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12:32 AM
1
Q: License violation

AbyxThe CC BY-CA 4.0 states Section 3 – License Conditions. Your exercise of the Licensed Rights is expressly made subject to the following conditions. a. Attribution. If You Share the Licensed Material (including in modified form), You must: A. [...] B. indi...

I'll just leave this here ^
 
cute
 
indeed
 
Wait, but doesn't the "edited" flag indicate it was edited?
 
@Mikhail it doesn't indicate that it was edited by a non-licensor
it would be perfect if there were two different icons
 
 
1 hour later…
2:12 AM
Also the completely insane reproduction mechanism of paramecium
Ciliates contain two types of nuclei: a micronucleus and a macronucleus. The micronucleus serves as the germ line nucleus but does not express its genes.
 
I still don't know what CoC or the whole license thing is. I am just furious because losing $5000-$10000 these 2-3 months due to my own strategic misjudgement.
It's not a big problem, but it's a 5k -10k I would rather have.
Also this low pay contractor I hired is of inferior quality.
Constantly trying to cram 12 hours worth of work load into 24 hours this December while everyone else seems to going on holidays.
Good percentage of the work load is caused by my own strategic mistakes and low quality people which is also part of my strategic mistake - why don't I stay away from those low quality people!!
With that said, must say our current tenants and A.I. in Robotic group members are all upright, not low quality people. At least fire is not burning in those areas. <3 Those two areas are worth happiness.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:21 AM
Time for field work, be back this evening for more paper work.
 
 
4 hours later…
8:43 AM
@Mikhail There's "starting a company" and "moving out", so consider me doubly not interested x)
@Mikhail Yeah, I never really used meta-programming for work: just a bit but only when the other solutions are way too much of a PITA otherwise people just don't understand
 
9:11 AM
@Morwenn What if its a machine to make children?
 
How would it change my stance?
 
Its a pretty cool thing to work on
Like then we garnish the kids wages by like 10% as a charge for being born
 
lol
 
Its actually an interesting idea, because IVF services, and especially surrogacy are not usually covered by insurance.
Although its not legal because you can't enter into a contract without consent, or rather you can't have a contact without having a choice.
 
9:49 AM
I mean, projects can be interesting I've got no plans to move out
I've had so many proposals far away from here already I don't even remember all of them .___.
 
Sad, okay, can you give me $120,000?
 
nope
 
If you don't have dollars I will also accept francs
 
10:12 AM
I'm not living in Switzerland or in any country accepting franc CFA :p
 
 
2 hours later…
12:06 PM
Lemme blind your precious eyes with newbie listing of my 1st airbnb property. Let's see whether I can lure someone into booking this, it's listed pretty much at 50% price of other similar independent houses in this suburb. I have already indicated that I am nu with hosting so do expect some inferior services.
It's only available for the next 8 weeks. Still kind of prefer long term tenants.
Currently 51 views, no booking, no enquiry.
 
1:07 PM
Maybe I should visit the rural property this week or the next, now the bushfire is within 5km from it.
I might be able to take some wonderful pictures at night. I love to live dangerously.
 
You'll probably love Mexico suburbs then x)
 
According to rural fire services website, the closest fire field is about 5032 hectares large. That's 5,0320,000 square meters.
@Morwenn I love nature, so I prefer nature risks.
Like ocean waves, fire, avalanche etc.
 
Don't worry, you can now enjoy plastic with all of those
 
 
2 hours later…
3:14 PM
Is coroutines in C++20 officially now? I thought it was a TR.
 
It's been in C++20 for two meetings now
And attempts to change them or pull them out at the last meeting have pretty much all been rejected
 
Wow. That means C++20 is big: concepts, modules and coroutines.
 
It is
 
nwp
It's pretty redundant since modules solve all problems.
 
