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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

12:03 AM
layers of irony, like a little baby, etc.
> the receipts […were…] for things like horse feed. If they were really thieves […] they would have gone out to eat, bought a new house, gotten Jewlery and furs
the rarer reverse no true scotsman
 
Okay, how do you guys have the energy to work on side projects?
 
I cannot possibly comment
 
What about be social after work?
 
> Jewlery
That's quite a creative slur
@Mikhail Be social at work.
 
@sehe Not a viable strategy, everybody at work is 10 years older than me and married. They are nice people but I can't spend hours talking about my kids.
 
12:11 AM
@sehe well spotted, you get a bonus: "My parents are not racist at all. But they do have their opinions, which they are allowed to."
 
I don't know, but I don't think you're still reading Boost release documentation.
 
you’d be surprised
 
On the subject of boost, what exactly is are the applications that should be using Boost.Beast? Better performing web scrapper? Serve HTML in C++?
 
@Mikhail I guess (at least in theory) just about anything using ASIO to do HTTP stuff could do it via Beast.
 
12:43 AM
@Mikhail I think it's current strong point is supposed to be web-sockets. I have seen quite a bit of critique regarding the HTTP protocol support. But even that makes a lot of sense to have in C++: with the rise of Restful API's, so does HTTP make it into the bane of C++ libraries. (Much like JSON)
 
I did not know you had such strong feelings towards Boost
 
Lol. A lack of vocabulary, cleverly disguised
 
1:02 AM
So I finally restored my lovely 95 Camaro to a working condition and the inspection guy quite violently tests the parking brake. The parking brake breaks with the same sound as when you hit the lowest note of a Bösendorfer.
@LucDanton I didn't know it was butter!
 
1:51 AM
I dreamed that some teenage living deep inside bush slashed my tyres last night
woke up with relieve that I neither have to replace the two tyres nor having to spend hours walking out of the bush
 
2:11 AM
@sehe You ever remember a thing from really long ago that you almost forgot? Not a bad memory, just a thing you forgot. It happened to me recently. I think it doesn't matter but maybe if I didn't have memories that pop up randomly I'd be a bigger piece of shit than I already am. Like, maybe it has some weird other-worldly impact on my personality that is really difficult to predict. Is it just me?
Maybe it's the lack of sleep talking...
 
Did you sleep after that?
 
Yeah, yeah
You're so nice. Let's get married.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:22 AM
my chicken so old now ...
 
4:55 AM
I wonder whether lone chicken enjoys the company of pigeons that come to steal her food everyday
there are always enough food for everyone
 
5:21 AM
Anybody heard of ceph?
Its got a BigData™ "Is it Pokemon or Big Data ?" vibe going
CephFS Client on Windows based on Dokan 0.6.0
 
a better question is: why do you care?
 
Apparently having 500 TB+ of data makes my data of interest to a professor (in CS?) who wants to benchmark his software with our set.
Problem is that something in his stack is based on ceph (not clear what they do exactly), but microscopes universally run Windows due to driver support.
Also I'm extremely bitter about loosing a week dealing with a zfs performance tragedy.
 
also why do you want to keep emus, you can just keep chickens ...
they are similar ... kinda ...
 
Because I'm a rebel, also I wanted a giant egg which would be easier use to image vascularization
 
5:40 AM
Chickens are great - they are the size of a huggable soft toy and very docile, you can use it as a lap heater in winter, they give you eggs and they are cheap.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:56 AM
And they eat bugs.
 
and grubs
 
and slugs
 
my chicken doesn't eat slugs
one picky bird
 
7:36 AM
I have a trump look alike chicken ...
 
7:52 AM
@Mikhail Is it porn?
 
8:13 AM
@Telkitty No semblance here. I smell Observer Paradox
 
you are saying that a chicken doesn't look like a human? who would have thought!
 
@Mikhail Who hasn't? Seriously, it is of similar magnitude as GlusterFS
 
8:43 AM
Alf wrote an article in the most recent Overload.
2
 
8:54 AM
uech 32GB is way too low for java development
 
9:11 AM
@StackedCrooked It's one of his "fav" topics - at least I think he's rather expert about it on windows
@StackedCrooked Don't tell me that, besides consuming 6h of youtube vids per day, you also have time to read magazines like that :)
 
@StackedCrooked not for the first time I guess
> [Steinbach11] ‘Unicode part 1: Windows console i/o approaches’, at
https://alfps.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/unicode-part-1-
windows-console-io-approaches/
[Steinbach13] ‘Portable String Literals in C++’, Overload #116,
August 2013, available at https://accu.org/index.php/articles/
1842
 
Wow. 1842. Alf is older than I thought
 
nwp
9:48 AM
I can't find a question about tag dispatch.
I feel like tag dispatch should not pass code-review in c++17 and beyond.
 
