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12:01 AM
@Borgleader ???
 
Dont' forget, pronouns change over time.
Eg, "You" is now singular, again.
 
@Arafangion How about, "You, the people" ?
 
Yeah, you have to revert to the now archaic form for that. :) I guess the ", the people" emphasises which meaning you intended, so it's clearer.
I see this is a PTSD forum, but... I actually like C++ and wish I could use it in my day job. :/
My day job... Is Delphi!
(Basically: C++ with exceptions but without exception-safety, and without RAII)
 
@Arafangion ????????????????????????????????????
Isn't Delphi a mutation of Pascal that was popular and now is old?
 
@Arafangion oh, you poor, poor soul
 
12:09 AM
Delphi is a mutation of Object-Pascal, yes. And yes, it's been dying a slow death over decades.
 
@VermillionAzure It was once (more) widely used. I'm certain that it was ever really popular.
 
It was a seriously fantastic environment for DOS and Windows development.
Could (and still can) get a single .exe that works "anywhere" (where "anywhere" means windows - go figure...)
Syntax is a little verbose, but it's actually quite decent, I just wish that pointers weren't so vague. :( The compiler infers whether you want to use &'s or *'s. :(
Blew my mind when sizeof(char) suddenly became 2, rather than 1, though. ;)
 
Hmmmm
@Arafangion but why?
 
I develop in Legacy Code from time to time, for work.
 
I see
Sounds nice
I've never really used a great editor that does everything I want it to do and teaches it so that it fits like a glove...
Nothing does that
 
12:16 AM
Same. I keep bouncing between editors. I use vim a lot, but played a bit with emacs but it seems that emacs is really only good for emacs users. Not so good for new users - it has a lot of quirks.
These days though, I find visual studio code is remarkably good.
But I often still prefer vim.
 
I prefer Vim
but I think Vim is not optimal for Java work
 
emacs is probably a bit better for Java work, but why use Java?
Why not Kotlin or something?
/me prefers Delphi to Java(!)
Though perhaps I'm unfair to Java... I don't mind C#, yet intellectually I know that Java is a bit better than C#.
 
@Arafangion Because work requires it
 
Ah, we're in the same boat then, but with different languages.
Java, at least, has covariant return types - which C# doesn't have.
 
what are covariant return types
 
12:22 AM
It's when a subclass can return a more specialised type.
Eg, a classic example is to have Object.clone() return an object, but subclasses can redefine that to return a more specific subclass of object.
 
@Arafangion ???
 
C#'s lack of covariant return type can be emulated with explicit interface implementation sometimes, which is fine
 
Oh you mean like: return Cat when the return type is Animal?
 
Vermillion: Yes, like Cat cat = theCat.clone(); // Without a cast.
 
@VermillionAzure class Cat extends Object { @Override public Cat clone() { /* overrides Object.clone(), even though that one returns Object, not Cat /* } }
 
12:25 AM
milleniumbug: Do you have an example of that in C#?
 
@Arafangion IMO I consider that a flaw
 
@ver
 
But, then again, Java objects are sort of like Pointers already so meh.
 
@VermillionAzure: Sometimes it's useful.
 
@Arafangion No, of course it is
But I don't like how the polymorphism is not-explicit
@Arafangion The fact that there's no distinctions between polymorphic and non-polymorphic values in the type system is a bit interesting and maybe bad
like, then, what is the size of an Animal?
 
12:29 AM
Well, you already have contravariance.
That's a very difficult question in Java or C#, what is the size of an Animal?
(Why does it matter, anyway? It's not a value type)
 
@Arafangion Because in C++, regular types are value types. It's only if you choose to represent it as a pointer that it's not.
And I say value loosely, not in the sense of the standard
 
Well, C++ also has covariant return types, funnily enough.
 
@Arafangion dotnetfiddle.net/bjZxaV - note that it's only an emulation
but IME it works often enough
 
@Arafangion But I don't believe so...
@Arafangion I don't believe it's idiomatic at all because of splicing
I mean, it compiles, but you never want to do this.
 
milleniumbug: Which "Magic" gets called if you use (a as Thingy).Magic() ?
@VermillionAzure: "never" is a strong word.
 
