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3:00 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Ah, CE.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes are you doing it part time then?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes equivalent of a masters or what?
 
@thecoshman Then why did you ask him to prove it? Won't that take time?
@keithlayne Nope.
 
@thecoshman Yeah, I get that you have to cull the stack. But pretending that it's gonna take you a whole hour to find, like, my answer explaining rvalue references, is quite untrue.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes the covering letter needs to stand up on its won
 
3:00 PM
Dr. Fernandes, I presume?
 
the cover letter is just an introduction, nothing more
 
first pass is most likely on presentation/spelling/grammar/obvious loony
 
@thecoshman Now I'm doing it zero-time. I don't have to take classes any more, just take the exams.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I hereby award you an honorary doctorate in American pop culture.
 
3:01 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Work in other time?
 
@DeadMG Yeah.
 
oh, wait, given your sleep sched, I should already know the answer to that question
 
@DeadMG it's your foot in the door, your one shot at not getting shut out before you even get in. you need to sell your self hard and fast
having me go to some web site to look around for stuff is not going to help
 
@DeadMG I've been sleeping about four hours a day lately :S
 
@thecoshman is all about hard and fast
 
3:03 PM
Well, except weekends.
 
what more am I gonna put on there other than that I know C++ and C++11 and have looked into XYZ areas?
 
@EtiennedeMartel 3.2 * 2.5 = 8 out of ten. Would be a B- in the high school I went to in the US :P
 
did the puppy finally screw around too much and have to quit school?
 
@thecoshman With what? Lies?
 
@DeadMG something to back up your claims that you know what you know
 
3:03 PM
@DeadMG don't put too many areas on your resume
 
Four hours? That's pretty excessive.
 
@thecoshman If you can't be bothered to look into that backup, why put it there?
@KillianDS Eh. Nothing more than what I have in my BB repo.
 
@DeadMG It can quickly sound like you to try out many things but get bored quickly and lack perseverance.
 
@DeadMG More specifics about the projects you've done, plus what you can bring to the company (some specific area of expertise perhaps?)
 
@DeadMG Cover letter isn't just telling them more CV/resume information. It's telling them why they want to look at your CV/resume. Convince them that you will be a useful asset to their company.
 
3:04 PM
@DeadMG because you haven't put it there, you have just provided a way to get distracted from sorting out the applicants
 
SMTP, Y U NO SEND 17MB??
 
@thecoshman Do you want me to copy and paste some of my best questions or answers then?
or what?
 
@TonyTheLion ah now, it's nt SMTP that is at fault, it's your mail server
 
@thecoshman mail server uses SMTP, so they both SUCK
 
@SamDeHaan this is what @DeadMG needs to know.
 
3:05 PM
@DeadMG may be, but chances are, they are too long and boring, next cv!
 
@thecoshman so what do you want me to put?
 
@TonyTheLion SMTP is ok, mail servers set up to refuse 'large' emails suck
 
@DeadMG Do you have one project you actually did quite some work on? If you can give a short but good example of how you tackle a problem from start to finish. it's more convincing than "I played with a,b,c,d,e,f,..."
 
@DeadMG Something that is long and short at the same time!
 
There, I just sent an email to my boss with the subject "Let's get subtle" and the message being simply a link to R#'s licensing page.
 
3:06 PM
@DeadMG :P that you have a degree or some work experience
 
@KillianDS Depends on your definition of "finish" :P
 
@EtiennedeMartel Hmm. Subtle.
 
@thecoshman it is meh
 
@thecoshman He doesn't.
 
Thank God my boss has a great sense of humor.
 
3:07 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I know.
 
@EtiennedeMartel That actually has a chance of working :)
 
the job advertisement actually doesn't ask for any.
 
@thecoshman So what's your point?
 
and the salary's quite low and it specifically says "all levels of expertise"
 
@DeadMG you need to bust your balls to make something that can really wow a potential employer
 
3:08 PM
so these guys are not looking for 20yrs experience and 8 shipped products.
 
@DeadMG Sell yourself. Tell them you have bright ideas, a clever character and are handy to be around.
If that's true, of course. Obviously.
 
@DeadMG My favorite is "Entry level, requires 3-5 years experience in... <insert 10 enterprise technologies here>"
 
And step on your ego. That always work.
 
@Collin I know :D
 
@RMartinhoFernandes he needs to get very lucky :P
 
3:08 PM
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, I have done that.
 
Meh, that doesn't help.
 
