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00:50
I wonder the likelihood of world's richest man gets covid-19
user7659542
@Mikhail nope. Formulas are gone
@traducerad Have you tried to 'print as pdf'?
It does not really print, but saves as pdf for me.
user7659542
@TelKitty didn t try that
user7659542
I now just spent 2h rewriting all the formulas in a word editor
user7659542
it s 2 am
user7659542
00:59
I can now continue on my thesis
user7659542
I have to leave for to go to work in 4h
user7659542
great
user7659542
still have to:
- write one entire chapter on the usage of neural networks for financial portfolio optimization
- cite all the sources I used in my paper using their fcking style/guidelines
user7659542
the paper is due for today 11pm
user7659542
@TelKitty Not that in that case I will not be able to work on it anymore
user7659542
01:01
it s better than nothing though
user7659542
I ll have a cig first
user7659542
fck all that shit
OpenOffice is free, or you can use google documents. Both need extra learning though.
 
5 hours later…
05:44
@traducerad lol smoking, another reason why you won't belong at a FANG company.
@traducerad Skip work, tell them you're sick
user7659542
06:01
@Mikhail i m on the train on my way to work. Writing the last chapter as we speak
user7659542
@Mikhail that’s not the question here
user7659542
@Mikhail i m not an employee, I run a small business. So of i tell my client i m sick there s no money influx
Meh, just skip a day.
 
2 hours later…
08:02
@Morwenn heard any new songs lately?
08:22
@Mikhail Nothing specifically
I've mostly been listening to lo-fi and atmospheric breaks, which generally doesn't yield extremely catchy songs
Maybe that on the VaporFunk station:
But it's a lot reminiscent of DJ Mehdi's Signatune
When I search for Macintosh Plus I get Vektroid's album instead of the computer. Are we living in Jean Baudrillard's desert of the real or is google's algorithm broken?
Jacques Derrida and Jean Baudrillard's works seem to capture a mid century vintage that fails to resonate on an emotional level. For example, Derrida has discourse on zombie movies or out of fashion architectural styles. Buadrillard criticized plastic-fantastic (tm) American consumerism, perhaps his most famous comments was that a 1991 war against Hussein never happened.
08:40
@Mikhail That only says a lot about your interests
 
1 hour later…
09:46
when they say google is cloud native to the core
but large corporations arent
what is the alternative to cloud native?
At the heart the cloud enables scalable microservices. So not using scalable microservices?
which is what?
i have no idea
When I was a kid you'd just spit out a php program, then when your website got serious (like 100 simultaneous users) you'd get in trouble. Today you'd write a few microservices and hope they will scale automatically.
 
1 hour later…
nwp
nwp
11:04
It looks like our Christmas corona peak arrived. 7 day incidence +40%.
This is fine.
 
1 hour later…
12:05
@nwp You might achieve herd immunity first, at least you are moving closer to that.
nwp
nwp
In terms of percentage that had it we're way too low for that.
 
2 hours later…
14:21
@LucDanton How's life? Best wishes for the new year
I thought of you seeing this
No more twitter one-boxes? Sic transit gloria mundi
 
1 hour later…
15:28
@sehe cheers & my best sentiments! nothing to report here
@sehe and that’s just not fair
 
2 hours later…
16:59
@LucDanton Of course it's not fair. But quite a bit of it is pretty funny.
17:51
@Mikhail i read that nginx article but im still unsure as to why monoliths didnt scale?
@Trajan Its kinda reverse definition AKA anything that sucks and doesn't scale is called a monoliths. But generally the coding pattern prefered by cloud microservices is having the service be very small in terms of lines of code. So very elegant/compact inferfaces. I believe that article mentioned that it would not be unusual to have a service made of only a few thousand lines that does one small thing.
In some ways a "cloud based" approach is linking together rest apis
What the nginx article doesn't describe very well is that historic monolith designs were made of nearly pre-configured components, while nowadays everybody needs to waste time on re-creating the rest-api web of microservices. So in some ways configuring LAMP was easier than building a bunch of microservices.
So basically what should have been a WordPress plugin becomes 10 microservices and job security :-]
18:36
@Mikhail This is a lot of what's driving demand for devops. It requires some simple coding, and a lot of complex configuration (and honestly, it's gotten to the point that there's little differentiation between the two).
It's pretty different. To scale websites of old you'd need to call into a lower level language, then somehow distribute that across a cluster. Today you'd write a rest API over some python code and configure it to scale on-demand.
19:04
One day, repeated calls to dynamic cast will be cached. Motivation is to port a python isinstance switch.
19:14
8
A: C++ equivalent of java's instanceof

andi1337Instanceof implementation without dynamic_cast I think this question is still relevant today. Using the C++11 standard you are now able to implement a instanceof function without using dynamic_cast like this: if (dynamic_cast<B*>(aPtr) != nullptr) { // aPtr is instance of B } else { // aPtr...