Just look at the list of features: en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/compiler_support
 
Hehe
Time for you to step in and solve this world's issues
 
@Morwenn IIRC there are some concerning unpatchable defects but they don't seem interested in fixing them
derp you're the one that told me that
 
lol
yeah, actually the author now seems confident that there might be a way
not an elegant one, but still a way
 
halp I need some means of doing indirect replies
 
basically in the distant future there would be two different ways to to write coroutines, but for coroutine consumers it wouldn't change anything from an API point of view
 
3:27 PM
@Morwenn why am I not surprised
 
Hey, at least we won't have co2_await x)
 
aww I was waiting for co8_await
 
The co2 will kill us first
 
just say the one I wrote out loud
I am easily amused
 
I don't get it
 
nwp
3:35 PM
"8" and "await" rhyme. That's the best I could figure out.
> If list contains too few values, the result is undefined, but the program will still be well-behaved.
It's been a while since I've seen this gem in the Qt documentation.
 
lol
 
 
1 hour later…
4:53 PM
@nwp the way I read it, if you have to few values, the result is undefined and you have been warned and it's not our fault if the program crashes
 
5:46 PM
@Mgetz CO8 sounds dangerous. Would almost have to be an extremely powerful oxidizer.
 
@JerryCoffin Can't imagine it would be worse than FOOF
also CO8 would be technically impossible
 
@Mgetz With 8 oxygen's bound to one carbon? If you could (somehow) manage to do that in the first place, getting half a dozen of those oxygen atoms to come unbound from the carbon would happen really easily. The real question would be what form it would take. Part of what makes ClF3 and FOOF so dangerous is that (at reasonably normal temperatures) they're both liquid, so they're extremely dense compared to a gas. I can't guess what form CO8 would have at room temp. if it existed.
 
@JerryCoffin well you couldn't have them bound to the carbon, it only has a tetravalent outer shell. At best you could do an oxygen chain on each site
but oxygen REALLY likes double bonds
apparently they got as far as C06 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_hexoxide
 
6:03 PM
Well technically CO8 could be possible if you can create 2 loops of 04 connected to 1C
 
Yeah but I can't see that forming because oxygen will get too grabby
the polar issue will probably cause it to collapse
 
I guess it would be too unstable
 
well nothing above CO2 is stable
 
I guess so, the only way you could force it, would be to put exactly 8 atom of 0 and 1 atom of C in a vacuum or something similar
or even that wouldn't work
 
@Mgetz According to the article, CO6 is stable (below 60 Kelvins).
 
6:07 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Oxygen would almost instantly bond to itself and you'd probably end up with one CO2
 
yeah
CO2 + 3O2
 
@JerryCoffin not sure If I'd call that stable or almost frozen
 
@Mgetz Hmm...now that's an idea. Cure schizophrenia by freezing somebody's brain.
@Mgetz More seriously, I think the answer to that is: "both".
 
@JerryCoffin well you've cured them... but of more than just their difficulties, also of life
 
@Mgetz Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a 100 % fatality rate...
 
6:12 PM
@JerryCoffin Di-hydrogen-monoxide... 100% of those who are exposed die
 
 
Guys, I started to monitor a few of our servers at work, at first it felt like a good idea, now I'm wondering if I was better off being blind or to actually see how bad the server are running
 
6:31 PM
@Mgetz Maybe. I believe I'm immortal. This seems to be correct so far.
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Probably better to remain blind. Now you can think of the fact that your servers probably run better than most, and realize what a miracle it is that this chat (for only one example) actually works at all.
 
@JerryCoffin Is that a typo? I suspect you meant to say "immoral"?
 
@Mikhail Surely you mean "immoral".
 
@Mikhail Not at all. I believe I'm immortal. I know I'm immoral.
 
Is that like Inflammable?
Fuck it keeps correcting the spelling
 
@Mikhail No, it appear to be quite durable. I've been both immortal and immoral for as long as I can remember.
May help that I have a crappy memory though...
 
6:47 PM
Also you can probably cure several mental disorders by freezing as a form of lobotomy.
 
