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2:02 AM
Does anyone know how to read mail.log on ubuntu?
 
2:58 AM
There is surprisingly limited amount of information on the internet on how to read mail.log
 
 
3 hours later…
user7659542
6:00 AM
@Mikhail 65usd, is that a common price in your area in the us? Where I live senior engineers ought to bill 600e-650e per day. Which is why I am surprised your billing such a "low" amount. And the figure I mentionned is in the field of embedded, which typically pays less than roles for cpp guys
 
user7659542
let alone those consultants working on oracla databases, saas, .net and c#. Making 1k+ per day in that field as aconsultant is not unheard of
 
6:52 AM
Well the $65 is more than my employees were paid, but those were really interns and children. $120k a year (about $65 an hour) was common but I don't have a good feel for senior developer pricing.
 
user1804599
7:17 AM
@Morwenn Should’ve gone for a C++-section. Much safer.
 
@rightfold With a rusty scalpel
$120k a year sounds like something I'll never ever reach in my life lol
 
Never say never, given enough times, egg will cost more than $5 each (because of inflation). Then you will get $120k+ a year easy.
 
I should move my CI to GitHub CI
 
I am addicted to DIY upgrading my macbook. I have already replaced the battery, upgraded the SSD. Now I have eyes on a better motherboard.
 
I like what Travis CI has allowed me to do so far, but it's got too many random issues
 
7:37 AM
With enough knowledge, I reckon one can spend $2500 on components and build a $5000 equivalent macbook.
 
8:20 AM
Meh, my server is out of memory because I am doing something wrong.
 
8:34 AM
Managed to produce a 25GB log file within like 20 minutes with a grep command.
 
9:11 AM
Umm..high everyone..learning C++ after python..and it seems language has many not-so-obvious peculiarities ^^"..is there "precautions" list or something?
 
Read about the rule of zero
 
9:27 AM
@Deep There are dozens of lists and hundreds of guidelines, but just mentioning some like that is a bit difficult
Typically you'd find someone to review some code you wrote and they could mention you guidelines to improve it
But it's kind of hard to give generic advice out of the blue :p
 
generic advise is more a Java thing, in C++ we usually have templates for problems
 
user1804599
9:48 AM
If you comes from Python then you should already be used to arbitrary design decisions and terrible pitfalls.
 
haha...yes I can see we have templates for problems..but I thought about a list of something like X objX; is good but X objX(); is not or auto specifies type of lambda not return type of lambda..
@rightfold umm..IDK what causes you to see that because apart from the thing that mutable objects are ..well 'mutated' if you do something on them in a function and that variable names are just references to the actual object, I didn't find any thing which is not apparently obvious. C++ is hell...array decomposes to pointers when you pass them, then there are references instead of pointers, then all every 'new' must meet 'delete' rule...not whining..just saying it is..less pretty.
 
nwp
You're just doing it wrong.
Remove new and C arrays from your codebase and things start looking better.
@Deep Maybe the core guidelines are what you're looking for.
 
10:04 AM
Yes I remember that it's an old thing, but book suggests me that it's good to build 'fundamentals' with basics..and as I'm just starting I was giving it a try
Is there almost no need to use new now?
For e.g., I'm learning by implementing a doubly linked list rn, every list item is called node, in a function which adds new node, I have this
`Node* n = new Node(e, head, head->prev);`
 
nwp
There is placement new that still has a niche use. And sometimes you do need to implement your own data structure. But those are rare.
 
Also Qt
 
nwp
Well, Qt is Qt-C++ which follows different rules.
 
in my above example, shall I change it to
Node(e, head, head-> prev) n; ?
 
nwp
I don't know why they torture newbies with implementing linked lists. It's not useful and you don't learn much.
@Deep Basically no. And smart pointers don't help you either. You have to do it the ancient C way. Or use std::list and be done with it.
 
10:08 AM
Plus Qt takes ownership of your widgets and handles the deallocation itself, so it's clearly a different set of rules
 
haha..@nwp yes actually I'm an EE, just joined masters in Data Science and first course would require me it to learn it so I'm trying... but I've been programming websites and small games before...I never came across those lists..I mean it's already implemented well enough.
But I think they want me to learn it because that's what CS students do anyways
 
nwp
Linked lists are a tool to teach you about pointers. It's probably not a bad teaching tool, but it's useless for software development.
 
