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12:00 AM
@sehe Seems like a silly thing to do. The whole point of ellipses (e.g., template <typename... Args>) is that they can represent items of many types.
 
@JerryCoffin I think people can tolerate waiting for optimization, you can probably cache JIT-ed versions remotely and pump the binary back to them through a downloader. I think the real world cases you mention also inherit performance problems due to the design of their language.
 
@Mikhail If you're going to cache them remotely and download them on demand, that starts to sound an awful lot like it's no longer (even close to) JIT compilation. It's ahead of time compilation with a semi-standardized shell for looking at the environment and deciding which ahead of time-compiled binary to use. Clearly could be made to work--but equally clearly the compilation is following the AOT model, not the JIT model.
 
Technically you'd be correct, but the only real difference it that one is ahead of time and the other is just-in-time :-)
 
@Mikhail So the first step in making JIT compilation superior to AOT compilation is to use AOT compilation instead of JIT compilation. Be honest, you've been taking some political science classes, haven't you?
 
I mean, I think they deployed AOT on Android to great success.
 
12:14 AM
:39705336 Just sounded like the sort of doubletalk in which politicians seem to specialize (well, maybe not fully specialize, but at least partially specialize).
 
I didn't flip-flop my position, actually I was too lazy to call it by the right to begin with
 
@Mikhail It's certainly better than JIT compilation. When they take the next step, and distribute machine code, it'll improve even more. :-)
 
Well, one of the nice things with android is that whenever the update affects their AOT, it automatically re-builds everything. Because they are locally stored you don't need to re-download assets, etc.
 
@Mikhail I guess that's a reasonable idea, at least in theory. I can't say Android has impressed me as having such a huge advantage in stability or performance over, say, Linux or FreeBSD (or even Windows) that I'm convinced it's a huge step forward.
 
ITS MADE OF LINUX
 
12:25 AM
@Mikhail It does, of course, have a Linux kernel, sure. I'm comparing to typical Linux distros like Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, etc. though, not just the kernel.
 
I mean, unlike desktop Linux distros humans can use it...
 
12:44 AM
sigops.org/sosp/sosp09/papers/klein-sosp09.pdf - formally verified kernel... depends on what you want to do with the system
A cynic might say that an implementation proof
only shows that the implementation has precisely the
same bugs that the specification contains. This is
true: the proof does not guarantee that the specification
describes the behaviour the user expects. The
difference is the degree of abstraction and the absence
of whole classes of bugs. In the same notation, the
abstract specification is one third the size of the C
code and works with concepts that are simpler and
faster to reason about.
I love bold claims.
 
@Mikhail I have three keys to get to any application I want. Beat that.
 
Perhaps I could beat off to that
Anyways, Android is by far the most successful user facing packaging of the Linux kernel if not simply by numbers
 
What else but by by numbers?
 
I think the interface is easy to use compared to the desktop (IDK, maybe compare to KDE), although this is subjective and I'm too lazy to find the UX studies that support my point
 
1:05 AM
@CaptainGiraffe Figures don't lie, but liars can figure. In this case, there's almost nothing in the way of direct competition. The vast majority of users aren't consciously choosing Android. They're just avoiding being raped by choosing an Apple device.
6
 
1:17 AM
so down to the bottom, C is still the most used language by the number of device using it at kernel
which OS does not use at least some C in its kernel?
 
Experimental OS's like that one written in Rust or MS Singularity was mostly not-C
 
why didn't I become a C kerner programmer - write it once, copy, paste and re-use a billion times
>_<
this is what I call - efficiency ...
 
 
5 hours later…
6:25 AM
5 hours later
 
7:17 AM
thick skinned bank - deduct mortgage repayment amount from saving account, but it doesn't reflect on the loan account until the next day ...
 
