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12:04 AM
@Morwenn Massive and (so far) fairly interesting. Even a bit of a semi-humor in places: "You can think of this as the “add a layer of packness” operator:". :-)
 
 
3 hours later…
3:03 AM
Google play rejected one of my apps, and felt the need to reject it twice within 5 minutes. The two rejection emails had the exact same content. Apparently I submitted the app for family rating but forgot it has a bit to do with alcohol.
Here are some examples of common apps that are ineligible for the program:
Apps that are rated ESRB Everyone but contain ads for gambling or any inappropriate content
Apps for parents or care-givers (e.g., breastfeeding tracker, developmental guide)
WTF is a breastfeeding tracker?!
The correction has to wait until I go back to civilization. Currently I am a peasant - building chicken coop, planting potatoes.
 
3:19 AM
Happy Monday, also fuck everybody
@Morwenn looks good, when can we have it :-)
 
DIY chicken coop.
Designed and built by one and only Telkitty (with help, not quite the point).
 
2.15.1 Min looks neat, but I haven't seen template for in production...
 
 
1 hour later…
4:25 AM
:47573558. It had a strong anti war themes very much in the tradition Henry David Thoreau. The themes were very old world America.
It was sincere peom that was published, but urban legend took it over for some reason.
The original story seems more compelling in my opinion, and to be honest I thought the urban legend seemed like a less interesting story.
@CaptainGiraffe ^
 
5:04 AM
@Mikhail can you believe this. They say not only did Russia steal Crimea but they stole broach too. This is bullshit!
http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20191014-who-really-owns-borsch
 
Its not so obvious, for certain reasons
Also, while fuck Putin, most Americans would be surprised that Ukrainians choose killing Poles over independence from the USSR...
 
Why do they not like poles?
 
Further, with borsch I think many Russians believe it Russian because the Ukraine is Russian. This reflects the complex interpretation of Ukrainian as a regional rather than ethnic/racial distinction. Made more complicated by the fact that many people residing on the Ukrainian territory wouldn't be, or even self identify, as part of the Ukrainian ethnicity.
 
makes sense.
 
Also borsch, especially with beats, is Ukrainian.
 
5:20 AM
I will not accept this
The other stuff maybe, but not this
 
Anybody going to the society for neuroscience conference in Chicago? (probably not...)
 
5:59 AM
sorry, can't make it :)
 
 
3 hours later…
8:29 AM
So, I've deployed several dlls as part of "sdks", but after reading this article, I realize I still don't know how they work devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20191011-00/?p=102989
I sometimes think these design defects, oddities are Raymond's fault... The man knows too much.
 
 
4 hours later…
12:15 PM
12
Q: I'm resigning as a Stack Overflow Comunity Elected Moderator

George StockerI'm resigning as a Stack Overflow Moderator. Thank you to everyone who has worked hard to make this Q&A site what it is. I'm resigning for three reasons: Stack Overflow Inc. has forgotten how to lead, how to persuade, and how to talk with the community. This has been a slow decline since 2014...

 
12:32 PM
his points are spot on. Real Shame to see people like him leave.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:53 PM
@Rick His points are the same re-hashed points that people have been making for fucking ages
This channel alone is proof of the attitudes of those who shall not be tarnished. They refused to allow this to organically grow into what it wanted to. In the end, they lost a huge number of great active people.
 
@thecoshman I find it amusing when people say they didn't see this whole thing coming when my first brush with it was this channel and how it was handled
 
3:15 PM
@Mgetz what was that?
This old guy can't remember details
 
4:02 PM
Would it be surprising that someone who majors in CS doesn't know what zero factorial is?
 
naw
 
I interviewed an intern candidate yesterday, and it blew me away that the candidate didn't know what zero factorial was. First time I've seen it. It felt like a CS student not knowing what the modulus operator is.
 
tbh that is mostly useless trivia
 
@PeterT Except that it was part of a programming question.
 
@Mysticial I like that one as well. I’ve never done maths with modulus as an operator, and in some programming languages it’s not an operator either
 
4:09 PM
@thecoshman oh the many dramas of the lounge that bubbled up to meta and made meta view this place as a cesspit
 
4:22 PM
@Mysticial no...
@Mysticial it's a maths problem you boob
 
@thecoshman hmm... Because every single intern candidate I've interviewed knew what zero factorial is. This is the first time I came across one that didn't.
 