10:13 AM
@nwp nah, if constexpr and tag dispatching are like if/else ladders to virtual functions
 
nwp
I don't think I ever had more than two types of tags to dispatch.
 
iterator categories
 
Watching 'Saving Private Ryan,' a movie about a group of very aggressive alt-left protesters invading a beach without a permit.
 
nwp
@sehe I feel like you would enjoy Not a Bar.
 
@nwp not to mention, std::enable_if and tag dispatching allow you to add more overloads by including a header, so they're open, as opposed to ladders of if constexpr confined to a single function
 
nwp
10:24 AM
Hmm, I guess there is still use for it.
 
@sehe private static Ryan;
saves Ryan from object delection
I forgot static in my code and was wondering why variable lost every time I load the class
 
10:54 AM
@Telkitty hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Good one.
 
11:10 AM
> If you are a developer, I recommend that you change this error to actually print out the real problem instead of saying it could be one of many things and not really giving any useful information
goddamn right
 
11:39 AM
nah dude, best error message is a modal popup saying "Something went wrong, please contact sysadmin."
 
But, make it international my coding it as APP-009713C: See owners manual
 
Ven
The best things in life are free. https://t.co/06J6534vHw
 
Such as "bland clichés". They're free.
 
wow
AoE4?
 
eyup
developed by relic entertainment, the folks who did DOW
 
I hope it doesn't suck.
 
12:28 PM
@Mgetz lol, that game >_<
I have wasted spent a lot of time on the first two in the series ...
 
Ven
And AoE1:Actually Remastered comes out soon.
the opposite of SC:R.
 
@Ven AOE:II got remastered in place
 
Ven
Yes. But AoE:I is getting actual remastered features: better pathfinding etc.
as opposed to AoE:II and SC:R.
 
nwp
You can't even link to specific docs.so examples.
@Ven That is considered a feature. They did try to fix ramps in the SC:R update to make the pathfinding less buggy, but they reverted the fix because it broke ramp-blocking and it wasn't the same anymore.
 
Ven
@nwp You don't need to tell me, I'm not arguing about it.
I'm used to spending 300apm getting 3 dragoons to run up a choke. :P
and at least patrol micro is much easier now with SC:R.
A part of why ramps are also so bad is because inversed ramps are a hack that don't actually exist ingame.
 
nwp
12:47 PM
I should play some starcraft again too. Supposedly the not-remastered version is free now.
 
Ven
Indeed. I'd play some with you :).
(You can play between SC and SC:R without a hitch)
 
nwp
I'm bad though, haven't played in ages.
 
Ven
Oh, I absolutely suck as well. I've only done the campaign and 2-3 online matches.
I'm probably worse than you were :).
SC:R controls are actually pretty good ;-).
 
1:20 PM
2 ports and 2 ways, 4 sp per cycle it looks like--
and some new quad FMA
 
@Ven So, how was the show? :)
 
Ven
@Morwenn Vraiment sympa. L'homme qui jouait de la cuillère était vraiment bon ;-).
 
@Ven Cool :o
Ça c'est vraiment folk.
 
Ven
Yep. Je m'attendais pas à un truc qualitatif comme ça en plein milieu de la Lozère ;-).
 
Deux secondes, je cherche la Lozère sur une carte.
 
Ven
1:25 PM
:D
 
Ok, j'ai cru lire « Merde » en ouvrant Google Maps avec « Lozère » xD
Je suis en train de regarder une vidéo. Ils ont l'air de plutôt bien se débrouiller ^^
 
Ven
It was very nice :D.
 
1:42 PM
Wat, I got a shitload of stars on cpp-sort while I was away.
Looks like it was shared on a Russian site.
 
Ven
russian stars best stars?
 
Went from 131 to 169 stars under three days.
 
Ven
grats!
My most starred is at 52, so...
 
Thanks, but I'm not sure what happened xD
I'm reading the article right now (thanks automagic translation tools).
Looks like my repository was linked three times in the comments. That's pretty much it.
 
Ven
Well, I once got 10 stars on my trying.apl repo because it got linked on some obscure subreddit
 
1:57 PM
It's surprising how these things work in practice :p
 
I sprained my ankle
fuckin' dog
 
Ven
woof.
 
