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12:01 AM
@JerryCoffin I sorta agree with that statement, but how would you prevent companies from polluting rivers, drug dealers from dealing, embezzlement, racketeering etc.
A lot of technology today came from space shuttle missions, that was organized by a central authority.
Most technology is subsidized by the taxpayer in the form of military contracts with companies like Raytheon. Also, every major key tech company in the US has been heavily subsidized by the US government. That includes intel, Lockheed martin, and too many others to mention.
I think more credit needs to be given to previous generations, they made huge efforts to make what many take for granted.
I can list a million other things, like the GI bill, but my personal opinion is babyboomers were spoiled and inherited too much without actually earning it. So now this is our predicament.
 
12:22 AM
also fuck boomers
 
@Rick I was talking specifically about education being controlled by a central authority. But even for laws, authority can be decentralized (e.g., the original intent of the US was to vest most authority in the states, not the federal government).
@Mikhail When I was in school, there was a rather clear division between the baby boomers and the Gen X types (even in the same class, with people of the same age). Most of my classmates were stereotypical boomers, where I was clearly Gen X, even long before the term was invented. Same age, but our thinking was utterly foreign to each other.
That said, even though they're quite foreign to me, they're not all bad people...they're just drawn that way.
 
12:46 AM
@JerryCoffin Well it was originally a compromise between the federalists and the anti-federalists. We also fought a civil war over this. My personal opinion is that there is a tendency for this country to want to tear itself apart. The north is richer and better educated and has the majority of the wealth. I don't think things have really changed much. It might manifest in the form of another civil war, things go to shit quickly if people allow them to.
 
12:59 AM
Also, most of the other states are empty and most don't contribute what California contributes to the federal government. Texas comes in second and it only contributes half what California adds to federal coffers.
 
1:20 AM
@Rick Although the southern states tried to claim it was about "states' rights", and generations of text books have talked about differences between the industrialized north and the agrarian south, that's mostly a sham. In the end, the obvious reason (slavery) is really correct.
@Rick Not sure how it really matters, but everything I've seen says New York is second (at lightly more than half of CA).
 
IMHO, California definitely has better places to live than NYC if you have the same amount of money and with the same amount of income.
 
1:36 AM
@JerryCoffin I would say it was both, the two issues are married to each other. However, since the north never really desegregated, I would say it was mostly about federal jurisdictions, primarily the ability of the federal government to control interstate commerce. It will be interesting to see, for the last hundred years we have had a strong leaning federalist court. Now we have a strong leaning states rights court. I suspect this will represent a huge shift toward weaker centeral authority.
 
@TelKitty IMO, it depends a lot on the sort of weather you prefer. There are some nice parts of New York. the finger lakes region, for one well known example.
 
@JerryCoffin Did say NYC not NY state. :x
 
@Rick It certainly has leaned strongly federalist. Based on the noise made during nomination, you'd think the current court leaned strongly toward states rights, but voting so far shows that Trump's two nominees aren't voting nearly as radically as many apparently expected.
@TelKitty I guess I didn't read carefully enough. Yeah, I'm certainly not enthused about NYC, but apparently quite a few people are.
 
I guess it would depend on your personalty. But humans are mammals not insects like ants or bees. IMHO it's unnatural to living in hive like buildings.
 
2:22 AM
@JerryCoffin lol, I never thought the POTUS would direct interfere in monetary policy. I also never thought the POTUS would instruct an ally to ban members of Congress because they were political adversaries. But who knows, maybe the entitled frat guy who "likes beer" and gets blackout drunk, before he gets "good grades", and is a "team player" might surprise.
@Mikhail but It's dropbox.
 
So. Let's you have an employee that isn't doing what you need. For example, ask the guy to write the data structure he needs to serialize the document format were viewing. The he is supposed to write the viewer. Instead he starts writing the viewer and gets confused as to what features are needed, etc. I tried explaining that my comments weren't suggestions but it's not sticking.
 
@Rick Going a few links into that, people are saying that Dropbox lost all their C++ talent.
They're not the only ones. A lot of the big tech companies as well.
 
