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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

5:07 PM
@Xeo Anytime somebody overloads the comma operator, it reminds me of a time somebody asked about doing Fortran style array subscripting like A[i, j] in C++. Contrary to popular belief, it actually can work. coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/bcd40218859d94f1
Warning: code in the preceding link is probably not safe for life. May make you hurl (or want to hurl things at me). Please restrict yourself to reactions that won't hurt me.
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin Sure can. But not for <builtin-integral-type> i, j; :)
FWIW, instead of having to have row_id i;, A[{i, j}] might be a teensy bit better.
 
@Xeo Perhaps (but the code predates that possibility). I'm guessing people accustomed to JavaScript (or even just JSON) would probably prefer it.
Ah, here's what I was really looking for though. Closer to what Yakk was doing, but for vector (before C++11). stackoverflow.com/a/1557482/179910. #include <stdisclaimer.h>
 
hello all
me.. first experiment with cilk plus: "if(x == "abcdefg"[:]) ..", internal gcc error
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin Boost.Assign, or whatever it's called
 
5:24 PM
@Xeo Yeah--I'm not sure, but based on the timing, it's entirely possible Boost.assign was based on this (it seems to have been submitted to Boost shortly after I first posted it to Usenet, anyway).
 
user1804599
5:37 PM
Should I add a skill list to my cv?
 
so did anybody else here buy Mankind Divided right off?
I'm actually feeling a little disappointed
 
in C#, 7 mins ago, by milleniumbug
wow that's news to me
 
user1804599
Python community 101
 
user1804599
The problem you have is not actually the problem you have. Because they don't know how to solve it, your problem is an unrelated problem that they do know how to solve.
 
@Mikhail Confirmed. Zen doesn't have native 256-bit support. Load/store throughput it 2x128/1x128 per cycles. The article seems to imply quad-issue 128-bit SIMD. 256-bit instructions are probably still split up into 2 uops.
FMAs also seem to split into 2 uops (mul+add).
So the 256-bit AVX throughput is 2/cycle. (Same as Sandy Bridge.)
But the 256-bit FMA throughput is 1/cycle. (Half of Haswell.)
 
5:45 PM
@Mysticial IOW, the "F" in FMA is just short of a lie.
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah. They'll need a double-wide data-path between the mul and add units to make it correct.
The core seems to be designed for 4 inst/cycle. 6 uops/cycle. Haswell and Skylake are 4 inst/cycle. 8 uops/cycle.
By the looks of it, Zen seems like a chip that could potentially destroy Intel at SSE work-loads since it can quad-issue them.
 
1
Q: VC++ and *nix Compiler Differences

spectre-dSo, just started Programming I at college; unfortunately, this: Submissions must be a notepad *.txt file in 11pt fixed Courier New :rolleyes: That's besides the point though! So it is "required" (I haven't received a confirmation email on whether or not *nix is fine, so long as it works in...

> Submissions must be a notepad *.txt file in 11pt fixed Courier New
 
But it won't be able to compete with Intel in anything FMA-heavy.
 
Ell
6:08 PM
@Mysticial have you listened to the tech presentation?
 
@Ell No. It's available?
 
Ell
none of it means anything to me and you may know it all from the slides
 
oooh. Thanks
I'll take a look when I get home.
 
Ell
sure :)
I wonder what sashimi is best to start on when I've never tried any
 
6:26 PM
@sehe W.T.F? She is insane.
 
@Mysticial Somewhat odd, considering how much of the current FMA instruction came from AMD.
 
Ell
@Mysticial FMA doesn't improve general stuff though does it?
meh ignore me
I don't know what I'm talking about :V
 
@Ell Depends on what "general stuff" you have in mind. It's used a lot in DSP-like things (e.g., filtering), probably not so much in the OS (for only one obvious counterexample).
 
@JerryCoffin There's a bit of an ugly history to it. FMAs have been around for a long time so it's not like either one came up with it. The problem with FMAs is that they are 3-input instructions. And x86 never had any true 3-input instructions.
So they needed a new way to encode it.
AMD came up with SSE5 with added a new (ugly) way to encode the 3rd operand.
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin In my mind I was comparing it to SSE
@Mysticial I thought x86 was variable length? I thought that meant it could encode instructions of any size
 
6:31 PM
Intel proposed AVX which allowed up to IIRC 5 or 6 operands. So they proposed 4 operand instructions for FMA. (3 inputs + 1 output)
AMD switched over to Intel's proposal for "FMA4" (4 operand) and adopted Intel's (better) encoding.
But when Intel started implementing the new stuff, they realized they fucked up. They ran into 2 problems:
1. The entire execution engine for Intel's x86 chips can't handle anything with more than 2 input dependencies. FMAs require 3.
2. Handling 4 operand instructions was difficult.
So they changed their spec to use 3 operand instructions for FMAs. (FMA3)
But by then, AMD already has working silicon for FMA4. So AMD ended up shipping FMA3 in 2011 according to Intel's old specification.
Intel on the other hand couldn't solve their 2-input-operand issue. And it took them until 2013 (Haswell) before they finally hacked together a solution to that. And they did it using their later specification of 3-operand FMAs "FMA3".
So AMD has FMA4, Intel has FMA3. They are incompatible. Since AMD knew it was going to lose that right, they had to implement FMA3 as well. So they support both.
 