So, if I want to throw away a few thousand dollars on video game art, whats the right way to go about it?
Also need some reading suggestions
Gave up on Infinite Jest, did Galápagos yesterday
 
8:10 AM
Meanwhile I'm totally unable to apply simple makeup x)
 
8:23 AM
@fredoverflow What's karel?
@fredoverflow page not found :(
 
Ven
8:34 AM
Hi
 
Hi :3
Typical working day:
« It's slow when I do X or Y »
« Yeah, we're working on images that weight several Go, I wouldn't expect it to be fast »
Also it would probably be faster if uor threads actually ran on several cores, but Python y'know
 
Ven
8:50 AM
Pauvre gilles.
 
9:13 AM
@Morwenn 'images that weight several Go'?
 
@thecoshman Gb, I used the French symbol, sorry ^^'
 
ah
giga om nom noms?
 
Gigaoctet
 
Ven
OMG x8
 
 
1 hour later…
10:18 AM
Green cake: check
 
Green velvet?
 
Nope
Anyone from Vietnam or Thailand would know what makes the cake green :p
 
food coloring :p
 
Nah, it has taste too (even though they probably exagerated the colour)
 
10:33 AM
lemongrass maybe?
or greentea powder
 
pandan
 
@Morwenn That tea powder stuff
 
11:22 AM
I'm pretty sure it's green tea
those green cake I bought in vietnam were green tea flavored.
 
49 mins ago, by Morwenn
pandan
 
But I'm sure they used food coloring anyway. Otherwise cake wouldn'T always have the same green.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix this would fit with red velvet too, you can use straight beats but nobody does
 
That's what I'm talking about, those aren'T sweet at all, so if it was pandan leaf it would be "sweet" according to some article about pandan.
@Mgetz food coloring is everywhere. I remember in school we studied a text about a kid being proud of his fater work which was making all tomato soup in can have the same exact red.
Food coloring is like people being scared of having food of different color because they're made from different ingredients.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix or the fact that all carrots sold in the store can't have multiple root stems because GASP
 
11:34 AM
This standardization is even worse, I believe the European union even have some standard that prevent farmers from selling some "food" that doesn't fit the color/shape and for that same exact reason some particular type of food never gets in super markets.
exactly
It's kind of ridiculous when you think how many type of animals live on earth and all you can find in a super market is chicken, cow/beef, pork, turkey. In some specialized shop you might find bunny,goat,horse,duck,goose.
 
@Telkitty ellipsis kills
 
TIL Windows implements block device streams like Linux does.
 
If you guys like risk and want to make money, wait in december/january until the Russian ruble crash again. If it goes up to 90 ruble for 1euro it's a good time to buy rubles, then wait for things to calm down and it will probably go down to 70 ruble for 1 euro. That will be the time to buy euros with the rubles you bought.
 
@sehe sorry about the weird question yesterday.
 
12:10 PM
@benardier you back on regular meds now? :)
 
@sehe I know right? why one dot (.) makes a full stop but three dots (...) make an ellipsis
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix whoah, please don't. This is actually just spam
@Telkitty You forgot the ellipsis at the end, to make it seem deep ...
 
...
 
I generally use them when I don't want to finish my chain of reasoning...
 
12:25 PM
@sehe ah, no I don't take medication. I was just bored.
 
@sehe Expect things to be a bit tense when ISIS will be defeated in Syria, next target will be the moderate rebels and the kurds.
 
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix There was a gentleman, a kinda famous russian blogger, who wrote in December 2013 something along "lol see USD/RUR is 1/34 see how I buy RUR and then buy USD back with profit remember that tweet". Yeah now everyone remembers that tweet.
Кстати, я продал все свои доллары по 48 и сейчас сижу в рублях ;) обратно откуплюсь по 41 через месяц. Запомните этот твит
 
No I don't
ahah
 
Oh I mixed up the dates.
whatever
 
not a lucky guy
 
12:34 PM
His blog is very informative though, he reports on city issues very well.
 
yeah he was on something thought, just miscalculated a bit.
That year, In euro it tipped to 90...
 
12:48 PM
You could actually sell it even higher in the street exchanges.
Is there a moderator here who can reping chat member?
https://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/39711009#39711009
Wrote a reply but he's been 7+1 days ago in chat.
 