A degree is equal to about 3-5 years experience in Belgium.
for job hunting.
 
I merely stated that I had a "solid grasp" of C++ and C++11.
not my usual "complete mastery"
 
Ell
anyone here interested in electrical engineering?
 
@thecoshman why? we want to hire starters badly for example (don't know about the required degrees though).
 
3:09 PM
is there a way to "override" a typedef defined in a base?
 
@Ell most BS and worst course in my Bachelor's education.
 
@DeadMG If you're lucky, they'll give you a technical test.
 
@rubenvb what could be slow about searching commit messages? git log --all --oneline | grep -i release ?
 
@Ell I do a certain amount of electrical engineering
 
3:09 PM
@EtiennedeMartel A technical test on C++ I can surely pass with flying colours
 
@DeadMG you need to provide some sort of proof that you you have a solid grasp. Such as this humble game I made...
 
@Ell Technically my job title is electrical engineer, but I'm mostly a software guy
 
@sehe we're talking about GCC's git history. Plus the fact I have to download the whole repo instead of only a single revision's tag.
 
@keithlayne Not to sound like I'm kicking you out, but that does sound like something that would work nicely on the main site :)
 
@KillianDS with out a degree, he is going to be at the bottom of the pile
 
3:10 PM
git fetch brings all tags in for use, which only download once you need em.
 
@EtiennedeMartel that won't be until after they have filtered through the CVs a bit
 
the last "technical" c++ test I took had about 20% questions about c library, the rest "c with objects"
 
@thecoshman And a link to it?
 
@Ell electrical or electronics
 
@thecoshman I know enough guys that got a fairly decent job without an actual degree (similar situations to DeadMG, started but never finished). But you have to take the pay cut in the beginning.
 
Ell
3:10 PM
@thecoshman ...whats the difference? o.O
 
@thecoshman I actually do have a build from earlier that you can play.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes potentially
 
Ell
@Collin I'm interested in the logic of it all but get lost when it comes to capacitance and a load of other things :L
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I get it, you don't have time in your little c++ chat for talk of silly c++. :)
 
if it doesn't SILENTLY FAIL ON YOUR MACHINE, FUCK YOU D3D9
 
3:11 PM
@thecoshman Well, that's what he did.
 
@Ell 240v AC vs 3.5 v dc :P
 
I don't ask questions on SO, it only causes @thecoshman to give irrelevant answers and say TL;DR
 
@Ell Yeah, I can mostly make my way around a schematic, but dealing with power issues is not exactly my forte
 
@keithlayne Buuut it's not a C++ chat. It's a Lounge<C++>
 
@thecoshman 3.5V DC on electronics? About five years ago maybe :P
 
3:12 PM
@SamDeHaan yeah, yeah
....where everything sucks
especially the damn robots
 
Exactly. Except not the robots.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes the chances of a employer going out of there way is slim.
@rubenvb you get my point
 
I will reiterate a point I made long ago: if you're funny, you can ask questions here.
 
@keithlayne what you mean?
 
@thecoshman I don't know about the UK, but IME that's not how it works here.
 
3:12 PM
@thecoshman notice the :P
 
Ell
@thecoshman 3.5 v dc :L
 
whatever
 
@SamDeHaan I see you fear the eventual robot apocalypse
 
Ell
@thecoshman I would call someone working on 240v AC an "electrician"
 
good morning everyone :)
 
3:13 PM
@thecoshman You're walking around in circles!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I am sure it is exactly the same. even with a digree you ahve to prove your self fast
 
@thecoshman They will if the resume/cover letter itself is interesting enough
 
> I intend to put my solid grasp of the C++ language, including some aspects of C++11 at least including the elements present in the latest version of Visual Studio, to good use.
I have intrinsic motivation to learn new things, and I have intrinsic motivation to do a good job. I have explored simple 3D graphics, simulation, and AI, and am in the process of specifying my own language. If you wish to see what I have done for myself, you can view my StackOverflow profile and public BitBucket repository.
I'm probly just gonna go with that
 
@Ell but not an electronics engineer, he's an electrical engineer
 
@keithlayne s/eventual/certain and s/apocalypse/new world order/
 
3:14 PM
@DeadMG I would even try to make the first sentence (which is clear from your CV itself and the requirements of the job) a bit more personal.
 
