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12:00 AM
@crasic It's not particularly harmful either though. Just just have to drink some Brawndo (It's got electrolytes!)
 
12:35 AM
@crasic That isn't true. I routinely consume large quantities of DI and 18 mega ohm water with no adverse effects. I suspect its a good way to get salt out of your system.
Also no off taste, all of you fucking normies are drinking water with off tastes
Dude, once you've gone pure there is no way you're going back
 
1:08 AM
@Mikhail If you want to "get salt out of your system" I would recommend a juice cleanse.
It is true that DI water is not toxic, However substituting DI water for normal water is detrimental to your health, occasional consumption is not toxic, but drinking DI water as a "pure" water substitute is asking for certain rare anemias
luckily however, our food supply is heavily fortified and as such generally speaking you will not feel any ill effects as long as you eat a varied diet that supplies the trace elements needed for life.
 
2:01 AM
@Mysticial sigh If people could stop finding (or making) security vulnerabilities, that would be great.
 
think about it - study medicine kind of implies becoming a doctor and not becoming a pharmacist
 
3:03 AM
I think delivery dude knows exactly where I live ... or the person with my name lives
 
3:17 AM
hi there
 
 
2 hours later…
 
1 hour later…
6:50 AM
Good morning.
Some memes are awesome.
 
nwp
7:44 AM
Nope. They are all garbage tier humor, even worse than puns.
 
Morning :)
 
I ordered two spare batteries for the autonomous toy car and I can confirm that it was a battery problem.
but the track I have is too small for the car, so I need to buy a large tarp and make a larger track
 
8:02 AM
Wales confirmed /o/
 
but because better battery, it's also likely the car might actually injure a chicken because it can go at a much faster speed :(
also chickens have grown so they are much bigger now than 2 months ago :x
 
so they may be strong enough to not get injured
 
true
ITT faster car vs bigger chicken
 
8:45 AM
void{} might very soon become valid
I love the ever-changing initialization rules of the language despite "uniform initialization" x)
There are always fun examples in core defect reports
int *ptr;
const int *const &f() {
    // returns a copy of ptr, not a reference to it
    return ptr;
}
well, actually returns a reference to a temporary which is a copy of ptr
 
nwp
@Morwenn How is that a defect? That is what I would expect.
You can't return a reference to ptr because the types don't match, so you must create a temporary copy.
 
> The rules for reference-related types should say that T is reference-related to U if U* can be converted to T* by a qualification conversion.
I would expect to be able to add const in those places and still get a reference to the original pointer tbh v0v
 
nwp
I guess that would be a cool new feature, but not a defect.
 
It's priority 0, so it will likely be resolved as a defect before C++20
 
nwp
I listened to the cppcast about regular void and they were discussing how sizeof(void)==1 and sizeof(void)==0 are both problematic for various reasons. I wonder what they decided.
My bet is on "sizeof(void)==1 but with something similar to empty base class optimization so that struct S{ int i; void v}; sizeof(S)==sizeof(int);".
@Morwenn What about int and const unsigned int &? Temporary or reference to existing object?
 
9:01 AM
@nwp BLASPHEMY!
I have seen the DOOT video 10 times now.
 
nwp
I tried to watch it once now. I made it to 44 seconds before giving up on the shitty animation and lack of content.
Actually I don't mind the shitty animations. I enjoy south park. But I do mind the lack of anything interesting happening.
 
@nwp temporary, there is a int/unsigned conversion, it's not just about the qualifiers
 
Just wrote this mail on "fun" AVX issues, might be of general interest https://gist.github.com/rygorous/32bc3ea8301dba09358fd2c64e02d774 TL;DR: VEX encoding and new 128b instrs are reasonably easy to deploy (other than build issues), 256b+ vector stuff is _hard_ to ship for libs due to power management.
/cc @Mysticial
 
9:18 AM
@nwp you can't have sizeof(foo) < 1 for any existing foo so sizeof(void) would most likely be 1 too
 
nwp
@Morwenn Yeah, but at the same time people want sizeof(S)==sizeof(int) to hold.
 
maybe it's time for an explicit stateless member field optimization?
I really don't like that the empty baseclass optimization is the only way to deal with empty member fields
 
@nwp yes, so void will be an empty class as you proposed, just put [[no_unique_address]] in front of it (or make the attribute implicit for void)
 
nwp
Ooooh, [[no_unique_address]] is an awesome solution.
 
yes :p
 
nwp
9:25 AM
Except that the "If you remove all attributes valid code stays valid with the same behavior" doesn't hold anymore, I think.
 
