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3:00 PM
@AgainstASicilian Yeah, but you don't really know there are four separate words in there.
 
but i mean say you take a list of "likely" words (i.e. nothing too esoteric or hard to remember)
 
@AgainstASicilian It's easier it's true. That said, that doesn't make it easy.
 
few thousand words of reasonable possibility
 
Yep, like the example.
 
it then seems like crunching 2-word, 3-word, 4-word... etc passwords given that word-pool
 
3:01 PM
@AgainstASicilian An attacker doesn't know the length of the password or the # of works in it. So, they've got to dictionary single words. two word combinations. three word combinations. four word combinations. Few thousand common words, that's still a lot of entropy.
 
wouldn't be overly crazy, no?
 
2^44 combinations?
Dunno.
 
@SamDeHaan sure they do if it's policy or generated for you
 
All I know is that that's more than 2^28 combinations.
 
@SamDeHaan Certainly, but how many people are going to use 24-word passwords?
I'm talking about a sort of probabilistic approach
 
3:02 PM
@Flexo Sure, arbitrary restrictions change everything. What's your point?
 
dictionary attacks work well only when there are few words with no numbers or few numbers added
 
then again even in terms of probability I doubt most people use word-combos as their passes
 
@AgainstASicilian Who's talking about 24 word passwords?
 
@Neil Does two thousand count as "few"?
 
@AgainstASicilian even with only a thousand words, a 4-word password has 1000000000000 possiblities.
 
3:04 PM
@SamDeHaan people are now generating default passwords for users for services based on four words from a pool smaller than 10^4
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Few words in the password, I meant, not dictionary
 
@SamDeHaan Just saying that it is likely that one would not use, say, a two-word password. More likely three or four IMO
 
@Flexo Gosh. Ow.
 
@Flexo You're introducing arbitrary restrictions to the discussion. They aren't relevant, unless you have some other point. Yes, services can do that. That's not relevant to the strength of the password
 
@KillianDS Yeah, 1000^4, but what if one uses a supercluster (even 1000 computers reduce the search space to a billion per, which is very feasible)
 
3:05 PM
Use the supercluster on Tr0ub4dor&3.
 
@AgainstASicilian ehm, what if you use the supercluster on random character sequences? it's the same advantage/disadvantage
 
@KillianDS Sure
 
single sign on with 2FA is the only sane way to go
 
But my point is that I never really understood why "using words" was so widely propagated as a superior strategy when it seems just a susceptible to pattern identification/reduction
 
@AgainstASicilian pattern identification? from completely unknown data?
 
3:08 PM
@SamDeHaan I mean in terms of common password types
Many people, for instance, do password + number
or make common vowel substitutions
only so many common "templates"
 
That's #1 on the xkcd.
 
pig latin was always my favorite.
 
@AgainstASicilian because most humans have a hard time remembering something like 1&N@!DE##*3d3#
 
@AgainstASicilian Because there's a human factor here. You can remember more if the data has meaning. From a strictly algorithmic point of view, you're right. Long random numbers and letters are best.
 
3:10 PM
Everyday i thank god developers really dislike elitism
 
No! I refuse to sound like a teenager.
 
@neil I guess my point is that "meaning" is in itself a predictible/exploitable thing
If your data is to have meaning, then there are certain patterns likely to be present
 
@AgainstASicilian You're right, but you gain more of an advantage than disadvantage
 
The idea is to pick random words, and find meaning later for memorization.
Not the other way around.
 
@AgainstASicilian yes, of course, but it is a constraint you have to work with until we are all like the robot. So, now again, what is the issue?
 
3:13 PM
@LeandroArielPezzente Mmm. Sample bias ?
 
It might just be my own interpretation of things but it feels like people propose this "use a bunch of words" as a sort of uber-protection cure-all for ironclad passwords
whereas I feel like it doesn't fully resolve the fundamental problem
 
@sehe No , not really.
 
You can't solve idiocy.
6
 
But you can solve idiots in acid.
3
 
@LeandroArielPezzente So, link to the research then. Such a resolute "no" requires evidence :)
 
3:15 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes The Lawnmower Man disagrees with you
 
@AgainstASicilian You could have a shorter more complicated password, but then you'd have another fundamental problem on your hands
 
I'll assume there's a smiley at the end.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The Lawnmower Man wouldn't smile.
 
Do vectors "auto-clear" on construction?
 
3:16 PM
@Drise auto-clear?
 