^This is a pretty good answer, probably deserves more upvotes
@Mikhail what do you mean by recreating rest api of microservices exactly?
@Mikhail surely a monolith can only be loaded onto one computer and therefore isnt scalable?
@Trajan You'll notice that the nginx article showed the historic "hex" design pattern. All the elements in this design pattern could, and were, ran on multiple machines. It's just there wasn't a universal way to communication, scale, or load balance them.
so no rest apis?
how did it communicate to the frontend?
For example, distributing mysql across multiple nodes, then keeping those guys "in sync"
hmm
so the frontend and backend dont talk to each other
just the sql dbs
19:31
I mean, obviously everything distributed but the program paradigm was called "lets configure these existing programs and hope they play well together". One critical thing that was hard to get correct was automatic scaling. So, when I ran some websites we just had servers and now way to really easily bring up/down instances so this was't an issue.
why does microservices get automatic scaling?
Two reasons, foremost you wrote them to scale, secondly the microservices (paradigmatically) don't know about other microservices of the same type. The later means they can be launched, brought up as needed. There is some word for this but I forget it (immutable, or something).
im not sure i understand you at all
Without microservices you'd hope somebody made the underlying stack scalable. If the author of memcached didn't make it scalable you'd be screwed. Secondly, paradigmatic microservice workers are independent so that you can scale them up and down. This in part because microservices should have a really simple interface.
what do you mean by the underlying stack scalable?
what does it need to do?
19:37
Doing back to the nginx article, every one of those programs described by the classical hex design could scale because somebody wrote them to scale, or at least some part of them could scale.
what does it to need to do to scale?
distribute to other computing nodes/processes
But everything had its own ways of scaling that were application specific, which was no fun.
what is a node exactly?
what do you need to do to dsitribute?
Almost every item in that hex needs to run on multiple computers to facilitate many concurrent users. Your last question was somewhat low effort.
hmmm
are the threads for each user decided by the server os?
19:40
or processes, but you need to get it to run on multiple boxes
yes
but decided by the os and not the prgoramm normally
No, some dude needs to write in that functionality and then you need to configure it.
so you need to write some kind of operating system?
Anyways I need to get back to work. Some of the questions you asked are kinda dumb :-)
so you can run what?
@Mikhail i only know the language not how to build large scale systems
19:51
posted on January 11, 2021 by Herb Sutter

Assertions have been a foundational tool for writing understandable computer code since we could write computer code… far older than C’s assert() macro, they go back to at least John von Neumann and Herman Goldstine (1947) and Alan Turing (1949). [1,2] How well do we understand them… exactly? 1. What is an assertion, and what … Continue reading GotW #97 Solution: Assertions (Difficulty:&#

