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04:00 - 20:0020:00 - 23:00

4:04 AM
Lemme C, a lot of people are going to contribute the lack of progress this year to COVID-19. But to be honest, most those cases, it's not COVID-19, it's themselves that lack self motivation.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:30 AM
@TelKitty attribute*
 
Oops, I am near horses and cows at the moment, I am not saying my mistake is caused by those farm animals, albeit, lots of them around, but you know ... :x
</shameless_blame_sharing>
 
 
2 hours later…
8:50 AM
@Mgetz I'm in a highrise, hardly noticed anything other than the storm itself. Was too busy to bother watching the lightning. If anything the looting woke me up in the middle of the night. (Not the looting itself, but the traffic+honking of everyone getting to/from the mag-mile area passing through my area.)
 
9:14 AM
Spent all day trying to wire up a wacky neural network architecture and it works like shit. While predicting the performance of neural networks architectures a priori seems impossible, its certainly possible to get better at wiring them with time. Anybody up to anything cool?
 
user7659542
9:39 AM
What happens on a PCIexpress bus when you have two totally different devices with the same address?
 
user7659542
does thta work?
 
"What happens on a PCIexpress bus stays on the PCI bus" :D
 
user7659542
mkay
 
9:55 AM
Can that even happen? I'm pretty sure BARs are unique.
 
user7659542
@Mikhail well on some older buses (eg ISA) the devices which are plugged in
 
user7659542
have their own address. If you re out of luck, you may have two devices with the same address
 
user7659542
so I m wondering how people delt witth this in the past on older buses and now on PCI(e)
 
10:08 AM
The good news is that every memory and I/O address region offered by the interface board can be remapped by means of configuration transactions. That is, the firmware initializes PCI hardware at system boot, mapping each region to a different address to avoid collisions.[2]
As I understand it, it is indeed possible to clobber the PCIe mapping space, in which case I would assume the last mapped device would get the data...
 
 
1 hour later…
11:14 AM
@traducerad IIRC devices say "I need this much memory" to the PCI-e controller and the bios allocates regions. But it's all negotiated.
ISA was a 'dumb' bus. IIRC even PCI was negotiated
 
user7659542
@Mgetz How did they avoid collisions in that case?
 
user7659542
if it is dumb
 
@traducerad BIOS, the user could remap the slots
the device didn't know nor care
to an extent that's still true. from a bus perspective PCI-e devices are still identified to the OS by topology
 
user7659542
@Mgetz not entirely clear. If you only have 1 bus on which you have 10 devices. The CPU is only connected on that bus via its own sole slot. How could it differentiate two devices?
 
@traducerad so for PCI-e that's not actually the case
there are dedicated lines per lane
otherwise you need a PCI-e switch
most chipsets do that
 
user7659542
11:24 AM
I was refering to ISA not pcie here
 
user7659542
my bad
 
user7659542
to me it looks like your BIOS will not the issue here
 
Oh that... either you used DIP switches or you remapped it in BIOS
but that wasn't memory mapped IIRC
it was port IO
so the bigger contention was interrupt ids
 
user7659542
@Mgetz but how can you remap in BIOS if you only have 1 bus on which you have 10 devices? The CPU is only connected on that bus via its own sole slot.
 
user7659542
Your CPU has no way to differentiate all the other devices.
 
11:36 AM
@traducerad I'm not a historian of implementations but you just power each slot individually to see what they need
the bios can do that easily
 
user7659542
shady stuff those people did in the old days...
 
lol... old days
you've never heard of the 5700/XT reset bug
 
user7659542
nope
 
What do people think of the concept of making spectacles that mislead facial recognition systems?
 
user7659542
11:44 AM
Ooooh wendell!
 
user7659542
Clever guy! I like him
 
user7659542
@TelKitty not much of an entertainment. I d be bored after 5 minutes I guess.
 
