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7:00 PM
@Potatoswatter Consider 5thRootOf(-1). There are 5 solutions. Two of them have positive imaginary parts.
 
@Xaade That's cause you're telling it solve it. So it's giving you all the values. If you just did sqrt(-1), it only gives you the one of them.
 
@Mysticial lazy
 
@Mysticial That's still symmetric about the real axis, so substituting -i for i makes no difference. I'm falling asleep too much to think about a function which isn't.
 
7:03 PM
@Potatoswatter Well, which of the two "positive" ones would you pick?
Solve[-1. == x^5]

{{x -> -1.}, {x -> -0.309017 - 0.951057 I}, {x -> -0.309017 +
    0.951057 I}, {x -> 0.809017 + 0.587785 I}, {x ->
   0.809017 - 0.587785 I}}
 
@Potatoswatter Actually it's rotational symmetry around x,y = 0, starting at 0 degrees.
 
@WhatsInAName did you see the updates to your question? (yes or no. comments/information go on the question page, not chat)
 
Power[-1, (5)^-1] + 0.

0.809017 + 0.587785 I
 
@Xaade It's both.
 
@Potatoswatter not when you get the -1 = x^5
 
7:05 PM
@Xaade Look at his list of roots. It consists of pairs of complex conjugates, plus -1 which is its own conjugate.
 
sbi
Wow. Facebook is buying Instagram.
 
There is rotational symmetry and reflection symmetry.
 
@Tin you're passing the Engine as a reference to the struct, but the struct is still making a copy.
 
Tin
@sbi, for 1bn, amazing!
 
sbi
7:06 PM
Remember this day. 551-day-old Instagram is worth $1 billion. 116-year-old New York Times Co.: $967 million.
 
@Potatoswatter it's only reflection symmetry for even roots.
so the result of the set of all exponents is rotational
 
@Xaade Dude. Cover the top half of the graph. Now cover the bottom half. Look familiar?
 
Why the hell are we talking about math?
 
@sbi I dont understand it
 
@Mysticial Because otherwise I need to debug a website in Java using a toolchain I don't trust.
 
Tin
7:08 PM
@MooingDuck, mmmm, this means that i should get rid of the struct? or is there any other way to still use the struct without making a copy of the engine?
 
sbi
@bamboon You don't understand that statement?
 
@Tin make the Engine member a reference
 
sbi
@MooingDuck Then you cannot assign to the struct. When this makes sense, it's fine, otherwise you're better off with a pointer.
 
@sbi I don't understand how facebook can waste so much money on such a crap
 
I don't think it's possible
it doesn't even let me translate between data types
i can't convert back and forth between longs and bigintegers
 
sbi
7:10 PM
@bamboon That crap has 30 million users. That is what makes them worth a billion.
 
@WhatsInAName you should put that in your question instead of chat so someone will help you with it
 
is there a way I can just precalculate these values
in another language
and then load them into C++
 
@WhatsInAName I want to find out where you work and call them and tell them to fire you :(
 
this isn't for work
 
"Cannot follow simple instructions, when repeated 16 times."
 
7:12 PM
It's not cannot, it's not-wasting-the-time
 
@MooingDuck The ignore button beckons.
 
Did you even take 3 seconds to look at the header? BigInteger has functions for this:
/* Converters to primitive integer types
* The implicit conversion operators caused trouble, so these are now
* named. */
unsigned long toUnsignedLong () const;
long toLong () const;
unsigned int toUnsignedInt () const;
int toInt () const;
unsigned short toUnsignedShort() const;
short toShort () const;
 
clearly this solution is untenable
so I need another approach
 
@sbi I just realised that too
 
@Potatoswatter but I'm trying so hard to help. :(
 
7:13 PM
there's even a comment explaining it
 
@WhatsInAName seriously? My answer to your question shows how to do this "untenable" thing with one line of code
 
What are you talking about
 
@WhatsInAName and fyi, int64_t is not the long type. They're different.
 
i know that
which is why I switched to longs
because there didn't seem to be support to int64's
 
sbi
@bamboon Basically, Facebook is a bet on the future: Investors (and, soon, shareholders) are betting that, one day, the company will find a business model to make all that private data of billions of users shitting gold for them. FB has such a huge user base, and those users are throwing so much of their private data at this company, that it is quite a reasonable bet. If you believe that such an idea will materialize, then adding yet more data of yet more users to the company makes sense.
Personally, I would love this idea to fail spectacularly, and FB burning hundreds of billions of dollars, but then all this data will probably be sold to dubious companies in the shady corners of the web, and I wouldn't wish this to happen to most of FB's users.
 
