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1:03 AM
yeah but kinda suck if buying a new cpu will require buying a new motherboard
kinda defeat the purpose
still compared to the cpu, the motherboards are very cheap
 
@Mysticial y not
 
@Borgleader Because I'm playing Pokemon.
Told myself that I'd only play a few hours and the rest on the toilet or on the plane.
Didn't happen because this time it's on a TV.
Whereas in the old games, there's a limit to how much I can take on a tiny handheld screen.
 
So your CPU buying habits are mutually exclusive so pokemon games coming out?
 
@Borgleader They are. They're on different "budgets". But my gaming budget is for negligible for all practical purposes.
Or rather, the amount I spend on gaming is negligible.
Granted, $500 after tax for the Switch + Sword/Shield 2-pack isn't exactly negligible. But it's rare enough that it's still zero for all practical purposes in the long run.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:25 AM
Do new pokemon games bring something cooler ? For some reason, pokemon is still probably one of my favorite rpg but I find the story to be rather quick to get through
 
2:50 AM
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Since it's for the Switch this time, it's basically a regular Pokemon game, but on a console.
So TV instead of a tiny handheld.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:51 AM
Subject:  	Important updates about the California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA)
Not sure why I am receiving this, don't see much relevance.
 
5:05 AM
@Mysticial It constantly amazes me how many people seem to believe $5/day is not just less, but a lot less than $500/year.
 
5:34 AM
And the Switch is almost certainly gonna last more than 1 year. Unless something happens to it.
It's a nice system. I didn't realize how neat it was until I got it Friday.
I'll probably get a 2nd pair of Joy-Cons in the near future.
They're really expensive though.
 
6:38 AM
@Mysticial I'd certainly expect it to. But even at one year, the cost per day is so low it hardly matters any more.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:07 AM
Word on the street is that there is only 10 hours of play time.
 
9:05 AM
And then it's back to work time?
 
nwp
Then it's time for shiny hunting. Keep going until you have all 400 shinies to 100% the game.
(that takes a bit longer than 10 hours though)
 
9:48 AM
So, I got this binary blob with a function that is like "SynchronousReadFromSocket(a)` on hardware errors it times out. So, whats a good way to implement a timeout? Maybe use another thread with a condition variable? Is there some win32 magic?
 
step1: complain to the maintainer of the blob
 
done ✓
 
yeah, another thread is pretty much all you can do if it's not one of those things you can use overlapped IO for
but what does timing out even do if you can't cancel the operation
 
Basically, the idea is timeout, issue some magic to reboot the controller
 
oh, ok. When you have a mechanism to reset it makes sense
 
9:55 AM
I wonder what kind of resources are leaked when you get the native handle to a std::thread and terminate that. Probably any dynamic memory allocated by the thread which got pulled?
 
yeah, if you do that I'd just use CreateThread to begin with, so that you don't leak any potentially existing C++ runtime stuff
 
or do it in a separate process that you can kill
 
but I mean if you call into a blob you can't guarantee that it doesn't leak stuff
 
that way the left over native handles will get cleaned up by the kernel
 
I like process on a conceptual level but a lack of std::process makes it hard to implement...
 
9:58 AM
aren't you already committed to win32?
 
Well its Qt
with a lot of std::thread
because fuck qt object lifetimes
 
nwp
QProcess is not that bad if you don't need TTY pipes.
QThread is pretty bad though, I stopped using it too.
 
I've only used QThread once but I didn't find it that bad
then again I'm not that much of a multi-threader
 
Yeah I use QProcess to launch other programs, I've had some problems with life cycle for Java programs but mostly fine.
 
 
1 hour later…
Ven
11:21 AM
@LucDanton I'm glad you did
They are dynamic variables (twigil * in action), but it doesn't matter for multiprocessing etc. The my defines the dynamic scope.
 
12:00 PM
@Mikhail there's a proposal but process are rather different beasts depending on the OS, so it makes it hard to standardize
 
12:37 PM
Other programming languages have process APIs (Python, Java..). I wonder what's the issue.
 