It could be of some 'practical use' :x
 
 
1 hour later…
user7659542
1:07 PM
Am I the only one who hates simplistic/straightforware application software development?
 
user7659542
Reading requirements like "when the user presses that button we want this message to be sent and this other widget to become green"
 
user7659542
I rather do the more "technical" stuff where I have to delve into optimizations, OS customization/config, driver development and other similar stuff
 
nwp
Probably not, but I don't know why you hate that.
 
user7659542
I find it boring
 
user7659542
I like the "technical" aspect where I don't have to think about stuff like "oh wait, I forgot to disable this this button on the screen and now the user's screen turned yellow". I don't care about the user
 
user7659542
1:16 PM
I d rather think about stuff ilke "this module communicates at 10Mhz, what can I do to get 15Mhz?" Or "there are collisions on the PCI bus, what can I do to solve this?"
 
nwp
I find that hardware stuff much more annoying. It's thankless work. Also in my experience with such work there are no tools and hundreds of pages of manuals that either don't cover what you need to know or you can't find it.
 
You can just watch youtube instead. Most of popular hardware would be covered by at least a few youtube howto videos.
 
nwp
I don't think our hardware is popular or has youtube videos.
Oh, I'm wrong. But the video is completely useless.
 
user7659542
@nwp that's how I discovered my dream job: a job where you are given a chip, with no datasheet and have to figure out how it works. Jumping through all kind of hoops and hacking around.
 
user7659542
But don't know any company that does this in Europe
 
1:23 PM
Also make a hobby accumulating tools. Most DIY-ers have loads of tools, collected through years of doing various DIY tasks.
 
nwp
That sounds like a complete nightmare and a waste of time to me.
 
user7659542
@nwp An LED driver? And I thought you were working on some cutting edge stuff
 
user7659542
@nwp Looks fun to me
 
nwp
I don't know what gave you the impression of me doing anything relevant.
 
user7659542
@nwp don't know whether I am supposed to cry or laugh when reading this
 
nwp
1:25 PM
But no, it's not about the LEDs, it's about the M41T62 chip which is a clock with fucking BCD encoding making it unnecessarily difficult to get a simple timestamp out of.
 
user7659542
A job where you have to hack around and do this sort of things at low level. Sounds extremely interesting and a lot of fun
 
nwp
Sounds illegal and morally wrong to me.
 
user7659542
Maybe I should just move to CHina. Apparently this may be the only place where they do such things.
 
nwp
Also a waste of time. Just ask the manufacturer.
 
user7659542
1:30 PM
@nwp dunno
 
user7659542
@nwp so many people open products of their competitors
 
user7659542
Actually I haven't worked at a company yet which does not open a competitor's product to analyze it.
 
@traducerad The issue isn't that it doesn't happen in the US, or that it's not problematic in china. The issue is you can't do that to a direct competitor without risking serious patent and trade secret issues. In China it is ostensibly illegal, but they don't care insofar as the company being attacked is not chinese.
they will actively steal mask for ICs etc.
they'd much rather do that then actually look at die photos
 
user7659542
@Mgetz lol
 
user7659542
I heard that they open the ICs and analyze how the electrons flow in order to replicate them sometimes
 
1:39 PM
why reverse engineer when you can just 'bribe' or extort the designer?
Verilog is sooo much easier to read
 
user7659542
@Mgetz How much should I bribe you to get your code?
 
@traducerad maybe a few years ago, but not anymore. They've bribed enough Taiwanese talent they don't need to
 
user7659542
@Mgetz Why Taiwanese?
 
@traducerad TSMC
 
user7659542
Ah
 
1:41 PM
regardless if you want to get into painful hardware problems go work on OpenBSD or Linux
you'll get your fair share of "WTF is this device actually doing!?!"
 
Linux is open source, so you can pretty much tell what heck the device is doing. MacOS and Windows are like blackbox. It does not make hardware problem any easier if you really run into one.
@Mgetz If you steal it, you don't have to pay for the development. That's why some Chinese electronic goods are so cheap.
 