Ell
@Mysticial sounds like a big old mess
And unfortunate for AMD to lose out when they had the better tech
 
Intel's execution engine only supports 3 operands of which all of them can be input operands. And they have no intention of going to 4 or more.
 
Xeo
lol, someone downvoted the make_array question
ooh, no, wait
they downvoted another answer of mine
 
> they
 
@Ell FMA4 is definitely better for programmers and performance. But there is some truth that 4 operand instructions is an unnecessary burden on the processor.
 
Xeo
6:40 PM
@JohanLarsson what?
 
In most cases (I'd say about 70% of the time), the 4-operand FMA is not necessary since you won't be reusing at least one of the operands. So you can overwrite it. In the remaining 30% of the cases, you'll need to copy one of the operands before you can issue the FMA.
 
@Xeo not much, they read weird in context
 
Ell
@Mysticial have you designed processors before btw?
 
@Ell Not outside of school. And even then, it was just an adder and a multiplier.
 
Ell
no jumps, etc.?
 
6:41 PM
sop bois
 
@Ell A jump is just writing to the instruction counter. But if you're trying to be efficient about it, forget it. That's beyond grad-school level.
 
Ell
I meant conditionals, I guess
but fair enough
we did a simple processor this year, just add & multiply & [un]conditional branches
 
Conditionally write to the instruction counter.
 
Ell
yeah :P
 
Compare instruction sets a flag. The jump instruction checks the flag. If it's set, it overwrites the instruction counter.
 
Ell
6:44 PM
but we did it with a stack
 
Not much to it.
 
Ell
I do wonder how people even get into the industry
 
Now in a modern processor, it's a lot more complicated with the pipeline, the OOE, the caches.
 
Ell
going from uni -> forefront of technology
 
I could've gone that route if I really wanted to. Take more of the advanced CE courses, major in CE instead of CS. Go to some job fair, get hired by Intel or AMD.
I can't say it's "easy" since I didn't do that. I went with CS and called it a day.
 
Ell
@Mysticial I would guess that getting into GPUs is easier than CPUs
well no actually
what I mean is mobile processors as opposed to desktop
 
No comment, since I'm quite lacking in my GPU experience.
 
Ell
there is more competition there I feel
 
7:19 PM
hola
 
I heard GPU programming with OpenCL is not too hard. You can write code in a C-like language.
 
Rob
CPU GPU same thing. :) libraries like openCL will work on either for example. community.amd.com/thread/122264 the key is how you break up the tasks.
the link I put is a discussion on performance different of opencl between cpu and gpu
 
@Mysticial honestly? given my experience with Verilog I'd want to have a CS undergrad and a CE masters
 
7:38 PM
user image
9
 
@Mgetz I don't have any Verilog experience. We used some solaris thing to design and layout our chip.
I couldn't even take home a copy of my quarter-million transistor super-inefficient 32-bit multiplier. Because it wasn't in a format that I could open.
 
Ell
quarter million transistor :V
I thought you said you only did add & multiply :P
 
8:05 PM
@Ell I don't notice a mention of the word size...
 
Ell
fair enough
 
@Ell I once wrote a generic 2NxN divider in VHDL, and just for fun at one point increased N until the divider (all by itself) took up the whole FPGA I was playing with at the time. :-)
 
Hey! Kids. Shhh, don't make a noise. Want some love?
 
@JerryCoffin cool
 
Ell
@Morwenn yes pls
 
8:12 PM
Moneyz 1st.
 
Ell
lol, I googled "internet coins" to find a joke website
but bitcoin.com just came up :V
 
No problem, give me some :D
 
Ell
I wish I had any :(
 
I had to do some NumPy today, and I'm really bad when there are more than two dimensions :(
 
-18
Q: Pop-up on scroll without interaction blockup popper

chatycat99Any Front-end gurus out there that want to help me? I am trying to create a backtab popup when a user scrolls but not clicks on a page. All major browsers basically block this because you need an interaction to create this popup. Anyone know if there is a hack around this? function testScroll(ev...

