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2:46 AM
Almost thought this was a mocking email, then I remembered that I was too insignificant for that @_@
 
 
3 hours later…
5:33 AM
When other see danger, I sight opportunities. Because of the Australian bushfires, there is a chance to advance our solar farm, because of the Coronavirus, there is opportunity to overthrown Chinese communist party (or at least weaken them). So there was a lacking of presenter in the last A.I. in robotics meetup, I practiced my public presenting skills.
Opportunity is everywhere, the trick is to be able to see them and strengthen yourself enough so when there is a low hanging opportunity, you are able to catch it!
 
 
4 hours later…
nwp
9:58 AM
I wonder if the Q&A room will outlive the lounge. Would be kinda funny since the lounge declared the Q&A room doomed to fail upon creation.
 
Lounge would live as long as trolls like you are here to stay :x
 
nwp
What? When did I troll anyone?
 
I'd rate TelKitty at least at a factor of 50 higher on the troll scale than nwp :P
 
Trolls have unique power - the more elite they are the longer they can keep a dying room alive. It's like ... magic.
 
nwp
It's like you think trolling is the primary activity in chat rooms.
 
10:08 AM
what else would it be
 
nwp
Talking shit about C++. And meta drama. And ranting about why it just seems impossible to get debug symbols working on Ubuntu. Everything is broken.
-ggdb -fno-omit-frame-pointer -Og What more do you want from me?
 
oh, in that case, I was at a C++ meetup last week and had fun arguing with a real believer. He really though C++ was on a massive comeback and is about to take on the web as well with Wasm.
 
nwp
Sounds like fun. I don't know about a comeback, I didn't feel that C++ was ever dead, but I too think there is potential. I guess I'm a true believer too.
Though I've spent my free time doing basically JavaScript. It's fun too despite the issues.
 
sure there's potential. But believing C++ has some massive advantage over any other language and is not at all hampered by its complexity strikes me as somewhat naive
 
nwp
It does have a massive advantage in expressiveness. That's probably the main reason of its popularity. And sure that comes with hefty costs, but it's still a good niche to be in.
Though string interpolation is kinda nice. Too bad C++ is not expressive enough for that.
And too bad they don't make a delayed template instantiation / overload resolution mechanism. It would really help.
 
10:17 AM
True, but a lot of the expressiveness is patched on after the initial design. I could easily imagine a much simpler language with a lot more syntactically clean "constexpr and friends" mechanisms.
And compile-time constructs that is simpler to use than a lot of the template goop
I mean, sure there's a huge ecosystem for C++ and that is an advantage but if you look at all the web-stuff then C++ doesn't have some massive library headstart that no other language competes with
 
nwp
Sure. You can improve on every part of C++. It's having so many parts that somewhat work together that makes things tricky.
 
@PeterT You could imagine, or you could use D (for only one obvious possibility). But that loses a lot of the other advantages that C++ gains simply from having fairly substantial market share.
 
@nwp Yeah, especially when those parts that need to work together are in the language for legacy reasons with the X many initialization syntax constructs
 
@PeterT Most existing C++ libraries should compile to Wasm just as well as your own code.
 
nwp
Bjarne said at some point something about everyone wanting to make C++ a smaller more elegant language with just the good features and none of the cruft. The problem is that nobody can agree on what the good features are and what the cruft is because people use it differently.
 
10:24 AM
Well if C++ keeps on trucking, all the better for me, with all the hours I've spend with it. I just find it hard to imagine that this is the best we can do.
even in a "worse is better" kind of way
 
nwp
Of course it's not the best we can do. C++ in its current form will be killed, that's for sure. It's just not clear if Rust, D, C++23 or something else will be the C++ killer.
Currently it looks like the new standards are doing a good job of cannibalizing C++.
 
Yeah, I'm still having a hard time figuring out why contracts are a thing that needs to be in the language. I listened to John Lacos on a podcast and I still don't get it
they seem to be the kind of stuff other languages just offer as add-ons through some annotations or meta-programming
so figuring out those before adding something like contracts feels like a no-brainer
 
nwp
Contracts improve readability, expressiveness and error messages. And they are optional. Seems like a good feature to me, if you ignore the issues of them not being composable in their current form.
I'm sure they tried implementing it with just template stuff, but it was not possible or something.
Especially the part about better error messages seems to be something you just can't do with templates alone.
 
God no, I don't think adding templates would improve the situation with contracts. I just mean, the time they spend discussing those, they could spend adding the more robust reflection/metaprogramming stuff. But I guess that goes back to your quote with everyone prioritising different things
 
nwp
They have different groups discussing different things at the same time. I don't think stopping the work on contracts would benefit reflections.
 
10:33 AM
But yeah, I do get that some more structured assert-like functions are helpful, since the seem to have the most bang-for-your-buck in terms of dev-time versus bugs prevented
If I recall that microsoft study about assertions compared to other testing methods correctly
 
@nwp Depends, some people want to be involved in both and will blocks the process downstream when the realize that the feature they haven't worked on is "wrong"
 
nwp
Man I hate Qt Creator's mkspec system. Automatically adding -O2 -g to the end of your debug flags is not cool.
It also adds -Wall -W after my warning flags. Good job.
 
 
8 hours later…
6:36 PM
I just noticed that we got some more new tools in C++20 to play without pointer to data members
 
user6461957
My "herd-self" tells me to prepare for a potential pandemic due to the Corona virus spreading further...
 
user6461957
if (virus_is_in_europe()) panic(); else panic();
 
user6461957
Which just boils down to panic()
 
user6461957
People touching money, money flows globally...
 
Statistically I shouldn't be affected by the virus x)
 

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