@TelKitty eh... most of those are actually legit items just rebranded in cheaper plastics
 
user7659542
@Mgetz you ll never guess what. I have considered it. During 'Rona's lockdown I applied for a job at redhat. They were the only ones offering flexible remote work.
 
user7659542
But I wasn't even considered. I filled their online form and received an e-mail a couple of weeks later saying "thx for applying, more luck next time. Feel free to try again."
 
user7659542
This would just be a dream:
 
user7659542
owning an electronics factory in China. Mass production and a cutting edge R&D department
 
user7659542
and a chick showing people around in my factory
 
user7659542
just kidding about the chick stuff. Nobody enters my factory except my employees and me.
 
now I imagine a chicken running in a factory pecking at electronics parts
 
Only if you could teach chickens to do all the factory work ...
Would have saved you a lot of labour cost :x
 
nwp
2:52 PM
Why the fuck does copy/pasting a Word file change the original file's timestamp?
 
 
1 hour later…
4:02 PM
@nwp there is a reason, Raymond Chen mentioned it once in blog. But I don't remember why.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:29 PM
So, I'm trying to figure out how to make a Linux C++ build server with a newer gcc than the one provided by the package manager.
-1
Q: How to install a new version GCC and make it the default?

StackedCrookedI built and installed a new version of gcc on my Linux (Ubuntu) machine and installed it in /opt/gcc-10.2.0. Then I used update-alternatives to make this the default gcc/g++. It works, however, programs built with the new gcc still link to the old libstdc++ in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu and not th...

Someone -1'd my question. Now other people will think it's a shitty question before even reading it.
Damn you downvoter.
 
@StackedCrooked make a container?
or a snap?
 
I do plan to make it a container.
 
or ask matt godbolt?
 
Compiler Explorer requires you to explicitly choose which compiler you want to use. That allows the backend to change the compiler command. However, I want to configure my system so that the command g++ main.cpp uses my custom installed gcc version (and have it link with that gcc's libstdc++)
update-alternatives solves the first half of the problem.
But not the libstdc++ part.
I believe that I can't solve this problem. And that I'll have to specify CXX, LD_LIBRARY_PATH etc as part of the build process.
But anyway, please upvote the question so it's no longer -1 :)
 
user7659542
5:48 PM
@StackedCrooked hold my beer, I ll go downvote it as well.
 
I'll spit in your beer.
:P
 
user7659542
please, no. I don't want your 'rona virus.
 
Then better upvote that question :)
 
user7659542
if I don't do anything, I will not give you my beer and you will not be able to spit in it.
 
user7659542
This would take less effort.
 
5:53 PM
Damn you logic.
 
user7659542
Shh Bby Is Ok
 
user7659542
what do I get now?
 
user7659542
I m keeping my beer.
 
drinks your beer
 
5:58 PM
@traducerad If I ever meet you I'll pay for all beers that day.
 
user7659542
@Morwenn proceeds to eat your omelette au fromage
 
user7659542
@StackedCrooked You realize I live very close to you? Right...?
 
@traducerad joke's on you, I'm a vegan
 
user7659542
Much closer than you think...
 
user7659542
@Morwenn it was a vegan omelette au fromage
 
user7659542
5:59 PM
vegan chicken and vegan cow
 
user7659542
and vegan farmer who made the fromage
 
Just use fauxmage, it should be enough for an omelette
 
@traducerad According to Google maps, Munich is ~800 km away.
 
user7659542
2 mins ago, by traducerad
Much closer than you think...
 
@Morwenn you are?
Didn't even know that.
 