@JerryCoffin unfortunately I cannot unsee nor forget what I saw
 
@Mikhail I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy (old, but still a great line).
 
7:04 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Times like these call for brain bleach. youtube.com/watch?v=_Z5GEZtLMzk
 
7:15 PM
Oh, I guess I should have noted: definitely NSFW.
 
7:32 PM
The question remains, how come you know this video that has only 836 views?
 
@StackedCrooked Because it's NSFW?
 
7:51 PM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix what you expected efficient optimized servers?
I've run into my fair share of servers that run at 5% constantly because the code doesn't scale
 
have i bored you all in c++ q&A?
 
8:09 PM
it is possible we don't have an answer because we aren't the person who wrote the code
 
8:41 PM
@Mysticial someone needs to fire writers at LTT, they seem to think ARM is lower power because it's RISC
 
lol
 
they don't seem to have ever heard of leakage current
or the fact that most x86 processors are closer to five or six processors if you look at the way ports work
 
VIA/Centaur's new chip details released today.
Supports AVX512 through Cannon Lake. I actually knew that since August of last year. (Their chip architects told me at HotChips.) But I couldn't say a thing about it.
I didn't expect it to be 256-bit wide SIMD units.
 
@Mysticial you expected 128?
 
@Mgetz yeah
 
8:54 PM
Via wasn't ever going to do 512
@Mysticial would not be surprised in the least if the base implementation was identical to intel's. Just to put pressure on AMD to license
so the MS SQ1 processor looks to be a customized snapdragon... which is just stock ARM cores because why do your own microarchitecture /eyeroll
 
Looks like the VNNI AVX512 didn't make it in.
 
VNNI?
 
The Cascade Lake instructions.
The VIA chip architect said (in August 2018) they had it implemented. But they weren't sure if the implementation would match Intel's. So they kept the CPUID bits off. They were also taping out at around the same time.
 
@StackedCrooked Don't. Just did a search on Google, and that was the first one it showed.
 
@Mysticial so they might be there... but if you use them it's at your own risk?
 
9:03 PM
@Mysticial Unfortunately, I don't have enough spare time to view and know all the NSFW content available. Now that I think of it, that's an interesting question: could anybody do so, or is more than 24 hours or porn filmed in an average day? My guess is the latter, so even if you did nothing else, you couldn't view porn as fast as it's made.
@Mgetz Simple rule of thumb: anytime anybody attributes much of anything to "RISC", chances are they're full of crap.
@Mysticial Seems to me like that's asking the wrong question. The meaningful question isn't whether they match Intel, but whether using it gives better performance than not using it.
 
@JerryCoffin AFAIK most chip designers these days go RISC because it makes implementing a compiler easier
 
@Mgetz I think it's usually because they were taught using books by Hennesy and Patterson, and have never given significant consideration to doing anything else.
 
@JerryCoffin RISC Zealots? Because there are significant advantages to CISC in some cases
 
9:19 PM
@Mgetz I don't think most are zealots, exactly. I think for most of them, considering the possibility of CISC being superior would be a little like a 2 year-old American child considering that Mandarin might be a better language that English in some ways. To the extent they've learned anything about CISC at all, it's purely as a foil for arguments about how RISC is better (and more often than not, an example so extreme it's pretty much, if not actually, a true straw man).
"Imagine a processor in which every instruction was encoded uniquely. Now consider how much better it would be if we designed a simple, regular scheme for encoding instructions instead. That's RISC."
 
@JerryCoffin I find this hilarious because there was recently research showing that insofar as you do CISC well the pipelining benefits outweigh the complexity
is x86 a bit absurd... yes it is. But it shouldn't be held up as an architectural example of 'clean'
Imagine for a sec a 'clean' x86-64 implementation, no compatibility mode, no compat only instructions. In theory you could cut the binary implementation down quite a bit to something sane
of course we can't do that because of backwards compat
 
@Mgetz Of course, not. Even Intel wouldn't claim such a thing. x86 is the result of hacking on one backward compatible extension after another for 40 years or so. RISC designs haven't aged a whole lot better--just most of them haven't been around nearly as long.
 
