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12:02 AM
lol
Literally, as I complain about MS tools crashing, I try saving the C++ analysis list and crash the IDE. I can't disable this junk because the IDE keeps crashing >:-(
 
It knows you are bad-mouthing its people
or maybe MS is just listening in through the IDE, and they are like, "this guy is bad mouth us online and using our product for free, F this guy crash his IDE!"
 
12:25 AM
@Mikhail Are the tools in question written by the same people who wrote the style guide, using the language(s) for which the style guide was intended, and written entirely after the style guide, so they stand at least some minimal chance of actually following it?
 
@JerryCoffin "Jordan Maples" (if that is his real name), committed the GSL style guide, and works on the "Visual C++ Compiler and Language Platform" as part of the "C++ Static Analysis team". Now, the front end crash (image) is probably somebody else's fault (maybe C#?), but I also see a bunch of back-end crashes, that cause it to ICE when analyzing my code.
So, the GSL style guide is written by people who are unable to deliver bug free code :-)
Its going to be even funnier if they don't actually follow their style guide
Or even funnier if the "gsl" headers don't compile with gcc/clang/icc making your code non-portable by default.
What if M$ is bad people :-)
 
@Mikhail That would be a more meaningful pronouncement if there were others who did deliver bug-free code (though admittedly, there are undoubtedly others who come quite a bit closer to bug-free than Visual Studio).
 
clang, gcc is more functional
 
@Mikhail That was part of my point. VS is ancient. I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it still uses some code from the 16-bit days.
@Mikhail Yup--and also much newer and much less constrained by existing code going back 40 years or so.
 
12:44 AM
Which survey, how many of you guys annotate with [[nodiscard]]?
 
@Mikhail No, at least not for work (for various reasons, I'm stuck with a compiler too old to recognize it).
 
 
2 hours later…
2:24 AM
Regardless of knowing that Amazon is almost certainly evil corp
I've been saving so much money with Amazon lately
the only way I could save more money is by not spending my money
Amazon prime shipping is just incredible 1 or 2 day shipping is just incredible
Now I have a circular saw, it's wednesday and I'll have to spend the remaining days of the week looking at it but being unable to cut anything because I don't have wood to cut
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix I also find myself buying off Amazon Prime a lot now because of the discounts and shipping.
Ordered some out-of-stock ram that was supposed to deliver at the end of the month. It's coming in tomorrow. Guess they had some secret or unexpected shipment. (or some asshole made a return)
 
If I buy something coming from a different province in Canada, I apparently am going to pay only the tax in the province the product come from.
My circular saw would have costed me around 400$ with everything included in a local store but I paid only 260$ which is pretty much a bare tool in a local shop without battery, without bag
the comp I built a few months ago would have costed me around 4000$ if bought in a shop
 
2:53 AM
Amazon is not a thing in Australia. I used to think Australian market should be similar to that of US, but it's actually not.
Amazon & JD have both tired and failed/failing in Australia.
It's kind of amazing why US only has 1 eCommerce giant, China has 3 nowadays. No wonder Trump does not want competition from aboard.
Maybe sharpen the competitiveness from within instead of shutting everyone else out?
US needs more eCommerce giants.
 
3:11 AM
How's ebay in Australia?
while ebay isn't technically the same thing but close. except with more scammers
 
I use gumtree & aliexpress mostly.
eBay was never that good, but used to be better.
 
aliexpress is nice
but you'll get pretty much only chineese stuff from there
 
Gumtree doesn't have that much variety but things can be picked up straight away. Aliexpress is cheap but waiting time is long. There is also kogan, price of stuff on discount are reasonable.
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix For computer related stuff, we usually buy from msy.
 
waiting time for aliexpress is long? I'd expect to be quick considering how close china is.
 
2-4 weeks mostly, which is very long.
 
3:21 AM
I didn't order anything with ali since I came back in Canada but it used to be that long in Russia.
mostly due to customs thought
 
I like local physical stores - knowing exactly what I am getting.
Australian consumer law is better than most other countries. If you buy from Australian local store, you almost don't have to worry about quality.
Online store is cheap, but quality varies.
 
ah, depends what you buy thought
there are things that even bought online it won't matter much like brand tools
 
Goods can be damaged during shipping. Returning would also be an issue. It doesn't happen often, but does happen once in a while if you buy enough stuff.
 
one of the thing that's really hard to buy online is fabric
 
What do you need fabric for?
 
3:28 AM
sewing clothes, furnitures
 
Hmmm... did I ask a bad question today? stackoverflow.com/q/58002026/765294
 
@Will I'd say questions like that are subject to opinion
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Sure, I guess it is. But aren't a lot of questions subject to opinion?
I guess I just don't really understand why Stack Overflow is so allergic to anything that might be opinionated.
 
to be honest, the answer seems simple, it's obviously a bad thing to do, because by doing so, you're exiting a program prematurely which prevent it from doing things like cleanup
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Here, there are always some discounted fabric somewhere in a physical store. The issue is time, how many people have time browsing around to get a particular thing they would like to have but don't necessarily need?
 
