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10:00 PM
@sehe very interesting, either this or I'm actually moving to FreeBSD and that feels kinda awkward.
 
The latest Cinnamon commit was 3 hours ago. I love seeing stuff like that.
 
@MooingDuck Yes thats what I'm saying, the latin liber is from liberius, the guy that hung both Apollo and Gallileo!
 
@CaptainGiraffe It should feel rather awkward. IMNSHO BSD is targeted at server installs
 
@RMartinhoFernandes He had a massive penis.
 
10:02 PM
@CaptainGiraffe I can't find anything to validate that claim
 
@DeadMG GTFO
 
@DeadMG Exactly this!, the science is unanimous.
 
@DeadMG Oh, a massive cock?
 
@MooingDuck Good then the internet is still somewhat valid =)
 
10:03 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Somehow I rather expect that to be a hollow cock, considering the safety implications
 
@sehe Well, the caption from the original read "massive cock", so I'm inclined to believe it.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes link... I suspect trollworthy source
 
@RMartinhoFernandes A 100% trustworty visual pun
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Still with the TVTropes, huh?
 
10:06 PM
Now all we need is a script that does s/Source/sauce!!/g and a few other things
 
@DeadMG Always.
But hey, I was asked for it, this time.
 
true true
 
user1174868
where the hell are all the americans? I have questions
 
Murrica!!!!
 
@Jordan About America?
 
10:08 PM
I woted for Palin
 
user1174868
merikey
 
user1174868
About universities
 
@StackedCrooked please don't intercept with cleverness
 
user1174868
damn communists
 
@Jordan Us Americans are at work
 
10:10 PM
I'm from Dallass I have seen those damn communists, they were just across the shore from dallas.
 
@MooingDuck Working does not stop most europeans from chatting here
 
@KillianDS nor me, obviously
 
user1174868
Dallas doesnt really have a shore unless you mean the river, than those communists are the poor in the city
 
They tried to sell themselves as cumericuns but we wouldn't have nothing of it
You can se the dramatizations of it in movies such as "Reagan does Dallas"
I'm a gun man.
 
user1174868
when you say it like that it sounds gay, americans hate gay things above all else
 
10:12 PM
@KillianDS I hope there's no hidden subtext in there.
 
user1174868
Your number 1 goal as an American male when eating a bannana is to make sure it doesnt look like a penis
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Not really, just an observation how alive this chat is during working hours :)
 
@Jordan What about massive male chickens?
 
No no I was in the Cattle Queen of montana!
Thats manly
 
user1174868
...
 
10:14 PM
Well what about Bedtime for Bonzo!
Dang that's Manly!
 
You're not making sense. Is that normal?
 
user1174868
How much is a single euro-college class?
 
I'm the late great Ronald Reagan, for those listening in on this
 
user1174868
bullshit, Ronald Reagan is off riding bulls and shooting foreigners
 
A single class?
 
10:16 PM
I dont think Jordan is anywhere serious in his serious inquiries.
 
Here you pay for the whole thing. You don't buy individual classes.
 
user1174868
I was serious abou that
 
So I thought I would take a look at Boost.Phoenix to get an insight on how it manage to have decent compilation times. I'm not sure why I thought that would be productive.
 
user1174868
oh
 
user1174868
So by semester?
 
user1174868
10:17 PM
Here a semester is about $24,000
 
No, years.
 
@Jordan Hurry here and it's only books and lodging.
 
I paid ~900€ per year.
 
user1174868
I can't handle Euro-classes. I got An American Education
 
@RMartinhoFernandes It was about the same here (enrollment+books)
 
10:18 PM
Not sure what that means.
 
user1174868
I am 27 and just now taking calc 1 after 5 semesters of school
 
@KillianDS Oh, books are extra here.
Calc 1? Does that means "first calculus course"?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes yes
 
user1174868
Yes, like after algebra
 
wiki courses are actually not that bad in calculus
do you know about limits?
 
10:21 PM
ahh...
 
user1174868
I know all about limits
 
all is back to normal :)
 
@CaptainGiraffe ok, it's confirmed now: gnome-shell is the Gnome 3 window manager (Mint customizes that with the Mint Gnome Shell Extensions)
 
@sehe ok mint it is for me, thanks.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Let me know what you like/find out about it. I just switched (after dual booting it since christmass):
Dec 28 '11 at 21:53, by sehe
That's what I get for working on a temporary installation of Linux Mint
 
10:26 PM
Well, what can I say. Boost.Proto is so well crafted that it will still beat naive C++11 code.
 
@Jordan We are going to give you bad advice about maths probably. I'm going to tell you to read Knuths 978-0-201-89683-1
 
@je4d have you been sending me private messages?
@LucDanton That's awesome. I do suspect it will change with compiler improvements, though
 
@LucDanton That is a statement that needs proof.
 