6:01 PM
@StackedCrooked no
 
Ah :)
 
user7659542
@StackedCrooked I am
 
user7659542
since we started this conversation
 
user7659542
5 minutes ago
 
6:02 PM
I'm not even a vegetarian
 
user7659542
flexitarian
 
Even though a fair share of what I eat is actually vegetarian, and the occasional meal is vegan
Let's say that I'm almost vegetarian at home
 
I'm a vegetarian when not eating meat.
 
user7659542
I m a vegatarian except for salami
 
user7659542
just kiddin, my niece said that when she was 5-6. Never forgot it since then.
 
6:10 PM
:D
 
I hardly ever buy meat for home, and I tend not to eat lunch when I work at the office
 
user7659542
@Morwenn why don't you eat at the office?
 
user7659542
You need to eat, to be strong, to write solid and robust code.
 
@traducerad because I'm not surrounded by food, so I've got no incentive to
 
@Morwenn is there a dedicated lunch room in your company where people come together to eat lunch?
 
6:11 PM
Also if I eat an actual meal for lunch I become unable to work to to dizziness for up to 3h
 
user7659542
@StackedCrooked oh good... don't speak about it
 
@Morwenn you should get allergy tested
 
@Morwenn I know that all too well :)
 
because that shouldn't happen
 
@StackedCrooked There's a self-service restaurant
 
user7659542
6:12 PM
I hate it when everybody eats together. You want to leave the group, when everybody is still seated and talking. There is some sort of social pressure in such a situation.
 
@Mgetz It's linked to the quantity of food
If I snack it's not an issue
 
user7659542
proof: when one guy says "well, I m going back to work", suddenly everybody stands and leaves too
 
@Morwenn weird... I'd still suggest getting tested
 
@Morwenn You mean like a buffet?
 
user7659542
this proves many people don't feel comfortable leaving the table due to that pressure
 
6:13 PM
Also eating lunch hasn't been among my habits for years, so my body isn't ready to cope with digestion x)
@StackedCrooked Like when you've got the choice between a variety of starters, main meals and desserts and compose as you wish
 
user7659542
@Morwenn you should start step by step. Start by eating some grass.
 
user7659542
smth light, you know
 
@Mgetz I really don't think I've got allergies to food
 
@Morwenn I see. So it's a big company then?
 
I don't digest the like of onions, but it doesn't make me sleepy
 
6:14 PM
@Morwenn I've heard about the importance of having breakfast. Never heard about the importance of lunch. So yeah, just skip it.
 
@Morwenn food allergies are actually stupid common
 
@traducerad I actually like eating together with colleagues, it's eating lunch so early in the day that I don't like x)
 
@Mgetz you're this medical guy, right? (working on cancer simulations and stuff?)
 
@StackedCrooked I don't know how many of us work there
 
@StackedCrooked no that's @Mikhail
I'm enterprise software
 
6:15 PM
@Morwenn So it must be a big company then :)
@Mgetz Oh, right.
@Mgetz Can you be more specific? :)
 
@Mgetz I know, both my brother and sister have intolerance to random ingredients
 
user7659542
@Morwenn I don't even like it when people tell me "enjoy your meal"
 
@StackedCrooked no
 
user7659542
I actually hate it. I love eating. So when eat I want to be alone and nobody disturbing me with stupid social conventions.
 
@StackedCrooked It used to be 5k employees before the fusion, but I don't know how many employees work where I do
 
user7659542
6:17 PM
You don't even care whether I enjoy my meal or not. So, leave me alone and don't say that to me. Let me enjoy my meal on my own.
 
@Morwenn Wow, I never even worked for such a big company.
 
@StackedCrooked It's only my client: now that my company has been bought by another one we're 250k
 
user7659542
It's like when colleagues say: "Hello, how are you today?" whilst walking to their desk and you reply "hi, fine and you?" but they dont say anything back
 
idk I like small talk during lunch time
 
user7659542
leave me the f alone! If you don't even bother answering "fine" back to my question, don't bother asking how I am
 
user7659542
6:19 PM
Because I know you don't care
 
When I was still working at my company's local agency I used to share a table with the other ones for lunch, I just didn't eat
I actually went to eat with my new colleagues the first day not because I wanted to eat but because I wanted to socialize
Then I dozed off in front of my computer an hour later
 
@Morwenn We usually eat a sandwich at work. Would that be fine? Or would that also put you to sleep?
 
