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12:39 AM
@Mgetz Looking at some of the single-FMA SKUs, yeah, there's really no point at all: en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/xeon_silver/4116
Non-AVX: 2.4 GHz
AVX: 2.1 GHz
AVX512: 1.4 GHz
For floating-point, AVX512 isn't going to gain you anything on the single-FMA chips. To put more salt in the wound, let's drop the frequency from 2.1 GHz to 1.4 GHz. lol
 
 
2 hours later…
3:08 AM
same old crew I see.
 
 
5 hours later…
Ven
8:31 AM
@sehe 0/10 writing that lambda explicitly instead of composing funkshion
oh you actually do it with phoenix
using boost::assign::operator+=;
deep concern
 
8:48 AM
see the comment
The only "purpose" was to approximate code similarity in c++03
 
Ven
@sehe No no, I like it. I feel like it has a Perl vibe to it.
 
Concurred
 
9:42 AM
@sehe #include <cstdio> is extra
maybe you wanted to write std::printf, like in the original question?
 
9:58 AM
@Mikhail I didn't want to (otherwise you'd see it), but I forgot the remove the header
I tend not to remove stuff like that because I'd have to update the live links too)
 
5
Q: Sleep affecting which virtual member function is called by std::thread?

TechDragonI am unsure if this is expected behavior in c++11. Here is an example of what I found. #include <iostream> #include <thread> using namespace std; class A { public: virtual void a() = 0; thread t; A() : t(&A::a, this) {} virtual ~A() { t.join(); } }; class B : public...

^ So, I think the answer is only partially correct. Even in debug mode, MSVC 2017 optimizes the program into (the expected) crash no matter how long you wait. Looks like UB to me.
 
Of course
 
Well, its not a race condition, its straight up UB? MSVC (under debug build) is able to devirtualize everything and reduces the code to the desired error...
On the other hand, neither clang nor gcc make that change, only MSVC appears to...
 
10:34 AM
@Puppy what's the story with Wide btw?
 
11:05 AM
@JerryCoffin I didn't even try to evaluate all the claims, nor am I an inter parte review board
 
 
1 hour later…
12:07 PM
0
Q: Creating an OS totally from scratch in C/C++ and assembly (if needed)

Master Dark NightI don't want to write next windows or mac or linux I'm just trying to write a whole operating system on my own I know it would have a lot of errors , warnings and initially it wont work But I want to write my own OS using c programming language At most I'll go to c++ and lastly upto assembly if n...

Too broad much? /cc @Mysticial
 
 
1 hour later…
1:22 PM
@Mgetz My guess is that you didn't fully understand even one claim. If you had, I'd have expected at least an "oh, I see what you did there", or perhaps "is that what you really intended to say?" Let me describe the part where I contributed. If you read carefully, you'll find that what it's saying is that the floating buffers are released before you're done using them.
We get away with that, because we're using quad-port memory (2R, 2W). So what we do is start writing a packet into the buffer, and typically a clock later, we start reading it back out, and sending it to the destination port. That uses use one read and one write port. Then as soon as we're a few words into the packet, we can signal that the buffer is free. It can then be reallocated, and we start writing a second packet into the same buffer.
 
it's basically a ring buffer at the bytelevel with very specific sync requirements
you know that you will have read the remaining data in the previous packet before the writer will have trampled it
 
@ratchetfreak Yeah, sort of. My contribution was basically noting that we can "release" the buffer before we're done using it, and still meet the sync requirements.
 
it does require that write cannot write faster than the reader can read
 
@ratchetfreak True--if you get even one clock out of sync, you can break things. Actually, in real life we leave more room between packets than that, so it could get out of sync by several clocks without breaking things. Not really much reason to do otherwise--we only have quad port memory, so we can only have pieces of two packets in a single buffer at any given time. To support pieces of three packets at a time, we'd need hex-port memory (and four would need 8-port memory, etc.)
 
@JerryCoffin dumb question: why not use the same clock?
if you ASIC it you should be able to do that
 
1:33 PM
@Mgetz I'm not sure what you mean. There is only one clock throughout.
Any "out of sync" would happen only if (for example) there was a stall when you attempted to write a word to an output port.
 
It would seem like a clock sync issue is the major threat, If you design the hardware MIPS style (e.g. open pipeline, you can literally count each hardware step) then having a single clock should remove the need for any sync issues
@JerryCoffin IIRC IP provides the correct response on that: just drop the incoming packet
 
or more abstractly you are using the buffer as a delay line but instead of using a shift register you use a buffer and offset the reads and writes relative to each other.
 