2:38 AM
What happened? Did fintech take them all :-)
 
2:51 AM
@Mikhail That may be a contributing factor, but I'm not sure if it's at all significant. OTOH, I've heard from a lot of tech people (mostly Google employees) that they are turned off or have left because they got sick of the "C++ incompetence" within. Basically, not allowed to use advanced C++ because it's unreadable and unmaintainable and forcing counterproductive conventions. Thus strapping your hands behind your back.
This seems to feed into a positive feedback loop where those that are good (or get good) end up bailing because they're being held back.
 
One inconguency is that the absolute number of C++ keeps increasing. Does this mean they all moved to cooler places or places that pay less?
 
Now the argument that advanced C++ is unreadable does have merit. Because yes, if you start writing things in pure TMP, nobody but a very few subset of even good C++ programmers will be able to read/maintain it. But the line where large tech companies seem to draw is too far back on the "basic" side.
@Mikhail Or they stop doing C++ and move to managed languages.
I don't think fintech is big enough to absorb all the good C++ people.
I'm not sure about gaming though.
Or maybe I'm overestimating the # of C++ programmers.
I have interviewed some candidates who admitted to "learning C++ because they wanted to join fintech". They kinda sucked. But I'm not sure if it's because of a lack of passion for C++ (due to monetary motives) or the cycle of (no experience -> therefore you suck -> can't get C++ job -> can't get experience).
 
3:22 AM
@Jerry i.stack.imgur.com/ePn98.jpg, picture of Jerry from the 90s
 
3:42 AM
@Mysticial C++ is a valued skill. If Companies don't value it, then they don't know value. Many managed languages are a smokescreen for those who are incompetent. How can you be a good engineer and not know C or C++? How can you not know about the heap and the stack? They have a name for people who only know managed languages. Code monkeys.
 
Quelle absurdite. You can be a good mechanical engineer without knowing about the heap or stack. Being a good engineering is about making useful contributions, which requires managing the complexities of your toolkit rather than - for example, a toolkit of a language you're not using.
For most tasks, C++ engineers are too expensive and hence a bad value
 
@Mikhail if your program is small and doesn't need to perform, you are right, but you get what you pay for. I mean you don't need a rocket scientist to fix a toaster.
but keep in mind, it's also a toaster.
But for enterprise-level software, you will probably want to distinguish yourself. What way can you do that without speed and performance, without C++?
 
4:01 AM
You gotta look at what you wrote, and then you'd find that it is in direct conflict with all the performant code written in languages other than C++
 
@Mikhail I agree, but if you can get it into our pipeline early on, I don't see it as a negative. I mean Facebook can't seem to get rid of PHP fast enough.
What is easy initially, can come back to bite you later on.
 
Games in unity
All the data analysis, image processing and ml in python
 
well there you go, R is the standard for AI and data analysis and Python tooling isn't exactly user-friendly by the way
 
?
C++ isn't required to be a good engineer, or develop complicated software
 
python is dependency hell.
I dare you to ask a python person how any of the panda or ML stuff they use actually works.
I dare you to even ask them what an object is in python. What data structure governs its behavior. They won't know.
Of course, this is not fair criticism, you don't need to know how a car works to drive it.
 
4:36 AM
@Mikhail Clearly too young to be me.
 
4:58 AM
@JerryCoffin was looking into getting a UV industrial camera. The QE curves for the Thorlabs camera were a little wacky, compared to what I expected from a standard UV camera. Thorlabs (thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=7485), standard (pco.de/scientific-cameras/pcoedge-42-bi-uv)
 
5:32 AM
> Um.. just learn C? It has no concept of classes.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:59 AM
Does anyone know I can debug a source code in ubuntu. I want to see how file code is working in linux systems. I have obtained code from ftp.astron.com/pub/file and have working environment with vscode, gcc, gpp and gdb?
 
@HarshShah96 so what's the question? Compile it and use your debugger
 
I have read the INSTALL and README file but can not figure out what is the entrypoint.
 
it has a makefile, did you try to just use "make"?
 
yes I did
 
this is like pulling teeth, so you have it already compiled?
 