12:35 AM
@Arafangion The one that returns object
 
@milleniumbug: Yeah, that's a problem, and a limitation of the emulation.
 
@Arafangion Then why would you ever want to splice if you can achieve a similar thing using casts, copy/move + elision, or pointers/references to prevent splicing?
 
nah, this is how covariant return types work too
 
@milleniumbug: It's a problem because it's very, very easy to have a different implementation for the two methods, unintentionally.
@VermillionAzure: You still have covariant return types if you "avoid splicing" by using a reference.
 
@Arafangion Of course. I'm arguing that usage of covariance should be explicit in the typing system
 
12:40 AM
@VermillionAzure: In hindsight, an explicit "compile-time covariance cast" would work well in C++.
 
@Arafangion For example, having arrays of objects just "works" with Java. In C++, you can't do that -- the arrays need to hold covariant-enabled references or pointers to those objects to prevent splicing
 
Splicing isn't neccessarily bad.
 
@Arafangion Splicing is usually not desired
 
Shit, I just drank spoiled milk.
 
Especially if you're playing with side-effects
 
12:41 AM
half a glass before I realized
 
Side effects are bad!
 
I fear the unknown
 
@Arafangion yes, this is a problem
 
@Columbo: You're probably fine, how do you think yoghurt is made? ;)
 
@Arafangion It was pasteurized. IIRC that's bad.
 
12:42 AM
@Columbo: of course, it depends on what /other/ bacteria you have floating about.
 
I'd say it's not that frequent because one look at your explicit implementation, you see "hah, it's not named the same", and the bug is exposed
 
Well, it also just wasn't that spoiled.
It tasted sweet.
 
of course this requires manual inspection
 
Sweeter than usual, but just a bit.
 
@Columbo: The bacteria you had probably reacted with the lactose, producing glucose or something.
 
12:43 AM
this could be possibly automated with a Roslyn analyzer
 
@milleniumbug: Speaking of that, I've been very impressed with libclang lately.
 
@Arafangion There were also clumps at the bottom of the glass, as I found out when I emptied it into the sink
It was spoiled, but whatever, I'll just hope it'll be fine
 
@VermillionAzure Do you mean slicing rather than splicing?
@Columbo Pasteurized milk is pretty safe, even when it's gone bad enough that you'd notice the nasty smell before you got the glass close to your mouth.
 
@Arafangion libclang is nice, I mean, relatively nice. It still takes much effort to support stuff because you're never sure if your analyzer supports a given combination of C++ features
 
True enough.
 
12:56 AM
but it's not the fault of libclang
 
1:11 AM
@JerryCoffin I'm gonna sleep like a baby now. Thanks daddy!
 
@Columbo Surely. Sleep well...
 
@JerryCoffin Hey, I need your advice with this girl. (This is legit.) We get along great, but I feel like she's a bit boring, because she works all day and plays videogames and stuff..
This does sound hypocritical, hmm.
 
@Xeo Watching Alice to Zouroku now.
 
@Columbo Would you do a lot more active, exciting things if she wasn't around (and be honest)?
 
@JerryCoffin Is wanking exciting? jk
No, I would do the exact same :D
I just always thought that I should get someone who is the polar opposite
Like a social person that compensates for my solitary approach to life
I wonder how happy two solitary people can be, is what I'm asking.
 
1:17 AM
@Columbo It's all a question of what you find exciting. Some people are excited about collecting stamps or coins and find active sports and such boring. Others, of course, the opposite.
 