Now that you mention it, I'd be very curious to see how they implemented the original ARPANet routers
I wouldn't be surprised if they did something similar
 
@Mgetz It provides a response that's correct within its scope. We're working in a different scope--among other things, the hardware guarantees packet delivery for essentially anything short of a wire being cut or something on that order.
@ratchetfreak Yup, pretty much.
 
@Mgetz most likely with actual delay lines
 
1:40 PM
@ratchetfreak no I think they were actually digital
they were digital but they were store and forward, I can't find specifics on the hardware but they appear to only have been able to handle one packet at a time
e.g. if a new packet came in they'd just drop it
again a bit of conjecture based on ancient documentation
 
@Mgetz I doubt it. This only becomes interesting when you have something like a switch fabric that can route multiple packets simultaneously, and most of them didn't.
 
1 min ago, by Mgetz
they were digital but they were store and forward, I can't find specifics on the hardware but they appear to only have been able to handle one packet at a time
From what I could tell they assumed the router wouldn't have to be able to handle more than one packet at a time, but the copper might. They tested with a 20k foot long copper telephone line
 
2:41 PM
 
3:25 PM
@Borgleader Sounds ambitious. :)
 
@Mgetz The ACK window in TCP certainly takes for granted that there can/will be more than one packet on the wire at a time. Virtually no other reason to have it.
 
@JerryCoffin I think they were even more conscious of it back then given delay line memory. It was mostly a question of "can we handle it when it gets here" and "Will it still be usable"
 
@Mgetz Delay line memory was ancient history long before ARPANET started. The primary difference between ARPANET-era RAM and current RAM was that it wasn't synchronous then.
 
@JerryCoffin I think it was still around although in limited use about that time.
the people on the ARPANet team would have been familiar with it for sure
 
@Mgetz At least some were undoubtedly familiar with its existence--but only as a piece of history. You'd have an easier time finding a new black and white CRT television today than delay line memory in 1969.
 
3:38 PM
@Mysticial I removed your "MIT Scratch" tag since you're probably not going to use that language for your OS.
 
@JerryCoffin I wasn't even alive back then so I can't say
 
I choked
 
@Mgetz You died and came back to life some time later?
 
@Mgetz It probably helps to keep in mind that for the most part, delay line memory was never actually a mass-produced item. There was no equivalent to going on Digikey and ordering up a few dozen of them. Only a few computers ever used them, and each of them was basically a hand-built one of a kind device.
 
3:59 PM
@Mysticial I'd almost ask if there was a point to AVX512...
 
@ratchetfreak I get 60% speedup single-threaded and ~30% multi-threaded over AVX2. Last time I did an Amdahl's Law analysis, about 90% of the CPU-time is 512-bit vectorized with the remaining 10% not vectorized at all.
This is includes the clock speed throttle. If they ran at the same speed, the speedup of AVX512 would even larger than the #s I gave above.
 
ah it's still a speedup just not as large as the width would let you believe
and the throttle is a bit overeaver for non dedicated avx512 loads
 
When I did a single-thread analysis at the same clock speed, some of the inner loops got perfect 2x speed. Others (the ones with longer dependency chains) were significantly less than 2x.
Initially I blamed it on the longer latency of the 2nd FMA. But it couldn't explain the entire difference.
So I suspect that the size of the AVX512 register file smaller than the AVX2 register file. IOW, it's the same amount of silicon, but AVX512 probably has only half the # of renamed registers by combining pairs of 256-bit registers. So it runs out earlier.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:48 PM
@Mysticial When I open that transcript link, I get three notifications from ESET that "https://pomf.pyonpyon.moe" has been blocked. What the hell is wrong with anime chatrooms.
 
@EtiennedeMartel We have a bot that randomly posts images. Some of those images are from domains that tend to get blocked.
 
6:24 PM
To call Stack Overflow, a respected and valuable software development resource, a source of “considerable suffering” due to “elitism” from @spolsky and @anildash is just about the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a long time. 🙄 https://medium.com/@Aprilw/suffering-on-stack-overflow-c46414a34a52
 
6:43 PM
> My compassion for them, though, does not excuse rude behavior.
Note that the "rude behavior" that makes people "afraid to post" is aimed at people doing the things that the "experts" are seeking to discourage. As a second point, is asking a question that will cause pain to people answering rude or not? If so, why excuse the rude behavior of the people asking the questions? I suppose we can use the rule of "punching down" -- the (incompetent new programmer asking the poor question) should be coddled?
 
@Mysticial Smells like disaster ;)
 
7:05 PM
@wilx this is a sheltered "I'm-a-special-butterfly" opinion of which I don't agree with
the first few questions I've ever posted, I think back retrospectively and realize how uninformative they are. I write questions in the hope that people can answer them
there's millions of people using the site, and I don't think any of the main contributors have time nor patience to single you out and candy-coat what you're missing to help them help you
Yeah, it was "considerable suffering", but the best lessons are learned through "considerable suffering"
 
@wilx jezis ti ludia sa fakt nudia niektori
 
@ScarletAmaranth Spíše se mi zdá, že se snaží propagovat svoji konzultantskou firmu.
 
