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3:00 PM
it's the fun of making a networked game
 
@ScarletAmaranth Yes, we do.
 
making it work :Đ
 
@DeadMG Well. You can always generate one half of the map, then mirror it.
 
It's space, it's not like terrain is going to matter much anyway.
 
3:00 PM
Or one quarter of the map and then mirror it ^^
 
may I suggest some design notes get wrote down
 
user50049
Has anyone here per chance taken the test to qualify as a developer for the Nao robot dev program?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Depending on the economic systems, that does not actually guarantee balance at all.
 
@DeadMG Hmm. Yeah, we need to think about how macro works first.
 
OMG macros are evil1
 
3:01 PM
I didn't think about it too much, beyond having a few basic qualities
 
@TimPost Nope. I've heard a bit about it, though
 
We need a cool codename.
 
Dark Sky
 
lol, cool codename.
It's a codename, it doesn't matter.
 
Codename: The Lounge ^^
 
3:02 PM
Wasn't there a game called DarkStar? :D
 
You need a cool final name.
 
It was that yellow magic ship
 
Our little pet project games design doc can be played with here
 
Hey, it's much quicker to just yell the codename than say "prototype sci-fi RTS we make for fun"
 
3:03 PM
@EtiennedeMartel PSFRWMF.
You may not have enough tongues to pronounce it, though.
 
@rubenvb Oh, never heard of it, but still
 
user50049
@Cicada I did too, heard that it was extremely difficult.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I'm not Cthulu.
 
Codename Carbon-12?
ahahah
 
"Cthulhu".
 
3:04 PM
@DeadMG first hit on google :) I hadn't heard of it either, but the name sounded familiar and unoriginal
 
Alright, the random word generator shat: "Cryostat"
 
Isotope
Isotopia
 
@RMartinhoFernandes looks like 'poos quormph'
 
It's entertaining how all the shit games take the good names
 
I have spent some time thinking of several names before, projects and in-game characters. I'm not going to spend the sporadic good one I come up with here. I'm not creative enough :)
 
3:05 PM
Who is the red-texted guy talking unit design :D ?
 
I enjoyed the game Star Control
 
Codename doesn't have to be anything magical, it could be just Lounge.
 
@TimPost You could buy one if you have the money
 
Project L.
 
Just call it Codename already
 
3:06 PM
Project Cicada
 
No. Rejected
 
@rubenvb Just keep a list of random words for codenames.
It's a codename.
 
Project Codename-
 
Als
Project C++ lol
 
nah
 
3:07 PM
I don't care... It can be called Dual Quaternion :Đ
 
no anti-shield weapons, that defies the point of shields
 
Just give it something
 
Project Failure.
Project Success.
 
@Als (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
 
Project Successful Failure.
 
3:07 PM
Project NULL, NULL-name
 
Als
@Neil uhm its a language?
 
Charstar
voidstar
ahahah
 
Project NullPointerException thrown on line (Main.cpp: 103)
 
Voidstar is awesome :D
 
@Neil Wait, why are you coding Java in .cpp files?
 
3:08 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Shh.. pretend it didn't happen and maybe they won't notice.
 
What is Java? Can I eat it?
 
You can drink it.
 
Java gives cancer
Don't eat it
 
I could give us some space at project_name.doublebuffer.org.
 
Ubuntu uses java beans as forum reputation.
 
3:10 PM
800GB of traffic, 24 GB of storage, pretty solid.
 
@DomagojPandža isn't the usual Sourceforge/github good enough?
 
Github for the source stuff, but actual game stuff could be stored there, concept art, model renders, stuff like that
 
We going to make this a Visual C++ project or we going to simply create a makefile?
 
well, afaik, we all develop on different platforms with different environments
so it should be fun to make it all work together
 
This is going to be a real test of our cross platform skills :D
 
3:13 PM
Use a cross-platform build system.
 
> Also, bacon.
 
Cabal!
 
Spaceships and bacon is a nice combo.
@DeadMG The Dwarf Fortress kind of "fun".
!!FUN!!
 
