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20:10
Aaannnd Clang 5.0 doesn't have a problem with the libstdc++ of g++ 7.1, so I now have two fine up-to-date compilers for my C++17 branch :D
nwp
nwp
nice
Oh C++17
when will thou become standardized
in 2018, of course
@LucDanton but compilerum wix not adoptim
@Borgleader "tens all the way down", of course. And if you're really that tense, you should probably find a job with a company that brings in a masseuse every week or so. Either that or I should...
20:23
@JerryCoffin wut
:37774818 Of course it's legal. As long as it's legitimately massage, not...happy endings.
@JerryCoffin Didn't stop certain people from getting certain happy endings I believe
#wolfofwallstreetisrealsomewhere
@VermillionAzure Lots of people break the law all the time, of course. Then you have idiots like me who had the chance, and didn't--not because we're so honest, but because we're too dumb to recognize the chance.
@JerryCoffin some laws aren't meant to be broken
some laws aren't even real
and some are unwritten
@JerryCoffin What's a lawyer's favorite body part?
@VermillionAzure ...and some are real, and written, and meant to be followed--and get broken anyway.
20:29
--Clawse
@VermillionAzure Whichever one has a cast on it.
@JerryCoffin no that's the doctor
@VermillionAzure Nah--injury is an opportunity for a lawsuit ("ambulance chasers").
@JerryCoffin Oh then they can get married
@VermillionAzure GCC and Clang are already feature-complete language-wise.
Only the big library parts are still lacking.
20:31
@Morwenn Well yes but they're not in the default Ubuntu version :(
The repos are a bit behind
@VermillionAzure That's not the compilers problem :p
Also I don't use Ubuntu directly so I don't give much of a fuck x)
@VermillionAzure Years ago, I'd slept wrong (or something). My neck was so sore I could barely turn my head. Decided to get a massage, and called around trying to find a place where I could get an appointment immediately. Finally get a place that says, no problem, if you can come in now we can do it right away. I go and get the massage, and at the end she's asking of she can do anything else. Anything else at all. Was I sure there wasn't something else that would make me feel better.
I'm believe that not all language problems should just be solved by a compiler
@JerryCoffin Ah.
@Morwenn wat do u use bb
@VermillionAzure Wasn't until years later that I told a friend about it, and he pointed out what she was obviously trying to get at, and I was too dumb to realize it... :-|
@VermillionAzure Windows + MinGW
20:34
@Morwenn that doesn't tell me too much
Because MinGW has different flavors and environments
@JerryCoffin lol
MinGW-w64 32bits with POSIX threads and dwarf exceptions. GCC 7.1 version, built by mingw-builds.
@Morwenn ah so you have no package manager
figures
I'm way too dumb to use a package manager.
@Morwenn wat
Get MSYS2
much better experience at least for shell and getting everything IMO
Don't care.
20:39
no need to use CMD or PowerShell,
If I actually wanted a decent shell and package manager, I wouldn't use Windows in the first place.
@VermillionAzure More like Git bash actually.
@Morwenn It's pretty much the same thing
Without the features.
I prefer to use MSYS2 because it uses a package manager. That's the most convenient part of it
@JerryCoffin Too dumb, or simply married? :P
20:42
@Borgleader I was still single at the time.
@Borgleader I guess I could try to blame part of it on my neck still being sore, so I was distracted--but to be honest, it's probably entirely my own stupidity and lack of perception.
I know for a fact that I would have totally missed the clues.
(unless they're really obvious)
I guess I'd mostly miss/ignore clues x)
Taking « not giving a fuck » to a whole new level.
Is it Sean Parent's talk? (where he essentially reduces dozens of lines of code like... std::rotate)
Good evening ladies, gentlemen and Jerry Coffin
2
@Borgleader It's Kevlin Henney.
-6
Q: Temporarily blocked accounts from asking questions

Ahmad Abu MaizarOn Stack Overflow, if account A is blocked from asking questions and you post a question from account B (different account) and used the former one's (A) email address as a mean for sending notifications, you receive an email reporting an error and the question gets posted under the blocked accou...

> Guys, I killed someone and changed by identity to avoid getting caught. But I left a forwarding address to my old place so people can find me. Why did I still get caught?
^ /cc @Borgleader
@Mysticial rofl
@StackedCrooked Oh hes great
21:12
@Mysticial I've totally never been in that situation before. It's imcomprehensiburu to me
21:29
So why are computer parts more expensive in Europe than in the US? Is it an export issue? It's not like Intel's fabs are all in the US.
Some German site listed the October Skylake X parts at 30% markup from the US prices.
My point is, I am a beginner, I m expected to ask poor and good questions, and speaking for myself, I spend hours of search before I even think about asking a question. I m trying hard here and I m really proud to learn from the best — Ahmad Abu Maizar 12 mins ago
These people.
@Mysticial nah, they just use the Euro. It remind me a friend from france could buy let say X computer for 2500 euro and that same computer in Canada for 2500$.
@StackedCrooked I think I saw that example in another talk because I remember this, but I dont think it was that background
Yep. I've seen in in one or two of his other talks as well.
Still, I think it's a great example. I've gone through this kind of cleanup process a couple of times.
Then I hope my colleagues will see the light. Most of them do. Some don't.
The latter should be put against the wall! :P
It's not like anyone is going to say that X computer at 2500$ is actually worth 1694 euro in europe.