Can't you open a private chatroom with said user?
 
or just give up on it
 
user6225166
1:51 PM
hello all.i want to know what's the best langage for game coding
 
user6225166
?
 
Ven
yes
 
nwp
That one is a pretty good lan gage, but you do need an adapter to plug it in.
 
user6225166
i mean language
 
English is ok
 
2:01 PM
there are different ways of creating games, one is to use an existing engine, and then you will be restricted in which languages you can use
 
user6225166
in term of performance what is the best choice?
 
nwp
Perfectly written assembler.
 
anything that doesn't go through an interpreter
 
Ven
Pascal
 
though many "interpreters" are really JIT compilers so you pay a bit of startup cost to compile it down to machine code and afterwards you get better perf than just a interpreter
 
user6225166
2:10 PM
Thanks
 
2:34 PM
The 2017-10 C++ proposals mailing is finally available /o/
 
Ven
@Morwenn anything cool?
 
@Ven Apparently built-in comparison of integral types is broken enough for someone to propose to add function templates to compare built-in integers
Many interesting proposals have new revisions, but I'm not in the "new" part yet
A proposal so that malloc and friends actually create trivial objects (what people expec today, in other words make valid code valid)
> The abstract machine creates objects of implicit lifetime types as needed to give the program defined behavior. If there exists a set of such objects, with corresponding points of creation, whose creation would give the program defined behavior, then the program has that behavior. Otherwise, the behavior of the program is undefined.
At least two papers to fix things in std::vector without changing its interface
Ah, the operator try proposal is there
 
3:01 PM
@Morwenn Unexciting, but pretty much required since essentially all code using malloc is broken according to the current drafts.
 
My sarcasm parser is borken plz hlep
 
and a plea about the keyword status of module
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah, and IIRC std::vector is actually UB because of related lifetime problems
There's another attempt at C++ VLAs
 
@Rerito Sarcasm detection isn't necessary. Nobody here would ever use sarcasm!
 
More error types
 
3:02 PM
@JerryCoffin Indeed, where is my mind?!
 
@Rerito Apparently within shouting distance of mine, which is always in the gutter.
 
Range adaptors and more utilities for the Ranges TS
""Concepts are adjectives" proposal
 
@Morwenn ...but still (I'm betting) nothing to deal with the issues @robot was having with them.
 
std::function_ref proposal
@JerryCoffin Writing easy ranges? There was an iterator_facade proposal at some point, but that's pretty much it :/
 
@Morwenn Except for refinements of "function-like", in which case they're probably more adverbs.
 
3:06 PM
monad stuff
 
@Morwenn Yeah. I don't remember for sure, but I think he was taking iterator_facade into account.
 
yes
The problem is that iterators and ranges cover so many sub-problems that even specifying them is really hard
It comes down to the intrinsic complexity of C++
 
or maybe trying to stuff a general problem in a small hole
 
@Morwenn I think it's less about intrinsic complexity of the language, than intrinsic complexity of the problem space for which the language is commonly used (which is to say, I think I mostly agree with @ratchetfreak).
 
yeah
there's a rant against nested namespaces
 
3:11 PM
@Morwenn Makes sense. Names and identifiers are never contextual.
 
Many proposals to change small things to fix small library issues here and there
Battlefields over the bodies of concepts & modules
 
@Morwenn I suspect more battles will ensue before modules are ironed out.
 
yup
There's a proposal to add a better template<auto> constant; to replace std::integral_constant and whichs adds user-defined literal
25c would have been better than 25static IMO, but there will likely be tons of bikeshed of the literal anyway
A proposal to overhaul what should be in a freestanding implementation
 
anything is better than yet another synonym of static
 
@Morwenn I'm gonna guess that eventually leads to a fair amount of bikeshedding as well, at least assuming it doesn't get killed first.
 