3:32 AM
Fabric is kinda expensive but discounts are quite good
 
@Will keyword in the question is 'always'. There will be exceptions.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix And an answer like that doesn't even sound too opinion-based to me. Those practical concerns, no?
@TelKitty: then I (and others?) might be interested to learn those exceptions -- hence the question.
 
Maybe change your question to ask that then?
 
@TelKitty Because that would involve making the assumption that there are in fact valid exceptions, which honestly I don't know.
Besides, there are plenty of upvoted questions on SO phrased in exactly the same "always" manner...
 
3:52 AM
Thanks @LoïcFaure-Lacroix (+1)
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix I wonder about your phrasing "In the case of a general library", which is to say: I kinda thought libraries are always intended to be general. If not, what is even the point of making it a library in the first place? (There might be a point, but none have occured to me.)
...I guess it could make sense in some cases to create a library with only a certain "breed" of programs in mind.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:30 AM
I mean a general library vs a plugin
in the sense that a general library can be linked to any program but a plugin is technically dependent on the program but can be loaded/unloaded dynamically
 
user7659542
6:02 AM
I always thought the only situation when one is allowed to prefix functionnames with a double underscore is when writing compilers or other obscure things
 
user7659542
this post confirms my thoughts
 
user7659542
119
A: Why do people use __(double underscore) so much in C++

macculltFrom Programming in C++, Rules and Recommendations : The use of two underscores (`__') in identifiers is reserved for the compiler's internal use according to the ANSI-C standard. Underscores (`_') are often used in names of library functions (such as "_main" and "_exit"). In order to av...

 
user7659542
Yet, I see people implementing functions prefixed by double underscores in libs or the Linux kernel, eg:
 
user7659542
I don't get that. What is those people's reasoning for doing such weird stuff outside a compiler?
 
6:04 AM
7
Q: What is the meaning of leading and trailing underscores in Linux kernel identifiers?

A.SmithI keep running across little conventions like __KERNEL__. Are the __ in this case a naming convention used by kernel developers or is it a syntax specific reason for naming a macro this way? There are many examples of this throughout the code. For example some functions and variables begin wit...

 
user7659542
this page states:
 
user7659542
In internal code, the convention usually is that symbol __something is workhorse for something excluding some management, often locking. That is a reason for things like __d_lookup . Similar convention for system calls is that sys_something is the system call entry point that handles context switch to and from kernel and calls do_something to do the actual work.
 
user7659542
does this imply every static function, local to a translation unit, should be prefixed by a double underscore?
 
user7659542
@Mikhail
 
user7659542
I think very few companies respect this naming convention or are even aware of this
 
10:09 AM
That tasty tail >_<
 
10:56 AM
cppcon 2019 videos are starting to come out
 
11:44 AM
ill go get a towel
 
12:08 PM
@traducerad No, and double no
 
12:33 PM
@Mikhail Believe it or not my current job doesn't do C++ actively. C++ is more a hobby. But traditionally we've dealt with it using test matrices in CI where you run builds against the new compiler for awhile to verify code gen and other things before you consider switching.
 
 
3 hours later…
user7659542
3:08 PM
@Mgetz in which realistic cases can somebody decide to reserve an indentifier?
 
@traducerad if they are on the committee or an implementation engineer yes
otherwise no
 
user7659542
what
 
user7659542
about this
 
user7659542
api?
 
user7659542
3:16 PM
as you can see it prefixes many functions with a double underscore.
 
user7659542
it is used to create linked lists
 
C or C++ and is that part of the OS?
 
user7659542
C
 
user7659542
Does it matter whether it is part of the OS?
 
Both matter, the rules are different
The C rules still limit what you can do with double underscore. OS in general is considered an implementation or self-hosted, so rules don't really apply per se.
That said most implementers still enforce them internally to draw a line
 
user7659542
3:25 PM
indeed this from the OS (still wondering how you seem to have guessed it)
 
user7659542
but it is being used in an application
 
user7659542
is this ok in a C application according to you?
 
no, because the implementation (aka compiler) can suddenly decide to #define one of those identifiers
 
user7659542
why would it suddenly do so?
 
if it moves an implementation to the header, they are going to use reserved identifiers to avoid the application from messing with them accidentily
the entire reason why reserved identifiers exist in the first place
 
user7659542
3:37 PM
I understand that you prefix identifiers to mark them as reserved to make sure somehow that nobody else can redefine your identifier.
But why would the compiler redefine stuff identifiers or move them to a header file?
 
user7659542
I suppose typically os related stuff is reserved to make sure you don't break the system somehow by running an application which uses those identifiers
 
my scenario include a bad application using reserved identifiers
so when the compiler makes the change it is perfectly within its right to use those reserved identifiers and assume that it won't be in conflict with any program
 
@traducerad compiler implementer? Because they can, that's their prerogative
 
nwp
Standard library implementers put stuff in headers and can break your code by defining your double underscore identifiers away. And compilers have intrinsics and you may suddenly not call what you thought you were calling. They usually don't purposefully screw with your code, but name clashes happen and then on some versions of the standard library or compiler your program suddenly stops working.
__list_add can be a compiler intrinsic or a standard library symbol and then the program just fails to compile or link. And that's your fault because you used a symbol you were not allowed to use.
 