@Mysticial so?
Programming doesn't require you know maths. Sure, most programmers would have done maths and probably learned that fact at some piont
But equally, would you expect them to know any other domain knowledge?
 
@Mysticial Not a particularly interesting thing in itself, but still seems pretty strange that somebody would be ignorant of it.
I'd presume this came out of something like writing a recursive factorial function. If that's so, I never saw the point in waiting for 0--why not stop at 1 and finish one "iteration" faster?
 
@JerryCoffin I learned that 0! = 1 and x^0 = 1 in middle school in algebra. So I consider it as part of the general knowledge that everybody (with at least a high school diploma) should know.
I've had one case where the candidate didn't know what a factorial was. But that was due to a language barrier. So that doesn't count.
Once I explained it, he immediately knew what I was talking about.
@JerryCoffin That's exactly what the question was.
 
@Mysticial Years ago, a friend of mine thought there should be about a one week course that 17 year-olds should take that included some of the basics of life. If they didn't pass the test at the end of it, they wouldn't be considered an adult, regardless of their age. Not sure if he'd have included zero factorial in that though--it was more along the lines of "coffee is hot. If you spill some on yourself, you're going to get burned, and can't blame the people who sold you the coffee."
More relevantly though, I have to admit I'm not even certain when I learned that 0! = 1. Seems like probably around 7th grade or so, but I'm honestly not sure (and I'm pretty sure I can't go back and look at old text books either--the last time I moved, I decided it wasn't worth packing up the stone tablets).
 
4:39 PM
@JerryCoffin lol... dat example...
Totally not inspired by what's that lawsuit called?
 
@Mysticial Don't remember who, but somebody sued McDonald's, as I recall. And yes, it was shortly after that happened. But Joe brought up the idea for years before that as well--he thought an awful lot of well known lawsuits were pretty stupid.
 
Either way, it's a pretty low bar to be "considered an adult". lol
 
@Mysticial Yeah--as I recall, he considered it the "don't be a complete idiot" test, or something close to that.
 
Most of the time when I ask the factorial question (which I only ask intern candidates), I'll phrase it in a way to force the user to perform input sanitation. And most of the candidates will ask about negative factorials and non-integer factorials - which is fine. Though I've had one candidate go so far as to mention the Gamma function and Stirling's formula. (he passed, got the offer, and accepted)
 
@Mysticial you assume people are taught algebra
@JerryCoffin she got third degree burns, and was only actually seeking medical expenses
McDonalds new that their coffee was hot enough to cause that issue, and instead of insuring it was at industry standard temps just settled with people
 
4:48 PM
@Mgetz Her medical expenses were not even close to the $2.86 million she was originally awarded (though the $640K it was reduced to may have at least been close).
 
@JerryCoffin no the jury decided that McDonald's behavior was negligent and awarded unasked for punitive damages
she was asking for 15k and attorney's fees
aboutish
but who cares about the actual facts
or the fact that there were over 150 other people that had similar issues including permanent disfigurement and pain
 
@Mgetz The question isn't whether they were hurt. It's whether it's reasonable for them to blame a coffee vendor for the fact that the coffee is hot. The answer to that is simple: no. It's perfectly normal to boil the water while making coffee, and to serve it as hot as possible. Ergo, any temperature up to and including "still boiling" should be expected.
 
@JerryCoffin so the jury semi agreed with you, and even admonished the plaintiff. But industry standard was 150 not 190 degrees. McDonalds management was aware of this and their coffee machines even shipped at the correct temp. However, their manuals and install instructions deliberately changed that. Moreover McDonald's showed a pattern of appalling behavior in regards to others. The issue was that McDonalds had done appalling behavior in regards to the industry as a whole and not the plaintiff
 
@JerryCoffin I don’t think it’s fair to characterise a trial over liability as 'I’m blaming the company for serving coffee that is hot'
 
A reasonable excuse for suing the vendor would be if (for example) the coffee was actually in a pressurized container, which allowed the water it contained to be raised to a temperature substantially higher than the normal boiling point of water.
 