Oh..okay..then I'd keep using pointers
 
Linked lists are also interesting from a CS point of view
 
For software development we usually replace array with vector right?
 
nwp
10:11 AM
You do the task to understand pointers and never use them that way ever again.
 
But it's true that you hardly ever need them, unless you need strong iterator invalidation guarantees
Yeah, vectors all the way
Unless you hit a problem where you need a better tool for the situation, it's almost always a sane default
 
nwp
@Deep Not really. You use what you need. They are different data types with different properties and usually the question of whether the size is known at compile time answers which one you use.
 
oh ok @Morwenn...ty
@nwp ok I understand that
 
So my dream to replace the nonlocal keyword in python with a way to get access to the calling scope was met with disgust and open derision
count = 0
def callback():
    nonlocal.count=nonlocal.count+1
 
Just force users to pass locals() to your function, or whatever it's called x)
 
10:14 AM
But my solution is elegant
screw you all
count = 0
def callback():
   nonlocal count
   count = count + 1
dumb
 
Oh..so we can tell others screw all here..otherwise it's always mods who are screwing question askers'
 
Also why no +=
 
on main SE
 
Don't force me to check that the variable name on the left and right sides of assignment is the same x)
 
count = 0
def callback():
    ++nonlocal.count
Fixed
 
nwp
10:22 AM
count = 0
callback = lambda: nonlocal.count++
 
shall I always provide deconstructor for class B if B is a child of class A which has protected virtual function?
 
nwp
You should use the rule of 5 or 0.
 
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
 
nwp
But that sounds like a no.
Also why are you messing with inheritance? Are you going through all the things you are not supposed to do in order?
 
also its called a destructor
 
10:23 AM
It's so complicated
 
nwp
Which is why people don't use it unless they have to.
Usually you don't have to.
 
see...
 
nwp
I don't remember the last time I used inheritance. I think it was like 5 years ago when I thought implementing std::function would be a good idea.
 
I'm just trying to learn ..just in case
is it not much necessary?
I thought using inheritance is good way lol
 
nwp
It tends to lead to inflexible code, bad performance and it's complicated. Usually there is a better way.
Private inheritance is ok. Public inheritance tends to be a mess.
But it depends on the domain. If you make a GUI framework then having your widgets have a common base makes sense.
 
10:28 AM
I was having LinkedList class which has a child SinglyLinkedList class..just because I wanted to have parent lol
and now I can't access protected virtual member functions of parent...now I'd have to see what I didn't learn
 
nwp
@Deep That's not useful. And the problem you might subconsciously have tried to solve, the problem of giving algorithms different containers, is implemented using templates instead of inheritance.
 
@nwp oh...yes I see. I read about templates but they carry good amount of notational burden so didn't practice
BTW C++ is only language I know which uses <> lol
 
nwp
"Explain the difference between []{}(); and [](){};"
 
I just noticed that this room's name too uses <>
 
nwp
@Deep Not a good choice. Skip inheritance, learn about templates.
 
10:33 AM
@Deep Java, C#, Typescript all use that notation too
 
nwp
(You'll still have to learn about inheritance at some point)
 
to be fair they "learned it from daddy", but still
 
umm..[] is index operator, {} marks scope, lists array and list initialization (tell me if it has general name) and () are for parameters, arguments and setting order of execution...did I miss anything important?
@nwp alright, I'd finish this thing and then practice with templates..
@PeterT ahh..alright..never used it in Java, haven't learned other two..just a student right now that with from non-CS background
@nwp oh I misunderstood your question lol xD
 
nwp
Yeah, it was supposed to be a statement.
 
[](){} is for lambda declaration?
 
nwp
10:38 AM
I don't know, you probably missed things, but questions of the form "List all the things where () appears" isn't very useful.
@Deep Yup
 
@nwp haha..I too never expected such a question..
 
nwp
And it was mostly a joke about your comment on using <> due to crazy syntax. It wasn't a serious question.
 
haha...what is []{}() anyways
 
it's [](){} , that's am empty lambda :P
 
nwp
[]{} is a lambda (The () are optional) and the () at the end calls the lambda.
 
10:40 AM
I love Python you know
 
oh, right you can ommit the parameter list, I always forget
because it's in my muscle memory to always type [](){}
 
Currently I'm just reading and coding..seems like I'd have to keep a notebook...
 
nwp
I used to like Python, but then messed with TypeScript and I don't see the need to go back to Python anymore. Besides being forced to use it for work.
 