@Drise You mean will they all be instantiated to 0?
 
right; i guess though my point is to use a long random chain of words without meaning (meaning only assigned later like in mnemonic memory methods used for cards) with perhaps enough random subs that, even if predictable, make brute force infeasible
 
@Drise Vector class contains three member pointers: one to the beginning, one to the end, and one to the end of reserved storage. On (default) construction they all point to the beginning (nullptr).
 
I mean: Do I have to call myvector.clear() on construction of my class to ensure there is nothing there, or is that done for me?
 
@LeandroArielPezzente Ah, so it was sarcasm. Also: "research". More like: anecdotical evidence (of the strong variety, IMO)
 
3:18 PM
@Neil Ideally you'd generate random passwords of a decent length for any purpose, store them in a traditional-pasword secured keyring/wallet using a very recent, not yet weakend encryption technique and that has brute-force protection (e.g. as simple as allowing only 1 try per second). But try to explain that to the common pc user. And even that has several issues.
 
@AgainstASicilian As I see it, it's similar to the problem of using low-level programming languages and getting caught in the details or using a high-level programming language and being able to do more because you don't have to think about the details
 
@Drise A default constructed vector always has 0 elements after it's constructed, you don't need to call clear()
 
@Collin Thanks.
 
@Neil mm, yeah
 
@sehe Hahaha , yeap , it was sarcasm all along. I just that that i was being plain obvious. Sorry about that.
 
3:19 PM
Math.Flour is a great function for baking.
 
@Neil Which one? King's or the movie's?
 
@AgainstASicilian There are definite irrefutable (screw you guys) advantages to low-level programming languages, however human beings aren't capable of doing complicated things without first simplifying the bulk of it
@R.MartinhoFernandes I only saw the movie
 
@LeandroArielPezzente THIS IS SARCASM This is how you make sarcasm plain obvious. REPEAT, THIS IS SARCASM
 
What does irreputable mean?
 
Can't be reputed.
 
3:21 PM
@LeandroArielPezzente It only started being unclear after you said "No , not really" hesitatingly. Had you said "No, really!" it would have cleared my doubt
 
I think he meant irrefutable
 
Repute.
 
Irrebukable
 
@sehe careful there...
 
Intrepidable
 
3:22 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Wait, did you really mean what you said or were you being sarcastic with that statement?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Repute and repent!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I prefer </sarcasm> tags.
 
Fight! Win! Prevail!
 
@Neil Ah, cool. Someone found out the hidden layers of meaning!
 
@SamDeHaan Really?
 
3:22 PM
@sehe Pute again!
 
Ah, the sarcasm save.
 
@EtiennedeMartel hehe, you Francophone bastard.
 
@sehe No, really!
 
@SamDeHaan Don't write </sarcasm> without first <sarcasm> or your entire life will have been nothing but one gigantic sarcastic comment!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not French.
 
3:23 PM
@Neil Also, you'll never now.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Damnit.
 
@Neil You say that like it's a bad thing.
 
<strong> I AM A SARCASTIC BITCH </strong>
 
@EtiennedeMartel ...says the french speaking guy. Yeah right, not French...
:p
 
Now , It comes a question to my mind. Does more people learning to code translates into more people trying to inject code in your system ?
 
3:28 PM
@DeadMG the link to "Exceptions" on the Wide home page is borked.
 
@Neil Also, you have completely failed to grasp the sequential nature of XML parsing. It would just either be one big parse failure or an ignoreable stray end tag
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Lang or lib?
 
@LeandroArielPezzente Wut. It comes a thing to another thing? Define 'your system'?
 
@sehe Then that's worse. Your whole life is one big XML parse failure.
Without, I might add, the possibility to correct it.
 
3:29 PM
@Neil Well, no need to assume it is XML. I mean, that is unlikely
@Neil Unless you count time travel
 
It's just SarcasmML.
There's only one tag, and it's a closing one.
 
@StackedCrooked lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I don't really have anything new to say about exceptions other than the checked ones.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I will never close it.
 
so just insert C++ exception text, give or take
 
3:30 PM
@sehe Time is an illusion
 
@sehe You are totally right , I fell into plain idiocy and generalization. Lets just forget it.
 
Done
 
@DeadMG Cake.
 
If everyone learns how to program, it means most of humanity is dead.
 
3:31 PM
@Neil Panic!
 
Possibly due to some event related to robots.
 
@DeadMG e.wut()?
 