Ell
@thecoshman I wouldn't call them an "engineer" if they are working on domestic stuff
 
"which I have gained by constant interaction with C++ professionals over three years"?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ...and the standardization of sed as the official world language, apparently
 
Modern C++: If something isn't a template, ask yourself, "why isn't this a template?" Then make it a template. #SeaPlusPlus
2
 
3:16 PM
TEMPLATE ALL THE THINGS.
 
OMG, someone discovered my C++ secret sauce.
 
@thecoshman It's not that simple. You have to pass the first quick glance test, true. But if you pass that odds are good someone will take a closer look to some material you provided, and likely do even a quick web search themselves
 
untill you see that overload resolution is fucked up when you template stuff.
 
@rubenvb not much experience using git, I detect? svn is always slower, even getting a single revision. However, yeah, it sucks that they don't make tags easy to discover
 
3:16 PM
anyway
that cover letter is le done
 
@RMartinhoFernandes regular function vs template function.
 
What about it?
 
Templaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaates!
 
the former wins.
 
As makes sense.
 
3:17 PM
time to move on to the next
 
not to someone not familliar with the whole shebang
but whatever.
 
@KillianDS maybe. that initial first look has to wow FAST
 
I guess I should specialize iterator_traits...would it be bad style to put it all on one line? :)
 
@DeadMG do you have a job in mind for this?
 
I'm sure you have a case where it didn't work as you wanted, but we're not interested in more suffering just because you had a corner case.
 
3:17 PM
yes, it was a specific job
now it's on to the next specific job
 
You should try to get a job at Google.
 
you should try to pick out the skills they are asking for, and show how you have those skills
 
@thecoshman Actually, the advertisement was really bland. There was little there.
but the next specific job wants to talk about 3D rendering
and I did do that thing with the height-variant shader.
 
Urfff. There we go again:
The hint to assign_to_attribute_from_iterators was nice. — pdug 29 mins ago
Not even an upvote. Don't tell he needs 100 rep to upvote or something silly like that
 
wonder if that shit still builds?
 
3:19 PM
@DeadMG standard things are team working and initiative
 
@sehe Upvoting is always on, I think.
 
well, I think that doing a bunch of this stuff on my own bar is some initiative
 
don't get too hung up on the job specific skills, think more about the generic professional skills
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I think I remember ppl saying I can onnly accept
 
@thecoshman It's true, but don't overestimate that :). You hear that a lot, but I've seen some of those piles of resumes, I understand how they go through that fast. You'd be surprised of the crap some people submit. I never had to go initial sort myself, but as soon as one is passed to us I always take quite a close look. I may have to work with this guy/girl, I'd better check it decently.
 
3:20 PM
brb rain
 
@DeadMG not really, every one has to apply for a job.
 
no, I meant, the work in my repo I did on my own
 
why can the lambda return type actually only be deduced when the ret statement is the only one in the lambda?
 
@KillianDS ah, but that is when you are passed one or two in a situation where it's like "do you want to work this wee kid?"
 
3:21 PM
@bamboon Because.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes silly rules. Well, I get it, but you'd expect the own questions to be exempt from this, a whilly-nilly upvoters protection measure
 
That's it.
 
oh, that makes sense
 
@bamboon multiple return statements.
 
@ecatmur Nope, not an issue.
 
3:22 PM
@DeadMG ah, that's not what I mean by initiative
 
@RMartinhoFernandes anyways, thanks anonymous upvoter
 
what initiative do you want from me if not to find things to do and do them on my own which are not rehashes of someone else's work, for example?
 
I'm heading home now, I can take a look over stuff for you if you want @DeadMG, just send me on some sort of link
@DeadMG not needing to be told to do every step one by one. such as automatically taking out the rubbish, even if it's not really your job (with in reason, you don't want to be a push over)
 
@sehe Oh I didn'.
@thecoshman Wut? "I take out my own rubbish".
 
@thecoshman Well, everything I coded I worked out myself or with resources I found myself.
 
3:25 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes rather then just leaving it to mummy all the time
 
@sehe you forked Ambrosia?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes what about [](bool b, S s, T t){ if (b) return s; else return t; }?
 
@DeadMG yeah, that's the sort of thing, but try to break away from everything being about your programming. you are applying to work with other people as well don't forget
any way, I don't want to be stuck here another hour
see ya!
 
@thecoshman I don't care. If you care about that kind of bullshit on a job application, I don't want to work for you.
 
very true
 
3:26 PM
@TonyTheLion many mail systems including gmail still limit mails to about 15-16 MB. you can use dropbox, google drive or microsoft skydrive to share something larger.
 