can anyone else point to how I can understand how backends work?
ive read things like introduction to microservices by sam newman
but im not sure i understand how are users actions are translation to a server at the servicing company
@Trajan That's a little difficult, because it covers anything and everything related to doing things on the web that happens on the server support whatever the system does. Since there are a lot of web sites doing different "stuff", there are a lot of back ends doing equally different stuff to support them.
ok, so lets say you have a program on one computer, that then hits the limit of what is handle concurrently
what happens next?
20:06
@Trajan You break the program up into pieces and distribute it across machines. Generally you want to break it into some coherent pieces such as persistent storage, computation, and actual web serving. Since each HTTP invocation is supposed to be reasonably independent, it's generally pretty trivial to scale up the web serving part. Run more, have something to deliver invocations to all the servers, and off they go.
deliver invocations? what is that?
@Trajan you make the program suck less
@Trajan Somebody on their web browser clicks a link. Something in the back end takes the data from those clicks, and splits them up among multiple web servers.
ok
but isnt that microservices?
i thought anything that anything that ran on a single machine was a monolith
anything more was microservices?
@Trajan No, we're getting to them.
@Trajan Not really. Or if that were true, monoliths have gone for a long time.
20:10
1) how does a monolith get loaded up on different machines?
The problem here is that (largely) "monolith" has come to mean "whatever the microservice guru you're reading at the moment doesn't like", so it doesn't really mean any one thing.
how do different parts of a monolith talk to each other?
if its rest apis then its microservices?
Traditionally, you had web servers talking more or less directly to database machines. You scaled up the database by running it on a cluster. You could scale up web servers by just running more of them, and distributing requests between them (and typically using something like memcached to minimize traffic to the server).
and what is the difference between the modern approach?
Oops--I need to make lunch for my kids. May be back later if I get some time.
20:15
@JerryCoffin thanks bye
AFAIK monolith means a single process that implements the web server, the database connection, and all the other stuff. The next step is service-oriented architecture: this means that some responsibilities are split off into their own process. And microservices is a more fine-grained version of that.
It's important to realize that this also affects the structure of the codebase. In a monolith project all code is contained in the same project. In a service-oriented solution each service is implemented as its own project, and possibly in its own version control repository. With microservices this separation is taken ever further.
seems like everything is microservices reall
y
Yeah, but please don't think that microservices are the best solution by default.
i dont see what else there is still lol
What do you mean?
20:23
like if you dont have bits of program on different servers talking to each other through rest apis
what else can you do?
for a large program
The alternative to having parts of a program communicate with each other through REST APIs is by implementing each part as a component that has its own API or interface. Then you can compose the larger program by combining these components.
Basically the REST API is replaced with function calls.
Direct function calls to other parts of the program.
Function calls are much faster than a REST API. They are also more easy to refactor since you IDE is likely to provide refactoring support for them.
I'm not saying REST is wrong. I'm just saying that creating a large program doesn't necessarily require a service-oriented architecture.
@Trajan Btw, I probably wasn't clear in my first reply. What I mean is that you can develop each component as a component that is linked into your final binary (or .exe) file.
@Mikhail Monolith has a pretty narrow meaning: it means "a single block of stone". Which means it's very strong, but very inflexible. Under large stress all it will eventually do is shatter
That definition applies to stone, not programming.
20:41
@StackedCrooked ie one lump?
@sehe Oh humbug, any stone attached to a surface is part of the bigger earth.
Also C++ needs a way to force a class to be pure virtual without requiring explicitly adding virtual methods. And if thats somehow covered under the Concepts TS, then C++ needs a way to convince compiler authors to implement that TS, preferably by going back in time and adding it to GCC 9 (without requiring fancy compiler options).
@StackedCrooked The problem is that by that definition, at least for web-oriented stuff, there's almost never been an actual monolith. Even extremely early web sites were typically done as a something like the actual web server invoking perl via CGI (or similar).
21:03
@Mikhail What's the goal? Prevent instantiation? Just make the ctor protected
What I have read about microservices is that the best route to them is to first write a monolith, and then refactor bits of it into separate services as necessary.
My personal experience with writing microservices from the get-go is that it is a disaster. But YMMV.
@sehe do you still do live coding streams anywhere?
nope
I'm really sad that all your old ones were lost.
Stuff happens. I'm over it by now :)
I only found out today 😂
21:13
Oh god. Untimely. I bet you read the para in my SO bio then
Yup.
I might have been bitter at the time I wrote that
I was looking into some boost::asio stuff and realized the answer I was reading was from you. Clicked on your profile and saw it.
Well, the level of bitterness I detected seemed pretty reasonable given the circumstances 😆
Ah. Cheers :)
Did y'all see that Discord finally got inline replies? Now we just need them in Slack.
22:07
@caps That's pretty cool. At the rate they're going, by only 2025 (or so) they're going to catch up with what the chat on Plato terminals could do circa 1980... :-)
@JerryCoffin 😂
22:31
@caps In fairness, they are dealing with a little more challenging environment. The Plato terminals all connected to a single computer (though in fairness, its speed was closer to an Arduino than to a RasPi).
@JerryCoffin I'm curious what features you see as missing at this point. Replies seemed like the main one to me.
To be entirely honest, my memory of the Plato terminals is distant enough that I'd probably just about need to find some ancient documentation to be sure. Given how long it's been, it could easily be mostly my memory playing tricks on me.
They seemed drastically more impressive at the time, but part of that was undoubtedly the contrast with other systems of the time. It doesn't take all that much to look really impressive compared to an IBM mainframe where you submit jobs in JCL.