@CaptainGiraffe I've posted timings earlier.
 
@CaptainGiraffe I think the proof preceded posting that.
 
10:28 PM
Ok, I'll get on my upvoting spree then
 
@Jordan That was roughly my entire college debt (I paid my own tuition and didn't exactly complete any curriculum; meaning: I could have made more debts but opted to start working in IT instead of becoming a concert theoreticak musician/vexed music prof)
@RMartinhoFernandes I think we're at 2250 EUR for a regular year University round here
 
@LucDanton Please link? link please?
 
7 hours ago, by Luc Danton
2.6s for three-way visitation of three-element variants. Not bad.
The test code is lost but amounted to something like apply<long>(((arg1 * arg1) + (arg2 * arg2)) / (2 * arg3), v0, v1, v2); where the vN have type variant<short, int, long>.
 
@LucDanton I was kinda curious about the code. I gathered a little bit about it. Thanks.
 
@sehe That reminds me.
I was talking to an.. electrical engineer the other day working on some code
 
10:37 PM
I did also tests without using variant, i.e. just test (/* functor goes here */)(42, 42, 42) or some such.
 
@DeadMG You still need to tell your parents something?
 
he accused me of being way too theoretical and abstract and a very computer scientist
 
@DeadMG yeah...
 
which I find hilarious, because I'm basically in here all the time bitching about how much I despise such things :P
 
@DeadMG That's what physicists say to anyone not using a soldering iron and oscilloscopes
 
10:38 PM
@DeadMG You should grow a stache
 
a what?
 
@DeadMG let me guess, he just hacks up some code until it works and is happy :)?
 
@CaptainGiraffe Become a phony philospher?
 
@KillianDS Heh. Nah, he's fairly bright and not that silly
but not as smart as me, obviously :P
 
@sehe No! When did that become "phony"
 
10:39 PM
lol :)
 
@KillianDS Not at all: he crunches numbers only and uses rigorous numerical recipes. However, he wouldn't care about algebraic or optimal solutions, instead focusing on simulating with 'good enough' approximations that he can then verify in the wild.
 
I must have missed a few trains.
 
@DeadMG clsoe enough? ^^
 
Hmm, grep doesn't have a --total option?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes You mean, -c for count? Or -q for 'boolean result via exit code'?
 
10:40 PM
@sehe That's a count per file.
I want grep pattern | wc -l.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's easily fixed: s/grep/cat/ and pipe into grep
 
@sehe Eh, I dunno. It would probably help if he had spent more time on it :P
 
@sehe cat lacks -R
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Use either shopt -s globstar or find? Anyways, grep pattern | wc -l works
 
$ grep ::type -RI | wc -l
2
$
@sehe I know.
Woot.
 
10:42 PM
This guy has grep though, wish he was the author sometime, I fit this stuff into <300k back when I was 13 =) youtube.com/watch?v=fU2vmTdiE9Y&feature=related
didn't sound good, didn't look good but itt looked like!
 
I should be able to get that count down to one when GCC implements aligned_union.
 
What do you use aligned_union for?
Bit-fiddling?
 
Nothing, but my emulation has a ::type in it, and it's in the config.h++ header.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I saw what you did there. Accidental honesty, I reckon
 
I don't want that to depend on type_traits.h++, because type_traits.h++ depends on it :S
 
10:44 PM
So you have an emulation of a feature of C++11 of dubious use that you don't use?
 
@LucDanton Right.
 
win
 
@DeadMG lulz
 
@LucDanton If I reinvent recursive variants, I can use it!
Or normal variants, for that matter, but I have no use for normal variants so far.
Didn't you reinvent it for your variant?
 
bananas
I need to stop buying them
 
10:48 PM
@sehe I did sign it "-je4d", should've been fairly clear :)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes No, std::aligned_storage was good enough. That's why I think std::aligned_union is sort of cute, but I don't see the point.
 
@je4d Just checking. Social engineering is cheap
 
@sehe for fairly obvious reasons I didn't want to write that on chat
 
Well, there's the possibility I did something horribly wrong.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Hey, so I might not be insane. I only use variants recursively because they're so nice for modeling tree structures in pythonesque style (i.e., mainly with value semantics)
 
10:49 PM
So typename aligned_storage<max(sizeof(T)...), max(alignof(T)...)>::type?
That's basically aligned_union.
 
Yeah. Silly right?
 
@je4d Thanks again. I will look into it. But not soon. I expect to have to go through a bit of bureacracy to get my records wiped. (Kinda hard to keep this in indirect wordings)
 
So you did reinvent it, you just didn't slap the name tag on it.
 
I don't even
 
@sehe no problem, (struggles to phrase follow up comment...)
 