They do, but look at Python's one: the number of parameters to handle the different backends is a bit staggering
I guess that they're not sure how to "do it right"
 
other programming languages also had functions to manipulate the filesystem before 2014, same issue really
 
There's been discussion about process in the recent committee meetings anyway, so it's not like they're not working on it
 
very few languages have their official standard bound to such a formal standard commitee process and other languages also don't have to deal with such a large amount of platforms
 
nwp
It didn't save them though. Arguably std::cout is just nonsensical on mobile devices.
 
12:44 PM
well let me correct it then to "large amount of legacy platforms"
 
12:55 PM
@nwp iostreams also predate standardization
 
nwp
I wonder if we had ever gotten them after standardization. The way #pragma once failed makes me think std::fstream would also fail.
 
1:09 PM
@nwp Maybe we would have had something better
At least the formatting is moving away from iostreams
But the proposed low-level IO features aren't getting in the standard before a long time
I'd be surprised if we got even std::file_handle in C++23 :p
 
nwp
Severe bikeshed: A script runner runs and then emits a signal that it will do a longer operation including how long it will take. It's later used to show a progress bar. What's the name of the signal? I originally had timeout_set but it's not a timeout. processing seems very non-descriptive. doing_something_with_known_time_requirement seems a bit unwieldy.
timed_operation_started maybe. Though "timed" really doesn't fit.
 
estimated_time?
 
nwp
in Game Development on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Nov 14 at 15:37, by Pikalek
Time was, there was a member of the research / dev group wrote some code. In said code, was mostly the expected sort of thing. The conspicuous exception were some variables with people names. I.E. instead of something like PatrollingAgent01 it was Alice. When asked about it, he said something like "I couldn't come up with a good name that conveyed meaning, so I tried to pick an obviously bad one to avoid leading others to bad assumptions about its behavior."
I can't decide how terrible that approach is. Maybe Cicada is right and Robert is a perfectly fine name.
 
It's still terrible
When you're not sure about the error name make a FAQ an provide a link to error codes
 
nwp
I'll name it operation_with_time_estimation_started for now which means it'll stay like that forever.
Maybe "estimate" instead of "estimation".
 
1:31 PM
@nwp if it's an internal name and never exposed as an API or resource, don't worry too much about it
Ah I see name of a signal..
Just call it, "light_the_kettle" signal
 
1:51 PM
But in all seriousness, you could just call it "show_progress" It doesn't really matter if the operation is long as long as the signal just mention that you have to show a progress
 
nwp
Technically the signal has nothing to do with showing progress, it just tells anyone who connected that the operation is happening. And the only one who connected so far is a progress bar, but that could change.
 
> Operation: Bob has failed, please contact Newheart
 
as for the progress having estimation it doesn'T really matter either
it could be a flag like
progress -1 is without estimation
progress [0-1] = % of termination
But if the progress is estimated to arround 30min please fire the kettle signal so the user knows he has time for a cup of tea
that's only humane to do that
 
nwp
The only process that can be estimated is the sleep_ms process and that doesn't require progress updates as I can globally ask for the current time. Also the user gets to see how many seconds are left, so they can make their own judgement call if they want to light the water cooker kettle.
 
2:57 PM
@nwp heartbeat signals are for messages of the kind "I'm still working on it", so in light of everything else you said: heartbeat_with_estimate or similar?
 
nwp
A heartbeat is regular, this would be once per such operation.
It may make sense to make regular progress updates at some point when exact time is not known but a percentage is.
 
oh yeah the progress bar thing made me think this was a periodic deal
 
 
4 hours later…
7:14 PM
@JerryCoffin Compared to something like living expenses. :)
 
@Mysticial I've debated getting a switch but I find it difficult to take console seriously
 
@Mgetz Yeah. I also find a ton of reasons to hate on consoles. The only games I've ever really played on them are Halo, Smash Bros, and now Pokemon.
*I did play Pokemon Stadium on the N64 way back.
 
