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12:12 AM
Not as thick as all the stupid commenters coming straight from Breitbart. https://twitter.com/arghwhippets/status/857169051050704897
I'm shocked at the level of anti-knowledge in response to the Cassini updates.
It does not make me optimistic about the future of mankind.
Or at least not the population numbers that we've seen in the last centuries. I'm afraid we won't be able to sustain those, simply because we lack predators. We lack an incentive to improve and therefore we can become ignorant. And therefore we must become ignorant. Which will lead to our downfall.
Time for bed. Night all.
 
@SpongyFruitcake I've never even sustained a bruise from writing C++
 
@Borgleader oh goodness
like having a warm cloud for a friend :)
 
@Telkitty You installed it.
 
12:31 AM
@jaggedSpire yessss, heaven on earth
 
@SpongyFruitcake HoT feature to come out roughly 2 years after announcement
 
12:46 AM
@sehe is there any specific reason for singling out Breitbart other than your personal political preference?
 
> In this section we'll use a monstrous type
 
fluff attack
speaking of which, I have sighted at least 4 wild/feral hare/bunnies in the neighbourhood
given the rate they are reproducing, we could end up with parkland filled with feral/wild rabbits/hares and their hybrids
 
1:08 AM
set the emus on them
 
If we had a military division with the bullet-carrying capacity of these birds it would face any army in the world... They can face machine guns with the invulnerability of tanks. They are like Zulus whom even dum-dum bullets could not stop.[15]
 
@Mysticial heh
 
1:41 AM
military chicken farm
ninja fighter chickens
 
UEBS has fighter chickens.
 
imagine this is your army:
 
2:04 AM
 
@Borgleader :D
 
3:51 AM
> Language English
> Language Asia
> Language Europe
> Language Simplified Chinese
 
4:33 AM
@LucDanton so that's why the 400 employees, I guess
 
4:46 AM
@Telkitty Imagine what could a flamethrower do with that! :)
 
that's mean :/
 
@Telkitty I know! Bwahaha!
 
my pet chicken pecks on me when I do something that makes her unhappy - like pet her with my feet
 
5:36 AM
@EuriPinhollow Yeah that's sensible. I documented what was the cause of the warnings and disabled them
 
6:15 AM
@Mikhail D: D: D: D: D:
 
7:03 AM
@EuriPinhollow some posts are just bad
> Someone would love to hire a Codementor for a new job related to your expertise:

pick a functional language and implement some algorithm or data structure in it.
gosh
 
7:17 AM
apparently people can't use anything not in JS nowadays
 
Huh
We're integrating some sort of DRM on our library (it's internal to the company, never shipped outside of it)
I don't know how the guy who developed the thing did it
But if I did I think I'ld become instantly bald, like Andy
 
@BartekBanachewicz What do you mean
 
>in Nodejs style
> runs Lua
 
Maybe it's called "node" for a completely different reason
 
@SpongyFruitcake like what?
 
7:32 AM
Well in a microcontroller mesh an individual microcontroller is called a node
 
well I'm pretty positive that they didn't mean that
 
Well there's only one way to know and it's to ask them
 
Got some good idea inspired by this fishing mail..
https://twitter.com/_odisseus/status/857479865221754880
Idea is kinda simple.. Write the chrome browser extension which supports integration with maiing services like hotmail/gmail.. it's primary feature is to able to parse the source of email and display user friendly information about sender like spamcop does.
 
7:53 AM
Guise, hairy C++ question
How can I detect the presence and absence of a member typedef
 
SFINAE on type_to_expr<typename Arg::member> {} or similar
 
How would I do that
 
a negative doesn’t necessarily mean that there is no member type, it can mean there is a member but it doesn’t conform (e.g. member data, member function, member template etc.)
@Rerito same way you normally SFINAE
 
Bonus question: Can I deduce that Base<Derived, SomePolicy> is the base of Derived without using the reference trick, IOW only using the type Derived
 
8:08 AM
@Rerito yes if it’s unambiguous enough, via partial spec matching
 
I'm stuck here
Oh I think I have an idea
I just lack the sfinae part
 
@Rerito that sfinaes alright
well up to deducer to be specific
 
I need to sfinae that deducer thingy so that it deduces void if SomePolicy<T>::type isn't defined
With that I'ld be good to go I guess
 
my suggestion would be to separate concerns: fetch the base, fetch the policy, evaluate the policy with a default
 