I will take the time at a later date to perhaps formulate some vcprojs for various versions, make it compile out of the box etc.
If someone isn't really fond of "hardcore compiling"
but that's just for the Win platform
 
@DomagojPandža I don't develop on windows
 
3:14 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes You have got to admit that the bacon is a genius idea there.
 
that's not a problem, the rest knows how to work
with their environments
 
We need a cross platform build system, AFAIK, they all suck
 
Cmake is the best of evils
 
We should do our best not to pollute source with platform specifics
 
allows for IDE people to work fine
 
3:15 PM
Abstraction, abstraction, abstraction
 
And put all dependencies in tree
no one likes digging for 3rd party libraries
unless they're on linux.
 
If I see WINVER, I will shoot to kill
 
But our abstraction, it would be nice for the game to be actually our work and not some library's credit.
 
@Neil #define WINVER 0x0500
 
@DomagojPandža I think that's a major pitfall in such projects, if you don't mind me saying so
 
3:16 PM
@DomagojPandža Yes, there's a good reason to limit dependencies, but there are some libraries which we cannot reasonably do without if we meet a problem in their domain
 
We can't possibly think to make our own everything.. we're going to need the help of many libraries
 
for example, TBB and Boost.
 
@DeadMG boost is a given :P
 
Boost isn't that of a problem; every decent C++ developer has it on their system.
 
@rubenvb *shoots*
 
3:17 PM
Oh, I just mean for the stuff that does the actual game work, not the low level dependencies we've come to enjoy
 
@DomagojPandža Oh yeah. Agreed.
 
@DomagojPandža Definitely
Though, before anything is going to get done, the game has to be fleshed out in terms of how you play, what is the objective, if you play online, etc.
 
@Neil Already done.
 
It's going to be difficult enough to organize as it is
@DeadMG Oh?
 
@ScarletAmaranth Best idea so far.
 
3:19 PM
@Neil It's an RTS. I have the basic design down already.
 
You guys are going to fecking distract me form getting a new job
 
@DeadMG Can you publish it?
 
Thanks.
 
The biggest problem will be making it work across platforms. When you're writing games, compiling is not the danger zone. You have these dark silent failures which make you stare at the screen with no end in sight. :Đ
 
3:20 PM
@DomagojPandža Like my existing D3D9 renderer :(
 
any hoops, time for me to take a sunny hot walk home
 
modular dependencies I have in my current design
 
@DeadMG first thought, what a mess
 
If we architect this right, when we flesh it out the most important stuff, I'll be able to work out even some of the OGL 4.0 profile goodness to support displacement mapping and LoD tessellation for the upper-class GPU citizens.
 
3:22 PM
This Note is full!
That had better not be a rickroll link ;)
 
@thecoshman Kek. That's how games work- they're a bit of a mess.
 
It's a sexy mess
 
We might need to move this over something like Google docs, at least for now
 
@DeadMG Yeah, but all this is very technical. This is the game's engine, not the game
 
any way, I'm off, I'll chat later
 
3:24 PM
Später.
 
how do you build TBB with MinGW?
 
You could abstract it all away into GameEngine class
 
@Neil As I said, I already have some, or much, of the game's core design down.
 
Don't worry if technical stuff is not your favorite part, we'll take care of it.
 
Well that's a better argument than mine, damn :)
Why didn't you say so sooner?
 
3:24 PM
ah, make compiler=gcc
 
no clang?
 
@Neil We should design the game first, and then basically just make the tech that can support that game.
 
5 mins ago, by DeadMG
@Neil It's an RTS. I have the basic design down already.
 
@RadekSlupik wut?
 
@rubenvb oh wait never mind.
 
3:25 PM
I just hope that we can be on a decent abstraction level that we can inject other components without killing everything in response.
 