10:51 PM
template <std::size_t Size, typename... T>
struct aligned_union : aligned_storage<max(Size, sizeof(T)...), max(alignof(T)...)> {};
Hmm, no ::type.
 
aligned_union takes a MinAlign param or some such.
 
also, shouldn't that be typename... T?
 
you're unpacking a non-pack template parameter
 
10:53 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes thanks
 
Speaking of features we implement and proceed to not use, my variant has a which member, taken straight from the interface of boost::variant. It's a const qualified member. Privately it also has a const volatile qualified version, because I support visitation of volatile-qualified variant. Which I don't really care for.
 
Ah, wait, that's missing the nested alignment_value too.
 
But I could have made the original which volatile-qualified. Oh well.
@RMartinhoFernandes Still doesn't result in a ::type, you're good.
 
Arrgh, C++11 should have killed the <: digraph.
Well, all of them, but that one with fire.
 
Oh ya, I have parallel_visit and parallel_visitations. I need a better name for those. It's the plumbing that is use to make e.g. operator= work, when two variants have the same member active. Hence it only instantiates <T, T> pairs for the visitor functor. pairwise_visit?
 
10:58 PM
Yeah, sleep is probably in order.
 
static constexpr std::size_t alignment_value = alignof(Invoke<aligned_union>); right?
Or repeat the max if you're not afraid of it.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes shall I do the obligatory battery pun?
 
@thecoshman NOP
 
@thecoshman what pun?
@LucDanton Well, ::wheels::Invoke to be safe (I'm in namespace std, hehehe).
 
lookofdisapproval.tiff.bat
 
11:02 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes time for you to recharge the batteries
huh... not really a pun I guess
 
I started up the Mint terminal and was greeted by this:
 _____________________________________
/ Your lover will never wish to leave \
\ you.                                /
 -------------------------------------
  \
   \   \_\_    _/_/
    \      \__/
           (oo)\_______
           (__)\       )\/\
               ||----w |
               ||     ||
Uh.
 
o_0
 
(oo)
 
@Maxpm That's cowsay.
cowsay is a program which generates ASCII pictures of a cow with a message. It can also generate pictures using pre-made images of other animals. There is also a related program called cowthink, with cows with thought bubbles rather than speech bubbles. _______________________ ----------------------- \ ^__^ \ (oo)\_______ (__)\ )\/\ ||----w | || || .cow files for Cowsay exist which are able to produce different variants of "cows", with different kinds of "eyes", and so forth. It is sometimes used ...
@thecoshman Not even a lame one.
 
Beautiful.
 
11:06 PM
Chat oneboxing completely trounced that cow.
2
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I have hacked a daily agenda digest that uses Google Calendar to mail me and my wife a summary of upcoming appointments - mainly as a health check on the mail server. It uses cowsay to add a fortune too :)
 
So, ::type occurrence is down to one. Yay.
 
night all
 
@RMartinhoFernandes best when combined with figlet
 
I spent the whole day doing OpenGL, and now I want to injure myself.
 
11:09 PM
16
A: Why is modulo operator necessary?

Mysticialcommented: Why is this attracting so many votes? (Hey I'm not complaining...)

lol
 
@Mysticial reminds me of "why was this message starred?"
 
Fishing for stars?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes not intentionally, I wouldn't want anything of mine starred that didn't deserve it
just commenting on its self-fulfilling nature :)
 
Why was this message not starred?
Why didn't the committee make the INVOKE thing an actual function instead of some abstract idea that only exists in the standard document?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes My exact reaction right before implementing it.
 
11:15 PM
Having to fix the language like this pisses me off to no end.
 
On the other hand the Standard does use things like decay_copy to specify things and this one is not interesting.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes would it serve any purpose other than to assist language lawyers?
 
@je4d Helps make code more generic.
 
It's a generic invoking mechanism.
Right now you have: function objects using function call syntax, and pointers to member functions using two weird syntaxes.
 
11:17 PM
In the defense of the Standard you can forgo it entirely and decide instead to rely on std::declval<F>()(std::declval<A>()...) and let the caller adapt to that via the Standard utilities (or Boost).
 
would you want it as an overloaded template function or as a keyword?
 
@je4d Because then it's INVOKE(f, blah, blah) for every kind of callable object.
Basically, they bridge that gap to specify stuff, but forgot to materialize that bridge in a header so you can have it too.
It's like withholding candy from a baby.
@LucDanton Oh, that reminds me I still need to write that damn SFINAEing result_of...
 
Since I have a namespace result_of (in the style of Boost), it's called result_type, but the alias is still ResultOf :|
 
Why a namespace?
 
As an example tuples::result_of::transform is a useful metafunction.
Admittedly it's a holdover from C++03. I don't result_of everything -- only things that can prove themselves useful as a stand-alone metafunction.
 
11:25 PM
Oh, I see.
 