4:57 PM
Nobody should be serving coffee that can give third degree burns to the mouth and throat
yes that happened
The coffee was literally too hot to drink
 
@JerryCoffin how the coffee was served was in fact a point during the trial (that’s about as much as my memory remembers)
 
regardless the resulting legislation because of so called 'tort reform' has lead to cases where companies get off scott free in effect in cases where million dollar verdicts are actually appropriate
 
@Mgetz And? Sorry, but "too hot to drink" is exactly how most coffee is normally served. I can hardly remember anybody ever just picking up a cup of coffee and drinking it. The norm is to pick it up, blow on it a bit, swirl it around, blow on it a bit more. When you finally start to drink, you suck in a tiny sip of coffee, and (especially at first) you routinely suck in air along with it to cool it to the point that it doesn't burn you.
 
AFAIK They were not treating the lawsuit seriously and expected the jury to do the same. However, their disrespectful behavior towards the lady caused the jury to take her side.
 
because the law now makes no differentiation between compensatory and punitive damages
 
5:02 PM
At least that's what I learned from a Youtube summary of the process :)
 
@JerryCoffin clearly you've made up your mind, I'm not going to argue with you because that's what it would be. The fact of the matter is that McDonalds management were well aware that their coffee was being served in appropriately and deliberately did nothing because the cost of settling was cheaper.
 
@StackedCrooked I find that believable.
 
Honestly if McDonalds had apologized and fixed it the jury would probably have kicked it to the curb
 
@Mgetz ...and you've made up your mind that what they did was "inappropriate". You've apparently further made up your mind that courts are intended not to enforce laws, but what you consider "appropriate". The first may be open to argument, but the second is clearly false.
 
@JerryCoffin no I'm respecting the findings of an impaneled jury
and it wasn't clearly false, they found communication internally to that effect
which is why the jury awarded what they did
 
5:05 PM
wasn't the coffee served at 180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit?
 
@Mgetz A serious mistake. Juries are supposed to decide only matters of fact, not matters of law.
 
@JerryCoffin um no, that's not how juries work in civil cases at all
 
@Mgetz "the second" was your notion that a court is intended to enforce what you consider appropriate rather than what the law says.
 
180 TO 190 is third-degree burns
 
@JerryCoffin there was no "What the law says" then
there is now, but even then it's just a limit
juries in civil cases have wide latitude concerning torts
Remember we're in a common law system, in civil trials common law reigns
 
5:08 PM
"jury awards such and such" is a classical headline isn’t it?
 
in criminal trials statutory law reigns
 
I thought trial by jury was common law, which is what is commonly accepted among the community.
 
@Mgetz Perhaps you've forgotten (or never knew?) that I spent roughly 20 years as a consultant (and sometimes expert witness) in civil cases? Mostly IP (patent/copyright/trade secret) cases, but that has no effect on the role of the court.
 
@JerryCoffin Patent and Copyright law has largely been replaced with statutory law. Until the McDonalds case most torts were 100% common law. That is no longer the case and hasn't been since that case
The idea that "courts don't make law" is new btw
because that's not how common law works
In law, common law (also known as judicial precedent or judge-made law) is the body of law derived from judicial decisions of courts and similar tribunals. The defining characteristic of “common law” is that it arises as precedent. In cases where the parties disagree on what the law is, a common law court looks to past precedential decisions of relevant courts, and synthesizes the principles of those past cases as applicable to the current facts. If a similar dispute has been resolved in the past, the court is usually bound to follow the reasoning used in the prior decision (a principle known...
 
well, courts try to establish a precedent, where one ruling enforces another.
 
5:14 PM
@Mgetz Even assuming that's 100% correct (it's not, really, but...) it's irrelevant. The basic division of labor (so to speak) in a court is that judges decide matters of law, and juries decide matters of fact. Essentially the only exception to that is a magistrate, who acts as both judge and jury, so s/he can decide matters of both fact and law.
 
@Rick courts seek equity based on the common assumption of the law. Precedent then becomes law for that jurisdiction
regardless, the system was working as intended in that jurisdiction. The judge reduced damages almost immediately
 
equity would be ideal. but courts rarely seek equity in a particular case. If that were the case precedent would be meaningless.
 
@Mgetz You're still missing the fundamental point. The judge is supposed to make all decisions about the law. He then instructs the jury about the applicable law--even if s/he just wrote the applicable law 10 minutes ago in his chambers, that part of the decision is still entirely the judge's, not the jury's. Once the jury has been instructed about the applicable law, they meet and decide whether the evidence that was presented was sufficient to show violation of that law.
 
also, laws are passed which may not be equitable.
 