@DomagojPandža We don't have much of a choice if you want "random people" working together anyway :)
 
@RadekSlupik A compiler that can't do SFINAE properly? No, thanks :P
 
And it would be cool if we were to utilize some modern C++ beauty
 
I'm not very much into game development, but I can do things like user preferences files. xD
 
This is going to be so funny
 
3:27 PM
C++ beauty?
 
C++11 would be a prerequisite for this room
 
@DomagojPandža We're all Modern C++ experts working with the latest versions of our toolchains.
 
I hope so.
 
it's pretty unlikely we'll devolve into a C-with-Classes hackery
 
@DomagojPandža Well, two words for you: MSVC.
 
3:28 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes MSVC sucks!!
@DeadMG can use icc.
 
guys, do you know any good gui svn tool for linux?
 
1
A: Can I "wear an umbrella"?

Evan CarrollYes. You can wear an umbrella. You can even give a seductive demonic grin when doing so. I see no reason she could not also be wearing a coat. Other, than perhaps selling fewer umbrellas to wear.

 
@rubenvb No I can't, it's paid-for on Windows.
 
@bamboon Ctrl+Alt+F1
 
Gosh, you use the virtual consoles?
 
3:29 PM
@rubenvb harhar
 
@DeadMG get it elsewhere ;-)
 
Meh.
 
lol
 
@RadekSlupik Erm, linux.
@bamboon TortoiseHg!
 
@bamboon I almost made you lose your fancy GUI didn't I?
 
3:29 PM
@DeadMG I fucking hope so, otherwise I'm going to personally come and slap each and everyone of you.
 
@rubenvb nope, I am not that new to linux
 
so
 
We've got C++03 with lambda's and std::thread.
 
the target platform is going to be Linux/Mac/Windows, right?
 
and enum class, but without initializer lists
 
3:30 PM
because I assume that none of us would give up the ability to target our own preferred platforms
 
That would be ideal.
 
I won't shed any tears over OS X, but Linux and Windows certainly
 
I would go for windows only but then I'd get slapped very hard and possibly repeatedly.
 
OS X isn't that of an issue, I'm very familiar with it.
 
@ScarletAmaranth you'd be excluding half the room.
 
3:32 PM
@rubenvb That's what I said, basically :P
 
I can help out with OS X, but are there users around here actually actively on that platform? I mean, besides iOS coding?
 
AFAIK, there's a bunch of Mac users.
 
I think we have a couple Loungers on Mac
 
I'm on Mac.
 
not as many as Linux or Windows, but a couple
 
3:33 PM
@DomagojPandža I often write Cocoa apps, sometimes with OpenGL in them.
 
We get the regular friendly fight about it from time to time.
 
Thing is, once you got the bootstrap (windowing, input) going, there isn't much difference between OS X and Linux.
 
linux sucks cow cock
 
You know what sucks more? Robots that use Linux.
 
Wait, what?
 
3:34 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes thanks, I could have found that myself
 
Is that a targeted insult?
 
Both Linux and OS X are UNIX systems, but OS X has slightly different conventions regarding placement of files (e.g. app-related files go in the application bundle and preferences go in ~/Library/Preferences).
 
I'm the subtlest bitch around.
 
@EtiennedeMartel Where the hell did that come from, anyway?
 
@RadekSlupik wrong. Mac OS is not Unix.
 
3:35 PM
FTR, I'm running Windows right now.
 
Your example pretty much proves that.
 
@rubenvb Mac OS X is a fully POSIX-compliant UNIX system.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I don't know, I felt like it would have been a funny thing to say.
 
Mac OS wasn't.
 
@rubenvb I thought that was GNU.
 
3:35 PM
@RadekSlupik then why does it not adhere to the Unix File Hierarchy standard?
 
It's based in good part on FreeBSD, along with the Mach microkernel
but a lot of it was rewritten
 
@rubenvb OS X is built on top of FreeBSD.
 
in the "Apple fashion"
 
Unrelated pedantry tangent alert.
 
and named XNU, XNU is Not Unix, a nice sentiment
 
3:36 PM
@rubenvb It does, except for Cocoa applications (OS X is based on both BSD and NeXT).
 
ok, seems I got GNU confuzzled with UNIX.
 