@JerryCoffin oh god what... Thumb, the JVM direct instruction runner etc?
 
@Mgetz The problem is that the big advantage of RISC is mostly the simple instruction encoding. The problem with that is that the simple encoding also means instruction streams are less dense--the same program is bigger (typically about twice as big). So, to get similar performance, you need twice as big of a cache. When instruction decoders were big and caches tiny, that made sense. Nowadays, instruction decoders are ~1% of a CPU, and cache around 80%, so RISC is optimizing the wrong thing.
 
@JerryCoffin also pipelining generally needs to be deeper and you better pray your branch predictor works or just give up and use prefetch instructions. Your IPC is hard to keep up because comparative to CISC you'd need to run at something like 7/7/7 instead of the 4/4/4 that intel does last I checked
 
9:31 PM
@Mgetz Not to mention SIMD instructions, which (almost by nature) end up lots of instructions, each of which tends to be fairly complex.
 
and I can't see that playing well with interrupts
lol ARM runs at 10/10/10
which is a bit Yikes!
 
@Mgetz This is another place RISC got things kind of wrong. They basically just rather blindly assumed that more registers was always better. Up to a point that was true--but once you get past that point, saving and restoring registers (for either interrupts or task switches) starts to add significant overhead. So Itanium (for an obvious example) does decently for pure computation, but sucks air as soon as you add interrupts and multitasking to the mix.
 
@JerryCoffin the wider your dispatch the more interrupts are going to suck to restart from unless you keep a separate register bank for kernel mode (I think x86 does this to an extent)
 
Sun's stack-oriented register use at least saved them a bit, but (also having 256 registers) they put a huge amount of work into keeping register save/restore from killing them (and still never entirely succeeded).
@Mgetz ...and ARM definitely does (or, at least some implementations do--but I think probably all of them do).
 
@JerryCoffin eh... still has to basically do a full pipeline flush based on what I'm seeing
 
9:38 PM
@Mgetz Probably. But at least it doesn't have to save/restore all the registers every time.
 
@JerryCoffin still... losing decode on that deep in the pipe is uuugly, particularly if it means you have to restart 10 instructions back
X86 reminds me of the sneaky old timer that is constantly doing things behind your back.
 
@Mgetz Oh yeah. Interestingly, years ago this went the opposite direction. Pentium IV's (Northwoods, and especially Prescotts) suffered from it horribly, so a 3 GHz P4 was around the same speed as a 1 GHz SPARC. But the tables have turned...
 
@JerryCoffin well the theory, and the sims, said that Netburst wasn't a problem because you'd just crank the clock speed. So they hard optimized on that both for marketing and allegedly performance reasons. The issue was that leakage current is a thing and is unavoidable... Prescott fixed some of the issues but Northwood was deliberately locked down to limit so it wouldn't catch fire
also that limiting didn't always help
 
@Mgetz Prescott fixed a few issues, but added so many more that improvement was minimal at best. From what I recall of testing at the time, a 3.2 GHz Prescott was usually slower than a 2.8 GHz Northwood (and yes, burned a whole lot more power).
 
So the issue with having a ton of registers isn't the silicon, but rather the need save them on interrupts? IOW, asking to expose all the physical registers and eliminating renaming isn't actually feasible?
I have plenty of workloads that can utilize 100+ explicitly addressable registers.
 
9:48 PM
@Mysticial depends on how it's implemented, that many registers creates other headaches for the ISA too. It's usually easier to use register renaming even if it's partially exposed.
 