3:17 PM
Another battle over the Down with typename! proposal
@JerryCoffin I'd go for the second if too many people start to care
Another proposal to lift overload sets into objects
Proposals for one or two small additions to <algorithm>
A proposal to add [[no_unique_address]] to optimize possibly empty objects while avoiding the name look-up problems introduced by EBCO
Oh, and Richard Smith wants to make it clear what attributes are really for and what their impacts might be on program semantics, which is great:
> compiling a valid program with all instances of a particular attribute ignored must result in a correct interpretation of the original program
 
@Morwenn doesn't that change semantics?
 
nwp
> "a correct" or "the correct"?
 
Ven
@Morwenn that ship pretty much sailed already, right?
 
@ratchetfreak It might change the ABI, but not the program semantics
@Ven People are still trying to propose attributes that might make a program fail to compile when ignored, so...
 
@Morwenn unless addresses are taken from the empty field members
 
3:28 PM
@ratchetfreak If you put the attribute, you've no guarantee about the addresses, so if you code a program which is correct against the guarantees (of lack thereof) provided by [[no_unique_address]] would also be correct without the attribute
 
language lawyering at work...
 
 
Yup
 
But you've already got no guarantee that EBCO will kick in when you code (it's an allowed but not guaranteed optimization), so this attribute will have the same limitations for the same use cases
 
Anyway, the biggest proposals of this mailing aren't the new ones, but there are plenty of small ones and debates about the existing ones, so it looks like I'll have much to read :D
@Ven It makes you wonder how many syntax DRs it might eventually raise if accepted x)
 
Ven
@Morwenn is => in regular use? :P
 
template<auto> foo; foo<&bar::operator=> or something along these lines is probably legal :p
 
user406009
@Ven Ah, the standard C++ tactic. Feature X is broken. Let's introduce Xv2 which will surely fix all our problems!
 
@Lalaland Then let's maintain both
 
user406009
3:35 PM
It's ok. The more ways of doing things the merrier.
 
user406009
We all know that code is art and art cannot be restrained.
 
Anyway, I've got to go, I'll resume annoying you later :p
 
Ven
i'm like, frozen in time, my dude
 
@Lalaland IMO they didn't claim feature X is broken. Just "Feature X is hard to use correctly/optimally" (which it is)
 
Ven
So something that's hard to use correctly isn't broken?
 
3:40 PM
@Ven More like "forward operator" (good thing IYAM). I'm not thrilled by the particular sin-tax
 
Ven
@sehe awful syntax
 
@Ven Well. It's more of the "optimally" than "correctly" though, with some reason, real C++ buffs will argue that if not optimally, there's no reason to C++
 
3:54 PM
@sehe Quite a bit of the time that I use C++ it isn't in pursuit of anything like optimal--it's more just avoiding the horrible levels of pessimization that seems to be the norm among most alternatives.
 
Ven
The paper on likelyhood forgets that sometimes we only want to LIKELY part of an if? or does it just doesn't matter?
 
@Ven it doesn't seem to consider ternaries and short-circuit operators &&, ||
 
4:18 PM
heo pepels
 
ahahahah what
 
@ratchetfreak He doesn't explicitly discuss it, but there doesn't seem to be any difficulty with something like: A = B ? [[likely]] C() : D();
@Ven He explicitly discusses conflicting use on parts of an if if (x) [[likely]] A; [[unlikely]] B; (probably incorrect, since if A executes, so will B, unless A throws).
 
Ell
lol
 
why does it seem so difficult to get the attention of people on an internet chatroom? helloooooo people!
I crave attention!
 
Ell
because nobody wants to talktofrank.com
 
4:32 PM
@JerryCoffin Me too. I was explaining the correctly/optimally balance (in that paper)
 
4:55 PM
@sehe Fair enough.
 
@JerryCoffin attribute syntax isn’t so fine-grained that you can apply it at the expression level like that
 
@LucDanton Isn't it? I guess I should be less lazy and check these things before spouting nonsense.
 
nah, why should that stop you? keep on truckin!
 