user7659542
ok thanks for those clarifications. But to me this doesn t explain why compilers move eg a static functions to header files without telling
 
user7659542
3:44 PM
11 mins ago, by ratchet freak
if it moves an implementation to the header, they are going to use reserved identifiers to avoid the application from messing with them accidentily
 
nwp
That's not the compiler doing it, that's the compiler implementer who decides to implicitly always include "intrinsics.h" into every source file and that happens to use the same reserved identifier you do, and then you get a name clash.
 
user7659542
ok I see, but this doesn't mean you cannot start defining your own reserved identifiers in an application
 
nwp
You can, but it's UB and you lose all guarantees that the standard gave you.
 
user7659542
if you have a very exotic identifier or so of which you are sure there is no other declaration/definition elsewhere
 
nwp
Then the compiler is free to break your program anyways because it's UB.
 
user7659542
3:49 PM
@nwp ok ok. So, the point is that one should avoid to prefix identifiers because maybe one day somebody may use exactly the same identifier and hide your definition
 
user7659542
somebody aka compiler implementer, OS implementer or somebody implementing smth in stdlib
 
nwp
Or maybe a compiler decides to detect UB when it can, and this is very easy to detect, so it can optimize your program to just do nothing. Very fast compile times, 100% standard conform, outstanding performance(?).
@traducerad You can do it and it probably won't cause issues, but you gained nothing for taking a risk.
 
4:04 PM
@traducerad well insofar as they are standard ugly identifiers yes, you're free to set up your own ugly identifier prefix like foo_ for everything
but better yet don't expose those if you don't have to
 
user7659542
what I said there doesn t make any sense IMO.
 
user7659542
Are all functions in OS's/compiler's header files prefixed?
 
user7659542
if they qre not all prefixed, this means I can have the same issue with OS's functions which are not prefixed
 
user7659542
meaning prefixing is useless
 
user7659542
by issue I mean clashes
 
user7659542
4:11 PM
besides that, shouldn t your compiler tell you smth like "function already defined here" if there is a clash?
 
@traducerad no they are reserved names for that implementation
@traducerad you can in some cases but you don't always have that luxury
 
4:29 PM
-3
Q: HELP ANACONDA PYTHON NOT WORKING SSH

carolineI am SSHing a remote computer trying to run anaconda. I know it runs on the computer as I have done it however, whenever I try to run locally I get this error. I have tried this on different computers too. I have anaconda installed locally. qt.qpa.screen: QXcbConnection: Could not connect to dis...

^^ /cc @Borgleader
 
 
3 hours later…
7:11 PM
@Mysticial 404
 
7:36 PM
Can't screenshot at work. :(
 
draw a picture
 
save as pdf
 
he can't they are watching him
 
This is VM. There's no filesystem.
Or rather I can download, but I can't upload.
 
what kind of VM is it, docker, virtualbox, parallel, vmware, hyper-v
 
7:46 PM
vmware
 
use your phone
 
too much work
 
On an unrelated note, are there any quirks or stories about using vmware effects performance?
 
I think performance is a secondary concern
 
I wonder if its easier to detect certain lock-free concurrency problems, things like torn writes
 
8:05 PM
Isn't that what Interlocked.Exchange is for
 
I don't know what that is. As a hustler, I only have life experience :-)
The experience is that you can write code without locks and sometimes it works :-)
If somebody told me to write a lock-free queue, I'd just comment out std::mutex :-)
I think I've had too much coffee :-)
 
 
2 hours later…
10:27 PM
Mysti's daily life: sitting at work, on stackoverflow, lurking around bad questions.
Our (lounge) promise to you: won't let one troll go unnoticed.
 
10:59 PM
@Mikhail teach me your leadership style
 
My friend> I am actively managing myself.
 
what am I suppose to do with that
I don't want to manage anyone, I would rather just solve problems. Preferably not people problems.
 
From personal experience, most problems are people problems :-(
 
You could always try DIY.
DIY projects usually have very little to do with people and it give you satisfaction when you are done. If you need ego boost, it's the way to go.
 
11:10 PM
I'm writing tests for my tests :-(
Like making sure all my test images are actually ran
 
11:24 PM
@TelKitty have you done this
do you mean like building a wood deck or something
hammer floorboards, plastering, and shiz like that
is this some Confucius thing, where you get wisdom from the wind.
 
Anybody remember how to get the type (directory, file) from a directory iterator? ` for (auto it = std::experimental::filesystem::directory_iterator(path); it != std::experimental::filesystem::directory_iterator(); ++it)
` ?
You get the extension, etc, but how to get the type()...
Looks like it->status().type
The extra indirection with status is dumb, no such level of indirection exists for other properties like path or extension.
 
11:52 PM
@Rick Of course, all the times.
DIY as in building things, be that software, hardware or real buildings.
DIY projects vary in size, starting small is advised.
 

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