^^ Spammer fail. /cc @Borgleader
 
Ell
8:22 PM
@Morwenn what kind of numpy?
 
@Ell The Python kind.
 
@milleniumbug OTOH, that was a cheap FPGA a long time ago--didn't take all that much to fill it.
 
Ell
:P
calculating what stuff?
 
8:39 PM
@Ell Pretty sure I never actually calculated anything with that instantiation--I didn't have enough gates left to even connect it up to pins so I could feed it data or get a result. Seems like I did use a reasonable-sized instantiation of the divider in a few little things though--probably in my little logic analyzer, and almost certainly in a frequency counter, and a reasonably complete CPU too (basically a 32-bit PDP-11).
 
Xeo
> A post must be a data visualization.
oooh, I gave bad advice. :( Sorry
 
Ell
@JerryCoffin that's cool
oh boy
some claire de lun & rain noise from outside is so lovely
 
9:04 PM
@Ell Sounds very rel..a..x...i...n...g...
 
Ell
It is :O
 
@Mysticial we used Verilog on Xylinx chips in Digital Logic
 
9:28 PM
@Xeo meh, what's a table if not a visualisation?
 
Xeo
apparently not visual enough for them
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hmmm...so is this implying that a dung beetle could read the table if it had enough eyes?
 
9:46 PM
I honestly find my table much more useful than Randall's.
 
a similar result was achieved on fruit flies almost 2 decades ago
 
Fruit flies have no horns!
:p
It's easy to grasp the difference between 100y and 7m, but in Randall's chart that involves two changes of visual scale.
 
anyways, stuff can be switched
 
@wilx the beauty of it is that the misunderstanding is even somewhat "feasible". However, it's a telling pattern that nothing in the way of rational checks is ever performed or even attempted and the absense of drama in counterparties is continuous proof.
I'm tempted to show my kids (although I'd have to translate it) as a prime example of what happens when people let themselves be guided by emotions too much. I tell them they have to learn it now, but it's quite educational to see what happens if you don't
 
@sehe Huh. How old are your kids? Can they even fathom what is going on there?
 
10:00 PM
Nah. I've of course only considered it
Also, for me personally it was an eye-opener in that it very clearly shows the mechanics that makes it easier and easier for people to take words like "sexual harassment" Into mouth, just by repeating it for themselves. Once you get used to hearing yourself saying shit, it becomes "just another manipulative device" that they can use to influence the environment.
Reminds me of borderline personality disorder. A lot.
 
@sehe Well, I think I have seen similar bullshit happen elsewhere already. It did not seem new to me. :)
 
@wilx But yeah. I told my daughter I had seen this vid (not what about) and it reminded me that even adults can fail to de-escalate badly. I talked a little bit about always keeping this in mind when interacting with strangers. You just don't know what kind of people you get.
 
@Mysticial Internet 1 - 0 Asshats (for once)
 
@wilx Admit it, you're preoccupied with this theme. But this was a special case. I loved how she fumed "And I got it all on tape!". She didn't realize at all whom the vid would be damning
 
@sehe People like her, the SJWs, are primed to be offended. They look for being offended.
 
10:03 PM
It's okay for them to be offended. But they make it seem like a big deal and then try to convince people it's sexual harassment. That's... not ok
 
@sehe Yeah, no shit. :)
 
10:17 PM
I just saw someone getting offended for being addressed as a person instead of as a woman.
In a debate about whether France's burkini ban was sexist.
Irony overflow
 
Btw, is @Shoe ok?
Fuck this
> Strangely the nginx developers do not consider any of these problems a security issue.
Idiots everywhere
Fuck this
 
user406009
10:35 PM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, he hangs out often in the Discord instead of here.
 
if i have a function that has three arguments a char,int,int the int's each take up four bytes on the stack but does the char take up one byte or four?
 
user406009
@user3743168 We need to take this into the C++ room chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/116940/c
 
will do
 
7 hours ago, by Shoe
I live in Verona for future reference
 
11:19 PM
i'm so shit at cs:go i get kicked out of games
xd
 
@ChemiCalChems I'm so good I get kicked out. Cyka wall hack hack.
 
@CaptainGiraffe cyka blyat
 
@ChemiCalChems I'm curious what it means. I'm not proficient in Russian street.
 
@CaptainGiraffe fucking bitch or similar
literally fucking bitch, yeah
 
Now this is where things get curious. "fucking bitch" is also kinda ambiguos.
 
11:24 PM
Thought it was bitch whore
 
or open for interpretation.
 
@Nooble yes it is
it's also "сука блят"
 
What happened to the read the rules link
 
i'm just not gonna go back to cs:go ever again
i keep going into these competitive games and getting pwned and kicked
it's better if i stayed at home
 
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