Libraries could be one reason maybe
 
nwp
The lack of type annotations is really holding Python back to be a much better language. And the type annotations they have seem lacking. Or maybe they fixed that now.
 
10:42 AM
@nwp truuu, sometimes I wonder in secret if I'd rather write PHP than Pyhton, it's that bad
 
@nwp have you tried Python 3?
 
nwp
Yes, though some time ago, before they added type annotations.
I feel really lost in Python code. You don't see what anything is and you don't get any help from tools.
 
@PeterT you can't be serious...
 
nwp
And complaining about Python tooling when C++ is kinda famous for bad tools is something.
Except the toolings are in different areas.
 
tbh, I expect it to improve...I too was surprised when I read that only fully functional IDE for Python is PyCharm..
but personally..I love that while in loop I don't have to tell it that my i is an integer
or name is a string
but yes..with complex objects of other classes..it'd be messy when it's hard to name them such that they reveal their type..
 
nwp
10:48 AM
You only love that when you have 20 lines of code. When you have 1000 lines of code you're happy to know that name is not a pointer.
 
yes haha..I can understand that
writing long descriptive names could be a option though
an*
 
nwp
It's a bad option because programmers have to check those long descriptive (type) names which takes much longer than when a compiler does it.
 
btw...what is correct way of saying...I'm always confused between these words 'object', 'class' and 'instance'
In `Dog tom;`
Dog is a class, tom is an object of class Dog
is this correct way to say? I'm not native English speaker
 
nwp
That seems correct to me, though I'd use "type" instead of "class", but yours is not wrong.
 
okay so object of type Dog or instance of class Dog would be two correct usages?
 
nwp
10:54 AM
Sure. Though if you're at a school your teacher might have defined other meanings.
 
Okay!
Ty!
 
nwp
11:29 AM
That sounds like fun.
I hope the EU will flex and require store competition. Maybe Apple will get removed from the EU market for some time.
 
Dunno, I know the US courts hate when people pull stunts like this
at the same time it's a real issue
 
nwp
I wouldn't expect US courts to make a move against Apple and Google, but that's purely from propaganda.
 
eh... the US courts have been less than enthused with them too
 
well the best solution would then be to make Apple allow 3rd party stores and still have Epic Games being banned for breaking the policy.
 
11:57 AM
Apps are a losing game. If you aim big, go for something else. Something on the leading edge. Of course that carries gigantic amount of risks.
 
 
2 hours later…
user1804599
1:47 PM
Ban protection against rooting and don’t allow changes in software to void warranty.
 
nwp
2:08 PM
Damn anti-wealth communists all of you.
 
 
5 hours later…
user1804599
6:48 PM
Capitalism with a healthy dose of social democracy and business practice limiting legislation has been working quite well for a couple of decades. Can’t say the same thing about communism.
 
Communism with a healthy dose of social democracy and business practices has been working quite well for a couple of decades :-P
 
user1804599
Has it?
 
 
user7659542
7:25 PM
What does a quality engineer actually do?
 
user7659542
After so many years this is still unclear to me. And it looks like even they themselves don't know what they are doing or why thet got hired.
 
user7659542
(in the software industry)
 
Mainly software testing, so you might be responsible for automating the validation tests.
 
user7659542
@Mikhail former is a test engineer, latter is a devops (engineer)
 
user7659542
so, still not a quality engineer
 
7:37 PM
Well postings for quality engineers usually include the thing they are supposed to ensure the quality of. A lot of times validation testing is really hard and involves interaction with physical hardware - so its definitely not dev ops.
 
user7659542
validation testing is done by a V&V team (validation and verification) composed of test engineers, not quality engineers.
 
user7659542
see that job is just a total mess. It s an illusion.
 
Well quality engineering isn't limited to software. I have a friend that worked as a quality engineer at a biomedical regent manufacture and his job is to ensure that the chemicals come out correct.
 
user7659542
There is no such thing as a quality engineer.
 
user7659542
@Mikhail I just care about software. And in the software industry I don't see why such a role exists as it is already fulfilled by other roles
 
7:40 PM
Quality engineer is a pretty clear. Somebody gives you money to ensure their product has validation tests and passes them.
 
user7659542
@Mikhail that's the exact descirption of a test engineer.
 
user7659542
they verify and validate via testing
 
7:53 PM
So, I think in many cases the tests have certain formal ISO like requirements. But ultimately, the job descriptions are often very clear.
 
user7659542
I recently learned a very nice concept: "exit interview"
 
Did you recently get fired?
 
user7659542
I m fed up with this company, you know it, I know it. I gave my resiliation a month ago. But you still want to speak with me on my last day (aka exit interview)
 
user7659542
LOL
 
user7659542
@Mikhail Technically speaking nobody can fire me.
 