@Columbo: Scheduled date nights - also, scheduled weekends away (I go camping)
 
@JerryCoffin Good point. I guess an extrovert wouldn't really comprehend me, anyway
 
> Hudson and Fraley found that partners who see themselves as similar have more satisfying relationships, regardless of whether or not they actually are very similar.
This does apply. Interesting.
@Arafangion And your partners like camping? I mean, I did a fair bit of fishing when I was younger. I would definitely be down for that. Except I am allergic to sea food, so we'd have to get separate food :P
 
1:54 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sell it on an exchange.
You open an account with an exchange (a reputable one, avoid Bitfinex at the moment). Transfer your doges to your account there, sell on the market for currency, then transfer to your bank account.
 
reminds me that I have a couple of stuff I need to sell in the garage to make space
 
my garage is just full of bitcoins, i can't even get my car in there
 
I wish
There are slightly less than 2 rolls of this:
 
2:12 AM
Hows the pepe market holding up?
 
is that the stuff to cover your car windows on hot days?
 
@Mikhail lol
 
@Cauterite similar purpose, it's for insulating the house
 
oh yeah i remember that, goes around the fibreglass right?
 
I wonder who builds houses with fibreglasses :p
house != tent
 
2:20 AM
So I'm thinking of building a 72x10 TB computer, but I have no clue if it can be driven by a single RAID card.
 
Would it run Skyrim
 
@Columbo She loves camping, yeah.
 
@RudiantoPrasetya no because Xeon underclocks on AVX instructions
 
@Telkitty don't houses have fibreglass where you live?
 
err, the one I live in is brick veneer - wood structure with single layer of bricks
the one we build is of steel structure
yeah I know, very old fashioned
 
2:31 AM
well my house is also wood structure with single layer of bricks,
but between the wood is fibreglass
 
I thought that brick veneer was modern?
Steel's great - no termites.
 
@Cauterite Oo, I got what you mean: you are talking about insulation batts
 
yeah, those
 
that's right
the reflective insulation layer is outside insulation batts but inside the outer layer (be that cladding, brick or other material
 
mm that's how i've seen it in my house
 
2:50 AM
Damn it. Accidentally started a huge application in a tiny loop, on windows.
for(;;) LaunchApplication(); // Pseudo-code, the actual code was more subtle.
 
try logging out
 
try to kill it in the task manager
 
I did kill it using the task manager... Tediously, one by one.
@Cauterite: I didn't want to kill the IDE setup I had.
 
i think my task manager has a "terminate process tree" option for cases like this
 
Sadly, I had lauched them as separate, distinct tree's.
 
2:56 AM
yeah process trees are such a joke in windows
 
Indeed. Anyway, Lunch!
 
prepare the lunch codes
 
java code has a lot of redundant letters
for example, I would love to do:
 
@Telkitty quite the understatement imo
 
int i = 3;
i.toString();
but currently I have to do: Integer.toString(i);
so annoying
 
3:04 AM
or (new Integer(3)).toString() i guess
distinct primitive vs. object types is such a terrible idea
i could almost tolerate java if i could just replace this:
`Foo x = new Foo();`
with
`auto x = new Foo();`
 
never tolerate java under any circumstances ever
 
yeah on second thought java can burn in hell; that whole language is an abomination
5
 
Hey fellas, have you heard about K O T L I N? K O T L I N is a K O T L I N language that K O T L I N K O T L I N K O T L I N K O T L I N K O T L I N K O T L I N K O T L I N
5
Pee, the language is seriously called pee
holy shite, they also have pee sharp github.com/p-org/PSharp
Did MS write some tool that automatically converts a language to .net?
 
"a programming language designed for uncertainty"
great, i love uncertainty in my program logic
 
the pee compiler
 
3:18 AM
where's the P++ compiler "peepeepee.exe"
 
using pee to control a quadrocopter
looks like /r/programmingcirclejerk is leaking
 
ew
 
Anyways, I'm writing Shaz Qadeer a half assed email without a subject line about this
 
Plebidonax deltoides (previously Donax deltoides) is a small, edible saltwater clam or marine bivalve mollusc of the family Donacidae, endemic to Australia. It is most widely known as the pipi in the eastern states of its native Australia, and as the Goolwa cockle or Coorong cockle in South Australia; in south-eastern Queensland, it is often also known as eugarie or (y)ugari, a borrowing from the local Yugarabul language. This species should not be confused with the bivalve Paphies australis (of the family Mesodesmatidae), endemic to New Zealand and also called "pipi". == Life cycle == P. deltoides...
 
should have called it rho
 
 
2 hours later…
5:16 AM
@RudiantoPrasetya It's done. I am now the proud owner of 0 doges.
 