I need to back out some changes from my repo
 
@CheersandhthAlf ah right
 
@thecoshman Yes, but you missed a part, many of the quick filtered ones (by hr people who don't even know programming) are usually things like "we asked for 20y exp and this kid is 22" or "this resume is 20 pages..." or "this guy is a cook" or "we asked for engineers" or ... . It seldomly happens that you really get ditched for technical knowledge so fast in the process (unless it's very clear), because those people often don't even know how to interpret technical knowledge
 
Because no one will write "I don't take out my own rubbish".
 
@CheersandhthAlf I thought gmail had it limited at around 25mb
 
3:27 PM
And even if your mummy does, what prevents you from writing "I take out my own rubbish"?
It's just bullshit everyone puts there for no gain.
 
you take out your own rubbish??? I have minions for that :P
 
Time you enjoy wasting is not really wasted.
 
<html>
    <head>
        <title>google map test</title>
    </head>
    <body>
        <p>
            Blah</p>
        <iframe
            width="425" height="350"
            frameborder="1"
            scrolling="no"
            marginheight="0" marginwidth="0"
            src="https://maps.google.no/maps/ms?ll=68.697253,14.467278&amp;spn=0.032492,0.131493&amp;t=m&amp;z=13&amp;vpsrc=6&amp;msa=0&amp;msid=203727757060979693368.0004c48f54618cce4fe40"
            >
        </iframe>
        <p>
 
@TonyTheLion Well, my house doesn't have unlimited space, so yeah, I need to do that sometimes.
Also, my screen is hurt.
 
y not work?
 
3:29 PM
hey robot
does you have VS2010 installed?
 
@KillianDS technical knowledge doesn't get filtered until in-house interview; it's possible to pass a phone interview without it.
 
@ecatmur I know, that's what I was trying to tell @thecoshman :)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes oh ok
 
@rubenvb ? huh. I'm married. I'd do no such thing
 
alright, does anyone here have VS2010 and a little tad of time/bandwidth to lend?
 
3:31 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes See, porn surfing isn't useless. I keep telling my wife
@DeadMG Yes, how so
 
@sehe You forked my github Ambrosia project. probably ages ago.
 
@sehe Could you pull my public repo and tell me if the render project builds?
 
@rubenvb Ah, yeah I wanted to give that lexer code a close look. Never did, though
@DeadMG Yeah. Any deps?
 
what is the simplest large number library recommended for prime number decomposition?
 
3:32 PM
uh
GLM and D3D9 SDK
 
@sehe lol. Don't. In your own best interest ;)
 
forgot about deps
 
@Cicada ok, cool. thanks for the info.
 
@Nadal @Mysticial might know.
 
@DeadMG erm is that stock on WinXP64? Should be ok :0
 
3:33 PM
erm, no :P
never mind
I'll go back to university tomorrow and fix it
 
@DeadMG Ok lemme see bout downloads
 
GLM is header-only, so it shouldn't be a problem.
 
does Mercurial include a tool for rolling back only some parts of your repo?
 
Ell
what is glm?
 
3:34 PM
also, yesterday i tried to compile GDK with visual c++. it was missing a lot. and it didn't compile.
 
@DeadMG yeah. the tool is you
 
lol
 
seriously, on git: subtree merge (but that is also pushing it). Otherwise, just get specific version of a subtree and commit with 'rollback of path/to/dir to revxxxx' comment
 
@CheersandhthAlf Do you mean GMP?
GIMP is an image manipulation program.
 
3:35 PM
no, GDK, the lowest level of GTK
i found it uses both Pango and Cairo, and they were not bundled. but even so did not compile
 
@CheersandhthAlf you mean GLib.
 
no, GDK uses GLib
 
woah d3d9 sdk is still going to download for 14 minutes
 
@CheersandhthAlf Oh, I was referring to you suggesting GIMP as a large number library for something.
 
GDK (GIMP Drawing Kit) is a computer graphics library that acts as a wrapper around the low-level drawing and windowing functions provided by the underlying graphics system. Originally developed on the X Window System for the GIMP image manipulation program, GDK lies between the X server and the GTK+ library, handling basic rendering such as drawing primitives, raster graphics (bitmaps), cursors, fonts, as well as window events and drag-and-drop functionality. Like GTK, GDK is licensed under the GNU Lesser General Public License. GDK is an important part of GTK+'s portability. Since low...
 
