't been prioritized then they aren't of business value yet. You don't operate in a vacuum. You prioritize and make logical decisions based on scope. If one of those three bugs takes 8 times longer to fix than the two and the two are prioritized you deal with the two first
but you don't make decisions based on things you don't have scope for
that's standard grooming and triage
otherwise you're stealing work from your ability to deliver
@Mgetz Sorry, but you're being foolish. Not being prioritized doesn't mean they lack business value. It means they think other things have more value. But when/if you can save 50% overall by dealing with multiple bugs (or features) together, ignoring that efficiency would be foolish.
@JerryCoffin it means that you don't know what that value is
they could be completely fine to leave be for ages
but if you haven't triaged them you don't know
and moreover you could be missing a greater win on a higher priority item
Please don't insult others
or worse... they could be stories in the guise of bugs
Pointing out where you're letting dogma overrule intelligence isn't insulting. But you're too dogmatic to even being to grasp that.
I'm out.
17:23
but I'm not, but ok
all I'm saying is that assuming wastes resources
it's worth it to do a half hour triage meeting and then make a decision
at least I like reading the chat
18:27
tbf I could have phrased things better, to say they don't have business value yet... was wrong. I should have said they are of "Unknown business value"
 
2 hours later…
20:21
so clang-tidy has {key: readability-identifier-naming.GlobalFunctionCase, value: CamelCase} which works fine unless its a function pointer...

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