@sehe Lib, not lang
 
@StackedCrooked at the disco
 
3:33 PM
I thought about something. If you design an industrial robot, then you might want to put some killswitch in there in case it becomes dangerous.
 
Marvin is really cool, btw.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Genius!
 
Oh, und wo ich gerade dabei bin, mich aufzuregen. Das W3C box model ist komplett hirnamputierter Schwachsinn. #hass
 
However, if you design a military robot, you wouldn't want your killswitch to be too easy to activate, otherwise it would be a pretty glaring weak point.
 
3:33 PM
Ah, man, I feel like it's Friday.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I bet @R.MartinhoFernandes has one. It's probably a safeword you have to put in chat though.
 
^ O hahaha, never new he was racing in German orbit
 
@EtiennedeMartel Are you going to be the guy to stick your hand into the mouth of an dangerous robot to flick the killswitch?
 
- The Zylons are coming !!!!
- Dont Panic.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Everybody loves marvin the paranoid android.
 
3:34 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Put it at the back.
 
Here's the thing: what if a military-grade robot becomes dangerous? It's designed to kill, and it's hard to stop.
 
@LeandroArielPezzente fwoop fwoop fwoop
 
WE REQUIRE MORE MINERALS
 
@EtiennedeMartel We win. Problem?
 
@sehe Translation?
 
3:34 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Remote shutdown from HQ.
 
@EtiennedeMartel He wins, we die. Evolution through selection.
 
@EtiennedeMartel One single military-grade robot won't be a big deal, unless you're too close
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah, unless the damn thing became sentient and just ignores the shutdown order.
 
a few bombs or RPGs would do fine
 
3:35 PM
It's immune!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes They're gonna make a new movie btw.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Then it's a bad design.
 
@DeadMG > Oh, and while I'm at it, the W3c Box model is completely brain-amputated idiocy
 
Detonate a nuke in the ionosphere, that should destroy all electronics in a large radius.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Or is equipped with jammers or whatchamacallit. You know, for resilience against such attacks from the enemy.
@EtiennedeMartel What if the nuke becomes sentient?
 
3:36 PM
See, if we can shutdown the robot easily, it means our enemies can as well. And we wouldn't want that in a war.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes +1
 
@EtiennedeMartel Dunno, use public/private key pairs? I don't know if that is safe enough for military.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, no panic: people will be in need of a dictionary to get what that means :)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Then shoot the nuke!
 
@StackedCrooked What /else/ is safe? certificates are still PKI (+ authority hierarchy)
 
3:37 PM
Also, how original. Take off and nuke from orbit.
Right.
 
Or, better yet, don't put AIs on weapons.
 
But dumb weapons are dumb.
 
@sehe I don't know of anything else.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I was refering to the use of a nuke to unleash a large scale EMP.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I think today's AI won't turn hostile just yet.
 
3:38 PM
Also, shield against EMPs is not sci-fi.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Indeed, but many writers don't know that.
 
And you would want that on a war machine, right?
 
They think that EMPs are super powerful weapons that you can't shield your electronics against.
 
@StackedCrooked So, does that answer your question? Whether it is safe enough "for the military"? Or are you including the option that the military is obsolete?
 
It's like, 19th century technology.
 
3:39 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes You can shield againt EMP by using a suitable Faraday's cage.
 
@sehe I'm just stating lack of knowledge about cryptography.
 
@LeandroArielPezzente Yeah, I know.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Cannon balls!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes quick question. when say that in the case for(auto&& i : container), i can either be a rvalue-ref or a lvalue-ref, can I still speak of reference collapse or is that term only used with templates?
 
@bamboon The rules are the same, so yes.
 
3:40 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Holy Skin Phenomena , Batman !
 
Nice, somewhere in the future I can see the whole earth packaged in a cage as a giant chicken run
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ok perfect, thanks
 
@bamboon You passed the test, robot
 
@bamboon By the way, does your name refers to a baboon made of bamboo?
 
If for any reason you ever have to deduce Fresnel's Equations for a Metallic surface , dont do it. You will loose your sanity.
 
3:43 PM
It's a BAM!-boon.
 
@EtiennedeMartel erm no, ^^.
 
@LeandroArielPezzente I take it you've lost yours then.
 
@StackedCrooked ^^ that was a later idea to cover the retarded name
 
Who needs SAN.
 
@Neil A long long time ago , in a classroom far far away ...
 
3:44 PM
Here's a fun fact: you can't lose SAN if you don't have SAN. Draw your own conclusions.
 
