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1:01 AM
Walking shark on land - may all your dreams come true :p
 
 
2 hours later…
2:59 AM
Especially if the linkage is easy and c style, you can just change the linking order?
 
 
9 hours later…
12:06 PM
So there is no town water on our rural property, so it sources its water from the rain. There are 4 gigantic water tanks/containers there.
The problem is that, in order to get the water fast enough from the taps, the system uses a pump that is powered by solar panels and spare energy generated by the solar panels is stored in a car battery.
It's a rather clever system.
 
sounds rather standard offgrid-ish to me
other than the lack of a well
 
Now here is the issue. Once we install a shower, there is no longer enough energy stored in a rather old battery.
 
time to buy new batteries then
or an actual water tower to provide pressure and a buffer and let the low power pump just keep it topped up
 
Problem doesn't stop there. How do you get hot shower without electricity or gas?
 
wood boiler
 
12:12 PM
...
 
or solar boiler but I know if that will get hot enough
 
We installed a DIY solar shower there using long garden pipes buried in sand.
But water gets too hot and there is no way to control water temperature :/
 
have a second pipe with fresh cool water than you can balance with
 
That seems to be a lot of work, but seems doable. Except if it's in winter when water doesn't get heat up enough.
 
wood boiler as backup
 
12:17 PM
I probably did not mention that there is only a portable shower, so ...
 
time to plane a proper bathroom then ;)
 
@ratchetfreak Also not all well gives you usable water. Some land doesn't have suitable water for daily use.
 
> rural property
 
Just like not all soil has PH value of 7.
 
Sounds quite different from rural properties here x)
 
12:20 PM
@Morwenn How?
 
I don't think there are many off-grid properties left at all here
Also you mentioned hot sand :')
 
~_~
It was used as a hobby farm before, and there is only a shed, no house on the land. :x
Not all rural property has house on them.
 
Oh, my bad x)
I've yet to own any land
 
Also you need a 4WD on a raining day or there is a chance that your car would not be able to get across the creek on the property. :x
 
ouch
 
12:26 PM
Owning land is a lot of work. A lot of hard work.
 
and can be expensive to properly build out
@TelKitty sounds like a bridge or a fill+culvert is needed for that
 
3 mins ago, by TelKitty
Owning land is a lot of work. A lot of hard work.
 
no, doing something with land is lots of work
 
Most of the problems there can be solved ... through a lot of hard work. Yes.
 
my grand-mother owns unused fields and never did any work there x)
 
12:30 PM
~_~
My bad. I mean, improving your piece of land is a lot of hard work. :x
 
It sure is
I'm thinking of buying a small house with a devent garden sometimes, but it's either super remote or super expensive
 
Also when I read 'unused fields' I think about all the $ you could have gotten through doing something on it, but did not get.
 
And even if you want something remote you've got to build a house if you don't want one which is super old and has tons of issues
It's two small fields in an area where you aren't allowed to build anything anymore
Last time I heard of them she lent them for almost nothing to a young guy who grows some fruits
I don't think she actually cares about making more money, especially less if it means effort x)
 
Grow fruit trees is also effort. We planted 3 small trees there, they were fine for the first month because we watered them almost every week. Then we were absent for 6 weeks. 2 trees withered from lacking of water.
 
Yes growing fruits is effort, my point is that she isn't the one doing that
 
12:40 PM
@TelKitty drip watering systems are your friend
 
I've got two apple trees in my garden that only require some cuts once every few years though, plus some rosemary and a bay tree that require next to no effort too (we cut the bay free once every few years too when it becomes too big)
Just live in Brittany and you won't ever have to water anything lol
 
@Morwenn true... but you only get sun for what... 3 days a year?
 
That's issue, especially here in Brest
Last week we had 5 days of non-shitty weather and that was the most in a row since the beginning of September
On the 8th of January we had an article in a local newspaper saying "so far we've had 11 minutes of sun this year"
 
@Mgetz I appreciated the suggestions loungers give me, there are simple solutions, that's hard to implement in real life.
 
Also choosing, buying, installing and maintaining a drip watering system is effort x)
 
12:44 PM
@TelKitty as a resident of "The Great American Desert" (the Colorado Plateau) I may have experience here
@Morwenn not if you go with the industrial stuff
you just need to buy a timer that you like
the rest is pretty much bog standard
 
Still effort to me compared to just plating your plants in the ground and letting them live their life as we do here
 
we don't have that luxury here....
 
Your fault for moving to places not meant to grow food a few centuries ago x)
 
not my fault it still outproduces literally the rest of the world...
that said we do get tornados
 
@Mgetz You probably did not read the previous conversation. There is no tap water, only rain water that's pumped by a car battery and powered by solar.
 