7:17 PM
@WhatsInAName the BigInteger type freely converts to and from long. My answer has one line functions to convert to and from int64_t. I don't know what you're talking about anymore.
 
that's int 64 to bigint
that's not what i am trying to do
 
@sbi totally agree with you, just had the same thing typed, though not as good formulated as you always put it
 
@WhatsInAName maybe you should ask a SO question about what you are trying to do
 
i give up
SO is frustrating beyond belief
 
@WhatsInAName I give up too. Ignored
 
7:19 PM
Sorry we can't magically know what you're trying to do, or magically expand your datatypes, or magically make libraries compile.
 
Well
that "code" he posted that supposedly works
doesn't
SO is frustrating because people either post answers that don't say anything, or flat-out don't work
And then wonder why I get frustrated with them when they don't understand that what they're suggesting does not work
 
What do you mean by "doesn't work"
 
@MooingDuck Did a while ago.
 
As in, throws errors. Doesn't compile. Throws ambiguous conversion errors, take your pick
 
No one here is psychic
WHAT ARE THE ERRORS
 
7:21 PM
I LITERALLY JUST TOLD YOU
 
"throws errors" means nothign
"doesn't compile" means nothing
 
conversion from long long int' to const BigInteger' is ambiguous
 
@WhatsInAName SO is frustrating because people either post questions that don't say anything, or flat-out don't make sense.
 
my question makes sense
 
@sbi however I think this whole business is crazy
 
7:22 PM
you just don't actually know how to resolve the problem and feel the need to berate me and talk down acting as if the fault is on my end
When following advice to the T yields errors and it's somehow my fault
the code you posted doesn't work. That's not me posting a question that doesn't say anything or doesn't make sense.
 
Tin
@Xaade, thanks for the advice ;-) I just read it
 
@bamboon Google has been turning a ridiculous profit doing it for years. I see no reason that Facebook can't do the same.
 
@WhatsInAName Is it actually that line which is giving you that error? How are you using the function MooingDuck wrote?
 
I'm not even using it yet. It doesn't even compile.
I'm not sure how much clearer I can be
 
@WhatsInAName I admit that following my instructions to the T will yield errors. That is because I don't have DevCPP, nor have I used the library before, nor do I have any idea what your code does, or what problems you're having. So no, my code probably won't be a magic bullet. My code depends on you knowing enough about your code to adapt it to compensate for the things I don't know about your code.
 
7:27 PM
The errors given are all about ambiguous conversion issues
It has nothing to do with my code
 
BigInteger int64_to_BigInt(int64_t v)
{ return BigInteger(int(v/INT_MAX))*INT_MAX+int(v%INT_MAX);}
try that
 
It could be a totally blank cpp file with nothing but includes to the bigint libraries
I did, Collin
 
@WhatsInAName wait what? Let me check that
 
with the extra cast I have in there?
 
yes
ambiguous conversion error
 
7:28 PM
ohai
 
(I casted the v&INT_MAX to int)
 
@DeadMG Google attracts the best and brightest. Facebook only attracts the hippest. Selling out without alienating that userbase is a real minefield.
 
@TonyTheLion Ohai tony
 
Tin
@MooingDuck, thanks for the advice! it seems that your assumption was correct, i was creating a new generator every time. now, the engine is a static member, and the struct has a reference engine as private member. does this static initialization looks fair in your opinion? pastebin.com/05MdcLzz
 
7:29 PM
I pre-emptively suggest for you to ignore WhatsInAName
 
I'm done
I'm really tired of repeating myself here
 
it will save you time
 
it does not work. That doesn't mean I'm going to run it again and it's magically going to work
 
done
thx :)
 
no probs
 
7:30 PM
You guys are just being rude to me for literally no reason
 
what you been up to?
 
fixing bugs, rendering shit, and suchthings
 
oh nice
me been fixing one particular bug too
 
@Tin no? You declare it as a member of myclass and define it as a member of CPairNode
 
I think it's a multi threaded heisenbug
meh, it sucks
@DeadMG is the rendering engine you were working on?
 