So first, a policy_deducer that enables me to get Policy<T>
Then, from Policy<T>, I have to SFINAE to act on its type member if it exists or do nothing
I am stuck on that last part
 
8:25 AM
the thing to keep in mind is that typename Policy<T>::member is already SFINAE friendly by itself, so you can already work from here
there isn’t a definite answer because presumably your real code doesn’t want to just print the result of std::is_same
 
yeah, my code wants to do an actual processing if Policy<T>::member is there, and nothing if it isn't
I simulate that processing with that std::is_same statement
 
you can put the processing in one overload, the default in another and call that
make the overloads non-overlapping with sfinae tools, e.g. that sort of stuff
@Rerito the gist of it is that pre-C++1z you 'consume' SFINAE with function template overloads or partial class templates
C++1z gives constexpr if as well
 
@LucDanton I must have seen it but I can't remember how to do it here
Some sort of brain failure or smth
 
I suppose an is_valid is more appropriate than the full is_detected machinery, gimme a sec
@Rerito what would the return type be?
 
@LucDanton The processing returns void in both case
 
8:36 AM
alright, then you can hack it with void_t<typename Policy<T>::type>
and another hack for making the other overload less preferred
 
If the member is detected, I perform a call to a static member template, like that: Policy<T>::member::call<OtherType>();
 
how many hacks do you want?
 
This call always returns void
 
the hacky way so that you can go 'wtf was I thinking' in a couple of months
 
hacky way seems easier to read, no variadic templates
just add a comment above that it's a dirty hack and you're good to go
 
8:49 AM
The variadic templates are a way of implementing the std::is_detected stuff
Now, are you ready for the hammer @LucDanton?...
 
in a couple of months you would forget it :D
 
... It has to work with VS 2010 /cc @SpongyFruitcake
So I guess I'll have to use the hack and even then, using alias declarations are not supported by VS2010
 
@Rerito Give iy up.
 
then go with even dirtier stuff like preprocessor directives :D
and rant about MSVS 2010 in the comments
 
Can't, it's a reasoning on types
How can it be related to preprocessor directives
 
8:51 AM
I mean, people should see the hack and immediately be sad about using MSVS 2010
just to add to the messyness
btw, right now I have an opened 2010 through RDP, but I am messing with converting debug symbols to pdb from dwarf and crashdumps, so it's slightly less crazy
so I am not only hating 2010 as well, but doing it right now
 
Ok, so without using, it can't be done...
 
9:10 AM
@Rerito these are for convenience (and some refactoring), you can inline them
e.g. substitute void_t<blah> by typename void_type<blah>::type
 
@LucDanton And without using, how can I make that policy_t
 
@Rerito inline it
 
because if I do something like template <typename T> struct policy_t { typedef typename T::type; }; I'll get an error when T has no member type
 
yeah don’t do that
 
Inline it how?
 
9:16 AM
don’t replace an alias by a metafunction, replace every point of use of each alias by what it stands for
 
I don't follow
 
I don’t know what to tell you, it’s a fundamental thing. the opposite of abstraction
 
In the end I can't use that valid_alias_application at all, right?
 
replace the general valid_alias_application by a specific valid_policy_application, substituting Alias which stands for policy_t which stands for the thing, by the thing
 
(Even a more restricted one, taking only <template <typename> class, typename, typename> as template parameters instead of using variadics)
 
9:21 AM
i.e. remove a function parameter and a constant to replace it by hard-coded stuff
 
that’s in fact the difference between the hack and non-hack versions: at one end of the spectrum you have a big ad-hoc, just-works-for-this-case solution which is undecypherable; at the other end you have something built from tiny, refactored and clear in purpose pieces
@Rerito void_t is missing a using type = void; member
 
@LucDanton Yeah, I removed it thinking I was removing the type member of SomePolicy :|
 
9:51 AM
I don’t have PS/2 peripherals and I need to install a USB driver for Windows before I can mouse/keyboard, am I hosed?
 