5:19 PM
I cannot see what's broken there.
http://coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/06bd286b9644695e
The paper begins with expressing the need of lambda declaration while it is absolutely not clear how it is necessary in provided example.
 
@EuriPinhollow Your code does have UB (reads from a without its being initialized), but I doubt that's what you care about. The rest, well, I too thought the first motivating example in the paper looked a great deal like a scarecrow (i.e., a straw man).
 
@JerryCoffin Is it legal to read an uninitialized value from something that's is_trivially_constructible?
I'm thinking no. Otherwise you can read a signalling NaN and crash.
 
@Mysticial I believe it gives UB. It certainly used to in C.
 
I'm guessing memcpy() is not exempt. Say you have a struct of PODs. You declare one. Set one of the fields. memcpy() it somewhere else and set the remaining fields. Then you use it for real.
Even though the struct might be a POD, that memcpy() is UB.
 
5:28 PM
@Mysticial C (and I think C++ inherits this) also allows things like an int having padding bits, which can create something similar to a signalling NaN, so even just reading it can crash (or whatever).
 
18
Q: Is it undefined behaviour to memcpy from an uninitialized variable?

Tor KlingbergIs using an uninitialized variable as the src for memcpy undefined behaviour in C? void foo(int *to) { int from; memcpy(to, &from, sizeof(from)); }

 
@Mysticial Open to more question. memcpy deals in char. Unsigned char (and, by extension, I believe char, even if it's signed, as well) have a special exemption, so you can look at any bit pattern in memory and always get (implementation-) defined behavior.
 
char and unsigned char are exempt
@JerryCoffin iirc signed char is not!
 
So you can get around it by aliasing the object as char or unsigned char?
 
@LucDanton Sorry, didn't really mean explicitly signed char, but only char that happens to be signed...
@Mysticial Right (and they're also immune to all the strict aliasing rules).
 
5:33 PM
huh, in C++ it’s unsigned char and std::byte—at least they have rules when it comes to evaluation involving indeterminate values
technically it says 'unsigned narrow char types' and I don’t know if that includes char that happens to be unsigned
 
@LucDanton I think it really extends to all char, because char, signed char and unsigned char are required to have "the same object representation."
 
Fucking legalese/standardese.
 
@Mysticial Fucking is exactly right--it reproduces faster than most of the nerds who write it. :-)
 
@LucDanton The real question here is why would you want to
 
Ell
char considered harmful
 
5:48 PM
> Furthermore, lambdas are unique in C++ in that they often are meaningless in a vacuum - they rely on the immediate context that comes from the expressions that contain them and code that precedes them.
 
@Puppy The obvious reason would be to simplify things. For example, assume we have a string that uses SSO. To copy it, we might want to just copy the entirety of A into B, even if part of A's internal string buffer may never have been initialized.
 
you mean like in C# where they are literally untypable on their own?
@JerryCoffin The logical conclusion here is that A should initialize their damn buffers, or if they need speed, then don't copy the bits they don't need.
 
@Puppy Buttt....purrformance!
 
then don't copy the whole damn buffer regardless of if you need it ;p
 
@Puppy Copying some extra may actually gain speed (e.g., using AVX instructions to do the copy).
 
5:50 PM
then you gotta initialize the buffer else you're risking trap representations
I mean really, this dilemma if you want to call it that, has nothing to do with the source language.
as long as the CPU has trap representations, the software running on it needs to avoid them, and can't rely on random data not trapping
at this juncture I ask myself why people even invented trap representations in the first place
but on a more general note
if you are going to use a CPU-specific approach like AVX to do your copy, it seems entirely reasonable that this would be bound by the CPU-specific rules, so if you know that instruction doesn't trap, then you're totally fine regardless of what the Standard says
as long as the compiler offering that intrinsic properly respects the impact of that on potential optimizations
ultimately, I don't have a problem with people who are looking for peak performance having to go down to compiler or CPU-specific techniques
 
6:11 PM
 
Did someone say AVX?!?
Oh, it's just this stupid memcpy() shit.
 
