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12:02 AM
@CaptainGiraffe Strange. The Norwegians where I grew up all seemed to think of it as pretty much the best thing ever--every fall they'd have a big party. My parents were really close friends with some, so we participated a few times, but I'll admit I never quite got what was supposed to be great about it (certainly not the smell). Also made a big deal about lefse, which was innocuous but didn't seem very special either.
Sourstromming wasn't nearly as common around there though. We were way inland (South Dakota), and I'm pretty sure most of the lutefisk was made from locally caught fish, but I guess there weren't really any locally caught equivalents to herring.
 
I think it has to do with vitamin D
Can't survive in the north without it
Cod liver oil is big thing
 
I have been getting so much sun recently, my face is covered with freckles.
Why can't I be uniformly brown?
 
12:29 AM
@TelKitty Telkitty the Ganguro Girl...
@Rick I never had a problem--but it probably helps that especially during the summer, I barely spent any time indoors at all. Get up, get dressed, eat breakfast, play outside, go home, eat lunch, play outside some more, eat supper, play outside still more, go home and get ready for bed, sleep a while. Repeat.
 
@JerryCoffin I mean in the Scandinavian North. South Dakota is North but not that far north. You're family probably just keep the tradition
 
@Rick You misread. My family was friends with some Norwegians, but we weren't Norwegian (or Scandanavian at all) ourselves.
Silly aside: the lady of the couple used to joke about people from Norway coming to the US, finding the long, cold, windy winters in the rocky, barren hills of eastern South Dakota, and thinking "yes, we should settle down here--it's just like home!"
 
I did miss read, but it must have been nice grow up in such wide open spaces
 
12:46 AM
Wide open spaces - that's how I get all the freckles and all 3 of my chooks stolen by predator(s).
And the reason why we get so many pigeons, doves and brush turkeys in suburban areas is that there are very few predators.
 
1:00 AM
@TelKitty so aside from the stolen chooks sounds like a good thing
 
1:21 AM
@Rick It certainly had its good points. My older brother claims that we "grew up in a Norman Rockwell painting."
 
That's the land we own, you can see my car on the left.
The greener pasture in the distance belongs to someone else :x
 
2:26 AM
I can't figure out what this is.
 
3:21 AM
You know the saddest thing about this meta drama? Years later, when people looking back, they are going to see the whole event as the butt of the jokes. I almost feel sympathetic towards those who invested so much time and emotionally deep involved in the incident.
 
 
4 hours later…
7:14 AM
The saddest thing in life, is to try extremely hard, took all the time, put in all the effort, seriously trying to be the pioneer of something. Only to find out, years later, what you have done becomes the butt of the jokes.
Like the Darwin Award.
 
 
3 hours later…
nwp
9:48 AM
Yay meta drama.
 
10:01 AM
 
10:16 AM
I really don't see SE and (fired/resigned) mods will reach any resolution any time soon.
Neither sides is willing to make any real compromises.
To my disappointment, when I did a search on other sites about the current drama on stackoverflow/stackexchange, other than the odd 1-2 posts on reddit and an article or two on some less known sites, there is literally nothing about this drama anywhere else on the internet.
I sure thought stackoverflow/exchange deserves more recognition as a knowledge provider for the services it provides to the internet users.
But nope, no other site really cares. Apparently the whole drama is not news worthy for anyone else. No one else cares.
 
10:39 AM
Except one side is clearly bat shit insane
 
But the other side doesn't know how to calculate so ...
 
Both sides have their loons. The "You can't even avoid using pronouns or have the incling of a thought about any doubt" is crazy to me as much as the "but I NEED to tell people they are wrong about their own identity" crowd
 
nwp
I have seen neither of those and those are not the sides I would have identified.
 
@TelKitty what? Where is calculating coming into this?
 
Winning battles/negotiations are all able calculations.
 
10:48 AM
the fuck you on about?
If you're saying what I'm guessing you're saying... then you are contradicting yourself
calculating how to 'win' implies working out what losses you are willing to take to win
 
Risks is only one thing, timing, strategies are also important.
 
It seems that SE are willing to loose their entire community to avoid an apology
 
None of the resigned mods left this site.
None of the people who need to use this site will leave this site because of this drama.
 
SE can and will die
Nothing is too powerful to fail
It might take time
 
Not for a long time, worst it can do is being in the limbo for a really long time. Which is worse in a way.
Stackoverflow will only fail if there is a strong enough competitor.
 
10:55 AM
They are almost surely fine at the moment, but if the annoy enough of the long standing users who help maintain the sites, content will start to suffer
Yes, a competitor needs to rise, but there are already alternatives out there
and this shit show only makes it all the more compelling for one of those to really push
 
nwp
They have already annoyed everyone as much as possible. People who leave because of shit like the licensing or dumb policies have already left.
 