Oh for god sake, I forgot
VS 2010 doesn't have declval yet
6
 
Yet another botnet is growing..
http://securityaffairs.co/wordpress/58415/malware/hajime-botnet.html
 
Anonymous
@Telkitty I have a few questions..
 
yeah?
 
user1804599
10:27 AM
Unvaccinated children are less likely to be autistic because they are more likely to be dead.
19
 
user1804599
👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
 
@Rerito hopefully someday you finally will be able to use the latest edition of VS
 
10:40 AM
@ProblemSlover When Rerito finally gets the anticipated upgrade he is forced to use that version for the rest of his life.
 
11:12 AM
@rightfold you can still be autistic when you're dead, you don't suddenly get cured of it when you die
 
yeah but as-if rule applies
you can't tell if a dead person is autistic or isn't so you may optimize autism out
 
@Mgetz How does autism manifest itself in dead children?
 
@Horttanainen in the fact they had it when they died and therefor still are technically autistic. Just like a person that dies from Heart Disease isn't cured of it by death
 
@Rerito "yet"
 
@Mgetz That makes no sense. If he dies of Heart Disease he isn't cured by it but definitely does not have it after death.
 
11:19 AM
@Horttanainen that's like saying you were forcibly removed from a country (life) but weren't deported. Doesn't work that way
 
I don't even... wtf. You can't tell if a dead person is autistic or not therefore the person is not autistic
 
I'm assuming the steady state of death
 
nwp
11:35 AM
@Horttanainen that would mean being dumb could cure autism
 
@nwp No. You just can't make a diagnose.
 
nwp
@Horttanainen that weakens your point to "You can't tell if a dead person is autistic or not, therefore the person cannot be diagnosed with autism" which is a lame claim
 
@nwp What does it mean to say that dead person has autism?
Autism is something you have to diagnose. You can say that a person who died of plague is still having the plague after death because the plague is still there. It is still transmittable
 
nwp
@Horttanainen I don't know. Maybe you can explain why the person acted in a certain way after diagnosing autism. Maybe the person has been dead for hundreds of years and you can compare the autism percentage between now and then to draw some conclusions.
If you mean to say it doesn't matter for a dead body if it has autism then that again is pretty lame.
 
12:00 PM
That discussion...
 
nwp
acute boredom may have been involved
 
@BartekBanachewicz Welp, I just declared it myself template <typename T> typename std::add_rvalue_reference<T>::type declval();
Could have made an implementation with a static_assert to be sure no one will call it tho but heh
I'm sure no one will ever read my code
 
99% of my code are not open source, about at least 70% of them are proprietary, owned by me
the other 30% are probably overwritten by someone else already too
 
12:15 PM
I'm regurlarly mocked for using heavily templated code
 
@Horttanainen It's a condition that exists in the brain. It can be measured (using live tests, anyways). Perhaps more passive analysis can also reveal it (but they don't do it because... it's hard to dissect brain tissue on live people and the analysis might be very expensive. However, I fully expect that at least severe cases of autism are physically manifest)
 
So when I do some C++11-esque shit, no one bothers to read it
 
Why? Because you don't need as much template menagerie?
 
nwp
@Rerito all good if they bother to use it
 
@nwp Maybe they will
I just made a Singleton framework
With Allocation and Scheduling policies
 
12:17 PM
Scheduling singletons. Weird.
 
nwp
ok, I would not use that
 
@Rerito There's Yer Sign
 
I suppose you mean some kind of task coordination that allows thread safe (aware) just-in-time creation?
 
@sehe Since our library is not multi-threaded, I did not factor that in y et
No I mean a way to manage how you clean up the singletons at the end
 
So, it's just prioritization, ala exit handler chaining?
 
12:19 PM
@Rerito don't?
 
Yes exactly
 
Or dependency managed? In that case, that's not scheduling
 
Both
 
@Rerito amazing
 
The main intent was to manage a set of object repositories
The stored objects can have dependencies between each other (accross different repos)
 
12:20 PM
Singletons are global variables
 
(But only in one direction, I forbid cycles)
 
this should be forced like a label on cigarettes on every tutorial
 
@BartekBanachewicz Yes, I am well aware of that thank you
 
May 24 '16 at 9:39, by Bartek Banachewicz
Before I came to the lounge I thought Singleton Objects are amazing
 
yep. I thought many things back then
 
12:21 PM
@Rerito (why do you do it then)
 
@sehe Because we need a global repository of objects to map generated IDs to actual objects for an Excel client
 
you think you do need that
but that's an X/Y problem
if it's not modelling hardware or isn't a super corner case then you shouldn't use globally accessible state, period
cue amazing designers who though that our "Agent" class will be only one per agent ever and now multi-agent-multi-way monitoring is coming and we're all royally fucked
 
My dependency manager is generic enough to be used with other things than singleton objects though
 
I mean ... the guy who worked on my website was fairly good
only until recently have I seen all the little details
I have not really been paying much attention to what's on my website
 
@Rerito No you don't. Global and local are relative. So you don't need it global. You just need a way to get at it.
 