@JerryCoffin and in that jurisdiction they were given the power to award damages, which they did
 
5:22 PM
Can't a judge overrule a jury
 
Yes and the judge did
on the matter of the awards
 
@Mgetz I'm not sure if you're missing the point on purpose or not, but the level of damages awarded wasn't the question. The question was whether your (or somebody's) expectation of a "reasonable" temperature for coffee is something that was or should have been enforced as a legal matter.
 
not on the culpability
@JerryCoffin back at you, the question was posed to the jury was if McDonalds was culpable, they said that the corporation was in fact 80% culpable
that was the Fact they were asked
not if it was reasonable
 
@JerryCoffin if we’re still talking about the actual case then, again, putting it down to mostly 'expectation of a "reasonable" temperature for coffee' is not a charitable characterisation of how the trial reached its conclusion
 
I think by reasonable he means since there was no law regarding such a matter. The court deferred to common understanding
 
5:27 PM
@Mgetz You're mistaking "it relates to something factual" as meaning "It's a matter of fact". I can point to (for example) a court precedent. It's either a fact that the decision was made or not--but that doesn't make it a matter of fact. It's still a matter of law.
 
I'm going to drop this as it's not a productive conversation
 
sorry to insist, but it grates me to off-handedly second guess how a judicial decision was reached considering that's the whole point of a justice system, and I feel like that has an actual society cost (that Mgetz already elaborated on re: tort reform)
 
@LucDanton It may not be charitable, but I've yet to see even the slightest indication that it's inaccurate.
 
@LucDanton he hasn't and doesn't care to research the findings of the court and jury. It's a waste of time
 
Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
 
5:30 PM
@LucDanton When I was doing consulting on legal projects, one of the things I learned was that virtually every case is second-guessed, often for years at a time.
 
Good evening
Or day
 
even if it hasn’t affected me personally to this day what with different legal systems and all that, the case has enough renown that it’s not a complete unknown over here (well perhaps not as much these days) and I worry all the same—if not for the immediate consequences, but at least when it comes to that particular attitude of second-guessing
 
Or whatever
 
@Morwenn quite you :-)
 
:thonk:
I'm bored :/
 
5:31 PM
your mom is bored
:-o
 
@Mgetz You really need to apologize for that. I've read the full transcript of that case about a dozen times, and talked through it with at least three different lawyers. Your accusation to the contrary, and assumption that my disagreement with you must stem from ignorance, and/or claim that such ignorance is wilful is a completely unacceptable personal attack.
 
@JerryCoffin Having actually talked with a lawyer on the case I find that hard to believe
 
@Rick knowing her she's probably doing something like sports or associative life right now :')
 
Sorry but you're conflating something that is 100% statuatory with something that at the time was 100% common law
they are completely different
 
Someone filed a bug report on my sorting library for the first time
 
5:34 PM
@Mgetz What part of 20 years consulting on legal cases did you miss? These weren't lawyers I hired--they were lawyers who hired me, and thought it was important enough to talk through it and make sure I knew the case (among many others).
 
@Morwenn associative life?
 
@JerryCoffin none of it, what part of "That's not common law" are you missing?
Statutory law != Common Law
 
@Rick associations where you do half-relevant stuff with other people and build projects
 
oh
 
you can second guess Statutes all day long
you cannot second guess the matters of fact of a jury in common law
 
5:36 PM
@Morwenn is this sorting library special?
 
@Mgetz What the hell do you think that has to do with whether I've read the transcript of the case? Sorry, but you've descended into just throwing mud around to try to avoid admitting that you've made a personal attack based on outright falsehoods.
 
I can fix the bug in a few hours: 30 minutes while my computer cancels Windows updates, 2 minutes to fix the bug, 15 minutes to compile & run the test suite, and more than 1h while I wait for the CI to finish
@Rick It's made of a template hell, stolen codes, algorithms I don't understand, stuff from research papers, and ad-hoc algorithms I didn't prove but appear to work
 
@JerryCoffin Ok you've accused me of slandering you, and slandered me multiple times. Reading the case transcript does not change the fact that your experience in law is irrelevant in the extreme to the case as it's a completely different type of law
 
Also it's been there since around 2015
 
so no I'm not going to apologize as you've directly insulted and slandered me multiple times
 
5:38 PM
@Morwenn nice
 
Wow, I'm banning everyone
 
I'm done here
 
I think that it's the kind of project that gathers stars on GitHub because it looks cool, but in the end nobody uses it
 
@Morwenn apologies
 
I was joking, I didn't follow your discussion and I'm not ban-happy
 
5:40 PM
honestly? send the entire thing to the bin
 
mv ./lounge ~/.bin
 
@Mgetz Common law is based on decisions in prior cases, yes--but (at least in the US) it has a basis on statute. But, there's lots of common law that applies to patent cases--anybody dealing with patents at all knows and considers the implications of things like Markman (just for one really well known example). If you don't know the applicable common law, you barely have a clue of what you're doing.
 