7:58 PM
Oh I guess we're both enemployed
 
user7659542
@Mikhail No we re not
 
user7659542
:p
 
user7659542
I still work
 
fuck you
 
user7659542
haha
 
user7659542
7:58 PM
I just explained my perception on exit interviews
 
user7659542
I find it amusing and a bit ironic
 
user7659542
There are many words which fit that same "amusing" list
 
user7659542
like: hate sex
 
user7659542
This being said as a contractor/freelancer we are the first people who are asked to leave once the ship starts sinking...
 
user7659542
So hold your horses, I might be unemployed sooner/quicker than you
 
8:01 PM
I'm already unemployed so I win
 
user7659542
@Mikhail I ll give you that one, champ
 
user7659542
@Mikhail btw any reply for the lead algorithm engineering role?
 
No, but some replies for financial companies that want me to refactor C++ remotely
 
user7659542
@Mikhail where are they based? East/west coast? If yes, that's $$$$
 
Might be that the PhD was a complete waste-o-time
East coast but its remote work and they will pay my LLC
 
user7659542
8:07 PM
@Mikhail LLC?
 
user7659542
Limited liability company
 
user7659542
or Local life cost? (or smth like that...)
 
company
 
user7659542
@Mikhail oh well, so that's quite good. Right?
 
user7659542
@Mikhail if you had fun it s deffinitely not a waste of time. I spent some time in academia and I do not regret it a single moment
 
8:08 PM
The LLC lets you get paid marginally more because you're not giving yourself benifits.
I did not have fun.
 
user7659542
@Mikhail why did you get into academia in that case? You probably kinda knew how it would be in advance
 
user7659542
Something must have attracted you into that
 
I had a misunderstanding, I thought everybody sucked and I would do better. So I did better than everybody else but I realized they sucked because the system was broken. So for years I'd tolerate it up knowing that with the degree I could either become a professor or find some really cool job. But I can't become a professor because I broke up with my advisor on hard terms (and he is increasingly paranoid, hates me), and I can't seem to find any of the cool jobs.
I actually had a really good track record but the jealously I got from PhD advisor ultimately ended my career. If I was like most people and was more lazy I'd still have an academic career...
 
user7659542
S fcked up mate
 
user7659542
Don't know what to tell you besides the fact that I am 100% there is a job out there for you which fits what you want and where'd they accept you.
 
user7659542
8:14 PM
But sometimes to get what you want you have to get out of your way, so maybe you ll find such a job in another state and may have to move or smth
 
Yeah, although I can't quite find the right job. Two weeks ago I was about the sign a CTO contract.
 
user7659542
But I m pretty sure you re not lacking skills to land the type of job you want
 
user7659542
@Mikhail you sent me a picture a while ago of 2 perfect openings
 
Yeah no responses.
 
user7659542
you applied to them afaik. It was smth like "prinicpal algorithm engineer" and another one
 
user7659542
8:16 PM
@Mikhail well, see you can find one. Just haven't landed one yet.
 
user7659542
@Mikhail CTO, to do what at what type of company?
 
user7659542
Sounds great!
 
Except the day before I was supposed to sign the contract they pulled it.
 
user7659542
@Mikhail how can you get fired from a cto role if you havent even signed anything?
 
user7659542
Oh... How come they pulled it in?
 
8:17 PM
So, my PhD advisor was the CEO. A minor petition made him look slightly bad in front of his department so he got somewhat furious and pulled the job offer the day before I would sign it.
 
user7659542
Oh yhea ok those things are linked
 
Yeah, so the CTO role was for the company commercializing the stuff I came up with.
 
user7659542
start your own business and make it better than his? lol
 
user7659542
@Mikhail jezus christ son, that sucks...
 
user7659542
I ve been through quite some rough times in life too
 
user7659542
8:22 PM
And what I learned from this is that everytime one door closes at least one other opens
 
user7659542
just have to think carefully and look
 
9:10 PM
@traducerad It's an invariant of the door system: the number of open doors must always stay the same.
 
user7659542
@StackedCrooked haha, well noticed
 
user7659542
You still owe me unlimited beer on an evening. That door ain't gonna close though
 
Don't worry about that one :)
 

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