It does have /dev, /usr, /usr/bin, etc…, but those are usually used by command-line apps.
 
Didn't know BSD was Unix.
 
Question for C++ers at large? For small algorithmic pieces of code, how much do you rely on OOP versus just plain old imperative code?
 
@RadekSlupik The best apps!
 
3:37 PM
You still have much to learn, young Padawan.
 
It's a clusterfuck of UNIX qualifications, rarely systems really pass the "UNIX" stamp.
 
@EtiennedeMartel no shit sherlock :)
 
@rubenvb That's a bit of a failboat, because after all, GNU is not Unix.
 
Unix-like would be the best descriptor
 
This isn't really an issue if we abstract the things away.
 
3:38 PM
Does POSIX define anything related to OpenGL?
 
I guess not.
 
@rubenvb Nope.
 
@RadekSlupik Everything can be solved by adding indirection.
 
that's just stupid
 
3:39 PM
Sometimes people link them together because of the notion of POSIX threads used together with OGL apps.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I know.
 
@jozefg OOP is not a "thing". If you need a generic algorithm, write a template accepting iterators.
 
@rubenvb Why? (And what, btw? I can't be sure what that is a reply to)
 
Well, I have to go, duty calls. Hopefully the design document will increase in size by the time I get back. Happy coding!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes The OpenGL POSIX thing, sorry for the confusion.
 
3:41 PM
OpenGL is waaaay out of the scope of POSIX.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes its a reply to my question way up there
 
No, it's not! Don't try to confuse the poor robot's little brain.
 
@rubenvb Clarify what you mean by "object orientation isn't a thing" please?
 
(It's little because of miniaturization. Its processing power is way above the gray blobs that pass for meatbag brains.)
Everything is a thing, btw.
 
Object orientation is setting the rotation of an object relative to a frame of reference.
Object oriented is a programming paradigm.
 
3:43 PM
@jozefg OOP because you want to program OO is not good. You should keep things simple, and use what you need when you need it, not because "OOP is good".
 
Using OOP because OOP is good sounds good to me.
Why would you avoid using something that is good?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Then you get Java.
 
It's almost as good as Werediggles gonna weredig.
 
OOP is generally a good idea.
 
@rubenvb What?
 
3:44 PM
I never said avoid OOP. I said use it when the situation fits
 
If it's good, it's good. By definition, right?
 
@rubenvb im not using it just to be able to say that i did, im more wondering at what point do you feel that it "fits"
Im not throwing it at every 100 line Project Euler problem or anything
 
A hierarchy chain of 10 classes (heck, five even) with a bunch of virtual functions is stupid.
 
@rubenvb Then it's not good.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yet that is OOP as well.
That was my point.
 
3:45 PM
So?
You say that you shouldn't use OOP because OOP is good.
(I'm trolling you on a pedantic detail, btw. Yeah, bored.)
 
I'm just going to rest my case and leave the decision to a uninformed jury.
 
@rubenvb well at least you tried
 
@jozefg :p
 
Is the game hosted on GitHub?
 
@jozefg I do keep variables as objects, and the "main codeflow" as imperative, except where it would be a bad idea, such as functions that need state that a static local can't handle, in which case that/they become an object as well.
 
3:57 PM
0
Q: Templated conversion function to function pointer

PotatoswatterYay, another question title composed of a random sequence of C++ terms! Usually we make a class Callable by implementing operator(). But you can also do so by implementing a user-defined conversion to function pointer or reference type. Instead of using perfect forwarding, a conversion function ...

 
I hate code where the main codeflow is members of objects, because then you end up with IInstanceFactoryFactoryand I can't figure out how any task works.
 
@Potatoswatter One should write a generator of random sequences of C++ terms.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Or just look at §14…
 
@Potatoswatter The example doesn’t use a function pointer, does it?
 
lol
@Potatoswatter Is the fact that I didn't need to look up what §14 is bad or good?
 

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