I need to chmod u+x though otherwise I can't execute lounge despite it being in bin, which would fail user expectations
 
@Mgetz Please cite a single case of my slandering you.
 
@JerryCoffin don’t even think of it
 
and plonked
 
haha, I forgot that there was a working blocking option here
probably because I never used it in the first place ^^'
Oh damn, I might be helping Blizzard there
 
@LucDanton Don't even think of what? Being just a tad upset when somebody accuses me of willful ignorance and outright lies?
Is it unreasonable of me to expect at least a minimum level of honesty?
 
Goat milk yogurt has a weird aftertaste
 
@Morwenn is goat milk yogurt, that salty milk drink?
 
5:50 PM
@JerryCoffin Expecting things on the internet is borderline unreasonable :')
@Rick nope, just yogurt, but made out of goat milk
 
@Morwenn Well, I guess you have a point there.
 
@JerryCoffin When you approach something from the perspective that the other person is an idiot it comes off extremely condescending and it's wrong. The fact of the matter is that my parents are personal friends with a lawyer that was involved in the case (albeit indirectly). Furthermore expecting appeal to authority to work here... is asking a lot.
 
I'd love to make that argument in the presence of bartek
 
@Mgetz I certainly didn't approach anything with a perspective that anybody here was or is an idiot. Ignorant of the subject matter at hand? Maybe, sometimes. not an idiot.
As for appeal to authority...I'm not getting it. I pointed to years of experience in the area, not to claim that I'm an authority, but only to defend the fact that I wasn't speaking out of complete ignorance.
 
@Morwenn does it taste different from goat cheese?
 
5:58 PM
@Rick It tastes like usual cow milk yogurt, but the aftertaste is a bit reminiscent of goat cheese
 
interesting
 
I guess that you get used to it about a while
 
@Morwenn I think I could get used to it pretty quickly (but I'm pretty fond of goat cheese).
 
Oh, I like goat cheese, I'm just not used to that taste in yogurt
Since I mostly consider cheese as "salted" and yogurt as "sugary" when I eat
Even though goat cheese is often eaten with honey
 
goat cheese with honey sounds good
 
6:05 PM
@Morwenn Yeah, that's understandable (and yeah, some goat cheese is pretty seriously salty).
 
I made myself hungry in the process .___.
I haven't eaten that crêpe in years
 
@Morwenn Seems like it's probably pretty badly spoiled by now if it's been sitting for years waiting to be eaten.
 
I knew someone would make that joke, and of course it was you x)
I've been mostly sitting for the last 10 years and was indeed kind of spoiled
 
@Morwenn My apologies for being predictable.
 
Don't be sorry :p
(inb4 you're not sorry, only apologizing)
 
6:22 PM
@Morwenn Now I feel guilty for being sorry...
 
Don't try me x)
 
@JerryCoffin you should
 
I feel sorry for being guilty
Yay, my Travis OSX build started to fail for no obvious reason
Apparently cmake --build -j 2 isn't recognised anymore wtf
But only in the Xcode 9.2 VM
 
6:57 PM
@Morwenn XCode, the destroyer of all!
 
@JerryCoffin going to disagree on that, extensively
@JerryCoffin XCode: Because why would you want a reproducible build of clang that doesn't have weird apple modifications...
 
7:27 PM
@Mgetz If you can point to reasonably specific instances of treating people as idiots (or being condescending or disrespectful in general), I'll work on modifying my behavior. But something so general that's it's basically little more than "yeah, you suck" doesn't give me much to go on as to what and/or how I should improve.
 
8:01 PM
Would using assert qualify as TDD in C++
 
hi
 
hi
@Rick some say that built-in assertions are either contracts or simply defensive programming
 
@Morwenn so it would not qualify as test-driven development, you would prefer to see a separate function all together for tests
 
I don't know x)
TDD is just "test your interface before implementing it"
So if the tests are built-in you can't really write them before the implementation :')
Writing function declarations with preconditions and postconditions probably qualify, idk
 
@Morwenn dam it!
 