12:50 PM
A windpump is a type of windmill which is used for pumping water. Windpumps were used to pump water since at least the 9th century in what is now Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan. The use of wind pumps became widespread across the Muslim world and later spread to China and India. Windmills were later used extensively in Europe, particularly in the Netherlands and the East Anglia area of Great Britain, from the late Middle Ages onwards, to drain land for agricultural or building purposes. Simon Stevin's work in the waterstaet involved improvements to the sluices and spillways to control flooding...
 
Yes, if I had a million dollar to spare, everything would be so much easier. But no ...
 
> Most homeowners using a wind turbine as their primary source of electricity install between 5 to 15 kW of wind power capacity, meaning they can expect to pay between $15,000 and $75,000 for their small wind turbine project. These numbers do not include any federal or state incentives.
Not a million dollar but definitely not cheap :p
 
@Morwenn generally cheaper that using an old school pump too. Mostly because old school pumps waste water
 
Now I don't know how good groundwater might be in Telkitty's rural property, and IIRC water laws in Australia are a bit weird
 
$50k here, $100k there. Consider there is literally no infrastructure, it will add up quite quickly.
Water is not a problem, it's how to get water to the plants that is.
 
12:58 PM
@Morwenn eh.. can't be more brutal than here... they'd literally let cities die of thirst rather than abridge a water-right
to the point that most towns and cities make it a selling point that they have prior rights on the rivers
 
of course, letting everyone drink doesn't have immediate returns as profits
 
@Morwenn it's more complicated than that
 
Obviously it is
 
Water right in water law refers to the right of a user to use water from a water source, e.g., a river, stream, pond or source of groundwater. In areas with plentiful water and few users, such systems are generally not complicated or contentious. In other areas, especially arid areas where irrigation is practiced, such systems are often the source of conflict, both legal and physical. Some systems treat surface water and ground water in the same manner, while others use different principles for each. == Types of water right == Understanding ‘Water Rights’ first requires consideration of the context...
 
1:27 PM
I want to do agroforestry
Too bad we got rid of a bunch of such bocage in France
 
1:47 PM
@Morwenn i.e. big plant botany :P
 
hehe
 
 
2 hours later…
user7659542
4:10 PM
It just blows my mind. What type of company allows to put untested code on their master branch?
 
user7659542
Or code which is known to have unknown issues, which have unknown consequences
 
user7659542
?
 
small companies that have a primary product that is not software, but that need software
and for them it's probably called "trunk", not "master", hehe
 
I'm having internal compiler errors with g++, what should I do
 
user7659542
IMO the "trunk" -he he-, should always be the working version of your software
 
4:13 PM
I've had them on multiple projects but I've only managed to reliably replicate it on a closed source one unfortunately
 
user7659542
I would call it God. Not trunk.
 
user7659542
Give your working & tested code to God.
 
@Sophie make sure you're not running out of memory, try to simplify or split up the code in the file that get the ICE
 
4:38 PM
hmmm luckily it's file /usr/include/boost/geometry/index/detail/varray_detail.hpp line 207
 
why oh why did I already assume that it was template goop that caused the issue?
Well it's a header file, so I mean the file that includes that header
 
@traducerad Pretty much all of them.
 
user7659542
@Borgleader such people deserve a kick in the nuts
 
user7659542
that's just not how it should be done.
 
nwp
@traducerad It's a business decision. Is it likely that pushing the code now will produce more money than it costs? You don't need to have perfect code, you just need code that produces a net benefit. See all of Bethesda games.
 
5:09 PM
@traducerad lol
welcome to the real world
 
 
1 hour later…
6:25 PM
 
6:39 PM
@traducerad All of them, because patterns and practices are for people that go out of business
 
Haven't been here much since SE has gone to shit and my attention is elsewhere. But I'll be making announcement hopefully tonight.
 
@Mysticial see now I'm worried
 
It's a good announcement. Not one of those rage-quitting ones.
 
@Mysticial you found a way to fix all of intel's latent security issues!?
 
The firing of Shog is sorta what crossed the line for me as far as investment into this site. But that's a seperate thing.
 
nwp
6:42 PM
y-cruncher open-source confirmed.
2
 
lolno
 
@Mysticial I think for a lot of people honestly
 
7:36 PM
@Mysticial Still not sure if you mean announcing that you're quitting (positively) or simply announcing something unrelated.
 
unrelated
 
Ah. That's good to hear :)
 
@Mysticial join us on Discord :)
 
user7659542
8:37 PM
@Mgetz that's a very short minded vieuw. In the short run it costs more, but in the long run you win
 
user7659542
Less bugs, so less bug fixing time and then less costs (because time is money). Besides that not only will those costs be outweighted because you will have less bugs, but also your product will be more reliable, which is good for the enduser
 
user7659542
and for the devs. Because nobody likes to work in a mess.
 