7:31 PM
yes
in my experience, heisenbugs are like double frees in C- upgrade your tools and program model and you won't usually have that problem
of course, it's not usually that simple
 
I implemented proper frustum culling in my engine, fixed some bugs, and now you can drag-box select units
 
now when you do some operations on an int type in C, it's not guaranteed that a write is atomic is it?
 
@WhatsInAName I just checked, with Visual Studio 2010, the BigInteger library and my code (with Collin's fix, thanks Collin) all compile just fine. No conversion issues. Either it's your code, or your compiler. I dunno which.
 
@TonyTheLion Nope, on an 8-bit cpu for example it can't be.
 
7:34 PM
if the variable is volatile, and you definitely write to it once, and it is of word size, then yes on x86 or x64
but you would have to inspect the assembly to be absolutely sure
 
@Potatoswatter it's just on my normal PC I'm talking, this isn't embedded
 
hi
 
@DeadMG right
 
@MooingDuck I'm not sure that he noticed that extra cast
 
mov is atomic for word-sized variables
 
7:35 PM
ok
 
of course, whether or not the compiler actually generates the mov you're looking for is another question
the Windows API comes with a function which guarantees it, I believe
 
this is true
hmmm
it actually looks like this int x= a +b;
 
Tin
@MooingDuck, sorry about the paste confusion, myclass is actually cpairnode, so here it's the code. that way is correct, right? pastebin.com/Q7prkqB1 especially the engine static member in cpairnode & the way i'm using the struct ?
 
@TonyTheLion That looks like an initialization, not a write
 
TeX is such an optimist. "Things are pretty mixed up, but I think the worst is over."
 
7:38 PM
@Tin glancing over it, it looks good. Does it still have the repetition issue?
 
@DeadMG ok, it's a write, the init part was just this example
 
well, int on Windows is 32bit, so writing to it if it's in memory should be atomic
 
Tin
@MooingDuck, it seems to be that it's fine now, thanks a lot! but what was the problem exactly? if the engine would be different every time, then i wouldn't have the exact random sequence, right?
 
@Tin Were they seeded with the same number each time?
 
Tin
7:42 PM
@Collin, i was seeding the engine with std::random_device rd;
 
@Tin you have a generator A. You'd make a copy of A, and from that generate 10 numbers. Then you'd make another copy of A, and from that generate 10 more. Each copy will generate the same numbers
@Tin no, you were seeding from the static generator member :D
 
sbi
@WhatsInAName You know, when one guy drives on the wrong lane on the highway, you should be thankful you survived the encounter. When everyone drives on the wrong lane, you should check which lane you are in. It's likely the wrong one.
4
 
Tin
@MooingDuck, yes, you're right, at the beginning the generator was static
 
DevCPP is the only compiler I can get working
Everything else throws a thousand errors when I try installing them
And it's not that I'm driving on the wrong side of the highway -- it's that I'm driving in London and people are telling me how to drive as if it were America
 
cygwin's setup.exe is really easy to use
 
7:44 PM
My OP specifically states I'm using DevCPP.
 
sbi
And that, Mr @WhatsInAName, will conclude our very short encounter. You have been poisoning the room's atmosphere all afternoon, and I have certainly had enough of it. <plonk/>
 
If I've been poisoning it it's because I've been drinking from a dirty well fueled by those not paying attention
 
sbi
Now, if you guys would all do the same, this would be a much saner place.
 
It's not my fault if people aren't going to actually listen to the parameters of the question and then get indignant when I tell them it doesn't work/apply to me
 
@Tin no I mean, you were generating numbers from your randGen objects. Each randGen was "seeded" every time from CPairNode::m_engine, but CPairNode::m_enginenever changed it's value, since it never generated a single number.
 
Tin
7:46 PM
@MooingDuck, i think, i got it now from your explanation, so making a copy of the engine, it's as using the same engine with the same seed every time, right?
 
@Tin effectively, yes.
 
Tin
i didn't get your before last sentence, because i'm seeding now with a static generator CPairNode::m_engine and using it as a reference in the struct
 
@Tin Out of curiosity, are those thread safe?
 
Tin
so, each randGen is seeded every time from the same CPairNode::m_engine, right?
 