12:27 PM
Has everybody had their say about dead autistic children? Is the discussion over?
 
use static
 
You didn't respond to me.
@Telkitty that's an amusing choice of words
 
@Telkitty This is a global variable in disguise. Just like @BartekBanachewicz highlighted just a bit earlier
@sehe What should I do then? Where my data should reside?
 
in a magical fairy dust :noel:
 
@Rerito Anywhere. Acceptable solutions are generally known under "dependency injection". As opposed to "dependency grabbing/unknown promiscuous dependencies" what singletons simply come down to.
I hate Dependency Injection for the buzz-wordiness but it does solve this very general class of problems in software construction
 
12:33 PM
@sehe It seems that you cannot detect autism by dissecting dead brain matter: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism#Pathophysiology
 
@sehe My use case is the following: the user will create several objects (often unrelated), assigning them a unique ID (a regular string)
Then, he will perform actions on these objects by calling functions that takes such IDs as input
My need is thus to have a mapping between IDs and the corresponding objects
 
nwp
why would anyone want stringly types?
 
The functions are callable from an Excel spreadsheet
How can you have strongly-typed input there?
 
nwp
use VB?
 
I'm not touching that with a 60ft-pole
And I'm not even sure it's possible
The end user is not a programmer
He does'nt know VBA or C++ or anything at all about brogramming
 
12:39 PM
8 mins ago, by sehe
@Rerito Anywhere. Acceptable solutions are generally known under "dependency injection". As opposed to "dependency grabbing/unknown promiscuous dependencies" what singletons simply come down to.
 
@Horttanainen Hmm. Surprising. Humans are fun machines.
 
@sehe Yes
 
@BartekBanachewicz So what is your suggestion, a static private member inside a class?
That class is responsible for the interaction with the outside world and acts as the unique entry point
 
@Rerito statics are global variables
 
@Rerito This is begging the question. The user is doing that. It's like saying "How can I make my athletes compete at Olympic level? My athletes move on all fours and require shoes made of teflon before they can wake up". Those are arbitrary design choices that limit your options.
 
12:41 PM
read the message again
 
@Rerito Simply do not use an interface that does not allow you to compartmentalize the dependencies.
If you design your "Entity Framework" to be a "bag of rubbish" don't be surprised you end up with "a bag rubbish"
 
There has to be an indirection level because these objects are not manipulable as is inside the excel sheet
 
If you can't redesign the stuff, by all means live with it, but at least realize that singletons are not solving the mess. They're merely codifying it.
 
@Rerito that doesn't remotely translate to "a dependency on some global mutable state"
 
Hmmm I think I get what you mean
 
12:45 PM
@Rerito Wow. I'd suggest indeed a TLB describing a strongtyped COM interface. Then use that to define actual worksheet functions in VBA. That gets rid of most of the badness of stringly typed API.
 
Unfortunately, I don't know if I can avoid using global variables and at the same time not refactoring a whole lot of the existing codebase
 
^ in that case, you'd have my blessing. Just watch out for turd polish.
thosesillydutch.blogspot.nl/2007/08/… English equivalent: 'You cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear".
 
@sehe I followed Alexandrescu's advice on Singleton objects in Modern C++ design
 
@Rerito I've done that in the past. The only sane way is to accept that you can't take all the shit out at once.
@Rerito Too bad that sucks then, huh.
Global state is something that creeps into the whole project and you have to get rid of it in small steps taking a piece out and doing it in a reasonable way until you untangle all the informal dependencies
 
Just to be sure to understand
Define dependencies
 
12:49 PM
if there is a title 'our latest news', should I put a subtitle 'what's happening lately' or 'what have happened lately?'
 