7:08 AM
first make and then "make install"
I think compiled it has produced output inside src directory.
how would I link that to gdb.
 
just "gdb src/file" or wherever you have the executable you want to run
 
Type "apropos word" to search for commands related to "word"...
"/home/harsh/Downloads/file-5.37/src/file": not in executable format: File format not recognized
"/home/harsh/Documents/lzma1900.7z" is not a core dump: File format not recognized
This is my first experience with debugging in linux
 
well if you look at the content of src/file it'll tell you that it's just a wrapper for "src/.libs/file"
 
7:23 AM
Yes it does depend on the magic.mgc database
 
seems like your C-related issues are solved then
 
7:34 AM
the command in src directory executes. but as soon as i attach gdb it does not work.
 
 
5 hours later…
12:31 PM
@JerryCoffin Gorsuch is voting about as I would expect, and Kavanagh is a Scalia wannabe without the creative legal mind or wit. At least Scalia could pull absolute garbage out of his arse and make it sound plausible.
 
 
4 hours later…
4:11 PM
@Mgetz I'm certainly not nominating either for as the greatest legal mind of the 21st century, or even on the court right now. But I've yet to see either voice an opinion that seemed particularly unreasonable--and regardless of wit or creativity, Kavanaugh's votes seem to have been quite reasonable so far.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:15 PM
lol, flagged
 
5:43 PM
@Mysticial what was?
 
5 hours ago, by Mgetz
@JerryCoffin Gorsuch is voting about as I would expect, and Kavanagh is a Scalia wannabe without the creative legal mind or wit. At least Scalia could pull absolute garbage out of his arse and make it sound plausible.
 
@Mysticial ok then... I didn't say anything about their politics
 
what does File not found ../Folder/Object/libObject.a(CopyOp.cpp.o) mean? Does it mean it cannot find libObject.a? Or it cannot find the component (not sure if that is the right word) CopyOp.cpp.o?
 
@Sailanarmo not sure what's the context?
 
I'm trying to compile a program. I've narrowed it down to to three objects. The Object itself, in which project A depends on, compiles fine. Project A also compiles just fine. However, project B, which depends on Object, throws me this error. Which is odd to me, since project A compiles just fine.
I am trying to figure out the linker error I guess, but I am not sure what is not necessarily linking.
 
5:57 PM
@Sailanarmo sounds like you need to tell the linker where to look?
 
which I have, which is even more odd. I am using CMake, and I have included both link_directories(${Object_LIBRARY_DIR}) and target_link_libraries(ProjectB Object) and I am not sure why it isn't linking.
-L/home/Sailanarmo/Documents/build-Test-Desktop_Qt_5_12_2_GCC_64bit-Default/Folder/Object is what make VERBOSE=1 gives back to me.
so it has to be linking.
 
6:36 PM
@Mgetz I suppose some could view the "pull absolute garbage out of his ass" part as an attack (even though in context, it was pretty clearly a statement of respect).
 
@JerryCoffin I suppose "shit" is technically a subset of "garbage" since it's something that you discard. But in general "garbage" doesn't smell as bad as "shit". So saying that someone shits out garbage is indeed a compliment.
 
@Mysticial I've heard people being talked about as thinking their shit doesn't stink, but I don't think it was ever intended as a compliment.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:12 PM
Bah. I hate it that the company does not give bonuses in cash but only as stocks.
First Trump and his China trade wars. Then the company announced they would buy a portion of Symantec and the stock went down the drain.
 
8:41 PM
 
@Mysticial Makes some pretty bold claims!
 
9:01 PM
@Mysticial Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of Meta on Parade, where we will show conclusive evidence that Metazins had their humor glands removed at birth! All jokes will not only be downvoted into oblivion, but also labeled as abusive!
 
@wilx The point is to get you invested into the company so its value directly benefits you. I think it's actually fine. You feel like your time is going into something you own a small part of.
 
@ScarletAmaranth Except that I don't care and I don't think much of what I do has that much of effect. 99% of failure is failure of management. IMHO
 
@wilx have you read the art the war? there's a good solution for that! :)
 
You can't just dump the stock the moment you get it? Or is it another one of those vesting things to lock you in there?
 
0) you pick management from the entire work force 1) if they fail, you execute them in front of the work force and you repeat from 0
 
9:08 PM
@wilx I aspire not to manage anyone.
 
@Mysticial It is vesting, so it trickles in over 4 years, and the vested amounts are overlayed weirdly starting one batch each year up to 4 years.
 
Yeah, that's how they lock you in.
I think pretty much every large white-collar job does that (in some form) to employees they want to keep.
 