8:09 PM
@JerryCoffin Tone and approach come off really harsh, it's hard to point out specific items. The best advice I've ever gotten on this sort of thing is "First seek to understand". Basically if you can find out where the other person is coming from you can seek to fill the gaps that they may have, or help them understand where you're coming from.
 
@Mgetz I see. Well, I'll do my best to give you a better chance to point it out should such misbehavior recur.
 
@JerryCoffin I'll try better too, conflict inherently comes from misunderstanding
 
what
 
wait what?
 
8:14 PM
just happend
 
oh I know what happened, it's the why
 
impulse, kind of
you're also among the most regular people around here from the longest time
most of the owners aren't around anymore
 
@JerryCoffin come back!
 
@Morwenn and yet I'm kinda useless as I don't have 10k rep and thus access to any of the tools?
 
don't worry, I'm useless too :')
tbh this chat had a history of having many owners because the old C++ chat's owners left and there wasn't any active owner left
so it's not surprising that the most active people become owners as long as they're trusted enough
 
8:22 PM
Oh dear, I've screwed up... people trust me
 
@JerryCoffin This is ridiculous. We all know @Mgetz was wrong. Look he just apologised!
 
@Rick no I didn't
 
What the fuck did I miss?
 
not meta drama
 
^
 
8:26 PM
The "why" is simple and straightforward. If I'm honestly being rude, condescending, or harsh toward others, then I clearly shouldn't be a room owner. Nobody should be above the law (or the rules, etc.)
 
Haha, hum
looks at the list of owners
 
@JerryCoffin in one instance? it's not like it's an everyday thing
 
This room isn't exactly known for being all cuddles and unicorns... just sayin'
 
8:29 PM
@JerryCoffin what, this sounds ridiculous. You should be rude and above the law, it's an expectation!
 
hmm
 
tbh I like cuddles and unicorns
 
Speaking which: If nobody minds, I'm going to add a few more regulars to the room owners list.
 
they aren't bad really
 
I want to be clear that I have not removed anybody from the list for room owners.
 
8:30 PM
I thought I added you back
stupid CSS not updating
 
@Mysticial please do
 
@Mysticial might as well
 
@Mysticial Long overdue, to be honest.
 
Nooble 2019
 
8:34 PM
I need to release the version 1.0.0 of gfx/cpp-TimSort
But I feel like I had something left to do and I don't remember what .__.
 
@Morwenn Get high? You might remember
 
That's actually what I was about to do
 
State dependent memory is a thing
 
I guess that I wanted to put everything in a detail:: namespace
 
8:36 PM
Wait... Pirate wasn't already an owner?
 
Oh, and I want to nuke the asserts in the cpp-sort port
I wouldn't want a random sorting algorithm to crash an application
 
@Morwenn it can still do that, but only because of UB
 
I've seen people in the wild nuke the assertions from the algorithm and I don't have asserts in other algorithms
 
@Mgetz Oh, just to be clear: I had earlier removed myself. I was referring to the post above saying I'd removed you, which I hadn't.
 
oh
 
8:42 PM
@Mgetz You got trolled hard:
 
Yeah I knew that was just @Morwenn playing around
 
13 mins ago, by Morwenn
lol
 
@Mysticial While we're at it, should we remove those who haven't been here in a long time (say, more than a year)?
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah. If they come back, we can re-add.
 
@Morwenn respect, you are a true troll master!
 
@Feeds they are actually technically still here
Technically so is Xeo
 
Oh shit you're right. The last date is just for posts.
 
Robot however seems to have fully migrated to discord
 
Why does it not list a last date for Fred, but it does for everyone else who's inactive?
 
8:52 PM
@Mysticial he overflowed?
 
lol
Same with sehe and borgleader. Both in here recently.
 
@Rick Cicada's not here anymore so I need to make the legacy survive somehow :'(
 
@Morwenn eh they're on discord, it's easy to go get a cicada fix
 
@Mgetz which server
 
Yeah, but it was fun when everybody including innocent souls could benefit from high-level functional trolling
 
8:56 PM
I don't think it's private private, search the starboard for the invite link
pretty sure Cat posted it there
 
We've mostly failed to gain new members on Discord so far x)
And a few have left or were banned
 
well it kind of fell off the planet, or people use the committee slack
 
Come to think of it I've never used the committee slack
But I did join #include<C++> in the meantime
 
@Morwenn nor have I, but it sounds like the typical shenanigans
hmm I can't even create an invite link anyway
 
Better raise the issue over there if more people want to join
 
9:00 PM
don't really care? If Cat wanted people there would be a link
 
We technically still have a room dedicated to people who want to join :')
 
yep with no way to get there!
 