@Tin no... Your randGen objecs are all using the CPairNode::m_engine itself instead of making copies. They don't get "seeded", because they aren't making copies anymore.
 
sbi
7:50 PM
Oh, and did you all notice that money is much more important for men, than for women? At least, that's the case in Wisconsin. I suppose being a hillbilly is quite an expensive way of life.
 
Tin
@MooingDuck, ah ok, so the term seeding refers to each time we initialize the engine, right? sorry for the confusion, indeed i was referring to the fact the all randGen objects use the same engine
@Collin, good question, i'm not sure
 
sbi
(╯°□°)╯︵ 69
( ._.) 69
 
sbi
(╯°益°)╯︵ 69
ヽ(o'皿′o)ノ 69
Damn, that thing can't be upturned!
 
@Tin yeah
 
Tin
7:53 PM
@MooingDuck, if i run the code many times on parallel, the generated random numbers are expected to be different between runs, right?
 
@Tin "many times on parallel"? You mean multithreaded?
 
Tin
@MooingDuck, in the sense, calling each executable many times, each after the other
 
@Tin oh, yeah. Yes.
And for the cluster/jobs, each will have it's own static CPairNode::m_engine member, so yes.
@Tin you might have a problem if two begin on the same machine during the same second, you'd have to check the spec/implementation to be sure. But I think even that is safe.
 
Tin
@MooingDuck, i was thinking also on the std::random_device
@MooingDuck, i hope, they're safe :-)
 
@Tin yeah, I don't know if std::random_device will be unique on the same machine at the same second or not. I think it is, but I'm not positive.
 
8:00 PM
@MooingDuck I haven't dug into the standard, but cppreference is not clear about what random_device should do if the machine doesn't have a source of non-deterministic values
 
Found it: "It is implementation-defined how these values are generated."
 
doh
"return 5;"
 
@Collin :(
 
Tin
@MooingDuck, what does implementation-defined means exactly?
 
@Tin the compiler (gcc/msvc) gets to decide the details.
 
Tin
8:02 PM
@MooingDuck so, the randomness is not really guaranteed if the jobs begin to run exactly at the same time
 
sbi
On my quest for a specific bureaucratic document (which I didn't find) I found an old printout of a paper (2^6 pages) by some Alexander Stepanov and some Meng Lee, titled The Standard Template Library. It's got "October, 31, 1995" printed on the cover, and judging from the yellowish color of the paper, I must have printed only two or three years later. (I think I first learned of a thing called "STL" in the 2nd half of the 90s, as being the thing that delayed the standardization.)
 
perhaps time-seeds are still a decent way to go
 
@Tin not guaranteed, check your implementation. I'm checking MSVC, but I can't find anything there either
@Collin some take PID and others into account for better uniqueness
 
@Tin That's the thing, the standard makes no guarantees at all about the randomness of random_device, started at the same time or otherwise
 
Tin
@Collin, so, i should replace std::random_device?
 
sbi
8:03 PM
It's an interesting historical document. No doubt it's the predecessor of the book of the same title. And it's got all those tables in it ("Random Accesss Iterator Requirements") that we now find in the standard.
 
Tin
@MooingDuck, my tests are on MSVC10, but need to run the code on gcc
 
@Tin Check with your implementation, it might be reading from /dev/random, which I think does give you non-deterministic numbers each time
oh you're not on linux
 
Tin
i'm on windows for debugging, but will run the code on linux
 
@Tin I'd actually stick with std::random_device (until you get more information), since I don't know a standard way to seed with better guarantees.
 
Tin
i did something like: cat /dev/random but it's returning some strange characters
 
8:05 PM
In Unix-like operating systems, /dev/random is a special file that serves as a random number generator or as a pseudorandom number generator. It allows access to environmental noise collected from device drivers and other sources. Not all operating systems implement the same semantics for /dev/random. Linux was the first operating system to implement a true random number generator in this way. Linux Random number generation from kernel space was implemented for the first time for Linux in 1994 by Theodore Ts'o. The implementation uses secure hashes rather than ciphers, as required to avoi...
@Tin Yeah, they're random :-D
it doesn't just return ASCII, it's returning random bits
 
Tin
so, how could I find it out?
@MooingDuck, thanks for the suggestion :-)
 
release notes maybe for your compiler? Probably have to look at the implementation itself for GCC
they might not even document the internals like that
 
Tin
mmm, ok, i will then stick as @MooingDuck suggested to the random_device
 
@Tin It's probably fine, if you start to see runs that are exactly the same, then you'll know to do something else
 
@Collin do a bunch of runs the same second. If they're all different, you're fine. Otherwise, add in the PID or something
 
Tin
8:08 PM
i was wondering how to people do unit tests for applications that use random numbers?
 