@Mysticial Oh I enjoyed the heck out of them back in the day but we never owned consoles when I was a kid
so I only played them in social contexts, so solo play outside of waiting for others isn't really a thing for me
 
I only had the N64 when I was a kid. And that was only after begging my parents to get me one.
The next console I had was the Xbox 360 - bought at discount while I was interning at MS. IOW - with my own money.
 
for some exclusives it is kind of worth it. I essentially just bought a Mario and Zelda machine. Still worth it. Would have preferred PC ports personally, but you can't always get what you want I guess
 
7:24 PM
My parents absolutely refused to even consider it. We had a computer that was good enough
 
Next console was another Xbox 360 which MS gave to all their interns. So I ended up with 2 of them.
 
My first console was a PS3 which I was incredibly disappointed with
I bought it for blue ray
 
Now that I have a job, I can get whatever I want. But I'm mostly on computers now.
 
I still have my DSi, but it's basically useless
 
Same. GB, GBA, DS, DSi, 3DS. I have all of them - all for the Pokemon games.
DSi was the first one I got with my own money after getting a job.
@Mgetz The excuse I used to make my parents get me the DS was that Pokemon Stadium lets you play the Pokemon GB games on the TV. It was around the same time I was getting near-sighted and needed glasses.
 
7:31 PM
@Mysticial I had good vision until recently, I probably need to get glasses
 
I got lucky compared to my siblings. They all needed glasses rather early. I was sitting the most in front of screens but still seem to have gotten the best natural eye-sight out of the 3 of us
the cruel games the genetic lottery plays I guess
 
8:17 PM
@Mysticial When I was a kid, my neighbor had (I believe) the original Magnavox Odyssey for a while, but it got boring pretty quickly. But then Atari came out with Pong, and all of us got to feel superior, because we'd already gotten bored with essentially the same thing...
 
8:41 PM
How do you like your steaks? (Rare, medium-rare, medium or well-done?)
Sorry for the weird question. But I kinda wanna know.
 
Rare, I need the animal to know I'm eating it.
 
I like medium. But anything beyond medium-rare is considered heresy by many people.
@Mikhail lol, it won't know
Unless the steak is somehow still connected to the brains.
 
@StackedCrooked medium rare in the west of the mississippi and medium east
odd distinction but an important one
 
why the distinction?
 
@StackedCrooked east of the mississippi medium rare is the same as rare in the west
generally speaking the west over cooks meat
 
8:46 PM
So basically you want medium.
Here we call that "A point".
 
no I want medium rare
warm center
 
I've evolved from well done to medium. Last time I tried "medium rare", but I found it off putting. I need more training.
 
east of the mississippi medium rare means room temp center
 
@Mgetz Ah. My logic failed :)
 
@StackedCrooked Medium rare (or, once in a while, rare).
 
8:49 PM
@StackedCrooked blame NY, where rare is closer to english rare (basically still mooing)
 
A friend of mine used to claim that the right way to cook a steak was to have them bring it to the table raw, and wave it over the candle on the table for a minute or two, repeat for the other side, then it was ready. Oh, and when you're done, be sure and light the candles to get nice ambiance...
 
@JerryCoffin Ok.
My nerd brain says: medium rare is supposed to be the best so you should like it. My eating brain says: eew, I want well done. (Therefore I settled on medium.)
 
@JerryCoffin english rare
 
@JerryCoffin lol
 
@StackedCrooked eat it the way you want to? even if that's shoe leather with ketchup... I'll cry over here.
 
8:53 PM
@Mgetz I'm not giving up. One day I'll master medium rare!
Or "saignant" as we call it around here.
 
@StackedCrooked if you don't like it that way, don't order it that way? I prefer medium rare because it's tender and juicy and has a lot more flavor.
 
I meant medium rare :)
 
that said you can actually do well done correctly but it's a much harder thing to do
and usually requires things like brining the meat
 
Interesting.
 
@Mgetz ...but it also depends somewhat on the meat you're talking about. Much (most?) flavor comes from fat, so lean cuts start with a fairly delicate flavor. Overcook them, and they'll be dry, tough and tasteless. Fatter cuts can be cooked quite a bit longer, and remain flavorful and (reasonably) tender.
They also don't dry out nearly as quickly, because much more of the moisture is oil/fat rather than water.
 