Professor Farnsworth: You can't just waltz into the Central Bureaucracy. It's a tangled web of red tape and regulations. I've never been, but a friend of mine went completely mad trying to find the washroom there.
Leela: Then we'll need a guide, someone who's been there before.
Professor Farnsworth: Oh, I've been there. Lots of times.
[laughs maniacally]
 
All Heil the Grat Cthulhu !
 
Kewl, the Pioneer anomaly was solved, apparently: sci-news.com/space/article00472.html
 
yeah , i know , who needs nerds , right ?
 
@Drise istreams open in text mode by default I think, unsure. TWhenever you provide a filename to a ifstream, you can also provide flags, and one of the flags specifies line endings. In "text mode", all line endings are translated to '\n', regardless of what they were in the actual file. (ostreams do the opposite, translating '\n' to whatever a newline is on your system)
@Drise why do you need to test the failbit? either if (mystream) or if (mystream.fail())` depending on what you need.
 
3:48 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes So we'll arrive at a point where the Pioneer will simply stop
 
@MooingDuck They're the same. Well, they're the negation of each other.
Also, fail() isn't for testing the failbit.
 
@MooingDuck I need to do some error handling if the stream is bad. I might, I haven't worked it out entirely yet.
 
It's for testing the failbit and the badbit.
Makes no sense? Yeah, I know. There's a reason I keep insisting on operator bool.
 
@Drise my code had error handling, what did you need to add?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's for testing to see if your code fails.
 
3:50 PM
@MooingDuck Instead of std::cerr, I need to allow custom error handlers, so I'm taking pointers to functions. And I also have a few other requirements that I didn't specify that were specific to my needs. Such as certain ID values must be unique, etc
 
@Drise why do you need to know if the stream is bad?
@Drise unique is easy, add a bool special_id_is_initialized=false, and use that. Fairly easy.
 
@MooingDuck I haven't entirely figured out if I need to yet. It was an early thought in my head that has now passed.
 
@Drise yeah, functionpointer/functionoid makes that easy.
 
Why isn't this code working?
Damn it.
 
Edit Added algorithmics to actually transform all features into a criterion list and get the actual max value of those. — sehe 7 secs ago
Pearls for pigs, as they say in Dutch
 
3:57 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Which code?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Because it thinks it is Sunday?
 
Never feed perals to pigs
 
Lol: std::std::endl has not been declared.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm working on a GUI designer thing, and there's a bug in the resize code.
 
3:58 PM
@Drise No need. Use '\n'
 
And I've been banging my head on my desk for 2 hours trying to find why.
 
@sehe No, I did a blanket s/endl/std::endl/ and it found a place I had already used std::endl.
 
I missed the the std::std
 
@EtiennedeMartel You should be debugging it instead of hurting yourself.
Usually works for me.
 
Stressing the 'usually' part
 
4:01 PM
@sehe In English it's "pearls before swine".
swine == pigs
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ursine == bears (or am I missing the joke?)
 
@sehe I thought it was funny.
 
@ecatmur but it may be mistaken to portray preference of the former over the latter (due to the use of 'before')?
PLEASE DO NOT RETWEET ANY OF OUR TWEETS. They are intended for their @ recipients only!
3
^ What the (s)Hell?
@EVERYONE: Please retweet - Yay
 
@ecatmur See context for the message I linked.
Dec 14 '11 at 22:41, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Recommended reading: http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/basic-bear-facts/172-are-bears-related-to-pigs.html
 
4:04 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes No relation of mine <whistle/>
 
@Drise do you know the difference between std::endl and '\n'?
 
@sehe 'before' meaning literally 'in front of', I think.
 
@MooingDuck Trick question
 
@MooingDuck Does it have to do with locale or DOS vs Unix endline?
 
@sehe: Not sure why, but those messages make me feel like i NEED to retweet that.
 
4:06 PM
0
A: format an input field and print a round number

Jim NortonYou might consider rounding your input $omtrek using the floor() function before using it in your if-else statement. And here is your code modified showing that the output is indeed 100. <?php $omtrek = 98.7; $omtrek = floor($omtrek); if($omtrek >=53 && $omtrek <=5...

 
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh, context... context-free chats are easier to parse
 
@JimNorton neither of those.
 
@sehe Someone doesn't know how Twitter works.
 