UIUC FTW: PLATO was designed and built by the University of Illinois and functioned for four decades
user7659542
23:02
So this is litterally the first time that I work at a company where the clients asks me 3 times per day how things are going
user7659542
micro management at its finest
Charge them more, guy's sound desperate
Alternatively maybe they are being nice and you're just autistic? "Q:How's your first day going? A: Fuck off"
user7659542
worst is that the guy who keeps asking to me is not even my boss. He just acts as if he is the boss. He has been working there for 5 years
user7659542
@Mikhail impossible.
"Q: Hope you found everything, let me know if you need anything? A: Fuck off" :-)
user7659542
23:04
@Mikhail no I for instance told them I d need 1 day to configure a continuous integration server for them. They don t have this and barely know what this entails
user7659542
They have asked me 4 times how things are going
user7659542
every time I sigh they ask the question as well
user7659542
I tend to reply somethin ike "yes, I m still busy. It s only been an hour. Didn t you ask this already 30 minutes ago hehe?"
user7659542
@Mikhail I am an asshole, but not to that extent
You're probably correct, by version of events is much funnier :-)
user7659542
23:07
I don t really know how I should tell them that from now on I d like to charge them more because they are pissing me off
user7659542
we have an evaluation every 6 months or so
user7659542
I should talk about it at that moment somehow
user7659542
not sure how to apprehend this
Don't read too much into the first few days. Other tricks include setting yourself away on slack.
user7659542
It s been 2 months
23:09
"you're not getting shit done, are you sure you know what you're doing ?"
ugg, its too easy to make fun of you
user7659542
@Mikhail we don t talk via slack or so. We all sit together in the same office
Get covid
user7659542
@Mikhail I wake up at 5h15 and have a 2h30-3h commute. Such ridiculous stuff is the last thing I need
Will save you 3h of commute?
Also I think you met some lady that can give it you. It's like a more heterosexual version of bug chasing. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugchasing
We're still fully remote.
user7659542
@Mikhail Hmm, yhea she told me that she spoke about me to her parents and mentionned that she d love to travel with me to Barcelone or so
user7659542
23:11
I just laughed and acted as if I didn t hear what she just said
brutal
user7659542
nah
user7659542
I am a very nice guy. Girls just like to play games. I am not falling for that one
Admittedly, I had to break up with a girl because she lived in Boston and was not a microscope. Kinda sad.
user7659542
She s the type of girl who has loads of followers and quite some attention from men. She also works with only men. So I m deffinitely not falling for this that easily
user7659542
23:13
@Mikhail I have some kinky ideas for you. Microscope... something... girl.... mikhail
user7659542
OK, let me download that new serie "industry"
Guy comes back from work, watches TV about work
user7659542
it is apparently about some folks working long hours under a lot of pressure at hedge funds
user7659542
@Mikhail hahahah :)
user7659542
Yhea
23:15
try practicing a sport such as quidditch or competitive eating
user7659542
Today I arrived home very early: 7pm. I sort of finished my paper for university an hour ago and handed it in. So I deserved some me-time where I watch a movie/serie
user7659542
@Mikhail I prefer bedsport
user7659542
I find this very interesting that there seems to be such a different working ethic in hedge fund companies, compared to software companies or whatever
user7659542
I know some people who work at sort of hedge funds or some other similar big four
user7659542
and apparently they sometimes receive emails from their boss at 6pm asking them to do some work now asap and that it should be finished by the next day
user7659542
23:18
There pay is not even that good. Especially not for the number of hours they are forced to put it
You need to stop commuting so much to work. Also many people that work in hedge funds understand that a 3 hour commute would cost them about $400 dollars a day...
Except you can't turn that 3 hours into $400.
user7659542
@Mikhail im still very young. I m trying to build up a certain expertise. I’ve chosen to develop an expertise in an industry I like. Our country has only one place where there are companies in that industry. Unfortunately for me that place is very far away. My plan is to work 5 years in that industry and then move on to something else
work remote, or just relocate
user7659542
I didn’t see myself just do IoT stuff or anything similarly mundane
user7659542
23:27
@Mikhail fully remote is extremely difficult to find
start spreading COVID
user7659542
Relicating to the place where those companies are is a no-go, I hate that place
user7659542
I think that in +\- 2 years i ll go to snother company which specialises in cybersecurity. They have a whol embedded/hardware department
I guess you prefer living on a commuter train :-)
user7659542
If I mamage to pick up enough soils there, this could become a new service i could offer myself: cybersecurity for embedded devices
23:30
Working on a commuter train is fun as long as the train is a quiet carriage and not too crowded.
user7659542
I’ve noticed many companies care about that but have no expertise at all in that field
user7659542
@TelKitty which is my case
user7659542
I think the best way for me to maximise my chances of entering that company in 2 years is my starting to learn kali as well
user7659542
That way i can show them i already have solid basic skills and can hit the ground running
Cyber security should be a robot with guns, but somehow it's a nerd making fun of another nerd for a memory leak. Where did we go wrong?
user7659542
23:33
Based on what I’ve heard pentesters mostly use kali and just try to see wherher owasp’s top 10 security breeches work on a given product
What stops company that allows remote work moving their entire remote working team to a cheaper area in the long term? Is there a law for against doing that?
user7659542
“It s hard to make money off your passion, unless your passion is money”
user7659542
Hehe
I have a cousin, whose current ambition is to make a not so busy living out of having a high end restaurant. I don't see how that could work out - in order to make $ in a business, you need to cater people, not having people cater your need.
Thats dumb. What if your passion is helping people? Become a doctor, make tons of money.
23:45
I mean, it is still possible to make money off your passion, but it's incredibly hard - you have to be extremely talented and have a financial sense about how to make a profit out of that talent.
Here, in order to become a medical doctor, you need to be at uni for at least 7-8 years, plus a training year. After that you still need to go through years of training and learning to become a specialist. Sydney house price double every 7-10 years. Current house price is 1 million, so go figure.

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