23 hours ago, by fredoverflow
@wilx https://vimeo.com/215556547
 
Speaking of AVX:
> Well that's a shame... A Skylake processor without AVX512? :(
@Mysticial ...but it's not Skylake :P
 
@milleniumbug oh... ahahaha. Totally forgot I had that message. I think I put in there some 2 years ago and forgot to take it out when the real Skylake launched this year.
That message is ifdef'ed to only be printed if the AVX512 binary is enabled. So nobody ever saw that message.
 
It's i7 7700k BTW
 
6:24 PM
@milleniumbug Yeah, it'll print that message on any Skylake (or later) processor if it doesn't have AVX512.
 
@fredoverflow is that the C ~interpreter~ you have?
 
@Puppy So any attempt at using un-initialized data would immediately be obvious, of course.
 
@thecoshman No, but they use the same editor:
 
@JerryCoffin At least MSVC tries to do that with the 0xCCCCCCCC thing in debug mode.
@fredoverflow WTF was the original image? :)
 
@Mysticial Yeah, nothing interesting. I could just as well have referred to doing 32-bit moves on a 386, except that I'm (nearly?) the only one here who remembers those.
 
6:33 PM
@Mysticial That's what happens when a programmer designs a logo ;)
 
@fredoverflow on github?
 
So in my pi program, I initialize all the memory by writing shit to it. The reason for initializing in the first place isn't to avoid UB, but to force the OS to actually commit the pages (as opposed to doing it lazily and crashing later). But even that isn't enough on Windows. Since the fucking superfetch shit tries to compress memory. So you can't just write zeros to it. You need to write actual random shit that's random enough to defeat their compression algorithm.
 
@thecoshman Yes, just put the name of the project and the name of the hosting service into your favorite search engine ;)
 
@Mysticial is windows really the smartest OS to use for this? I would have thought using a very minimal kernal
@fredoverflow think you're being a bit over confident there :P
'karel github' ends up being someone random guy's own profile
 
Out-of-box, Windows is worse than Linux. But Windows gives you much finer control over things than Linux does. IOW:
- Given no effort, Windows is shit.
- Given some effort, Windows gives you better control than Linux which can lead to better performance.
- Given a LOT of effort, the Linux kernel is open-sourced. So you can modify it in any way you wish. So theoretically, this gives you even more control than Windows.
 
@Mysticial you are having bulk fill blocks of memory to force the OS to not compress RAM :\
 
@thecoshman Correct. That combined with using some OS function to lock the memory so that the OS isn't allowed to page it out or do anything stupid with it.
 
to be fair... why even bother with the Kernel :P
 
Linux doesn't do this sort of shit. What it does instead is - kill random processes until there's no issues anymore.
 
it’s the only way to enforce discipline
 
6:44 PM
@fredoverflow not a fan of expression functions? github.com/fredoverflow/karel/blob/master/src/main/kotlin/logic/… :P
 
@thecoshman I have grown to hate them over the years in Scala... I don't really care about saving 1 or 2 lines of code.
 
really? what do you have against them?
The only slight issue I can see is the slight lack of control over the returned type, but that's not that hard to solve
 
I simply find separating the function "header" (?) and the function body to be more readable in most cases.
There are no medals for cramming as much as possible into one line.
But that's just personal taste, really.
 
you can still just do
fun foo() =
bar
vOv
I think for simple functions, it's simple enough to read
but yeah, personal taste
 
add comment lines to pad out the count!
 
6:48 PM
I use them for purely "forwarding" functions:
fun decrement(): KarelWorld = increment()
 
so not even when you add a parameter to the function? like in what I linked to?
 