3:37 PM
@sehe It's like 550MB :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes oh
 
what the.. flux
 
@CheersandhthAlf then "lowest level" is a misnomer.
 
oh, nevermind.. I'm stupid
 
sorry about that
 
3:38 PM
anyway
that thing about that other job I'm applying for
 
Ell
I'm still extremely confused about linux and X servers and whatnot. I don't know whats a drawing library, what a window manager is, what an x server is, what a graphics driver does, what a desktop is or any of that stuff
 
my idea was since at least 50% of GTK code is like pure GDK, why not use GDK itself only
but it did not compile
 
lol
GTK is a mess of circular dependencies.
 
Depend on all the dependants!
 
starting with gettext.
and pkg-config
 
3:39 PM
The GNU Multiple Precision Arithmetic Library (GMP) is a free library for arbitrary-precision arithmetic, operating on signed integers, rational numbers, and floating point numbers. There are no practical limits to the precision except the ones implied by the available memory in the machine GMP runs on (operand dimension limit is 231 bits on 32-bit machines and 237 bits on 64-bit machines). GMP has a rich set of functions, and the functions have a regular interface. The basic interface is for C but wrappers exist for other languages including C++, C#, OCaml, Perl, PHP, and Python. In the ...
 
and
 
^ Sorry about the "I"
 
I'm gonna completely waste my time by applying a job way ahead of my league that was posted today
 
@DeadMG go for it!
 
@DeadMG Nothing wrong with that, honestly
 
3:40 PM
well
I figure I might get lucky
 
You might be surprised
 
anyways
cover letter #2 ..
 
@DeadMG I got my previous job like that.
 
lol
 
They liked me and offered me a different position that was a better match for my skills.
Something like that.
 
3:44 PM
I got my current job by accepting an offer after an internship.
 
well
three applications in one day is OK
the unemployment benefit people only ask for six every two weeks, I think.
 
I got my current job by totally bluffing my way into a small c++ gig and ended up getting hired by a competitor who scouted me while I was on that job. That was in 1998 and I'm still with the same company
I fired my the original employer within the 'trial period'. They were loose canons in a startup and didn't know a thing about keeping employees :)
 
lol
 
@DeadMG Ermpppfff. May I remind you "you don't need a reason to do well at a task" ! :) You are "intrinsically motivated". Obviously you exceed the minimum requirements
 
@DeadMG Oh you guys have that bullcrap too? They have to prove they applied for N jobs or they lose the money?
 
3:47 PM
heh
@RMartinhoFernandes Yep
 
Here many just apply to jobs they don't have a chance in hell.
 
@sehe Well, I'm sure as hell not going to skip applying for C++ jobs just because I only need 6/fortnight.
I'm just saying that it will make my life easier in that regard.
to have applied for three already
 
@DeadMG Yeah I got that part too. Can't resist highlighting the other potential implications though
 
Ell
@RMartinhoFernandes why is that bullcrap?
 
@Ell Because people just apply to random jobs they know they won't get.
That requirement doesn't really do anything.
 
Ell
3:51 PM
Oh right, I thought you were suggesting that a minimum number of applications shouldn't apply
 
Still downloading 20secs
 
sbi
@thecoshman Thanks!
 
right
gonna email my father telling him I failed my course, which is totally not news at all to anyone
 
Installing D3D9 SDK (thank god I'm on XP SP2, since SP3 wouldn't be compatible :))
 
sbi
@sehe That came in via Kevlin Henney (a rather well-known British software consultant).
 
3:54 PM
@sbi Aha. That exploinz
 
I know I've posted this before, but I just ran into it again and it's still hilarious.
 
@DeadMG which repo? So i can get some forking/cloning going?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes very nice
 
hmmm
this job I'm applying to is about 3D graphics
how much detail do I want to go into on my cover letter about the experiments I did?
 
3:57 PM
Speaking of 3D graphics, is there any way to get a DirectDraw surface from a Direct3D 11 texture?
I know this was possible in Direct3D 9, but in 11 I can't seem to find any documentation (or if its even supported) on how to do this.
 
hmmmm
I don't know
DirectDraw is like, really deprecated
so it's possible they ditched it
 
Appears that's probably what they did
I liked how you could create a Graphics (GDI+) around a texture before
And draw to it using GDI+
Doesn't seem possible anymore though
 
AFAIK, you can share surfaces between any Windows rendering technology that runs on Vista, but IDK if DirectDraw is new enough to take advantage of that
 

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