8:54 PM
@traducerad tell that to the business, and they go turtle and never let you fix anything because 'risk'
 
user7659542
One of the reasons why I am personally 200% against such shenanigans is because for instance a couple of days ago another dev pushed smth he didn't test nor finish on the master. The teamleader was OK with him pushing that into the master. His things don't work and I now have to find out why everything is broken
 
user7659542
I am actually the main dev for that project in question. But he just came fcked smth up and now went back doing his own stuff
 
user7659542
Happened a couple of times so far.
 
user7659542
I know a couple of devs who would have left the company if they had such things happen to them
 
I think its a reasonable move as long as you get credit for fixing it.
 
user7659542
9:06 PM
@Mikhail credit, like a monthly wage?
 
user7659542
lol
 
user7659542
You won't get a 200usd bonus just because you fixed other people's mess
 
So if people really need the feature and they want somebody else to work on it. I routinely ask my interns to push, and then I spend a day fixing it. The important part is to make sure everybody understands the time commitment.
 
user7659542
How do you want people to understand this?
 
user7659542
What do you do to open their eyes?
 
user7659542
9:11 PM
First time this happened I spent almost 2 weeks trying to fix it. It was smth quite nasty. And litterally nobody cared, no apologies. Somebody else ended up fixing it. The only thing which was said is "yhea wd whould try not doing this anymore". Fast forward 2 weeks, it happens again.
 
user7659542
I was left alone in order to try to figure out where the issue lied
 
Well there is a clear hierarchy with me in on top. So i simply say my job role is to inspect all the code.
 
@traducerad I'm against it too
I was just explaining why that crap happens
 
You ssem to have a slightly differnet political problem.
 
@traducerad get permission to change his permissions on the repo?
nobody that doesn't have right should be merging to master
 
user7659542
9:13 PM
@Mikhail I am the only one who seems to care and who sometime gets angry when that stuff happens. I am, unlike you, not on top. So, besides explaining, what else is left to do? I cannot force anybody
 
user7659542
@Mgetz hahaha that means I would have to change my bosse's permissions to the repo hahah
 
user7659542
He is the one who merges unchecked crap sometimes
 
user7659542
Besides that management on the highest level starts complaining and putting pressure when things take more time (due to us following stricter rules). That's also why almost not a single line of code is documented.
 
@traducerad I'm fine without documentation insofar as the code is readable
but why is management dictating development standards?
 
user7659542
@Mgetz because its not a software company. They initially were doing something else and throughout time the sw department grew and they are trying to keep things as they always have been
 
9:19 PM
then get the heck out of SW
if you're not going to do it even half arsed don't bother
 
user7659542
@Mgetz approximately 800'000 lines of code with almost no documentation
 
@traducerad I've seen worse
and honestly documentation in my experience unless it's auto generated is 99.99% wrong
 
user7659542
Don't tell me folks at google (which I consider, maybe incorrectly, as the holly grail) work the same
 
@traducerad zero docs?
usually unless it's public code
@Mysticial would know better but generally internal code is written to be very readable
 
user7659542
@Mgetz yes. I presume at google, they write proper documentation, test and reviewing everything as it should be before pushing it into master. Code must also be understandable
 
user7659542
9:26 PM
Right here we are dealing with undocumented legacy code, which contains tons of stuff which doesn't make any sense technically. And nobody can explain it neither because all the authors fcked off
 
@traducerad then you're presuming wrong, most software companies don't focus on documentation. They focus on readable code, tests, and a good devops pipeline to catch bad crap before it gets even close to master
 
user7659542
we have none of both, lol
 
user7659542
People here consider consider the master as a development branch, ie a branch which is +/- allowed to contain untested/buggy code
 
user7659542
At least I learned a nice trick here: X-macros, never seen that before
 
@traducerad That's one possible flow... I favor feature branching
and that requires a good devops pipe
CI/CD etc
 
user7659542
9:31 PM
@Mgetz what requires a good devops pipe? Feature branching or the other one?
 
user7659542
IMO both require it
 
feature branching
it requires you have a system and metrics around how the code works that's fully automatic
e.g. the system blocks you from merging if things don't build
 
user7659542
issue with having having untested stuff on the master, is that you may keep on building on incorrect stuff. Stuff which actually just works by chance.
So for me feature branching is the only correct way to go
 
TIL for (static int i = 0;;) and for (typedef int i;;) are legal C++ but illegal C.
 
user7659542
One day that untested code will break and somebody will have to fix somebody else's code
 
9:34 PM
@traducerad or your system rejects the untested code as not meeting coverage requirements
 
@traducerad surprised-pikachu
 
@fredoverflow Would be a fun quiz where in each question you show 3 rare C++ things and the players need to guess which one is illegal.
There's plenty of stuff in C++ for such a quiz.
 
> I'll take screwy syntax for 500
 

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