@Rerito one module needing another one to work
 
@Rerito You know when that book was published, right
C++11 completely obsoletes that chapter
 
If you have a module accessible from anywhere you can't readily track all the modules that depend on it
 
@Rerito A dependency is something you need. Like caffeine, or libxml2
 
@sehe You know what compiler I'm using right ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
12:52 PM
MSVC. Don't tell me it's VS6
 
nwp
no magic statics in VS2010 as far as I remember
 
@nwp I actually don't think those were working until VS2015
 
Not too difficult to hack the equivalent. Yes, that's "guilty code", but at least you know what you're doing it for.
@Mgetz VS2013 had them, just not for non-trivially destructing types. I remember because I had to use smart pointers there as a hack.
@rightfold Otherwise known as Survivor Bias
 
I use that magic statics
I don't have to take care of thread safety because the component running in excel resides in its own single thread
So if VS 2010 doesn't handle thread safety for scoped static variables, I'm not impacted :)
 
1:13 PM
@Rerito famous last words
 
good job jwbensley
 
1:28 PM
@Borgleader Sometimes people still manage to impress me.
 
@Puppy Do you test the location ranges generated by your parser?
 
@Borgleader YOUR YOUR YOUR YOUR
 
/cc @jaggedSpire
 
@BartekBanachewicz Oh, you listen to Supertramp? hehehe
 
Supertrump :P
 
1:32 PM
it would take so much time for my current and future tests...
for a thing that's not even implemented by me and is an added bonus at most
hmm does that sound like a question for SO?
 
@BartekBanachewicz it'd be less awful at first glance if some objects weren't split in separate lines
half of the lines are for the location structs
 
nwp
Congratulations! You may be the first person to find a use for std::quoted. — nwp 54 secs ago
 
1:48 PM
@ratchetfreak I'd wager 80%
but I just don't know if it's worth testing at all
 
@BartekBanachewicz spot checks at the very least for the locations
but after that strip the locations from the expected data
 
@ratchetfreak spot checks?
 
only do the test for locations for a few cases (including regressions where it mess up in the past)
 
@ratchetfreak I'm really thinking how would I do that, I had that problem before. Solved partially only recently
@ratchetfreak I don't think it messed up anywhere; again, it's data I get from my parser builder.
 
2:42 PM
@Borgleader LOL
 
nwp
2:59 PM
Does anyone know of a report tool that can produce PDFs with labels and tables based on a template produced with a designer and values given at runtime? I found OpenRPT and QtRPT that have the problems of requiring an SQL database and not being able to reflow the document.
 
@nwp latex?
 
nwp
@ratchetfreak Yeah, that's a serious consideration. It lacks in suitable graphical designers, but that is a requirement that can be cut.
 
3:16 PM
o_0 Think I just had an issue caused by using the wrong type of white space
 
@thecoshman What? Unicode whitespace? :-)
 
I've no idea
 
If that's the case, then it would be hilarious
 
nwp
3:38 PM
Interestingly Qt Designer is also an option because it supports proper reflowing and tables and can be easily filled at runtime. Unfortunately most widgets are not suitable to be printed on a PDF. Maybe with a custom style...
and I would have to do the page splitting manually
 
@Borgleader
@Kendra. Should I delete this fucking question? — duvajtegasvi 3 mins ago
 
4:13 PM
@Mysticial Apparently the answer was "yes".
 
4:25 PM
Oh, deleted already.
user image
5
 
@Mysticial man. childish question. but Do you watcch the next gen of Naruto(Boruto).. Yea yeas. I watch it. and really enjoy it
 
Xeo
@Mysticial voi, got any animu done?
 
@ProblemSlover Whoa. I haven't even finished Naruto. I stopped at the ep both Naruto and Sasuke (seem to) die.
 
@wilx hm. your kids no longer enjoyed it? :P
 
@ProblemSlover Hehe. No, they have never seen it. I watched it myself since the start.
 
4:36 PM
@wilx I started watvhing it since 345th episode
 
@ProblemSlover lol
 
225th episode actually
 
@Xeo I DL'ed more episodes last night of all the stuff on my to-do list.
 
Xeo
lol
 
@Mysticial wow that delicious ragequit
 
4:53 PM
@Mysticial Apparently that was a yes. I cant see the page.
xD
 
user1804599
@sehe That's /r/ImGoingToHellForThis for you.
 