@wilx no ked zalozis "compassionate coding" tak ti nepomoze propaganda ziadna :D
 
:))
 
nwp
@OneRaynyDay Plenty of people are not ok with that and quit the site instead.
@OneRaynyDay That's essentially what the Q&A room does.
 
7:21 PM
@nwp I wasn't aware
but I remember last time I frequented it, you were the person answering all the questions
so I have respect for you man
 
nwp
It varies. Usually there is at least someone. All of them loungers I think.
Looks like I have 7.4k messages there and milleniumbug has me beat with 11.4k.
 
Who is DJ Avicii? He dies and it is all over the news here. I have never heard of him before today.
 
ahh yeah it was you and milleniumbug. I remember
@wilx Avicii is one of the people who pioneered electronic music, so people in their teens/20's grew up to his music
 
@OneRaynyDay You can't pioneer electronic music in 2018. That train is gone since like 1970s.
 
7:39 PM
@wilx apologies for the broad term, I'll prepend a modern behind that
 
@OneRaynyDay :)
 
In any case of the two mjaeckel and aprilw, mjaeckel is more wrong.
 
8:04 PM
Funny this would come up now. I walked around campus this afternoon and looked over the lecture halls and the lab rooms and I thought, this is My place; this place is mine. This is where I live to do what I want to do.
SO and this chat has taught me a lot but it can never be, and shouldn't be a cosy/lazy home.
 
8:35 PM
I have to say that I do not understand how SO excludes women or people of colour
in fact, it's really pretty fuckin' hard to tell if you're a woman or a person of colour when all I can see is your username
7
 
8:47 PM
@Puppy we need to use a variation on polish notation for SO nicknames! <sex>_<skin color>_<age>_<username>
optionally you can add religious beliefs and political views
 
 
1 hour later…
10:12 PM
Only in category theory would you get a diagram like this. I love it.
@nwp I never candy-coat my stuff there, methinks
I don't see many other do that either (although the well-meaning encouragement from Mr. Dunning to Mr. Kruger is amusing and insufferable at the same time)
It's almost as if the Q&A room was co-opted by people with some experience in the lounge (what happens if you let the vampires dictate the climate)
@ScarletAmaranth I call myself "std-hung-arian-nick-polar-bear"
 
10:59 PM
@sehe You really should boost that nick some.
 
Just insert "well-" in a position of your choosing
 
You have the right idea, proper coding is best done in the calmness of water. With a green cone on the head.
I am guilty of
 
11:26 PM
This one is ok, but I'm not a fan of tons of stickers
(random image from image search)
Lowering the aesthetic value
 
I just noticed this on the homepage:
Really? Are they trying to get swamped by applicants?
 
maybe they mistyped and assumed it's a monthly salary :P
 
Oh, ahaha I just noticed that the second ad is at the opposite extreme. haha
 
the second one is suspicious too, mentions C++, Java and .NET, it's as if either they don't know what they want, or they want to hire one programmer when they should hire three
 
@Mysticial They have the stl tag. Nobody can decipher stl unless you are an absolute expert.
 
11:31 PM
@milleniumbug Crossover is known to be a shitty company to work for.
 
$200k is a lot of ks
 
I don't know about the 1st one. But they actually reached out to me in person. I decided not to follow through with it since I'm quite happy where I am right now.
 
"I am unable to entertain offers below $400k"
Galaxy Note 5 screen cracked, all my contacts on are on there. How do I recover it?
 
@Mikhail Give it to a shop that knows how to recover that kinda stuff.
 
Buy a note 7 and transfer it over electronically. If you don't want to wait that long, try overclocking the note 7. Though it will make it hotter.
 
11:34 PM
You can't take that crap on airplanes
Also the note 7 sells for more than my rent
 
-Like Mystical said. Overclock the Note 7.
 
So, Note 7s are selling on ebay for like $200, should I get one and not tell TSA?
Anyways, I was going to hang out with people. Now I have no way to contact them, and will probably spend the rest of the night making Qt widgets :-(
 
11:51 PM
@Mikhail Most of these "upper-tier" positions are usually done by recruiter or personal connections. From what I've heard, posting ads with such numbers into a public place like this is just asking to get swamped by unqualified applications who are drawn in by the money.
Though I imagine it could still work if there was a very stringent automated vetting system.
 
I've seen many senior/manager computer vision jobs advertised on SO that pay around 200k
 
But not 400k...
 

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