@StackedCrooked I occasionally eat one, but I'm also fine with not eating so I often don't bother
 
I see.
 
tbh yesterday I also started dozing off despite not having eaten anything, but that's less common
Today my mother proposed I eat with her, so we had a small yet rather complete salad, and I was fine after that
 
6:24 PM
I wish siestas were a thing in all countries.
 
It's just big quantities of food (or what most people consider normal for lunch) that invariably make me sleepy
 
Lol, what's a "small yet rather complete salad"?
You mean like Caesar salad?
 
Salad leaves, melon, tomato, Parma ham, parmesan - in a small bowl
 
sounds good tbh
@Morwenn also vinaigrette?
 
probably some light oil or sauce
oh wait, I probably didn't add mine to the salad, it was already wet and tasty enough
 
user7659542
7:14 PM
Why has the social game regarding "management" changed nowadays?
 
user7659542
Many decades ago when our grandparents were working at factories, the boss was highly respected and authoritarian.
 
user7659542
Nowadays, your boss comes to the office wearing jeans and behaving like a camarade.
 
user7659542
Asking stupid questions like "how was your day yesterday? your kids, bla bla bla". But nevertheless he stays your boss and gives you orders.
 
user7659542
Such a hypocritical social game IMO
 
Your gripe doesn't explain what game they are playing
 
7:28 PM
@traducerad cough bullshit cough sorry I'm allergic to bullshit
 
user7659542
management style has changed through time. Many decades ago (I m not speaking about the 80s, but much earlier). You had an entire floorplant with people working behind their machine and an elevated office where the boss could oversee everything
 
user7659542
and he was much more authoritarian
 
user7659542
Nowadays your boss behaves much more like a friend and you have to play the game and act as if he is your friend
 
@traducerad unions, back then you could treat people like crap and they couldn't do anything
 
user7659542
@Mgetz does not invalidate my point
 
7:32 PM
I guess my point is that isn't a good thing to idealize?
nothing has really changed
just they pretend more
 
user7659542
@Mgetz exactly
 
user7659542
there you have it, they pretend.
 
user7659542
This is this entire fcking hypocritical game
 
user7659542
Your boss pretends to be your friend
 
user7659542
yet, behind your back he may treat you like crap
 
user7659542
7:33 PM
or even believe his own bullshit
 
user7659542
 
Sounds like you fell for a common meme.
 
user7659542
@Mikhail No.
 
user7659542
I did not!
 
Interestingly the problems you describe also happen with friends. What if the dude really is your friend, but just a bad friend :-P
 
user7659542
7:35 PM
I can give you a very nice example, but you have to speak French to understand it
 
user7659542
In the 50s when you spoke to your boss you had to use the pronoun "vous", which shows respect towards him. Bosses also used that word towards employees, to in some sense keep distant. "vous" also sounds very cold, because you use it for people you do not know.
 
user7659542
Nowadays people use "tu" as a pronoun. Your boss may say you, as if he was your friend. "He Pierre, tu peux lire ce document stp?" Which is very informal, as it -again- he was your friend
 
user7659542
And whenever you say "vous" nowadays to your boss, he might say "no please say 'tu' to me, we don't use 'vous' here"
 
I like being able to say "tu" to everyone without a second thought
 
user7659542
I hate it. I want to say "vous" to everybody except freinds and relatives
 
7:39 PM
You're a humbug
 
user7659542
I hate saying "tu" to a boss
 
I want to say "tu" to everybody and kill singular "vous"
 
user7659542
@Mikhail I didn't understand what you meant there
 
Actually that's wrong: I don't care all that much as long as it's symmetrical
 
user7659542
@Morwenn no, to me it is also a show of respect towards other people around me. It shows I respect people. And at the same time shows them we are not friends.
 
user7659542
7:41 PM
Which is perfectly what I want and is fine to me.
 