14
Q: What is the C++ iostream endl fiasco?

TodI was listening to a google talk by Andrei Alexandrescu on the D programming language when he threw out a one liner about the "endl" fiasco. I just thought endl was the preferred way to signify the end of a line and flush the buffer for a stream. Why is it considered a fiasco? Should I not be usi...

@CatPlusPlus Quite a prominent, largish 'someone' at that
 
@christomofo Please, please, please stop sharing inflammatory ads. #shell #arcticready
 
4:08 PM
@MooingDuck So is there a difference?
 
lol
@sehe It's not a confirmed user though.
 
Whoever is in charge of that account is either a troll or a moron.
 
@JimNorton One can be used to output a newline. The other can be used to output a newline and flush the stream.
 
@JimNorton a big one. std::endl pushes '\n', and then flushes the buffer. That's a major slowdown.
 
@MooingDuck Aha... that's good to know!
 
4:09 PM
Bad tutorials use std::endl all over the place and pretend it's just a fancy '\n' (WTF? why would we need a fancy '\n'?), so you may find it around often.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes and all colleges
 
@MooingDuck Yes. '\n' is literally [LF]. std::endl is the system locale endline along with basic_ostream::flush();
 
Well it's useful if you want line buffering.
 
I think sbi also has quite a big post somewhere about std::endl
 
@sehe It's Greenpeace.
 
4:13 PM
I think I said that right. Oh gawd, I'm becoming an pendant.
 
You're too heavy to be a pendant.
 
This is one is great:
 
What's it about?
 
Shell going to drill in the arctic.
 
They need more ice?
 
4:17 PM
> /home/rm1/Desktop/WorkDev/Misc programs/NewID/InputDeck.h:20: error: invalid use of member 'InputDeck::errorH' in static member function
 
And global warming blah blah something melts icebergs, and we'll never have a ship sunk like Titanic again. Humanity wins!
Also, the frog is now dead.
 
void InputDeck::HandleError(std::string error, int severity)
{
  errorH(error, severity);
}
  void (*errorH)(std::string, int);
  void (*warningH)(std::string, int);
  static void HandleError(std::string error, int severity);
  static void HandleWarning(std::string error, int severity);
What am I doing wrong?
 
Lol.
@Drise Using a non-static data member from a static member function.
 
@CatPlusPlus How do I fix this? I know that data member is going to be initialized. I know the compiler doesn't...
 
By not using a non-static data member from a static member function.
 
4:23 PM
I'm inclined to agree with: newstatesman.com/blogs/sci-tech/2012/07/… though
 
@Drise initialised on what instance?
 
@Flexo Oh Greenpeace has always been just a bunch of fanatic vandals.
 
@ecatmur InputDeck object has been created. It's calling an overloaded operator>> which needs to use the errorH, because it's possible it could have been supplied by the user on construction of the InputDeck object. Otherwise, it uses the default ones I supply.
 
@Flexo And don't forget the crap journalists we get these days.
 
InputDeck::InputDeck(std::string pwd, void errorHandler(std::string, int), void warningHandler(std::string, int))
{
  echoDebug = false;
  this->pwd = pwd;

  if (errorHandler == NULL)
    this->errorH = &InputDeck::errorHandler;

  if (warningHandler == NULL)
    this->warningH = &InputDeck::warningHandler;
}
 
4:28 PM
@Drise wrong. '\n' also uses the system locale
 
And how is HandleError supposed to know about this instance?
 
@MooingDuck Did not know that.
@ecatmur It's a member?
 
@Drise How should we know?
 
@MooingDuck I realized that. Sorry.
I need a way to call errorH from operator>>
 
istream& operator>>(istream& file, InputDeck& obj) {
    obj.errorH("ERRORS", 214303215);
    return file;
}
 
4:31 PM
@MooingDuck So infilestream >> this;? in IinputDeck::readFile(std::string)
 
@Drise the right hand side is a reference, this is a pointer.
 
Fire your programmers. — Bernard 23 hours ago
 
@Drise infilestream >> *this; I suppose. Normally one puts the "actual read" in the member function, not in the operator>>
 
He's sooooo right.
 
@MooingDuck That's how you did it..
 
4:34 PM
struct InputDeck {
    istream& readFile(istream& file...) {
         complex logic
         return file;
     }
 };
 istream& operator>>(istream& file, InputDeck& obj)
 {return obj.readFile(file);}
@Drise I didn't have a readfile function. It's just copy-pasting the logic to a different place, no biggie
 
@MooingDuck Your main became readfile.
 