I was at a party Saturday, and two ankles were sprained over there too.
 
Ven
that's enough for one person
 
@Morwenn And you're not even a dog
 
2:09 PM
@Ven Fortunately it was two persons, and I wasn't one of them.
 
Ven
I sprained my ankle 2 months ago and I was like "meh it'll just go away"
it still hurts :\. shouldve gone to the doctor
 
:/
 
it will take a couple of months if not years
 
Ven
lol no
 
I have a few exercise related injuries
 
Ven
2:11 PM
if i dealt with it correctly I'd be healed by now :|.
 
like ... not using it
but that's not possible
 
Ven
no you're supposed to use it for it to heal correctly
 
simply start gently hovering above the ground and it will heal itself faster
 
Ven
nice thanks
 
you are welcome
lounge is always here for you
 
2:14 PM
I knew I could help!
 
So who is going to propose better unicode support for C++20?
I fear if nobody does we'll have it in C++75
 
you'll probably die by that time, so don't worry
 
@Morwenn The dog in question decided that, whilst on a walk, she would just bugger off and not come back. Cue four family members searching for her for two hours.
 
lol
 
gonna buy one of those GPS trackers
 
2:23 PM
this tweetstorm courtesy of it taking me 3 months to notice using one invoice as a template for another overwrote the original invoice
UX fail
 
can you defragment a USB flash drive?
 
usb devices don't have a fragmentation problem
well, you could do it, but it's useless
 
@RickAstley Nobody will.
 
@login_not_failed so what happens when you repeatedly save and delete content when near full?
 
@login_not_failed fragmentation is not at all a property of block-devices. It's a property of filesystems (or volume managers).
So saying "USB doesn't have a fragmentation problem" is like saying "Your chassis doesn't have fuel economy"
@RickAstley I believe McNellis may have been talked into something (?)
 
2:37 PM
well, first of all, a USB flash disk don't have moving parts like old HDDs, so there's no benefit of reordering data such that HDD's head will travel less; besides, there's a system (I forgot its name) which tries to spread the wear evenly across the device
it's called TRIM
 
@sehe it still better than bluetooth
then again so is a root canal
 
Well played. I was confused for 3 seconds
@login_not_failed Fragmentation is not all/at all about seek times.
In computer storage, fragmentation is a phenomenon in which storage space is used inefficiently, reducing capacity or performance and often both. The exact consequences of fragmentation depend on the specific system of storage allocation in use and the particular form of fragmentation. In many cases, fragmentation leads to storage space being "wasted", and in that case the term also refers to the wasted space itself. For other systems (e.g. the FAT file system) the space used to store given data (e.g. files) is the same regardless of the degree of fragmentation (from none to extreme). There are...
 
TRIM tries to fragment the data, so you're effectively trying to nullify its job by defragmenting the device
 
@login_not_failed And TRIM is, indeed, an operation introduced for SSD with sophisticated controllers that manage sector allocation for wear leveling, but NO, "TRIM" is not the name of such algos. TRIM is merely a backdoor for OS/drivers to have some control over it back (e.g. telling the disk that a sector is really free, now)
> TRIM tries to fragment the data
There's the slight possibility that you know an implementation detail that I didn't yet, but pending the verdict I'm just going ask for a source on that, because it sounds upside down.
Let's not forget we were talking about USB, not SSD. USB memory sticks don't usually come with sophisticated controller chips.
And, fragmentation is still a file-system level concern, even when forgetting about physical block distributions
 
Hot winds today. It happens like 3 days a year around here.
 
2:53 PM
@sehe it should be in "Windows Internals" book, Part 2, also I've found this answer on SO, which tells almost 1:1 what I just told you :P
 
but when the file system handles contiguous files differently than fragmented files doing a defrag may help
 
3:23 PM
@login_not_failed Random answers on SO don't qualify as a particularly authoritative source. Random answers on SU are even less dependable. @sehe is right: TRIM (or the SCSI equivalent, UNMAP) is simply a way for the file system to inform the drive that some sector(s) is/are no longer in use.
 
the SSD controller is basically like a virtual memory system where the addresses of the block you specify don't necessarily match up to what is on the physical medium
with wear leveling the blocks write to will get remapped to another physical block that has a lower write count and is free
TRIM lets the os signal the SSD that the block can be considered free
without TRIM then the SSD cannot reuse the block because by contract the data must remain intact unless overwritten
 
3:41 PM
yup, this sounds right; but nonetheless, I think one should not try to defragment his USB stick — what's the point?
 