Why do people make cyclic dependencies? It makes my life harder
 
I think they just do it to everyone.
 
@Rick No. If an employee isn't wanted, they either just fire them or make them want to quit.
 
9:13 PM
@Mysticial CA Technologies was giving us cash before Broadcom assimilated us.
 
can't they just do that after they give you the stock options
 
@Mysticial Well, this is Europe. They can't fire me that easy.
 
@Rick There aren't a lot of reasons why you would give someone stock options then fire them.
If you want to fire someone, you just fire them.
The only reason (from the company's perspective) you would give the person anything (like a severance package) is to either abide by laws, cover any legal issues, or shut the person up.
 
That is probably true, but they say the average turn around for software engineers in the US is 3 years.
or maybe that's just google
 
@Rick It's not just Google. It's seems pretty common in tech companies.
 
9:22 PM
I heard Facebook has a turn around time just worse than a Walmart or McDonalds worker.
 
that sounds terrible.
I should have become a In&Out drive through manager.
 
Beverly Hills Cop 2 on TV. This film is so awesome. I love the humor.
 
people still watch TV
 
lol, I did not know it has very young Chris Rock. lol
 
9:47 PM
 
9:57 PM
@wilx Certainly sucks when/if the company isn't doing well. On the other hand, it does have a large potential upside--giving you stocks has almost no direct cost to the company, so they can give an amount that's potentially much more valuable in the long term than they could possibly afford to give you in cash.
@Rick For the most part, a modern TV is an all-in-one computer with a large monitor and an underpowered CPU (and app availability heavily controlled by the vendor).
 
@JerryCoffin yeah, but the term TV seems outdated to me, I have no rational explanation for this.
quite possibly low brow. I associate tv with a mind-numbing activity.
 
@Rick Hmm...I always thought one of the shortcomings of TV was the lack of interaction. You turn on a show, and your only interaction is to turn it off again.
 
Well, I hope it recovers so that I can sell for the amount I wanted.
 
yeah I, can't watch a movie or news today without also looking stuff up on my cellphone at the same time.
When I look stuff up It's usually about the topic that I'm watching.
I'm always fact-checking shit. Or reading up on some tangent the story is based on. maybe a historical event or what not.
 
10:13 PM
@wilx You said the company was swallowed up by Broadcom. Does that mean it's Broadcom stock? If so, my guess is that it will recover. If you look at Broadcom over (say) a 5 years, they've done pretty darned well.
 
@JerryCoffin Yes, it is AVGO stock.
 
@wilx So let's see. AVGO is currently at about $270. In 2014 it was at about $50...
 
10:36 PM
@Rob you know what you should do, write an algorithm that scans for inappropriate contents and follows it up the conversation blocks. Deleteing them as you go along.
it might make your life a little easier
unless you are already a bot, on some cronjob doing your rounds, in which case good job.
 
11:02 PM
is it better to use a move constructor or a template constructor
or are they the same
 
11:21 PM
@Rick Use a Temple construct to build Temple OS. Honestly, they're entirely different. A move ctor has a signature like T::T(T&&). A template ctor typically has a signature something template<class Foo> T::T(Foo) (might have additional parameters, Foo might be passed by reference, etc.) As to which is better...that depends on what you need. They fulfill entirely different purposes, as a rule.
 
@JerryCoffin Here they give you an option, which is not entirely clear to me. But the move constructor of make_pair seems like an extra hassle. en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/container/unordered_map/emplace
 
@Rick "move constructor of make_pair" doesn't make any sense to me. std::make_pair is a function, not a class, so it can't have a ctor.
 
that is so true, make_pair elides references, so I can't see that as being the reason one would use it either. so someone must have dropped the dice when writing this documentation.
 
Looking, the link you've provided is to a forwarding constructor, not a move constructor.
Both use rvalue references, but for different reasons, and accomplishing different things with them.
 
like what would this be used for unordered_map.emplace(std::make_pair("b", "abcd"));
seems redundant to me.
and it also says " // uses pair's converting move constructor"
maybe converting is the keyword I should be paying attention to. maybe make_pair can perform some special operation I am unaware of.
I guess maybe make_pair allows you forward r or l values, where emplace on its own won't. It's really hard to think of such a use case that might clearly express its usefulness. dependeancy injection probably
 

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