5:09 PM
Hi, itches.
I should watch the second season of SnK.
 
5:38 PM
I got complemented on my code today. :)
 
5:49 PM
@jaggedSpire What made your code especially good today?
 
@BartekBanachewicz STA is a nice guarantee
@jaggedSpire you mean someone else provided the missing bits?
 
+++++++++++++++++++++
 
Cleaning your keyboard live?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes a cat on the numeric keyboard
 
nwp
I expected some git commit thing
 
5:57 PM
@Horttanainen :P it was the first time the complemented had seen my style
 
nice
 
@sehe amusingly, the conversation was about replacing the api I'd been working with. So sort of.
I'm quite happy about it. I've come a long way.
 
6:19 PM
@sehe It's fucking horrible in every way.
STA is "We couldn't be arsed to think about threads so let's just make everybody else's job 10x harder"
 
@nwp I use it fairly frequently (admittedly often for cosmetic reasons only)
@Puppy I don't that does service to the COM apartment model. If you mean that iff you want to be a free threaded appartement you'll have to think of marshalling. .. well Sounds lukte fair game to me. Of course the whole trouble lies in the pipe dream of location transparant services in the first place.
Basically you always want to be aware of marshalling (IOW message passing boundaries) and design your API coarseness to match
@jaggedSpire sounds like proper growth
 
@sehe The trouble lies in re-entrancy, who is pumping the queue, etc
 
6:46 PM
@Puppy good point to an extent. I guess it's just a means to an end and STA is a good match for some tasks
 
that's news to me
the only task I've seen STA be a good match for is making programs ridiculously over-complicated and buggy
 
IME they're excellent abstraction leakers
they belong to the same category of things as object's thread affinity
 
another thing that should not exist
really, having threads that are special or different from other threads is just a recipe for disaster
 
user1804599
7:17 PM
This is so cool.
 
user1804599
if should_continue() {
  return queue.pop_front();
}
 
user1804599
This usually doesn't work because should_continue() may change to false while queue.pop_front() is still blocking.
 
user1804599
But with STM it just works, because when the value of should_continue() changes, the transaction is aborted and retried, even if queue.pop_front() was blocking. :)
 
@rightfold Thanks, this was helpful.
 
COM is awesome.
 
user1804599
7:30 PM
No, COM is terrible.
 
user1804599
Mutation galore.
 
@rightfold COM doesn't settle mere normal levels of terrible--it's awesomely terrible.
 
8:15 PM
@rightfold That.. is not really cool at all.
 
user1804599
It's very cool.
 
user1804599
It makes for very simple implementations of concurrent problems that depend on multiple state variables.
 
@Mysticial Well that leaked
 
user1804599
Anyone changes stuff you depend on -> you get terminated and retried.
 
@rightfold you've worked with some crappy COM
@sehe I favor making components that work in both, the mutexes don't really impact STA use
 
Ell
8:25 PM
what is STA?
 
@Ell Single Thread Apartment
basically the component will only ever be accessed by the same thread
COM enforces this by marshaling requests from other threads over using a message pump
 
@Mgetz That's a bit earlier than I expected. I can neither confirm nor deny the accuracy of the data there.
 
@Mysticial I figured
@Ell the alternative is MTA (Multi-threaded Apartment) which can have many threads, and COM objects there need to be thread safe. The final choice is "Apartment Threaded" which is what you get if you completely mess up and don't specify either of the above, in which case you're only accessed by the main thread
 
@rightfold But are those competitively efficient in terms of both execution time and programmer time compared to, say, just using a lock
 
8:46 PM
@Ell The spawn of the devil.
 
@Puppy it's not quite as bad as "main"
 
9:07 PM
pretty much anything involving COM
 
@Mgetz I got this.
 
fCntPlusOne
@EuriPinhollow very helpful
 
I did not even press anything.
 
user1804599
9:27 PM
@Puppy Good luck implementing this "just using a lock"
 
user1804599
@Mgetz I've never worked with COM.
 
9:50 PM
@rightfold Because it's difficult to just lock(mutex) { if should_continue() { return queue.pop_front(); }}?
 
user1804599
This does not solve the problem.
 
user1804599
If queue.pop_front() never returns, the change to should_continue() will still not be observed.
 
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