@login_not_failed when the files in directories are referred to as a list of block x + n contiguous blocks defragging will reduce the size of those lists
 
I am debugging a code gen error in clang, and need your help
is there a way to print the this pointer of a lambda in C++ ? (not of the surrounding scope)
 
and yea, without a doubt, I should delve deeper into system-level stuff
 
@gnzlbg convert to function pointer?
 
@gnzlbg come here, this room is for people with PTSD from C++
 
3:55 PM
@ratchetfreak from within the lambda?
(from within the lambda's operator() ?)
@login_not_failed oh when did this happen?
 
@gnzlbg it was like this for quite a while now
 
@login_not_failed ":P" is the hallmark of "Just parroting". I'm going to just say it as I see it: you fell for the massive avalanche of scammy "Optimize My PC" advice/blogs/tools/scams that equate "defragment" with "optimize my PC". Though it can't usually hurt perf, it's largely bogus. And it completely sails past the original purpose of defragmentation: to consolidate free space!
@ratchetfreak All this is correct, but has zero relation to your consumer grade USB stick
@ratchetfreak +1000
 
@sehe nope, I was trying to remember how did I get that idea that you don't need to bother with defragmentation on anything more modern than a spinning rust
 
My take: you basically never needed to :) Yeah, pathological cases could have occurred, but usual installations already wrote the bulk contiguously anyways
 
well, I tried to measure the consequences a long time ago, but got almost nothing
 
4:02 PM
The bottomline is that defragmentation is fundamentally a filesystem (overhead) optimization. This is orthogonal to linearization.
Defragmentation consolidates free space. Linearization shuffles blocks around (and yeah, that's useless in most cases, and most likely counterproductive on anything solid state).
 
yup, nowadays SSDs are so fast that you almost don't need to bother with these system-level topics; although, I'd be glad to sink my teeth into it more...
 
except that ssds are still smaller than spinning disks which are still used often for bulk storage
 
Worse, they make the internals intransparent to the OS (what's more, if the OS saw everything, there's usually a number of VFS/block mapping drivers that obscure it all)
 
yea, that "Windows Internals" book almost entirely consists of these examples (I suddenly remembered how symlinks are done in Windows, ugh)
 
4:22 PM
 
log4cpus lol
 
4:41 PM
@wilx hmm I expected a java programmer, I was disappointed
 
5:34 PM
You realize the error of your ways and accept the former as the one true formatting ;) — Borgleader 10 secs ago
 
6:03 PM
what prohibits one of writing all his c++ code in kernel space rather than in userspace?
theoretical question ^
 
nwp
Linus Torvalds
 
if you would eg manage to pass data from userspace to kernelspace, do your computatuons there and return your results to userspace
@nwp I asked "what" not "who". Unless you mean "a Linus Torvalds" :p
 
nwp
I can't decide if this is awesome or terrible.
 
@nwp Considered awesome until you get tricky errors because of it.
 
6:23 PM
> Overwhelmed by GCC frustration
 
Ven
@nwp ping me if you do wanna play SC at some point
 
nwp
6:38 PM
@Ven I'll try to get it running.
 
6:51 PM
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn nothing, however setting up a compliant environment in kernelspace is usually the major issue. Supporting things like exceptions is possible... but majorly annoying. There are also other things to consider out of the practicalities of a modern system where you can get interrupted at literally every instruction.
 
@Mgetz you mean that if I were to start my main function (to keep it simple) it may be that it would constantly be interrupted by other things in the kernel space which have higher priorities?
 
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn there is no main in kernel mode, there is a kernel entrypoint from the bootloader.... usually at a predictable address and usually named start
 
start there
 
@Mikhail So I started driving up from Southern Illinois at 4pm yesterday. Guess what time we arrived in Chicago? (hint: I had to skip work today)
 
Ven
6:56 PM
@Mysticial as an european, the distances between states always sounds insane
 
@Mgetz I am aware of the bootstages it goes through (especially on embedded devices). Simply trying to get a hold on how (difficult) it might be to run cpp
in KS.
I keep getting vague answers like "yes it is difficult" "why the hell would you do that"
but no answer with which is straight to the point with strong arguments about why exactly it is difficult
 
nwp
It's not difficult. It's just bad. You don't want code running in kernel space if you can avoid it.
 
why is it bad?
 
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