@Tin seed(0)
@Tin or just keep track of "acceptable values"
 
Seems /dev/random, fallback to mersenne twister
 
Tin
@MooingDuck, how do i get the PID for instace?
@rubenvb, thanks for the link!
 
@Tin different by OS. :(
I can't find MSVC's details on their site, and I'm currently on 2008, so I don't have source atm.
 
Tin
@MooingDuck, for linux, do you know how it would be?
 
Tin
thanks guys!
 
@Collin I wonder what the 2/3 signifies. There's no 4.
 
Tin
what do you think about this seeding?
unsigned int seedNum;
struct timeval TV;
unsigned int curTime;

gettimeofday(&TV, NULL);
curTime = (unsigned int) TV.tv_usec;
seedNum = (unsigned int) time(NULL) + curTime + getpid() + getDevRandom();
 
8:13 PM
@MooingDuck They're different sections of the manual.. I think 2 is the Linux guide, 3 is the POSIX?
A man page (short for manual page) is online software documentation, serving as content for the man system, for an entity typically encountered in Unix or a Unix-like operating system. Such entities include computer programs (including library and system calls), formal standards and conventions, and even abstract concepts. A user may invoke a man page by issuing the man command. Usage To read a manual page for a Unix command, one can use man at a shell prompt: for example, "man ftp". In order to simplify navigation through the output, man generally uses the less terminal pager. ...
 
Tin
where getDevRandom() reads from /dev/urandom
 
there is is
 
@Collin linux has a manual? Or just an accumulation of man pages?
 
@MooingDuck The accumulation of man pages is the manual
 
sbi
What I always wanted to know, but never dared to ask: Are there Woman Pages, too?
 
8:14 PM
There's a documentation folder in the kernel sources which is surprisingly useful if you're writing a kernel module
but it's just text files with what are essentially scratch notes
Unfortunately, many man pages have woefully small example sections
@sbi: $ woman cat
bash: woman: command not found...
 
@Xaade Zing. Also, was that a Neil Butterworth a.k.a. unapersson reference?
 
sbi
@Collin I knew it! Kernighan and Richie were machos!
 
@sbi Sell it? <grin/> of course not!
 
sbi
@sehe I am doing something much better: am leafing through the historical document, while slowly killing a pretty decent pinot blanc.
 
@sbi Damn do I need your classyness
 
8:21 PM
@Collin TLDP is vast. Also, RFC's, HOWTOs, GUIDES, in kernel tree documentation etc.
@Collin depends wholly on the man page
 
sbi
@Collin You need what?
 
@Collin I'm sure I've seen a killer version like that in a motd/fortune item. But I don't remember quite how it went
 
Classy: adjective; Stylish and sophisticated.
Classiness: Elegance is the attribute of being unusually effective and simple. It is frequently used as a standard of tastefulness, particularly in the areas of visual design and decoration. Elegant things exhibit refined and dignified propriety.
 
@sbi Gee. I think it worked! Thank you, big one.
 
Tin
@Collin, @MooingDuck, would it make sense to do something like: unsigned int seedNum = std::random_device() + getpid(); as a parameter to the engine?
 
sbi
8:24 PM
@Collin Oh you are referring to classiness. :)
Well, a spillchucker is a pretty good first step towards classiness. :)
 
@sbi Screw spelling
 
Tin
or do you see any reason, if it would be weird?
 
sbi
@Collin I'm a man of principles, and as such I only ever screw women. Preferably of my age.
@sehe It only works if everyone is doing it.
 
