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1:18 AM
@Rick The point of emplace is to pass references to the "raw" arguments that will be used to create the object, so you'd normally want to do foo.emplace('b", 'abcd"). That passes b and abcd by rvalue reference, which then forwards them so the pair holding them is constructed "in place", with no extra copying or moving. You get a maximum of one move/copy directly from the source to the final destination.
By contrast, using your emplace(std::make_pair("b", "abcd")), you're copying moving from the source to a pair, then copying/moving the pair, and finally constructing the data in the map from that pair. If everything involved is cheaply movable, that intermediate temporary pair might not bother you. But especially if you can only copy (not move) and doing so is expensive, that intermediate might cost you quite a lot, and using emplace properly would save you that extra expense.
 
2:15 AM
@JerryCoffin it seems like a terrible thing to do, and I can't think of a good reason for the make_pair pattern unless you like obfuscation.
your nightmare has come true.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/23/russian-spy-elena-vavilova-posed-as-a-canadian-estate-agent-for-over-20-years
 
 
1 hour later…
3:30 AM
 Mabel was not (so the legend goes) your ordinary monkey; the university had spent years teaching her how to swim, breathing through a regulator, in order to study the effects of different gas mixtures on her physiology. Mabel suffered an untimely demise one day when a DEC field circus engineer troubleshooting a crash on the program's VAX inadvertently interfered with some custom hardware that was wired to Mabel.
 
 
4 hours later…
7:44 AM
Also fuck society, what are you folks working on?
I had some cogent conversation about women where everybody advised me that I was being an asshole by challanging women to motivate their opinions, and that I shouldn't expect most of humanity (gender nuetral) to understand me.
But then got home and wrote some units to test that my critical kernals were performing within the real time (30 fps) imaging rate.
Also finished updating one of our gentoo boxes at work. Perhaps wokring at 3 am would be more frowned upon of doing ops work was a real job, that you could communicate to the idiots (nsf, nih) that support your profligate lifestyle.
 
8:37 AM
If 0/0 was not an error then I'd have written 0.001% less bugs during my lifetime.
Damned computers.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:52 AM
@StackedCrooked use JavaScript
@JerryCoffin Isn't T&& pronounced as "forwarding reference"?
 
In the case of emplace functions it's indeed forwarding references
 
11:12 AM
@Morwenn I still call those universal references >.>
 
11:32 AM
@Borgleader you're almost as old as Jerry in my mind now :')
 
 
1 hour later…
12:53 PM
 
 
7 hours later…
7:44 PM
@fredoverflow Yes, more or less anyway. That's why the first thing I said about it was:
20 hours ago, by Jerry Coffin
Looking, the link you've provided is to a forwarding constructor, not a move constructor.
 
hey anyone know anything about real time systems?
 
8:01 PM
@Permian Sorry, but no. Nobody on earth knows anything about real-time systems. In fact, I'm pretty sure you just made up that phrase. :-)
 
so funny
 
Made me smile, anyway.
 
how is programming in real time system different to in a normal os?
 
@Permian When I've done it (neither often nor recently) it involved quite a bit of extra auditing to figure out the time that would be taken by every possible route though the code, to figure out the response time in the worst possible case.
 
that sounds painful
so every line of code needs a timer?
 
8:07 PM
@Permian No. What we did was wrote the code, then disassembled the result and annotated each instruction with the time it took (that was all automatic). Then (the part we had to do by hand) figure out every possible route through (for example) a given function, and add up all the times for all the instructions taking that route through the code.
 
so just the final sum of each of the paths
why?
 
I wrote a script that automated that for a lot of the easy cases (just added up the time for every possible combination of each branch being taken or not taken, and give the largest result). The pain came when that was too large, and we had to figure out that one possible combination of conditions could never apply (e.g,.two branches are based on the same condition, which can't simultaneously be both true and false).
 
i dont why the time to finish the path would be the only difference
 
@Permian Because the definition of a real-time system is that it's one where part of the definition of correct behavior is responding within a specified period of time.
 
@JerryCoffin Was this to comply with some certification?
 
8:10 PM
@JerryCoffin i get that, but just the end of the program?
 
@Permian Not just the end of the program. At least the ones I've worked with were intended to start up and run more or less forever. You got inputs (mostly as interrupts) and had to respond to each possible interrupt within a specified period of time.
 
@JerryCoffin how do you guarantee a response within a certain timeframe?
 
@Mikhail Yes--EPA. It's a strange combination of nearly the hardest possible real time (many live could be lost from too slow a response) and extremely loose timing constraints (often minutes, and sometime even hours). It was a control system for a sewage treatment plant, so most of what it was dealing with was things like "open this valve long enough to fill this 200,000 gallon holding pond."
@Permian In this case by counting the number of cycles taken for every possible path through the code (and some pretty exhaustive testing to prove that what we counted in cycles actually translated to the required timing).
 
Umm, shouldn't you have a sensor that checks the holding pond rather than relies on the fixed timing. Should read, flow_until_sensor_tells_me_to_stop() rather than flow(seconds)
 
@Mikhail Oh, it did. But you have to guarantee that when you get an interrupt from the sensor saying it's nearly full now, you actually close the valve within some fixed period of time.
 
8:20 PM
Ah, I see. Thank you.
 
Surely.
The timing constraint itself was often pretty easy to meet--you might easily have five minutes after the sensor went off before a tank would overflow. There were only a couple of places I had to work at speeding up the code to meet the constraints. The difficulty was that you couldn't just test and say: "yes, the profiler shows it runs in about 50 ms, and we have 3 minutes, it's clearly good". The hard part was finding the worst case time, to prove it was always good.
 
Was this in the early 90s?
 
@Mikhail Late '80s.
 
I wonder if the regulatory environment changed much
 
@Mikhail My guess is yes, but I don't know for sure. At the time, the EPA was pretty accustomed to all of the logic involved being hard-wired, and were fairly hostile to the notion of computer being involved. I guess I can't blame them--most of their exposure to computers at the time was Windows 3.0, so the idea of a computer running for 5 years without a crash was pretty foreign.
That system did run for quite a while though. I got to re-audit some of it around 1998, when they needed to certify it as Y2K compliant. It remained in use until something like 2005 or 2006 (can't remember exactly) when a flood damaged the physical plant pretty badly, and when they rebuilt, they used new software.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:32 PM
Didn't we know the Discord author/dev here?
It looks like someone has diagnosed it well that it could be easily fixable.
 
Spamming ... denied ... that makes what you were doing highly suspicious.
 
10:56 PM
Someone pranked me ... someone trolled me ... what's the difference? Does pranking have better intention than trolling?
 
11:19 PM
@JerryCoffin I always admired Scalia's legal creativity. Something he seemed to reserve for cases where he knew where the vote was going to go and thus was free to write something as a think piece. That said... some of them were a bit out there.
 

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