And eleventeen bullion yuros
 
I will shortly be the proud, jealous owner of one espresso.
 
@RudiantoPrasetya Already imagining me telling my grandsons the story of how I got rich with dogecoin.
 
My mum called my chicken a grandma chicken, then called her bald because the hen is molting. So now I have a bald grandma chicken. Actually I probably don't have a pet chicken anymore because she ran away this morning and currently is probably on neighbour's property
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Joke aside some people really became multi-millionaires this way.
 
5:26 AM
consider whether to rename the pet chicken to 'bald grandma' when she comes back this evening
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes how much $ worth of dogs did you have?
 
(($:@(<#[), (=#[), $:@(>#[)) ({~ ?@#)) ^: (1<#)
What language is this? J? APL? /cc @rightfold the esoterist
 
emoticons gone wrong @:^{)
 
probably not APL, since it's all ASCII
 
would asking for help in converting a piece of C code to another language be considered off topic on the main site? I'm not having issues with the syntax differences so much as some minor finagling with what values to initialize certain things to. I can't quite seem to get it right.
 
5:31 AM
still sounds like SO material to me
 
@Cauterite ~$360.
 
> IEEE floating point numbers are in fact not floating point and not even numbers at all.
what does that even mean
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah very nice
 
@RudiantoPrasetya It means that the author is an idiot.
 
@TheGreatDuck dumping the code and asking for a solution is likely going to be poorly received, but the way you talk about the situation I expect you can extract a perfectly suitable question out of it
 
5:32 AM
> Math requires real numbers to have a zero element.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Indeed
 
@TheGreatDuck: Don't know - but what is the other language?
@TheGreatDuck: And what sort of "converting" did you want?
 
> Maths requires real numbers addiction to have associativity.
Junkie numbers.
 
@RudiantoPrasetya: What about Imaginary numbers?
 
@Arafangion game maker. gamemaker.info/en/manual/400_index
i already can convert it
the issue is dealing with certain constants in the code
 
> That being said, shouldn’t fast, complex and unpredictable native types from the past be an option and not a default?
what
 
5:34 AM
I'm trying to stuff a dynamic memory allocator into an array
the issue is the initialization of it
cause it doesn't normally start at index 0
(for obvious reasons such as 0 being reserved for null)
 
If you can, define an abstraction that does start at 0, to ease the conversion.
Eg, a new function get_array_index_cpp(array, 0), and that function will provide the neccessary offsets.
Unfortunate that GameMaker made their own language.
 
I don't understand this article.
 
@Arafangion no that's not really the problem. The problem is that the initialization in c uses a bunch of operating system function/library functions to set up the space for the heap to sit in
the issue is quite literally starting it
 
@TheGreatDuck: What's the C array in question?
 
@RudiantoPrasetya AFAICT, it's a series of ludicrous claims used to try and convince you that it's your fault that C++ doesn't define signed overflows.
 
5:38 AM
@Arafangion wat...
that made no sense
 
@TheGreatDuck: You are trying to rewrite a C array in gamemaker?
 
doesn't gamemaker language give you a heap automatically?
 
there is no array in C
NO
 
@TheGreatDuck: C does have arrays.
(They decay to pointers very quickly, unfortunately, but within the scope they are defined, they are arrays).
 
@Cauterite the problem is that their pointers are literally allowed to stop referencing what they were set to. Cannot build any linked structures unless you implement it yourself.
@Arafangion No, I mean I wasn't doing anything with arrays in C
I have an implementation of a dynamic memory allocator in C
it works in virtual memory
I'm trying to convert it to an equivalent that sits in an array in game maker
 
5:40 AM
so you're trying to port the memory manager into gamemaker?
 