Now, thankfully, my sysadmin screw up of the year hasn't quite taken so much time as I feared it might, so I'm going to do the same here: s/pinot blanc/hot tea/ (it's kinda cold here).
Oh, and s/STL doc/I am A Strange Loop/
 
sbi
@sehe Ah. It's cold here, too. Easter was colder than Christmas. (I am living in the northern hemisphere, and I am not making this up!) Still the apartment is warm, and the wine is good. When I was young I would drink back (or green) tea from breakfast until long after dinner. Unfortunately, sometimes in my late 20s I have lost the ability to do that. So now, tea is something I would enjoy for a Sunday breakfast, not at night. :( Wine, OTOH, is good almost any time after noon. :)
And I am reading "Rama Revealed". (I'm on a quest to catch up with the classics I missed out when I grew up on the wrong side of the Iron Curtain.) Well, I will continue to do so, when I can let go of this old document...
 
8:49 PM
@Tin yeah, that's what I was thinking
 
Hi all, I have a gui design inquirer. It's a bit subjective.
Is sorting of a table one of the things you want to push to the backend?
 
In MVC, you let the controller do that.
 
hi guys, I've a question about arrays. int a[2]={1,2} , if I did sizeof(a) in x86 it will give me 8. but what about the variabe a which it's type is an array of two integers ?
 
@AlexDan It is.
 
@LucDanton if I print out the fist element and the array address I get the same result. how can two different types share the same memory address
 
9:03 PM
@ahenderson depends on the limits of the table, but probably
 
@AlexDan Can you clarify (e.g. with code) what you are printing exactly? I think you meant that you print the address of the first element, not the first element itself.
 
@AlexDan the variable a, who's type is int[2], has a sizeof 8, yes.
 
yes @LucDanton
 
@AlexDan the address of a struct/array is equal to the address of it's first member, because that is the first part of the struct/array itself.
For instance: The tallest part of your body happens to be the same as the tallest place of your head. (standing straight and other assumptions obviously)
 
mawning
 
9:06 PM
Your discovery does good to show that address comparison only make sense when done within a type. Two pointers of different types are permitted to hold the same value and yet point to different objects under certain circumstances, and this is one of them.
 
@mooning I'm working with a Qt table.
 
If however you have two pointers of the same type, then you're guaranteed that if they hold the same value they point to the same objects (or are both null). So there you go.
 
@ahenderson (1) there's only one n in my name
 
Mmh I may be forgetting about some cases where the static type doesn't match the dynamic type though.
 
@LucDanton you are, but that loophole doesn't apply to his situation, so whatever
 
9:08 PM
@Mooing Duck you are replying to the wrong person.
 
@daknok_t oops
 
@MooingDuck I would never use that as an excuse to be incorrect.
 
Thank god i was completely lost
 
@ahenderson it doesn't depend on the table, it depends on the number of elements it holds. If it's less than 20, sorting in the frontend should be fine. More though, and you'll want to go to the backend.
 
sbi
> What my 12 YO daughter thinks about the Facebook-Instagram deal. #Instagram #Facebook — Patrick Moorhead
 
9:11 PM
@ahenderson your icon looks similar to Alex's, and the first few letters look similar, didn't notice the switch
 
@LucDanton what about printing the array it self , why does it have the address of the first element. so the variable a will play sometimes as an array of two integers a[2] and in other times as a pointer to the first element ?
 
@sbi facebook is for old people?
 
@AlexDan Can you show me what you mean by 'printing the array itself'? It may very well the case that a pointer to the first element is involved indeed.
 
sbi
@MooingDuck Yeah, I didn't know that either. And I bet my teenage daughter will be quite surprised to be considered old.
I bet it's a first for her.
 
@AlexDan arrays can pretend to be a pointer to the first element if you try to do certain things with it, to be nice. a is always an array.
 
9:14 PM
@sbi oy..
 
std::array ftw.
 
sbi
Whatever, I am planning on leaving the house in 9hrs. Also, that bottle of pinot blanc is gone. (I have no idea...) IOW: What a perfect time to go to bed!
Good night, folks!
 
Bye!
 
@sbi Night!
 
@MooingDuck To be terrifically unhelpful, you mean
 
9:18 PM
@DeadMG I meant the intent, not the results
 
fuck
std::array no move semantics?
arrays in C++, y u suck so hard even after library wrapper
 
@DeadMG it's placed on the stack... how would you want to move that?
 
how do you know my std::array is on the stack? maybe I placed it on the heap
and more relevantly, how about component-wise? y'know, for like, array<unique_ptr<T>, num>, say
 
@DeadMG oh bullocks. You'd have used std::vectorin that case.
 