@Drise know what? Don't do what I just said. What I told you yesterday works just fine. Leave it be :D
 
@MooingDuck Yea. I know I shouldn't keep thanking you, but thanks.
 
@Drise `InputDeck::readFile(...) {infilestream >> *this;}
 
4:38 PM
GREEN BUILD! Yay!
 
according to the news, even the ShellisPrepared twitter account is part of the hoax
 
Duh.
Shell has done the smart thing here.
Let those Greenpeace vandals dig themselves deeper.
Here's Shell's verified twitter account:
@Shell, The Hague - The Netherlands
Featuring news, events and updates from the Shell communications team
705 tweets, 64.8k followers, following 123 users
 
std::string has operator+ overloaded for concatenation, correct?
I'm pretty sure..
 
@Drise yes
 
Oh balls.
@MooingDuck That only works for the mega overload. I also need it in the first overload, etc
Essentially, every std::cerr must become InputDeck::errorH
 
4:48 PM
@Drise so replace std::cerr with obj.erroH(...)
@Drise why would that only work for mega? What does readFile do besides redirect?
 
@MooingDuck std::istream& operator>>(std::istream& file, first& obj); doesn't have access to InputDeck
@MooingDuck Redirect.
 
0
A: Does "undefined behaviour" extend to compile-time?

refpundefined-behavior stretches even to the far corner of parsing the input data (ie. code) by the compiler, as verified with the below quotation from the C++11 standard. To answer your question with one sentence; undefined behavior is not limited to runtime execution. c++11 1.3.24 [defns.un...

feel free to help this overtake the up-voted but wrong post saying that undefined behavior is limited to program execution, kthxbye.
 
@Drise ah. In that case replace the file >> first with first.readFile(file, errorH)
 
@MooingDuck lol, first is just a stupid container.
 
4:52 PM
@refp What is wrong in his statement? He simply says the compiler should not crash (which is normal, you don't want a segfaulting compiler, no matter how bad your code is), he actually says the same as all other posts that it can throw errors on compilation
 
@MooingDuck One sec.
 
Basically, the compiler can order pizza while compiling a program that pays for it.
I want that.
 
@KillianDS the wording implies that the standard enforces the compiler to not crash during translation
 
I also want to write what I think.
 
"the standard says this and that, but a compiler should never crash" is pretty much how it looks right now
 
4:53 PM
@refp "terminating a translation" says otherwise
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes that would be awesome, let me know when you find an exploitable compiler bug that would let us do that
 
Hell++ can do that.
 
@MooingDuck it ranges to that, it's not limited to that remark
 
@refp He doesn't even mention the standard. The answer is poor at best, but not wrong.
 
Damnit. Didn't mean to do that.
 
4:55 PM
@Drise use typedefs, makes everything so much easier
 
@MooingDuck "behaving during translation or program execution in a documented manner characteristic of the environment (with or without the issuance of a diagnostic message)", if I document my compiler that it might crash I'm safe to do so, that's how I interpret that (ie. the standard doesn't say that a compiler shouldn't crash)
 
@MooingDuck Erm?
 
@refp true, but what's the next sentance? "Permissible undefined behavior ranges from ...terminating a translation ... (with the issuance of a diagnostic message)."
typedef void (*error_handler)(std::string, int);
error_handler errorH;
InputDeck(std::string pwd = "", error_handler errorHandler = NULL,
 
@MooingDuck I'm not sure what you are implying, care to elaborate? (there is a possibility that the language barrier is keeping me from interpreting the standard in a correct manner)
 
You're both arguing on the same side.
 
4:58 PM
@MooingDuck Oh.
 
ewwwwww function pointer
 
@MooingDuck "Permissible undefined behavior ranges from ignoring the situation completely with unpredictable results, to behaving during translation or program execution in a documented manner characteristic of the environment" doesn't this say that it's allowed to crash if it's documented that it might?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The standard says that the compiler may crash as long as there is some diagnostic, which is the opposite of what refp said.
 
the goggles, hey do nothing
 
@MooingDuck It's what the answer he contested said (well, what he assumed it implied).
 
4:58 PM
@refp Yes it does
 
@MooingDuck no, it states clearly that "with or without the issuance of a diagnostic message"?
 
@MooingDuck See, you're on the same side.
 
@refp oh, you're saying it can crash without a diagnostic if it's documented to crash. I was saying it can crash with a diagnostic if it's not documented to crash. Both are correct.
 
I hope I don't have to explain how stupid it is to argue against someone that agrees.
 

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