I can understand why people leaving for licensing issues, I can't understand why people leave due to those dramas, unless they are deeply involved in the drama.
 
nwp
Well, the drama is because of SO making dumb decisions which makes people think they will continue making dumb decisions which makes it look like SO is going down and it's not worth participating anymore.
 
@TelKitty because taking a stand...
 
11:13 AM
@thecoshman Haha, that thing.
 
 
6 hours later…
5:18 PM
@nwp I think there's (a little) more to it than that. I think some of it goes back to a more basic question of human psychology. Most people are tribal to at least some degree, and like the basic feeling of being part of a some sort of group. I think the question for a lot of people is whether they feel like they 1) are, or 2) want to be, a part of this particular group any more.
 
nwp
That sounds like a lot of emotional investment there. Maybe I'm underestimating that from people.
 
5:37 PM
@nwp I can't help but be reminded of selection bias by your remark: would the people who are not as invested post as much, and as passionately?
(please don't the above too seriously, I use pretty much any excuse to trojan horse a reminder of things like selection bias, survivorship bias, or the toupée fallacy)
 
I think the real lesson with recent drama on meta is that doing nothing at all is better than doing something. This applies to firing moderators, as well as the "sorry but not sorry" apologies.
 
nwp
@LucDanton I feel like I already referenced that here. But I have no clue either. Who knows why people leave or stay. I just chat now.
 
5:53 PM
@Mikhail What probably happened is that SE slowly worked themselves into a left-wing echo chamber. This caused them to swing so far left that it makes even SF look conservative. As a consequence, it blinded them to real-life demographics as well as the consequences of their actions.
IOW, they thought that hard pushing social issues would well received because nobody internally would've thought otherwise. Sure they would love to stick to the right-wingers, but what they didn't realize is that they also lost the center and the center-left. Likewise, they failed to see the consequences of firing Monica. They're probably stunned that 4/5'ths of SE users are "right-wing bigots" based on the voting of the 1st FAQ.
Now that they are neck-deep in this, either denial, their ego, or their legal department is preventing them from digging themselves out of it. Or they think the entire world is against them and it's their duty to destroy "all that is wrong".
 
nwp
And they will succeed. People who are not ok with the policies leave, leaving behind the people that are.
 
@Mysticial given what I've seen it's primarily an issue concentrated at the top
with everybody else in the middle caught in the pain
 
@Mgetz It's somewhat funny you bring it up since the Blizzard fiasco isn't entirely unrelated.
 
@Mysticial the blizzard fiasco seems more deliberate
 
A lot of their employees are not happy right now. And let's just say that there are companies out there which will be more than happy to poach are actively poaching some of their capable C++ developers.
IOW, they aren't just getting it from their customers and the media. They're getting attacked from inside as well.
 
6:07 PM
@Mysticial The issue is they were screwed either way, but 'obeying' so rigorously had Streisand effect which serves a purpose of causing backlash too. Without losing access to the chinese market
 
 
4 hours later…
9:56 PM
@Mysticial AFAIK, SO doesn't use C++ at all, so I guess this is referring to Blizzard, not SO/SE?
 
@JerryCoffin Yes, Blizzard.
 
@Mysticial So is it fair to guess that a few former game developer might soon (already?) be working in fintech?
 
@JerryCoffin Don't know yet. But at least our firm will be actively pursuing Blizzard C++ devs.
Basically I asked in an internal Slack channel if we should use the opportunity to try to poach disgruntled Blizzard employees. The response I got was overwhelmingly in favor.
 
@Mysticial Seems like a decent fit--in the end, there's probably a fair amount of commonality in requirements.
 
Normally, we don't care who we poach from. But given the potential for a political link for such a move, I figured I'd ask. The responses I got were on the lines of, "Stick it to them! Those fuckers deserve it!"
No one actually said that out loud, but the tone of their responses were clearly implying that.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:20 PM
@Mysticial don't game developers consistently get laid off
 
11:33 PM
@Rick no idea
 
@Mysticial I think hiring for talent and hiring a dev are two different things. I think at your level they hire for talent.
 
11:48 PM
@Rick I would imagine that the turnover is mostly for the developers who aren't actually that good. IOW, you keep your good devs.
Obviously, we're looking for good C++ devs. So we'd implicitly be targeting the ones that don't get turned over much.
 
@Mysticial So lets call me a maybe-decent to half decent c++ dev. What would that salary range look like?
 
@CaptainGiraffe they would also need to move out to NYC too I think
or wherever the financial stuff is at
 
@Rick Yes, that is why all of these are hypotheticals =) I'd need a $8M guarantee before I moved to NYC.
I'd work for 5 months and then back to the university providing funding too.
 
I just mean the cost of living should be factored in. When you are paying 10K for rent
or however much it is for NYC
@CaptainGiraffe lol that would be a smart plan. Suffer 5 months hanging out with the wolfs of wall streets and then retire : - )
 

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