Exposing all the physical registers and eliminating renaming has another problem. You can't add more registers in the future when the silicon becomes more capable.
 
yep
 
@Mysticial I'm not sure it's the only issue, but it definitely is an issue, anyway. You could certainly have more explicitly addressable registers than x86 does though. Quite a few designs use 32 or 64 registers without a significant problem.
 
@JerryCoffin and from what I've seen compilers still max out at 15ish
 
@Mgetz MSVC finally does 32 registers for AVX512.
 
9:50 PM
you'll get a few high traffic registers and the rest will largely go unused
@Mysticial but does it... really?
 
@Mgetz Yes. It will use all 32 if the code really needs it.
It's sub-optimal with which ones it uses if you don't need all 32. (i.e. it still uses caller-save registers first.) But it will use more than 16.
 
I guess my point is that in the vast majority of cases, most code doesn't need more than 15 locals based on what I've seen. Moreover quite a few registers get lopped off for ABI reasons
 
@Mgetz I haven't looked carefully (recently), but that wouldn't surprise me. When you get down to it, I think a lot of that is limits on how much a programmer can keep track of at once. Even using 15 probably involves merging what were written as multiple functions together more often than not.
 
Pretty much, so a fast branch mechanism with shadow registers probably matters more than actual count in many cases
 
@Mgetz Then there's the other side of the coin: L1 cache is usually fast enough that the penalty when/if you do spill is fairly minimal anyway.
 
9:55 PM
@JerryCoffin if you have enough... which I believe was a point you made above
 
Which reminds me, when is the Mill CPU ever coming out? :P
 
@Mgetz Sort of--that was more about I$, where this is more about D$, but still, even a small cache is equivalent to a lot of registers.
 
10:11 PM
@JerryCoffin Sorry, I didn't mean implementation. But rather the behavior of the instruction. As in VIA implemented it using only Intel's official documentation. They didn't have any Intel hardware to double-check. So any errors or ambiguities in the Intel documentation could've led to mismatches between Intel's instruction and VIA's instruction.
 
@Borgleader I think they're probably running into the same problems that have plagued VLIW for decades. It's (fairly) easy to design a CPU that can theoretically do a lot in parallel. Then you try to write a compiler that can actually take advantage of that. Then you spend as much as you can afford on compiler development. Then you declare bankruptcy. Don't get me wrong: every iteration of this cycle compilers get a little better, and we get a little closer to it actually working.
Eventually it probably will work--but I'm not sure Mill is going to be the the time it comes out ahead. Or breaks even, for that matter.
 
@JerryCoffin I snuck a peek at their forums, their mid tier processor is getting the same as their top tier right now in sims and they haven't even taped silicon
so they are working on fixing that before they ask for more money
 
@Mysticial Oh, I see. In that case I can understand not wanting to claim it works.
 
@Mgetz Do we have any clue how that compares to real world CPUs?
(and by that I mean, ones you can buy at the store)
 
@Borgleader no because it's apples to oranges, and they made that point when the posted
comparing directly is hard because somethings count as instructions and somethings don't
CISC will always have lower IPC than RISC, but can be faster because the APC is higher
 
10:16 PM
@Mgetz IOW, they aren't make (good) use of all resources the CPU makes available.
 
@JerryCoffin I think so? They're also focused on getting kernel up and written and C and C++ compilers
so it sounds very all over the place
 
@Mgetz In fairness to them, that's pretty typical around this stage of development even for fairly conventional processors.
 
@JerryCoffin I'm still wondering what market segment they are targeting?
 
@Mgetz From what I recall them saying a few years ago, they gave kind of a non-answer, saying they're interested in niches that aren't served well by the big vendors, so they were doing tooling that would let them plug in specs and quickly/cheaply get a design for a specific niche (and repeat as needed).
 