What's the number of usernames and passwords do you guys have: 1-5? 5-10? 10+? How can one not forgetting passwords??
 
It does: adding the attribute lifts the guarantee about the size, so you can't rely on it
So you have the same guarantees about relying on the size whether or not the attribute is ignored
 
nwp
But the point of every object being at least size 1 is that every non-polymorphic object has a unique address. S sa[2]; would already have &sa[0].v == &sa[1].i; which is not supposed to happen.
I guess you would need to change it to [[maybe_no_unique_address]] so that you can't rely on the unique address but also cannot rely on no unique address.
@TelKitty That problem has been solved. Just use a password manager. 1 password to remember, unlimited username/password combinations used and stored.
 
@nwp the attribute is for non-static data members, it won’t affect arrays
 
> Indicates that this data member need not have an address distinct from all other non-static data members of its class. This means that if the member has an empty type (e.g. stateless Allocator), the compiler may optimise it to occupy no space, just like if it were an empty base.
may, so no guarantee when the attribute isn't ignored
 
9:34 AM
@nwp & hack one, hack all!
making it convenient for the hackers
 
nwp
What if someone does std::cout << ((void*)&sa[0].v == (void*)&sa[1].i);? Without [[no_unique_address]] it's guaranteed to print 0, with it it may print 1 or 0, so you have an attribute that changes the program behavior.
Or would you say the comparison is invalid, so the rule doesn't apply?
 
@nwp no, that is not how it works
 
One you've written [[no_unique_address]] in your code, you've give up guarantees mah boi
 
nwp
@Morwenn Isn't that what I wrote?
 
that being said, you can construct an example that is similar in spirit with [[no_unique_address]] whatever a_data_member, a_data_member_also;; in which case the answer is 'the two data members are of the same type so don’t worry about it' (aka it’s the same situation as with empty base objects today)
 
9:38 AM
@nwp Basically attributes are not about not changing the semantics of the program, they are about "if your program is guaranteed to work with the attribute, it's also guaranteed to work when the attribute is ignored"
look at contracts: they are attributes and do change the semantics of the program since the program might terminate if the contract isn't ignored
while it might still run if the attribute is ignored
 
nwp
Ok, I got it. With the attribute it is allowed to print 0 or 1. Without the attribute it therefore must print 0 or 1, which it does, so not problem.
 
that's pretty much how all attributes work: if present they make your program work in fewer scenarios while allowing more optimizations
you could say that [[deprecated]] changes the behaviour of a program if you log the compiler errors to a file and the compiled program reads said file and expects it not to contain [[deprecated]] logs x)
 
nwp
@TelKitty If someone can break into your system and log the password manager password you are screwed anyway. Mildly inconveniencing the hacker will not save you, so the damage that a password manager can do is negligible.
@Morwenn Meh, the standard does not make any guarantees about what a compiler can print, so you can't rely on that either.
 
10:07 AM
I wonder whether intelligent key loggers can figure out your password mangers password, key logger is not terribly hard to make so I heard.
 
I've got my boat ticket for Plymouth /o/
 
nwp
@TelKitty You can just get the application name of where the user types text into, so that part is pretty easy. The difficulty is in getting people to install your keylogger.
 
10:37 AM
and intercepting/peeking the clipboard is also pretty easy
 
 
1 hour later…
11:56 AM
@nwp I think I am hearing about this the fist time, too.
 
 
4 hours later…
3:55 PM
Trees are greening up
 
 
4:16 PM
Anybody know what to do when groupadd foo doesn't do anything?
 
nwp
sudo groupadd foo?
 
i'm on root
`groupadd foo`
`groups`
`root bin daemon sys adm disk wheel floppy audio tape video`
didn't do anything...
didn't get any errors..
 
nwp
I have no clue but I would guess that maybe you need to groupcreate foo first or something.
Or maybe see if groupadd --help is helpful.
 
4:51 PM
I find it funny you told me to RTFM
but also there isn't a groupcreate
idk, maybe if I press enter harder it will work?
fuck, groups doesn't do what I want
 
 
3 hours later…
sbi
7:48 PM
So the SO chat has got a CoC now? Sounds good. Where is it?
Also: hi.
 
hi
 
nwp
@sbi Here, but it's less fun than this (that).
 
sbi
8:07 PM
Wow. This counts as a CoC here? Oh well.
 
8:18 PM
@sbi For more needless harassment see -> meta.stackexchange.com/q/309645/172500
 
 
1 hour later…
sbi
9:29 PM
@Mikhail What do you mean, "harassment"?
 
 
2 hours later…
11:42 PM
@Mikhail Has this room been in trouble recently? I think last time was a while ago.
 

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