@Cauterite you hit it on the head
 
and gamemaker doesn't have a native/adequate memory manager of its own?
 
no
it's like javascript
but where javascript has broken arrays, game maker has broken references
 
javascript has a memory manager though
 
but you cannot allocate raw memory blocks
you can only allocate objects
 
5:42 AM
@TheGreatDuck: I think the pragmatic thing to do is to just expose a C api, and use it as an extension.
 
You somehow went from C to GameMaker to memory allocators to JavaScript all within 5 minutes
 
@Arafangion cough free version cough
 
@TheGreatDuck what about Uint8Array ?
 
idk
whatever
i was making a comparison
 
so the way you're porting the code from C to gamemaker means you need to emulate low-level memory access, something like that?
 
5:44 AM
@TheGreatDuck: Then... I'd suggest developing a database for it, of some sort. You have two-dimensional arrays, that can be mapped to "tables".
 
> Officers arrest 21 over faked concrete test results for Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau bridge project
laff
I'm not taking that bridge thx
 
@Cauterite no. I need to create linked structures like trees and stuff. i cannot use the native objects as "references will be shuffled between frames".
 
ah well i don't know what that means anyway, probably need someone who's used GM language before
i.e. make an SO question
 
@Arafangion I already have the code in the C version. I'm just asking if it is off topic for me to ask about making the little 20 line initialization portion work properly?
 
@TheGreatDuck: I'd tag it gamemakerlanguage, GML, or something.
 
5:46 AM
@Cauterite actually the code is all c-style array manipulation at this point, so it's really applicable to anyone who can manipulate array indices decently.
 
@TheGreatDuck: Whilst I think it's a shitty situation, it's a very valid question, and as such, it's very appropriate.
 
@Arafangion but there isn't anything special that has any relation to game maker. The same code (in theory) could stuff an allocator into a java array (barring minor irrelevant syntax changes).
 
@TheGreatDuck: Arguably, but in Java, there are other techniques.
 
true
but I didn't say it would be useful in java, now did I?
 
Well, no, but you could expose a C api and use that from Java.
 
5:48 AM
granted, java arrays do not automatically extend themselves
that sounds a lot messier.
 
whatever you tag it, just post the question already, no one can help you with your conceptual description of the problem
 
> Chinese mother who stepped on toddler in Zhejiang street tells police she was frustrated and broke
 
Java has lists and other containers.
 
I love reading China news
 
@RudiantoPrasetya lol
 
5:49 AM
It's so absurd
 
@Cauterite fair enough. I'm getting there. I wasn't planning to post it right now. tbh, I was just coming here to ask if it was allowed real quick before I dash out. :p
 
@TheGreatDuck: I keep tripping over how you call it an "array" - arrays in C don't extend themselves, either.
 
@Arafangion I never said anything about an array in c
dynamic memory allocators are not arrays
 
at least C has realloc()
 
> Chinese student who praised US fresh air and freedom apologises after backlash in China
 
5:50 AM
@TheGreatDuck: Anyways, it's a valid question, just ask it, and possibly refine it.
 
> “I feel so ashamed of her humiliating our country in front of the whole university. China is such a great developing country and I’ve always been proud of being a Chinese. I don’t understand why the hell she’s doing this. What a loser,” wrote one Chinese commenter on YouTube, which is blocked in China.
9
the irony levels
 
I'd find it hard to be proud of belonging to a country that doesn't have good samaritan laws.
 
or, like, doesn't uphold basic human rights
 
@Cauterite: Indeed, as an Australian, that's an issue.
 
5:54 AM
guilty until proven innocent m8
quality legal system
 
@Cauterite: Only if you don't have money.
 
let's see if I can find another quality article
> Common wild bird now endangered thanks to Chinese gourmets
there you go
 
i've always wondered how seagulls taste
 
> A study in the journal Conservation Biology found that between 1980 and 2013, the population of the birds fell by almost 90 per cent.
so basically went from Least Concern to Endangered in a mere 3 decades
 
@RudiantoPrasetya That's a first, right?
:/
 

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