If somebody says tu in Spanish we're cool if its in French its over.
 
user7659542
"tu" is just for friends.
 
I hate that there's a separation for a fucking word
That's why I like English way more in this regard
 
♫ Just the tu of us ♫
 
You still adapt language to who you're taking to but you don't have to arbitrarily between "tu" and "vous" when unsure
The world is not made of "friends" and "not friends", there's a whole damn spectrum of how you interact with people and friendship traits manifest
My grandmother uses "vous" for her close friends and only ever uses "tu" for the family
 
user7659542
7:43 PM
@Morwenn I find this perfectly fine. It shows clearly our relation and how we perceive each other. However I absolutely hate it when I say "vous" to people and they reply with "tu". I find this extremely disrespectful. I am respecting you by saying "vous", yet you don't care and just say "tu"
 
@traducerad My previous point: the asymmetry is the issue
 
user7659542
yes
 
If the other one uses "tu" you can be sure I'll immediately switch to "tu" too
To me "vous" is arbitrary distance, not respect
 
user7659542
What if you don't know each other and he says "tu"?
 
user7659542
eg a shopkeeper
 
7:44 PM
I answer with "tu"
Happens plenty in bars
 
user7659542
fck that. I am a customer, there should be some respect at least.
 
Especially since I still look youngish
 
user7659542
When I was younger I worked at many bars, for many years and always said "vous"
 
To me "tu" or "vous" is not how respect manifests, it's abitrary
They can still shit on you while using "vous" and be respectful while using "tu"
 
user7659542
@Morwenn we disagree there. tu/vous is a first sign of respect
 
7:46 PM
nah, it's arbitrary
and people like you make it bigger than it should be :p
it's a sign of distance
 
user7659542
@Morwenn well, like it or not. That sort of things does really make me like or dislike someone very quickly. It's not everything, but it does play quite a role
 
I'm playing in a metal band and when we meet random technicians, other musicians, etc. it's always always "tu", using "vous" would be foreign for that scene
It's cultural, contextual, and doesn't translate well at all depending on where you are
 
user7659542
Shops where people speak french is a perfect example to me.
 
user7659542
If you said "tu" to me, there are quite a lot of chances I might never go back to your shop if I have an alternative.
 
tbh I don't really care either whether people call me he, she or they
 
user7659542
7:49 PM
@Morwenn we re entering another kind of debate here
 
pronouns and their perceptions all the way v0v
I respect people who respect me, but tu/vous is rather orthogonal to this in my values
 
user7659542
All in all youngsters have not that much respect and tu/vous is a first sign that confirms this imo
 
user7659542
Eg: do you think that in saine st denis youngster ever pronounce "vous" in any case?
 
On the other hand youngsters aren't really respected either
No matter they don't show respect
 
user7659542
No because they typically don t care about politeness and respect
 
user7659542
7:51 PM
@Morwenn How so?
 
@traducerad Look at all the articles we've had about millenials or gen z, etc. + plus they're constantly being told that "back then we weren't all the time behind our screens, we weren't slacking, we knew how to put in effort, we listened to actual music", etc.
It's often infantilizing and infuriating tbh
I still get some of that despite being almost 30
"ok boomer" wasn't born from vacuum
 
Yeah. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm sure the boomer generation must have been criticized massively by their elders: wtf anti-conception, rock music, ...?
 
yup
And yet a lot of them reproduce the same patterns
And one of my greatest fears is to fall into that too someday
 
If you're a conservative, then yes.
Otherwise no.
So basically: no.
:)
 
Depends, people are often more conservative than they think
Just look at the 25yo shitting on the tastes of the 18yo
 
7:59 PM
Yeah, or how people condemned ebooks.
lol
 
That's a good example
 
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