What exactly do you mean by "add a parameter to the function"?
 
you have fun foo() T { return bar(baz) } rather than just fun foo() = bar(baz) vOv
Also, you need to write a DSL for your world building :P because you can
 
Oh look what I found:
private fun lastInstruction() = program.last()
 
hahaha
 
6:53 PM
It's really hard to be consistent, even with your own rules :)
 
Don't make me PR converting everything to expression functions :P
 
You can PR all you want, I won't accept them ;)
 
¬_¬
 
@fredoverflow "Rejected! Please re-submit in 30 days for further rejection."
4
 
Initial thought is that maybe some sort of tree would help... loop through each string and put it into a 'tree' with a character for each node... then somehow work out which branch to go down :\
 
7:03 PM
private fun pop(): Int {
    val result = stack.top()
    stack = stack.pop()
    return result
}
 
the loop should be limited to the least of all the string lengths
 
Do you prefer the above or the below?
private fun pop(): Int {
    return stack.top().also { stack = stack.pop() }
}
 
obviously the strings can't have a common prefix longer than the shortest string among them
 
@fredoverflow in that case, yes, the first.
you can't use expression functions for unit functions, can you?
 
@fredoverflow just for fun, Pony has what it calls destructive reads allowing you to write the same as (stack = stack.pop()).top(), or in a C++ garb: std::exchange(stack, stack.pop()).top()
 
7:11 PM
@thecoshman I don't know.
 
ie, you couldnt do fun pop() = stack = stack.pop()
 
8:00 PM
@thecoshman I found another one:
fun <U, T : U> Stack<T>.push(x: U): Stack<U> = Stack.Cons(x, this)
 
@fredoverflow see, expression function makes those generics so much easier to read :S
 
what the hell is Pony? curious
 
it’s a small Horse
 
9:07 PM
@wilx thanks again wilx, that was exactly what I needed! pull --rebase
 
Cool.
 
9:50 PM
@Mysticial Apparently Windows Defender sometimes consider your y-cruncher to be a virus x)
MD5: 10985a47023ce3514519198df3e675fc
 
I always knew @Mysticial was doing shady stuff.
 
@Morwenn lolwut
 
exactly
 
What file is it flagging? I've had a false positive before on the HWBOT submitter .jar file. But when I submitted it to MS, they said it was already fixed. Apparently one of their heuristics went bad.
 
Not sure, I'll ask to the guy who tried it
 
10:03 PM
If it's flagging the "y-cruncher.exe" file for "executing other files". Well no shit. It executes one of the binaries in the Binaries/ directory.
 
xD
 
how devious
 
Apparently it was indeed the main executable
 
Fuck... More work for me to do tonight.
 
How dare your executable execute things.
 
10:07 PM
@Mysticial That's a pretty standard thing for any executable to do ;p
 
Hehe :p
 
That file doesn't even request admin. I understand why Windows Defender has one version where it flagged the .jar since it has an option to run y-cruncher as admin and it uses scripts to do it. But the "y-cruncher.exe" file doesn't do shit. It calls cpuid, and runs one of the binaries in that folder.
 
> Remove threat now
 
10:47 PM
@Morwenn Softpedia has been tracking y-cruncher releases for quite some time now. Initially I didn't think much of it. But I'm starting to think their stamp of approval might be useful if Windows Defender keeps going rogue like this.
 
It sure could be nice
 
@Morwenn TBH, there really isn't much I can do an individual if Windows itself thinks my code is a virus. So this is something that I'll need to reach out directly to MS about. But they're free to ignore me - in which I'll need to find out exactly what it is that's tripping the heuristic and work around it.
The problem with "working around" a virus scanner heuristic is that the very concept of that is about as sketchy as writing a virus itself.
 
Right
 
@sehe bleh, I’ve run into an ugly bug in my Vim config and I could use your help to root it out
 
@Morwenn And in the meantime, people start losing trust in the application because a "trusted" source (Microsoft) says that it's a virus.
 
10:59 PM
@Mysticial Yeah, that part is probably the weirdest to deal with :/
 
11:21 PM
Are any of you looking for work in Kiev?
 
11:56 PM
@sehe I’ve narrowed it down to here, now to figure out why it doesn’t do what the comment says it should do (i.e. on my end I get a decremented character and a cursor wildly flailing around…)
 

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