@JerryCoffin ok... but what segments are those? ARM has mobile covered, Intel and AMD desktop and datacenter. Embedded controllers are increasingly moving ARM because of the volume of chips on the market last I checked... so aside from mainframe which is dominated by Z and whatever fujitsu has... I must be missing something?
I mean MOS is still a thing too
 
10:26 PM
@Mgetz Like I said, it struck me as a non-answer. Maybe they have some specific targets in mind, and just don't want to tip their hand ahead of time. But (having been involved in some things before) it kind of strikes me as a quite possibly a solution in search of a problem.
 
@JerryCoffin yeah, the thing that strikes me is that the people that don't like ARM are going RISC V and there are already a ton of tools and tape outs for that
maybe they are going after the bitcoin market?
dunno
 
@Mgetz And not just tools. It's sufficiently conventional that porting something like Linux or BSD (or Windows, if it ever gets enough market share to justify doing so) to it will be fairly straightforward.
 
@JerryCoffin Linux and BSD are allegedly done. MS allegedly has a research kernel already ported
 
@Mgetz Could be--but at least to me, it seems doubtful that it can even come close to competing with GPUs for that.
 
they moved into ASICs AFAIK
 
10:36 PM
@Mgetz Ah. I hadn't kept track of things, but I probably should have expected it. If anything, that emphasizes the basic point I was trying to make though. It's an easy target, so making lots of conventional code run well on it is a simple re-compile.
@Mgetz Some have, others haven't. ASICs are (or should be) more efficient when they're designed, but GPUs have enough larger (and more dependable) market that they get updated even when Bitcoin prices are low.
 
Bitcoin like all crypto currency is a scam... so W/e
 
@Mgetz Here's the secret: nearly everything that's true of crypto currency...is equally true of other currency. Crypto currency has value to exactly the degree that others trust it enough to give you something valuable in return for it. And the same is true with other currencies, up to an definitely including Euros and US dollars. The only fundamental difference is how many people put how much trust into one vs. the other.
 
@JerryCoffin The difference is who holds the majority of any currency. Right now for crypto it's almost always the people that came up with it. Bitcoin was invented to evade money laundering and sanctions
nobody holds over 50% of the dollar
 
@Mgetz I hold 50% of a dollar. Does that count?
 
@Mysticial no but you can turn it in a a bank for the whole thing?
 
10:43 PM
@Mgetz Which drastically (and quite rightly) improves the degree of trust you have in the currency. But it's still a matter of how much trust you put in it.
 
Oh shit Odo died
@JerryCoffin of course, does putting your trust in yellow barter rocks have any more value?
or perhaps you prefer silver barter rocks
they're shiny!
 
@Mgetz A little. Gold, platinum and silver all have intrinsic value to at least some degree. Gold is highly malleable and nearly immune to corrosion. Platinum is extremely useful as a catalyst. Silver has the lowest electrical resistance of any element. They all have commercial uses so even if they were as common as iron or aluminium or copper, they'd have at least a fair amount of value (as iron, aluminium and copper do). US dollars have no intrinsic value (and likewise Euros, etc.)
 
@JerryCoffin and yet if you rely on them you'll be forced into a boom bust cycle based on the inability of the economy to expand past the availability of the shiny rocks. Unless of course you lie and create promissory notes for shiny rocks
 
Don't get me wrong: the value of gold or platinum is based largely on its rarity, so you'd lose a lot of the value if they became drastically more common. But at least you wouldn't lose it all.
 
@JerryCoffin true, but if I don't have any to use for barter is it any good for me?
or if my employer can't get enough to pay me with
 
10:50 PM
@Mgetz The boom/bust cycle wasn't based so much on relying on the shiny rocks themselves. It was much more a result of having a predetermined price ($100/troy ounce for a long time).
 
@JerryCoffin well when your currency is hard tied to a mass of it... that's going to happen.
not to mention things like shaving currency etc
either way I'm out for the evening, later
 
@Mgetz That meant (among other things) that when the economy grew, prices went up and you couldn't afford to mine it any more (until the bust happened, and you had lots of people willing work for lower wages).
@Mgetz Have a fine evening!
 

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