9:03 PM
@JerryCoffin true, you can also cook something well done via sou vide and it won't dry out
 
@Mgetz So I've heard (but honestly, only rarely experienced). A couple years ago, some people were getting lots of views on YT doing sou vide using a dishwasher... Most people trying to do sou vide seem to do all right at the basic cooking part, but (at least for a lot of things) you also also need to sear the outside, and doing that well seems to be non-trivial (but I haven't tried it myself, so I'm a bit uncertain).
 
@JerryCoffin hot cast iron pan. oil, splatter guard. Works pretty well for me? 90 seconds on the big sides and 30s on each edge
 
@Mgetz Sounds reasonable. I suspect a lot of people don't get the pan hot enough, or use a light (stainless, or whatever) pan that cools quite a bit when they put in the meat, so they end up leaving it cooking too long, losing most of what they're trying to accomplish.
 
@JerryCoffin you can use stainless with a thick bottom. What you can't use is non-stick, teflon isn't designed for that heat and you need a bit of stick to get a maillard reaction
you need the pan around smoke point for the oil anyway
The bigger issue TBF is that cooking at those temps for most people is dangerous and can cause a grease fire if they don't know what they're doing
 
9:25 PM
@Mgetz ...and from what I've heard, you probably want to choose a higher temperature oil. Here in San Diego, there's a guy (probably more than one, if you look) who sells avocado oil, which seems to be nearly immune to any reasonable level of heat...
 
@JerryCoffin canola, beef tallow, or olive oil are fine
I use olive oil
 
@Mgetz I probably use too much olive oil... :-)
 
@JerryCoffin it's cheap and it tastes better than canola oil
sesame oil I think can handle higher temps too, but it has to be kept cold IIRC
 
@Mgetz I think it tastes pretty darned good, as a matter of fact.
 
has a good flavor though, just not one I'd use with steaks
 
9:28 PM
@Mgetz Yeah, my wife uses sesame oil for some Asian dishes, but it definitely as a pretty strong, distinctive flavor.
 
@JerryCoffin for a stir fry I probably wouldn't use anything else TBH
it brings a LOT of flavor just on its own
 
@Mgetz At least according to my wife, soybean oil is actually used pretty often throughout much of Asia, but it doesn't have much taste.
 
holy crap avocado oil has a smoke point of 520F
 
@Mgetz Not even an Intel processor can do that.
6
 
@Mgetz I hadn't checked the exact number, but like I said, it seems to be immune to any normal level of heat.
 
9:40 PM
@JerryCoffin the hottest you'd even consider getting a pan is usually 400ish
 
@Mysticial I wouldn't bet too much against a Prescott managing to hit that... :-)
 
@JerryCoffin Were Prescotts worse than today's latest?
 
@JerryCoffin I knew someone in school that literally smoked a northwood, you couldn't do that to prescott because it had TM2
which is too bad because that's when the processor fire challenge died
 
@Mgetz Did the person get high?
 
Processor fire challenge: Find a legal stream of instructions that sets the processor on fire with manufacture recommended cooling
@Mysticial dunno, they said their fluid sim finished and then the CPU died. They were able to recover the sim data (not the CPU)
 
9:49 PM
@Mysticial Honestly, probably not. But they were a big jump from any previous mainstream processor.
@Mgetz Back when TM2 was new, I got the interesting job of doing some testing on the temperature management in some laptops with Pentium M's. Ended up (among other things) putting a strip of silver tape on one blade of a fan, and then using an optical tachometer to measure fan speed through some transparent plastic that was sealing up the air intake.
 
@JerryCoffin I had a college roommate that had a laptop he'd never cleaned out. The thing was dog slow and would randomly reboot... so I bought a can of air and blew it out.
Fixed a lot of problems
 
@Mgetz Not surprising. Sad to think about it: the majority of computers now probably run slower than the CPU was designed for, because cooling is inadequate, so they're running into thermal throttling anytime they push the system hard.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:32 PM
I'm a relatively experienced java programmer looking at expanding my knowledge into C and C++. I'm writing a little GTK based freecell clone to get some experience. Do you think it would be best to start straight away with C++, or work with C on this project expanding into C++ after I grow more familiar with C?
 
11:56 PM
@JoshuaD Start with Qt and start with C++, this is how we onboard our new hires/interns
 

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