I remember there was also price difference with license on software such as photoshop. Where it was as expensive to buy a license in Australia as buy a plane ticket to fly to California and buy it from there.
21:50
@LoïcFaure-Lacroix Well the 7980XE is only supposed to be $2000 USD. And then there's this: overclock.net/t/1632855/…
I can't comment on the credibility of it since the launch is still a few months out.
22:22
am I missing something are a lot of older Intel Xeon processors more powerful than existing and new ones?
have we really reached that point?
22:45
You do learn from the best. Often the first thing you learn is how to ask the right questions, and accepting guidance. — sehe 8 secs ago
23:13
@utopia Improvements have been minimal for quite a while now, so in the same class, newer ones are a little (but only a little) faster than older ones. But, if you look at similar prices, you may be able to compare an older one that's one or two classes "above" a new one, and performance growth has been slow enough that the older one might easily be faster than anything you can get new for a similar price.
At one time this was hardly true at all--even an extremely high-end quad-socket Pentium box was normally quite a bit slower than a fairly bog-standard single-socket Pentium Pro.
@JerryCoffin ah ok, thought I was going crazy. Thanks :)
@JerryCoffin Can't wait to see what AMD does to Intel on the server side.
It used to be (and currently is), that if you wanted anything more than like 8 core, you had to go dual-socket even though Intel had 20+core chips.
You can't have a single-socket 16 core?
That move was intentional to charge you more for the dual-socket. And we all know that dual-sockets also suck for performance.
Oh, wait you're talking about AMD.
23:26
@StackedCrooked Technically you can, if you took one of those over-priced dual-socket chips and placed them in a single-socket board. But you're still paying for all interconnect which you don't need in a single-socket configuration.
@StackedCrooked Intel.
Oh.
@Mysticial Hm. That's a bummer.
Nehalem was the last (Intel) generation where the highest core-count CPU was available for single-socket.
AMD at the very least is starting to force Intel to put some of their high-core-count chips into the single-socket line. Only up to 18 cores though. But they have 28 core chips which they're still hold back for multi-socket server only.
OTOH, for Skylake, the server and HEDT sockets are different. The server sockets are significantly larger, so Intel may have a legitimate reason to not put 28 cores into a single-socket HEDT.
But we won't really know how Intel responds until at least a year since they obviously can't re-spin their processors that quickly.
Interesting.
@StackedCrooked Nice talk, thanks.
Intel still has the clock speed and slight IPC advantage over AMD atm. (along with the AVX stuff) So I don't think it's too late for them to go for the kill if they priced things right.
23:33
@CaptainGiraffe We need more stuff like this :)
And by "priced things right", I mean slash their prices by a factor of 3. Take the revenue hit while you run AMD out of money.
@Mysticial For years IBM's gone even further: the top clock speeds were only available in the biggest servers.
What's the fundamental difference between the desktop i7/i9 CPUs and the Xeons? Can I put a Core i9 in a server chassis?
I should probably consult Google for that.
@StackedCrooked The HEDT chips and server chips are the same. But the desktop ones have their interconnects disabled. And typically have cores disabled.
The desktop ones are unlocked and overclockable. The server ones not.
Ever since Intel took the monopoly, there have been no overclockable servers.
@Mysticial I'd love to be the one at the IT department responsible for overclocking ;)
23:39
The HEDT chips are intentionally crippled and restricted to low-core-counts so prevent people from buying those instead and eating into their server market.
Intel also stopped selling overclockable processors that differ only by clock speeds.
Because everybody would buy the cheapest one and overclock it up to the highest one.
That's what happened to the original Nehalem Core i7s.
On the HEDT line, there's a lot more cores. So they can choose to price discriminate not by frequency, but by core count.
Nasty bastards. Don't they have money enough already? :P
In the past, all cores were enabled. And you can only sell at the model which you can clock it up to. Now, if a core can't clock to a certain speed, they just disable that core.
You can overclock from a lower frequency to a higher frequency. But you can't overclock 4 cores to 6.
(For a time, AMD had some 3 core chips which could be unlocked via BIOS to 4 cores. But there was no guarantee that the 4th core even worked - let alone at the same speed as the other cores.)
I used to have a Duron 800. That was a long ago.
It was known for being very overclockable.
But to unlock it I needed to connect some circuits using a pencil.
I learned about that from an overclocking guide. It actually worked.
> Note the gaps in the L1 bridges, all you need to connect the bridges is a led pencil, this will unlock your cpu multiplier, allowing you to change the multiplier in the bios, or through the manual jumpers.
23:51
I've read about similar mods that would unlock certain core 2 generation dual-socket Xeons.
I had one myself, but I never dared to try it.
It also wouldn't have helped in my case.
@StackedCrooked They do make a lot of money. But they need to make a lot of money too. Just for example, they recently started work on a new 7 nm fab, which they figure will cost around $7 billion to get started. The good point is that they can "milk" that a little longer than they used to. They used to need to make a profit margin high enough to pay off a fab in ~2 years. Now they can plan on 3 or 4 years (and for 7 nm, probably even more than that).
Wow, $7 billion is a lot of money.
@StackedCrooked That's why there are so few companies left that own and build new fabs. Even IBM decided to get out of that business, and paid Global Foundries a chunk of money to take their fab a while back (well, essentially gave them the fab, and paid them to guarantee that IBM's orders would get top priority).
The big challenge is to produce them cheaply?
I suppose.
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