> Joining requires following a two step instruction so I can see how that might be a problem
Enjoy the cat answer x)
 
@Morwenn Cat is cat
 
user8104581
Apparently just searching "discord" and sorting by stars brings it up
 
user8104581
9:09 PM
Guess I'll be joining again
 
@andreyrk which one are you joining?
oh there is actually a link there
 
user8104581
Guess I have to be verified, let me in overlords. Andrey#5658
 
I'd probably be here more often if my screen at work wasn't visible by other people x)
 
Mgetz has removed Xeo from the list of this room's owners.
 
at @Xeo's request on discord
 
9:17 PM
aw man, I thought it was going to get all game of thrones in here
 
hmm we have an insanely high blue to user ratio in here
 
10:16 PM
So, just got my first message from SO.jobs. They are offering me a 3x salary increase. Is this normal for so/jobs? I'm not interested in the job, just curious about the inflated salary. Also could this reasonable expected to result in a Job offer or is this just flim flam.
I'm not sure I understand how to use the idiom in this context, but I'd like to reply something along the lines of "This is way above your pay grade". I'm not looking for "Salary bracket" or something like that. More like "out of your depths"
 
@CaptainGiraffe Do they know your current salary? Otherwise, it'd be insane to just offer 3x off the bat.
 
@Mysticial They could make an assumption of a few facts, and it would be more than I currently make. The insanity is why I'm asking.
@Mysticial The are offering me way more than EUR 100.000 a year.
 
100k Euro is entry-level dev in tech in a place like the SFBA. So depending on the position it might not too out of the world.
 
@Mysticial My current is in the neigbourhood of EUR 60k per year.
 
10:32 PM
What kind of position is this?
 
@Mysticial Ok, intuition reference levels has been adjusted accordingly. My fixed expenses where I live now are about EUR 5k per year.
@Mysticial It is a c++ developer position. The product is to me very uninteresting.
@Mysticial Although it kinda mergers in to what my research group is doing.
 
@CaptainGiraffe I believe the only people who can send you anything there are people who've paid to advertise a job, so it probably filters out most of the complete flim flam. On the other hand, it could include some who (for example) have a couple hundred bucks to spend, and are sure that angel investor they ran into at the bar is going to pony up a few million dollars any day now...
 
@CaptainGiraffe A senior development job can easily fetch 200k USD or Euro in an expensive place.
So off of 60k, 3x isn't out of the world.
 
@Mysticial I'm very comfortable with my ~60k, I'm extremely happy with what I do. I'd still like to make some sort of reply, you know, just for giggles.
My brother before he retired, made about 5x as much as I did. We often talk about our jobs. He was very successful starting out as an MBA.
I think his last yearly income was about $450k.
Goddamn he hated his job.
 
10:58 PM
> Thank you for bug repro. I also could not reduce the code further - bug is in register allocator. It re-used same register for both H3 and for _c:
^^ hahahahaha
So it's not just their SIMD codegen that has problems.
/cc @Mikhail
I have to say, MS is getting faster at responding to the bugs I file at them.
 
I respect the first moderator who resigned for the matter, maybe the second one. Rest of them just remind me of a herd.
A herd of moderators who resigned.
 
with a twitter architecture when someone like really famous who has 10 million users, would you push the updates to their followers using sockets, or would you use a rest service and have devices grab updates from the server.
which approach would be more efficient.
 
11:14 PM
@Rick I'd probably use a pub-sub architecture, so when they tweet something, it gets pushed to the publish queue. The queue would probably support either push or pull--push via websocket if the user is available. If they aren't available soon enough, it sits waiting for pulls (and eventually probably gets discarded from the queue completely).
 
@JerryCoffin so sockets are used to push out data via a publishing queue, and there is a separate process for pulls which follows a different life cycle
So they execute two different strategies for updating the device.
 
@Rick Keep in mind, I'm only talking about one thing that would work, and tends to fit with how people like things--but without looking at their source code, it's probably impossible to be certain whether it matches what they actually do.
You could figure out at least part of it based on their client-side code, if you were ambitious enough.
 
@JerryCoffin That's not a bad idea.
 

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