@DeadMG because it makes no sense to move an array, the only option is to copy it.
 
9:30 PM
@MooingDuck As I already said, perhaps you could move each individual member?
 
@DeadMG you're right, my bad. again
 
Actually std::array does work well in the face of move-only types. Sort of late to the party thanks to bad Internets.
 
@DeadMG wouldn't moveiterators or such work?
 
So it's all moot anyway.
 
I think I'd define the basics of "working well" as "has move constructor and assignment operator"
 
9:35 PM
Blah blah blah you're just using a bad C++11 implementation. std::array is fine.
 
what, do better ones have move constructors for std::array?
that reminds me
 
See paragraph 15 of 12.8.
 
need to insert physics update hook into unit physics change
@LucDanton Don't have the Standard.
 
Then what are you complaining about?
 
that I'm using std::array and it behaves contrary to how I would expect
 
9:38 PM
3 mins ago, by Luc Danton
Blah blah blah you're just using a bad C++11 implementation. std::array is fine.
 
right
but I'm not sure how that's relevant to not having a copy of the Standard on hand
 
You have no right to complain about std::array if you don't even have the specs before you.
That's like complaining about books you have not read. Madness!
 
well, either VS10 isn't conformant to those specs, in which case I can complain about VS, or the specs suck, in which case I can complain about the specs
 
Don't complain about std::array until you know what it does or doesn't.
 
but in both cases, there's still a problem
 
9:41 PM
@DeadMG VS10 was "finalized" long before they had most of C++11. VS11 has the entire library, excluding those that require the still missing language features.
 
> TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [input stack size=5000].
> If you really absolutely need more capacity, you can ask a wizard to enlarge me.
 
@MooingDuck Oh, I know that. It is, of course, still irritating that they never support any version of VS.
 
@DeadMG yeah, that's why I got GCC and Clang.
 
hmmm
I'd move, but the crappyness of GDB is quite legendary
and I'm uncertain of how great their support is for loading MS libraries using MS-specific extensions, like Windows API and DirectX
 
@DeadMG Yeah, and making Visual Studio integrate with anything is a lost cause
@DeadMG never tried
 
9:44 PM
What about LLDB?
 
me neither
but since my whole project renders with DirectX, it'd be hard if you can't use it with Clang on Windows :P
plus, I've heard that Clang's x64 exception handling is very broken
 
The textregion used for SO chat input needs to shrink it's width when I make my window smaller automatically :/
hmm, I can't even shrink the width manually
I don't need to see the submit button anyway
 
@daknok_t Didn't even realize it existed.
 
@DeadMG It only works well on OS X, AFAIK.
 
out for me, then :P
 
9:48 PM
It'll suck immensely on Windows. Okay, the text before the edit was awkward…
 
well this is super strange
I edited a question whose title was "Java programming homework help"
then the site told me I couldn't use "help" in the title
 
xD
Insert a null character somewhere in between. :P
 
TeX Y U NO MEMORY.
 
@CatPlusPlus I take it you're no wizard then. That's disappointing.
 
I'm enlarging it, but it's resisting. Damn save throws.
2
 
9:51 PM
I don't see why this should not be starred without context.
 
@daknok_t That's not the strange.
the strange is that he managed to ask it in the first place with "help" in the title
 
Ah-ha! Gotcha. I forgot an argument to my own macro.
Embarrassing.
 
@DeadMG I know, hence the emoticon.
 
@LucDanton : I've the same problem with functions and functions pointer. If I've a function int fun(){return 1;} I can call it using (*fun)() or just fun() so if *fun and fun are the same. so who's the function and who's it pointer ?
 
@AlexDan Function pointers should be burned at the stake.
however, more directly, de-referencing a function pointer has no effect- that is, *fun == fun
and therefore, directly, *******************fun == fun
 
9:57 PM
@AlexDan fun is the name of the function. The pointer appears when using * (to be immediately be consumed by said *). By the way this is a very quirky part of C and C++, it's not worth fussing about.
 
@AlexDan fun is a pointer, *fun is a function. They aren't the same. (Don't think about it, you'll break your brain)
 
@MooingDuck (*fun)() involves a function pointer but no variable.
 
@LucDanton I realized, and fixed :/
 
Well, no. fun is not a variable, much less a pointer.
 

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