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7:00 PM
they all do
 
sorry AVX512
 
there we go. yeah...
 
in that case I'd say that benchmark is completely useless because almost zero software uses AVX512 yet
 
That's why they use multiple benchmarks and do some sort of averaging across all of them.
 
eh if I was going to use your PI cruncher to test I would explicitly force it to use one set of common instructions
I think it's telling that steam HW survey isn't even looking for AVX2 or AVX512 yet
 
7:05 PM
On my gentoo system all the packages I give a fuck about use AVX512
 
@Mikhail yes because you compiled them with -mavx512
but on everybody else's system they don't
 
This one is even more telling. 8-core Skylake X vs. 8-core Ryzen refresh.
 
@Mgetz A more serious obstacle to adoption was that until, recently, Windows didn't have AVX 512 support.
 
And that 8700K is 6-core no AVX512.
@Mikhail I can't test that because Windows 10 seems to support it out of the box. And Windows 7/8 won't work on Skylake X.
 
7:08 PM
@Mikhail yeah it helps if the kernel knows it needs to save the registers across context switches
 
I mean Windows will trap into an invalid instruction
 
@Mikhail yeah you need to turn them on
which the OS won't do unless it's ready to support them
 
Actually, I'm confused as the underlying mechanism here - because the instruction is valid. So, how does the CPU know the OS isn't using AVX512?
 
or it's windows 7x64 supporting AVX in 32bit mode
@Mikhail when you boot a CPU all the extensions SSE, AVX etc are turned off. You have to set a CFLAGS bit to enable them
 
@Mikhail There's a control register that the OS needs to set to allow the CPU to execute them.
 
7:10 PM
Oh, so they are off by default. That makes sense...
 
yeah
 
@Mikhail the idea being that it allows the OS to say "yeah I don't support this"
because there are places where an invalid instruction causes really really bad things to happen
see my example of windows 7x64 in 32bit mode
you can't use AVX there, because the OS will slice the registers
and they have no intention of fixing it
well you can, but you can only use the parts corresponding to SSE
and even then weird things may happen
 
There should be an open research paper on optimization x86 binaries before execution
 
@Mikhail in what sense?
 
For example, convert AVX256 to AVX512, or at least insert code paths with alignment checks
 
7:15 PM
@Mikhail may not work for all architectures
 
x86
 
more importantly does the code itself support that
 
It does if you insert an alignment check and then branch, some compilers actually do that
 
@Mikhail not if the code doesn't need nor want 256 or 512 bit wide registers
why would I waste the bus bandwidth
 
What is a case where avx 256 is working but the code wouldn't benefit from avx 512?
 
7:18 PM
@Mikhail 4x4 matrix multiply at double precision
 
Why?
 
Reading between the lines, Mikhail is right since you can use 256-bit AVX512.
 
AVX 512 could actually slow that down by causing a throttle and bus slowdown
@Mysticial yeah it's a bad example as you can basically do it insanely fast with AVX512
but not everything needs or wants 512bit wide vectors. Encryption is actually a good example
 
The only real downside of AVX512 is that you need to push those registers on context switches
 
@Mikhail aaand there is a CPU throttle
 
7:20 PM
that's shared with AVX256
 
I can't speak to that I thought that was AVX512 only
 
There's a number of places in my Pi program where I need to do full-vector transposes. While there is still a benefit at 512-bit, it's well into the diminishing returns. The only thing that saves it that there are 32 registers to avoid spilling. Since a 16 x 16 transpose will certainly spill 16 registers. Whereas an 8 x 8 via AVX2 has no issues.
 
anything that is memory heavy may do better at 256 as well due to cache issues
 
@Mikhail There's two levels of throttling. AVX, and AVX512. If you use any "heavy" AVX, it will throttle down. If you use any "heavy" AVX512, it will throttle even further.
Typical offsets are -300 MHz for AVX and -700 MHz for AVX512.
 
fuck
 
7:24 PM
yeah IMHO AVX 512 is interesting but hard to use practically outside of some special cases
 
I guess one other feature of AVX 512 is that the additional circuitry acts to help distribute heat
 
you can still use the 32 registers though
but I doubt most applications will for quite awhile
 
I don't think the applications are specialized, image processing, or even your audio driver could use AVX. But with poor OS + compiler support, we'll be waiting for a while. But my Gentoo systems seem to benefit from this stuff, by a few percentage points on my own code.
 
@Mikhail This is definitely true. Given a fixed temperature ceiling, I can pull a higher wattage with AVX512 than with normal code since it's more distributed.
@Mikhail What pisses me off is that the Intel compiler itself seems to have a tiny bit of AVX in it.
So when I'm compiling, all 14 cores spend their time bouncing back and forth between 4.7 GHz and 4.0 GHz since I've manually set a -700 MHz offset for AVX.
But it uses it very lightly. Just enough to make it throttle, but not enough to actually offset the throttle.
And I can't run AVX @ 4.7 GHz the system will melt under a "real" AVX load.
MSVC on the other hand is well behaved. All 14 cores stay pinned at 4.7 GHz.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:46 PM
@Mgetz Nah. It's always possible it isn't valid--but if there's actual prior art, I'm not aware of it (and I did at least some looking).
 
Depending on the resources of your PC, 10 minutes could almost be "still reasonable". If you detail what "everything I'm supposed to" actually entails (obviously, you didn't get very far) and what it means "you're still starting" (staring?) we might be of more help/reassurance. Voting as unclear-what-is-being-asked — sehe 22 secs ago
 
@Mikhail I'm not sure (and you probably wouldn't use it for this anyway), but I can sort of imagine something like an implementation of AES 256 that could benefit from operating on 256-bit chunks, but would be serialized enough that it wouldn't benefit from AVX 512.
 
except that you can do two 256 clunks, to mention crypto fast paths (aka AESENC)
 
@Mikhail Depends. There are modes that are designed to help parallelism, but some modes (e.g., CFB, CBC) make it hard to take much advantage of parallelism, except to process two or more entirely separate streams. But yes, AESENC was what I was thinking of when I said "and you probably wouldn't use it for this anyway".
 
10:45 PM
1
A: Is there a one-line way to call a lambda function on a collection?

seheHere's a sampling of range libraries: Range V3 Live On Wandbox #include <range/v3/all.hpp> #include <iostream> #include <cstdio> using namespace std::string_literals; using namespace ranges::v3; using std::vector; int main() { auto print = [](auto const& v) { std::cout << v << "\n"; }; ...

A pretty decent Boost wank job :/
 
11:31 PM
UIUC makes international news again:
 
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