Night owl all
 
@sehe nn
 
damn you e-books
y u make buying books so ez and take all my moneys
 
At least they prevent you from wasting it on junk food! There's always a bright side.
 
and let's face it, that is something with which I certainly can use assistance
I still haven't finished reading many of the previous e-books I bought
 
11:33 PM
I got my 3rd kindle in the post this morning.. and rung them up just now to ask them to send a 4th :-/
it turned up with a broken 3g modem
not overly impressed with the kindle reliability so far, but it sure is convenient when it works
 
FUCK YOU APPLE
Y u make such annoying password restrictions?
I can't rely on having KeePass around every time I need to sign in to your silly app store
and why the hell can't I even copy my pw from keepass into your silly website?
epic security fail
 
Speaking of silly restrictions, what is it about Linux that makes capitalized usernames impossible?
 
Use auto-type?
 
@je4d wierd, I've never heard of anyone having a problem.
 
@MooingDuck the fist one was the weirdest.. it just spontaneously bricked itself, after i put it down on the bed one evening
 
11:41 PM
@Maxpm It's not impossible, only a bad idea because some programs can't handle them.
 
@MooingDuck second was a cracked screen, quite possibly my fault but leaves me unimpressed by the build quality. Or maybe I'm just unlucky :-)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Why? That's a little odd.
 
adduser and such prevent such things, but I think you can pass some flags to force it.
 
I don't see why a program would hiccup on a capital letter. It all fits inside ASCII.
 
Editing /etc/passwd and/or /etc/shadow might also work, but I take no responsibility for you bricking your system :P
@Maxpm It fucks up if it lowercases it.
Yes, that's stupid, but it's out there.
 
11:46 PM
:\
Woe.
I like capital letters.
I capitalize my directory names.
And source files.
AndVariables.
 
Trying (but probably futile) to start a little flame war...
10
A: What is your single most effective interview q?

Cheers and hth. - Alfcommented: That's screening away people who don't use the fancy tools, leaving the conformists and techno-babblers. I wouldn't want to work with the folks who were hired by this process. Better filter on thinking ability. E.g., have they ever /created/ a unit test framework, or tools for unit testing? I have, but I have never used NUnit. Have they ever tried out Vi and Emacs and found them /severely primitive and lacking/, e.g. compared to editor they implemented themselves? I (and many others) have, and just use Visual Studio editor. And so on. Folks who are /using/ fancy tools can be real ungood.

 
I'm a pretty fast typist, so it doesn't really matter, functionally speaking.
 
@Maxpm I doubt many standard command line programs will have difficulty with a mixed case username tbh
but I still wouldn't recommend it
 
I first collided with Vi in 1986. It didn't even support arrow keys. Silly beast.
 
11:48 PM
@CheersandhthAlf That's also necroing too.
It's a three-year old post.
 
@CheersandhthAlf No one in his sane mind uses vi these days.
 
But there must be some Vi fanboys around anyway?
 
@Maxpm samba shares are a prime candidate for where you may have trouble with mixed case names
 
@CheersandhthAlf I like vim.
 
11:50 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes I take it you're distinguishing vi from vim here?
no one sane uses vi
 
But vim supports arrow keys, so that's not a flame war you can start.
@je4d Right. One is usable, the other isn't.
 
There's probably still some ex fanboys around too
 
With vi you either suffer terminal cultural shock from being used to those "normal" editors you see everywhere, or you suffer accute why-doesn't-vi-have-this-feature distress if you're used to vim.
 
yeah, I usually have to stop, take a deep breath, and then pretend I'm using vim very slowly and precisely without doing anything fancy
until it lets me back to a command prompt
 
I have not found a Linux text editor I am happy with.
 
11:54 PM
You expect text editing to make you happy?
 
I want something tiny, with auto-indentation (just copying the indentation of the previous line is okay), configurable syntax highlighting with the ability to add custom languages, and sane keyboard shortcuts.
 
@Maxpm If you make yourself use vim enough, you'll learn to love it
 
@je4d I think I'd feel obligated to be a vim super-user and memorize all the esoteric commands.
 
aka Stockholm syndrome
 
@Maxpm Is that the worst that can happen?
 
11:56 PM
@Maxpm nothing wrong with that. ggVG= should auto-reindent your current file ;)
 
18
A: What is your single most effective interview q?

RobᵩMy favorite programming question was this: Find the bug in this program: int main() { char *p = malloc(strlen("Hello")); strcpy(p, "Hello"); printf("%s world\n"), p); } This worked pretty good for a few years. Some folks recognized the buffer overflow, some didn't. Then one ca...

lol
> 2. wrong signature for main()
 
2 and 5 are bugs?
 
@Pubby 5 is if this is C.
Which it looks like.
 
89 was many, many years ago.
 

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